Anyone remember my racism issue?(30 Posts)
It I feel still hasn't been resolved satisfactorily. In fact it is being ignored basically because the woman 'didn't mean to cause offense'. Her defence was that the word she used is ok as it is a short form of a country, she uses it to friends from that country (who apparently call her whitey!!). I actually have a copy of her email detailing this. But she also ranted about Muslims and said things like 'don't want to smell like a (insert racist term which no one I know has used since the early 80s when people were educated about racism)
It's rather a long story but it has all been turned around and I feel I am being made a scapegoat. I have received a copy of the investigation and it exonerates her but says I am in trouble for breech of confidentiality. The one breech that is actually true - which I admitted to and was basically me checking a fact on our HR system and relaying it to the person in question sitting next to me - it was me being stupid basically and not realising this person would take offence (which was stupid of me as she IMO has a personality disorder and randomly takes offence at the slightest thing). Anyway she is saying I have looked up other things, things that I am not even sure can be looked at on the system and that I have looked up the medical records of children I know. I know no children who actually would have records within our specialised part of the healthcare system.
My boss has also done a number on me. She is saying that I am just as offensive, saying I wouldn't shop in Asda, saying that I have said I don't have to work (I don't, I choose to though) and saying that I requested she not divulge the fact that I was pregnant to the racist lady or the unbalanced lady and this put her in a difficult position. She also is saying that I tried to make out we were better friends than we were??????? Not sure where she got this from, I only socialised twice with her outside work, both time with unbalanced lady and the only time we have been alone together she met me for lunch and then dragged me round debenhams as she wanted to buy same make up as me ( I found it all pretty odd and uncomfortable).
Now I do not shop in Asda, I prefer to buy ethically sourced food from farm shops or supermarkets that treat their customers, staff and suppliers better than Walmart or Tesco. I do not have to work, it's a fact and was never said in a braggy way and I can't understand how me not having to work would offend anyone. As for her not divulging my pregnancy - I told her when I was 8 weeks pregnant and didn't want anyone to know as with past pregnancies have had horrendously high nuchal fold results and was going to have the tests at fmc in London before even telling family - now I thought it was good manners to tell my boss as was feeling sick constantly and would have to have time off to go and have the tests. Unbalanced lady also used to live in the same small village as me and I know from personal details she has told me abut people in the village that my news would not have stayed private.
There is more to the story but I don't want to bore you all.
Anyway, I have been called to a meeting to go over the outcome of the investigation and I really do not know what to do, this is really stressful for me and my answers to all of the allegations I feel have been completely ignored.
So I want to resign, I can't countenance going back into such an environment but am on maternity leave, should I wait till end of maternity leave to do so. I you'd rather never have contact with anyone or go to this meeting to be completely honest as I really do feel as I expected that the racism would be brushed under the carpet totally.
Wow sorry what an essay.
Have been through comparable shit although with regard to 'ordinary' bullying rather than any racist stuff. Zero point fighting. As soon as you make a complaint as an NHS employee you are trouble. What they focus on is that in making a complaint, you are waving a flag to say that a relationship has broken down. In the logical, fair and rational world you'd think that that would result in some kind of discipline or imposed change upon the transgressor - no, in the NHS it's the person who raised the complaint who has to go.
It sucks, badly, and many careers are destroyed in this exact way.
Your options are to resign, or request redeployment elsewhere. And use the EAP to talk through your frustrations.
I ended up somewhere nicer, I've met lovely people and had great experiences - there are silver linings. Meanwhile the horrible people are left behind still being horrible, just away from you
Most of my allegations were completely ignored too. They keep it as small and simple as possible, for their own convenience.
I would expect given what you've said, that they will say you can't return to the same environment. Have a think about whether there's another department you'd like to move to? Or failing that, how can they help you to prepare to do something else, eg pay for some training? It's worth asking.
Thanks for replying Fab.
I am still in a state of shock as to me saying I won't shop in Asda being compared to using racist language.
How do you let go of the anger though? It's the lies that make me so furious.
I'd like to leave and keep my maternity pay. They are doing admin review at present but I am not holding my breath. I will ask for 2 or 3 days and they will refuse and I will have to resign and pay extra mat pay back.
Would you not take this further, go see a solicitor?
I'm not sure one would do anything. Ranks have been well and truly closed.
op that's what they did with me!
They pushed me off my contract when I was coming back off maternity as I was composing about my manager being shite!
I lost £1200 that they owed me for holidays , had to take it on the chin as I need to stay in work to do further courses.
If you want to fight it you'd need to see an employment solicitor. If you can afford to do so, it might well be an appropriate option for you. I couldn't do it as I was explicitly told that as a nurse there would be huge ramifications for me.
Part of me wants to start a campaign to stamp this out in the nhs.
I apparently went against the equality and diversity rules by complaining to chief exec after racism was brushed under carpet but a senior manager showed my complaint to the person bullying me and that's not an issue!!!
I spoke to a solicitor regarding my occupational maternity pay and holiday pay - plus the fact that they pushed me off contract and I find have grounds to take action.
I was advised though that if I wanted to continue my training to suck it up , which I had too.
If I wasn't doing training I would have gone for constructive dismissal
Just because they see no grounds for racism does not mean that a bloody court wouldn't see it.
My chief executive made a casual remark which was actually racist and the two people that were there that could have taken offence - and did! Were made redundant two days later.
It's disgusting. It's one facet of many which explain why nhs management is so utterly corrupt and useless, and actively supports poor behaviours and practices whilst shafting those with standards and integrity.
I have an interview for a private sector post in a fortnight. Individual staff within the nhs deliver amazing things but as an organisation it's like the bloody Sopranos.
I may actually do that then. The woman has put in writing why the use of the word Paki is appropriate in her mind, it's laughable.
I'm hoping to get a self employed post for a private surgeon too.
I have always worked in banks etched and you would be immediately sent home and then fired for the language I had to put up with.
[madame] get your self to a solicitor !
That is not acceptable
I think I'll have a look on line tomorrow and see if I can get some advice from solicitor to see if I have a case.
I've not lost out on anything yet just my position and reputation with all the lies. I suppose what they offer me when I have to go back will be the deal breaker.
Has been 10 months of hell though!
I would assume that such language renders the 'intention' defence useless - surely it's use is simply Category A offensive to the target, regardless of wanky excuse proffered. So they are actually saying that they're happy to support staff calling colleagues such names as along as it was appropriate in the speaker's thought processes
She used it in conversation on more than one occasion in a derogatory manner, I even asked deranged woman if she thought it offensive, she said yes but then told racist lady I was out to get her. I even asked a v v senior member of staff what to do and they also told her!
Another member of staff also said to me that they were uncomfortable with her language but that has been ignored.
They are trying to say that I was just as offensive, not shopping at Asda, class, not working, although as far as I am aware none if those are do bad there needs legislation to stop their use!
So basically yes, I had no right to pull her up on her racist language because it was not meant to offend. She actually logged a complaint that I had said she was a racist when I actually had just pointed out that what she what she was saying was racism!
But this doesn't make any sense! You must make a rebuttal.
Hopefully flowery will see this soon and advise.
Have your union been supportive? Surely what HR have done isn't acceptable to them and clearly a breach of employment law as well as internal policy eg respect behaviours
I was moved to a different office after the complaint as was pregnant and stressed and the woman who did the initial investigation started bullying me. I did make a complaint and said her bullying made the original investigation a farce and biased and they investigated again and said no. No bullying, no offence meant with racism, turned it all round on me with so many lies, all if which I have answered but still they are sticking to their guns and I am the one who is going to be dealt with for confidentiality issues.
A couple of examples.
Call her Sue, complains about someone else earning more than her, she says she isn't going to take in any more responsibility until she gets a pay rise. I say other lady would get paid more (no idea if she actually does and no idea where Sue got this info, more likely is just in her head) because of length of service. Sue then puts in her allegations that I looked up what level other lady was at. This did not happen and I am not even sure possible on the system we use.
Racist lady has complained that I told her some mandatory training was due, she said felt offended that I brought it to her attention and not her manager. I was given managerial rights on system so was receiving emails detailing outstanding training , told. 7 members of staff their training due, some 3 or so bands above her and none if them had a problem. Only she had a problem with me telling her and it was included in her complaint about me bringing up the racism. Manager is saying she never gave me permission to tell people but I didn't think it necessary to involve her and likely she would have told me to deal with it as things were being escalated on system due to her inactivity on it which us why I was given permissions in first place. She is saying I didn't have the right to go looking up training schedules but the system generated and sent me reminders I didn't look them up.
I really am so stressed about all this, the unfairness and lies is appalling.
I sadly am not a member of a union. Bloody wish I was now.
I have an email from my boss stating that my concerns re racism etc were a result if a misunderstanding or miscommunication. I replied they were not and it was racism. Now I being painted as bad person to minimise everything from their side.
It has seriously made my pregnancy and these first few months with baby overly stressful. I was advised to go on ads even when pregnant and had to see a specialist midwife who dealt with vulnerable stressed mothers to be. All because I pointed out to someone that the language they used was racism!
They are claiming that the use of the word paki wasn't racist but you misunderstood? Jesus Christ. If you can afford it, get to a solicitor. They can't be allowed to get away with this!
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