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Can employer ignore occupational health report?(33 Posts)
I have an invisible disability, I was burned very badly as a child and the scars on my legs can be very painful when exposed to changes in temperature. I was badly bullied as a teenager because of my scars and since leaving my home town I have worn trousers and not told my colleagues that I have any problems, preferring them to think that I am welded to my car because I am lazy rather than unable to walk.
I am a social worker and was based in a hospital for over three years with no problems. I was moved to a community team in August 2012, initially there was no problem as there was parking but the team was then moved to a city centre location and I had to tell my employer that I would be unable to get to the new location because of my disability.
This issue was complicated by my brother dying the week my team moved. Initially I was signed off by my GP because of the bereavement but my manager is refusing to consider reasonable adjustments to enable me to return to work. I have been seen by Occupational Health Doctor who has recommended I be placed in a specialist social work post in the hospital that is currently filled by an agency worker, I am qualified to do this job, but my manager is insisting that I go back to my post in the building I can't get to after a temporary placement in the hospital to ''get me back into work following my sickness and give me an opportunity to gather more mefical evidence about my condition". I haven't been sick - I could not physically get to my new location and surely the occupational health report and a letter from my GP should be sufficient evidence that my disability xists. My union rep is a lovely person but is out of her depth on this. I put a grievance in in May but this still hasn't been heard. I am being forced out of my job by my manager's refusal to do anything to meet my needs. I am feeling very intimidated by my manager and I can't understand how I can get the extra evidence he wants. Any ideas about what I can do?
Hi All, I wanted to let you know that I put in an employment tribunal claim and asked if it could be heard 'out of time'. My union refused to support me because I had left it more than 3 months before putting in the claim even though my union rep had incorrectly said that every time my manager refused to make reasonable adjustments this would trigger another 3 month window.
Clearly my employer's solicitor took my claim more seriously and I have just settled. Terms are confidential but I now have a secure job that meets my needs. Thanks to everyone who gave me good advice and messages of support when I was going through a very difficult situation.
I second what BerylStreep says. Your manager cannot have your medical information. I get lots of employers asking me for I formation about patients without going through the OH route and even with signed consent I dont give it, in fact I often phone my patients and they are not aware what they have consented to. It is scary.
Thanks Beryl, that's what I thought. I can't understand how or why this situation has happened. All I wanted was a job with a car park. I can live with the pain, I have to. I wanted to keep my disfigurement a secret but they have effectively destroyed my privacy whatever happens now. I wish I had just handed in my notice and signed up with an agency when the change of location was first announced. It would have been so much easier if my employer had a reasonable adjustment policy but HR says every case is different. There should be a procedure though, then at least everybody could be treated the same.
Geekie I won't even try to pretend to understand all the different posts and who is currently covering what, because I am utterly confused!
However, my understanding was that a post can be filled without a competitive process if it is a reasonable adjustment for someone who DDA applies to. It certainly happens in my work (large public sector org). They wouldn't promote though.
Oh well, the news was not as good as I thought. I was told yesterday that I am not covering for the person who is going on maternity leave, I am covering the other post. The agency worker who has covered that post for twenty one months has been told that the post is needed for a disabled worker so that will be my secret out. Also the job the permanent post holder is seconded to has just been advertised. If she gets it I will ask if I can have the vacant post permanently but I can't see them saying yes. If she doesn't get it I will be back to square one because the post I will be covering will be advertised. I can't understand why HR doesn't just take control and sort this out. The law does say that a disabled person can be moved into a suitable vacant post without a competitive interview doesn't it?
I agree with Beryl about your manager overstepping the mark, what is your Union Rep doing about all of this?
Good news, so far.
However, I think your manager is over-stepping the mark. He is not entitled to have the information about your disability. That's what Occupational Health are there for - for you to medically discuss your condition IN CONFIDENCE with them, and as a result of THEIR MEDICAL EXPERTISE, they make a recommendation to your management, which he ignores at his peril. It is not up to your manager to be making assessments of your condition, or indeed writing to your GP suggesting referrals.
Similarly, the only people able to make a definitive decision about whether DDA applies (Equality Act, but YKWIM) are the courts, not your manager.
I suggest that you contact Occ Health and clarify what permissions you have provided about what information can be shared with your manager.
Hi All, Well HR appear to have taken this seriously. The good news is that I have had an email from my manager to say that I can be placed in the post that was originally suggested last October, it is only temporary but the substantive post holder is going on maternity leave in November so at least I will have a bit of security. My manager is still saying that despite having two occupational health reports and a letter and a report from my GP "we are still unable to independently medically substantiate your disability or offer clear DDA guidance. In response to this I intend to meet with the examining doctor to seek further clarification". He also intends to write to my GP to ask him to refer me to a burns specialist. He has also made it very clear that this is a temporary measure.
And Nerfmother, thanks for the link to the equality website, I have had a look and it is really useful.
I will update when I hear back from HR.
This from their website and is factual not subjective. Chapter 3 is all about reasonable adjustments, when the duty arises etc. it doesn't look like it matters about when you told them?
Please have a look its really useful.
I'm not trying to be unkind or suggest you have done anything wrong, but if you didn't declare a disability at the time ( and yes I know people can become disabled but that's not the case here) does it alleviate them of any responsibility?
It's the equalities act now not the dda - the ehrc website is very good and also has a helpline (official body)
If it really comes to it, and they deem a disabled parking space as a reasonable adjustment, you could lie to your colleagues about the nature of your mobility issues - something vague like 'dodgy ankle' could cover it without going into any detail.
I'm so sorry to hear that you were bullied about this in the past - it obviously hurt you very much.
Hope this is resolved quickly for you, seems Tgey are getting caught up in disabled parking rather than tge distance
Hi All, I sent an email to HR and the matter has been passed to employee relations. GP has written a very supportive letter so fingerscrossed. Surely they will find a location I can get to...
I couldn't face going into the meeting today in the end, I was too upset so my union rep went in on my behalf. She emailed me with an update.
He has advised that in order to provide you with reasonable adjustments HR have indicated that he needs further evidence to support your disability claim. This is the same process for every person who applies for adjustments under the DDA.
He is also planning to arrange a case conference with occupational health for them to provide their professional understanding of your condition and the impact of this on your ability to work, as the reports have not clarified the issues in relation to reasons for your limited mobility.
I have been referred to Occ health twice and Doc has recommended reasonable adjustments. My GP has also confirmed that on some days my mobility is reduced to as little as 20 yards. Is it normal for them to insist on a case conference with Occ health doctor.
Also is it normal for HR departments to insist on more evidence. I would have thought that Occ Health know what is required.
I don't think that any of the managers have any idea and other is no policy covering reasonable adjustment. Because I wanted to keep my privacy I didn't tell my line manager I went to one of the service managers and told her I need a location with parking. She looked into it, said all general social work teams were being located to City Centre and asked if I would consider a specialist hospital post. I said I would be delighted. I am qualified for a specialist post and have over three years hospital experience. That manager said the only barrier was that it was a Trust post but she would make enquiries. This was before my team moved, I was in work but the move date was set for w/b 29 October. On 26/10 my brother was diagnosed with leukaemia, he was put on life support on 28/10 and died on 31/10. By 17/11 the post I thought I could have had been put out for expressions of interest and filled. I was interviewed but I think I was still in shock and was in the room for less than ten minutes. There were only two expressions of interest and the other candidate got it, the other post is still being covered by an agency worker.
I was referred to Oc health in Dec and she said I was likely to be covered and made recommendations. The original service manager I had approached passed me to the service manager who oversees the team I am currently in. In May just after I put in my grievance he met with me and said I could cover one of the posts on a temporary basis but he wanted more information about my condition and asked that I be referred back to Oc health. I then got an email to say I couldn't cover the specialist post because it was a Trust post. I asked him to ask if they would object to me being placed in it and he said no so I asked the HR at the trust who said it is not a trust post - it is up to the Council.
I can't understand why none of the managers will ask the Trust about the post. If they get the same answer as me there isn't a problem, butif my manager says today that I can have disabled parking in the City Centre I am just going to resign. My rep thinks disabled parking is a reasonable adjustment and I shouldn't worry about hiding my condition but she doesn't live in my body.
Hi op, I'm so sorry that you are going tgrough this, frankly your manager sounds like a knob!
I believe that yes recommendations do not have to be actioned. Although why reasonable adjustments would not be put into place when it is likely you are covered is not wise. There are a few reasons he could be doing this ranging from not understanding the implications to you or his employer to him having just decided you don't need one.
I'm glad you've gone to HR. I am shocked he closed your case and hasn't sorted out your pay. I hope this is resolved quickly for you now.
I never thought of going to HR before, they were great when I contacted them to see where grievance was up to and chasing up why
I was still on reduced pay.
I asked HR if we have a reasonable adjustments policy and they said no because every case is different. The Trust has one and it would have made things so much easier. I feel like I am in a battle when I should be being supported. Do you think that I could ask HR to sort out how the absence should be recorded and get them to look at my leave? It seems crazy that I had extra days entitlement because I had not been off sick for a full three year period and now if I do need to look for another job my sick record looks awful.
Hi All, I have contacted HR and they were told that my grievance was resolved informally two days after it was logged. I have been told to submit another grievance that will be investigated by a different manager. HR were not told that I started back at work which was why I was still on reduced pay - they are rectifying that.
One of the things I asked in my grievance was for my absence to be recorded as disability related not sick leave. My brother died on 31st October and GP signed me off stating bereavement as reason. I told my team leader that I wasn't sick and that I didn't want to ask my doctor for sick notes but she said that I needed sick notes or I could be dismissed. My doctor wrote 'disability issues' on the note he gave me in January. In February I didn't get a sick note in the hope that this would galvanise them into action about reasonable adjustment. I told my rep what I was doing and she sent me an email saying my condition might be covered by DDA but legally I needed a sick note. In the three and a half years I worked for them before this started I had two days off sick. I was proud of my record and I also need my leave to be sorted out.
We are having a meeting tomorrow and I am very nervous. I'd feel better if my rep was a bit more positive about my chances of the doctor's recommendations about my being placed in a hospital post being acted on, she thinks they will offer me disabled parking. Fingers crossed.
If you are covered by the DA then it is classes as a protected characteristic and they are on very shakey ground indeed and should be very pro active in sorting this out for you, as from what you have said you would have a strong case at ET.
Your manager should not be dealing with the grievance at all, as it is essentially against them and should have been passed to an independent manager to conduct a thorough investigation. Please check your staff handbook for details of this procedure as failure to follow procedure set out could again at an ET be in your favour.
I am very glad you have been speaking to the union about this, and please please get HR as involved as you can, if they are any good they should be working hard to resolve this for you.
Hi Everyone, Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I haven't posted on a forum before so I hope that it is okay to send a group response. I appreciate everything that you have all written.
I have sent two emails to my union rep, one with lots of detail the second a much shorter version. I have let her know that I will go all the way to a tribunal if I have to and asked if it is appropriate for her to get a legal person to look at the case at this point.
I have also done a letter to HR asking that my grievance be passed to another manager since my current manager does not appear to have any idea what he should be doing.
I have also asked my union rep if she has heard of any other case where a person has been referred to Occupational Health on two occasions to be examined and been asked to provide a letter from a GP all of which stated clearly that I have a disability that is "likely to be covered by the disability discrimination provision of the Equality Act 2010".
I will post any outcome but in the meantime thanks for responding and wish me luck!
Is there another manager you can approach and explain how this manager is making you feel.
I sorry you are being put through this.
It isn't pride Waikikamookau it is fear. I was bullied because of my scars - kids can be cruel but adults can be even worse. I decided over twenty years ago to conceal my condition and I have not been bullied since. I managed my condition without anybody knowing until I was moved to a different location. I then had to disclose my condition to my manager and look at how he is behaving. I am sure that the doctor's opinion would be enough for anybody else but he is demanding that I provide more evidence and seems to be really angry with me. I only met him for the first time face to face in May so there is no reason for him to carry on in this way.
Have you been in contact with your HR dept? It's very concerning that you raised a grievence in May with no further investigation.
op you might have to swallow your pride and get a blue badge. your colleagues don't need to know why
Hi Antoinette, I know where your mum is coming from. It is so frustrating that this issue could be sorted so easily without sacrificing my privacy. I am going to have to fight this because I have no choice.
Maybe your mum could speak to EHRC and get advice, I found them really helpful. My problem is that my manager just won't listen.
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