Got a q for Miriam Gonzalez Durantez? ×

Any HR people around can talk to me about Managers interfering with Personnel Files?

(23 Posts)
SkullyAndBones Wed 27-Nov-13 16:41:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

flowery Wed 27-Nov-13 18:34:55

What do you want to achieve?

Put in a grievance about it would be the obvious next move.

SkullyAndBones Wed 27-Nov-13 19:44:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

flowery Thu 28-Nov-13 09:58:36

Stage four?! Good grief that sounds very convoluted. Is stage 4 the appeal stage?

If the process is that onerous I'm not sure I'd put in a new grievance at present. It's all relevant to his current grievance by the sounds of things.

However if he hasn't done so already I would suggest putting in a subject access request under the Data Protection Act to ask for his personnel file and any electronic data held about him. He may decide after he gets that that a new grievance is warranted depending on what he finds.

SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 10:19:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

flowery Thu 28-Nov-13 10:50:27

Five stages? Well I congratulate you both for not having lost the will to live by now...!

She's going to have to know your DH is on to what she's done, whether it's through a subject access request or through the grievance where obviously he'll raise it anyway.

SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 10:58:25

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mariefab Thu 28-Nov-13 14:21:19

An employee a risk of redundancy shouldn't have to fight to be allowed to apply for internal jobs.
In any redundancy process employers should ensure that at risk employees have every opportunity to apply for available internal posts because dismissal should be the last resort.

What exactly does the 'stupid absence criteria' policy say?
Because, given that disabled employees are generally likely to have more absences that non-disabled employees, it's hard to imagine a policy that wouldn't be implicitly discriminatory.

SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 16:15:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mariefab Thu 28-Nov-13 16:42:58

Just to be clear, are you saying that his employer has a policy stating something like...

Any employee who has had 3 periods of sickness in the last 2 years cannot apply for available internal jobs even when at risk of redundancy.

mariefab Thu 28-Nov-13 16:50:12

Just re-read your last sentence.
Don't let him resign.
Constructive unfair dismissal is a great deal more difficult claim to win than 'ordinary' unfair dismissal.

SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 16:54:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mariefab Thu 28-Nov-13 17:27:32

FYI constructive dismissal = when you resign in response to your employer's fundamental breach of contract.

Do you have a written copy of the policy?

Has he worked there for 2 (or more) years?

If don't know if it helps or not but we scan every personal document onto a database before filling. They can't be removed from that database once scanned in.

Only our personal secretaries have access to this database, managers can look at paper files but not computer database.

Might be worth seeing if your DHs company do the same thing because the original letter should be on there and the false letter wouldn't be unless the secretary is also involved and then would need questioning?

SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 17:33:03

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SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 17:36:12

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mariefab Thu 28-Nov-13 19:04:30

So, these are 2 unrelated issues?

1. The recent undocumented absence criteria policy.
2. The alledgedly 5 months old 'mocked up' letter about...something else?

SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 19:42:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mariefab Thu 28-Nov-13 21:19:57

Has the decision to make his job redundant already been made and notice served by his employer?
Is he currently working his (12 weeks?) notice period that will end in a couple of weeks?

SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 22:12:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mariefab Thu 28-Nov-13 22:32:40

So, after the last bits have shipped and all the equipment has been dismantled and removed it's anticipated that the employer will then terminate the employment of the relevant employees (including your OH) with immediate effect and pay the required notice in lieu along with redundancy pay and any untaken accrued holiday pay.

Is that right?

SkullyAndBones Thu 28-Nov-13 22:41:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mariefab Fri 29-Nov-13 00:17:51

It certainly sounds that way.

His employer intends to terminate your OH's employment on the grounds of redundancy.

In order for such a dismissal to be fair the employer must take all reasonable steps to avoid the dismissal if possible.
As there are other jobs available, redeploying soon-to-be redundant employees to these available jobs would be a basic reasonable step.

Telling these employees that they would not be allowed to interview for these roles would not be reasonable and would likely render the dismissal unfair (even if they've had more than 3 absences).

Do you anything in writing from the employer describing this 3 absence in 2 years = no interview rule?
If not, I suggest that he write down what he was told about it, by whom and when.
Also, he could write that if an employer has a problem with how much sickness absence an employee has had the proper way to deal with this is the employer's absence management process. This would usually involve informal warnings, written warnings etc.
& by using this absence criteria to deny even an interview for alternative role the employer is effectively dismissing your OH because he has has 3 absences in he last 2 years without following the correct process.
Present a copy of this at hearing 4.

I'd also ask for a copy of the 'mocked up' letter so that he can also present it alongside the one received 2 days later at his next grievance hearing.

Always get as much as you can in writing, even if you have to write it yourself because 'he said she said' is too deniable.

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