Any HR people around can talk to me about Managers interfering with Personnel Files?

(23 Posts)
SkullyAndBones Wed 27-Nov-13 16:41:33

While we do have DH's union involved, we have concrete evidence that one of DH's managers has lied, falsified documents and may even have gone as far as tampered with his Personnel File.

I was wondering if someone could give us some advice on how to move forward with it in terms of involving HR.

flowery Wed 27-Nov-13 18:34:55

What do you want to achieve?

Put in a grievance about it would be the obvious next move.

SkullyAndBones Wed 27-Nov-13 19:44:14

he already has a grievance in, this falsifying of documents has been done as part of some arse covering on the managers part during a meeting for the grievance which is now at stage 3 and advancing to stage 4.

she has produced a letter which she is claiming is from his file but we've never seen it before (i keep everything that he receives on file) and totally contradicts a letter we have on file dated for two days later.

due to the look of the letter and some details on it that differ from the one we have, we strongly suspect she has mocked the letter up during the grievance meeting adjournement, but she didnt know about my habit of keeping everything and we have the original letter from 5 months ago that back up what DH is claiming and contradicts what she is insisting.

What we're concerned about is that she may have removed the file copy of the letter we have from his personnel file and replaced it with this blatantly cobbled together falsified letter.

Should we keep it as part of the ongoing grievance or put in a seperate one with regards to these obvious lies?

flowery Thu 28-Nov-13 09:58:36

Stage four?! Good grief that sounds very convoluted. Is stage 4 the appeal stage?

If the process is that onerous I'm not sure I'd put in a new grievance at present. It's all relevant to his current grievance by the sounds of things.

However if he hasn't done so already I would suggest putting in a subject access request under the Data Protection Act to ask for his personnel file and any electronic data held about him. He may decide after he gets that that a new grievance is warranted depending on what he finds.

SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 10:19:53

his place go right up to a stage five when it goes out of the site managements hands and to head office, so this stage 4 is the last chance for his managers boss to respond before the Union start involving outside officials and all sorts.

We're going to put in a request to see the file, but are worried it might tip her off that we're on to what she's done.

Its all a bit urgent because DH is being made redundant in the next couple of weeks and this grievance is about him fighting to be allowed to apply for internal jobs.. which they promised he would be but have now blocked over some stupid absence criteria they've suddenly announced but are refusing to say when exactly it was bought in!

flowery Thu 28-Nov-13 10:50:27

Five stages? Well I congratulate you both for not having lost the will to live by now...!

She's going to have to know your DH is on to what she's done, whether it's through a subject access request or through the grievance where obviously he'll raise it anyway.

SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 10:58:25

its not so bad, there's time frames they have to respond in, so its only taken 3 weeks to get to this point, but this is when it can start to drag!

mariefab Thu 28-Nov-13 14:21:19

An employee a risk of redundancy shouldn't have to fight to be allowed to apply for internal jobs.
In any redundancy process employers should ensure that at risk employees have every opportunity to apply for available internal posts because dismissal should be the last resort.

What exactly does the 'stupid absence criteria' policy say?
Because, given that disabled employees are generally likely to have more absences that non-disabled employees, it's hard to imagine a policy that wouldn't be implicitly discriminatory.

SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 16:15:14

3 periods of sickness in the last 2 years. Dh has 3, but the last time he was off sick was 12 months ago.

He was told back in his last consultation in september after the first round of redundancies that he survived that he would be handed application forms for any jobs that came up on site, but now they're saying due to this criteria that he will not be allowed an interview.

the union are fighting it as it wasn't agreed with or run by them.

The whole thing is a mess which is why what we've uncovered is so important, and it may be pivotal to a lot of people as we've got proof that the management are lying to get people out.

We're now contemplating building a constructive dismissal case for his redundancy appeal as he's held off looking for other work and taking voluntary because they gave him false hope of finding other work on site as he's highly skilled and was told his job was 'not at risk' in his consultation.

mariefab Thu 28-Nov-13 16:42:58

Just to be clear, are you saying that his employer has a policy stating something like...

Any employee who has had 3 periods of sickness in the last 2 years cannot apply for available internal jobs even when at risk of redundancy.

mariefab Thu 28-Nov-13 16:50:12

Just re-read your last sentence.
Don't let him resign.
Constructive unfair dismissal is a great deal more difficult claim to win than 'ordinary' unfair dismissal.

SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 16:54:11

he's not resigning, he'll be there until they push him out the door.

but yes, the policy states that any employee with 3 or more absences in the last two years will not be given interviews for any jobs they apply for.

mariefab Thu 28-Nov-13 17:27:32

FYI constructive dismissal = when you resign in response to your employer's fundamental breach of contract.

Do you have a written copy of the policy?

Has he worked there for 2 (or more) years?

If don't know if it helps or not but we scan every personal document onto a database before filling. They can't be removed from that database once scanned in.

Only our personal secretaries have access to this database, managers can look at paper files but not computer database.

Might be worth seeing if your DHs company do the same thing because the original letter should be on there and the false letter wouldn't be unless the secretary is also involved and then would need questioning?

SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 17:33:03

he's been there over 20yrs.

SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 17:36:12

and no, there is no written copy of the policy, which is why they cannot produce evidence of when it was bought in.

They've given us a date after much pushing, but it contradicts what we were told in a previous meeting by a whole month.

mariefab Thu 28-Nov-13 19:04:30

So, these are 2 unrelated issues?

1. The recent undocumented absence criteria policy.
2. The alledgedly 5 months old 'mocked up' letter about...something else?

SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 19:42:51

no, one has led to the other.

The letter has been produced as 'evidence' during the grievance meeting, supposedly from his personnel file, but this is the first we've seen of it.

mariefab Thu 28-Nov-13 21:19:57

Has the decision to make his job redundant already been made and notice served by his employer?
Is he currently working his (12 weeks?) notice period that will end in a couple of weeks?

SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 22:12:16

its a bit complicated, and i can't really explain without going into too much specific detail.

but yes, sort of.. its been a two stage redundancy, they were told if they got through the first cut that they'd be going in the second... but no-one has outright given them a final date and said 'this is the day you're redundant from'.

what they do have is a final shipment date on the last bits of what they make, which is next week, and the equipment has already begun to be dismantled and removed.

mariefab Thu 28-Nov-13 22:32:40

So, after the last bits have shipped and all the equipment has been dismantled and removed it's anticipated that the employer will then terminate the employment of the relevant employees (including your OH) with immediate effect and pay the required notice in lieu along with redundancy pay and any untaken accrued holiday pay.

Is that right?

SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 22:41:26

i dont know that bit.. nor does Dh, been so much going on and so much swapping, changing and obfuscating we actually have no idea whats happening.

mariefab Fri 29-Nov-13 00:17:51

It certainly sounds that way.

His employer intends to terminate your OH's employment on the grounds of redundancy.

In order for such a dismissal to be fair the employer must take all reasonable steps to avoid the dismissal if possible.
As there are other jobs available, redeploying soon-to-be redundant employees to these available jobs would be a basic reasonable step.

Telling these employees that they would not be allowed to interview for these roles would not be reasonable and would likely render the dismissal unfair (even if they've had more than 3 absences).

Do you anything in writing from the employer describing this 3 absence in 2 years = no interview rule?
If not, I suggest that he write down what he was told about it, by whom and when.
Also, he could write that if an employer has a problem with how much sickness absence an employee has had the proper way to deal with this is the employer's absence management process. This would usually involve informal warnings, written warnings etc.
& by using this absence criteria to deny even an interview for alternative role the employer is effectively dismissing your OH because he has has 3 absences in he last 2 years without following the correct process.
Present a copy of this at hearing 4.

I'd also ask for a copy of the 'mocked up' letter so that he can also present it alongside the one received 2 days later at his next grievance hearing.

Always get as much as you can in writing, even if you have to write it yourself because 'he said she said' is too deniable.

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