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Timesheets: how do you manage?(48 Posts)
I am a regular poster but have namechanged out of embarrassment. I am a lawyer, and I've done well enough to get to partnership but the one thing that I have always struggled with is time recording. Not targets - I have plenty of work to do - but actually getting it all entered on the system.
For years I've not kept good notes of what I am doing and build up a backlog of a week or more and then have to spend whole days of my weekends or late into an evening (once up to 6am) piecing together my time entries from emails and files and memory. (NB I am not guessing or inventing the time or in any way defrauding clients) It's a guilty secret I've always managed to hide, or allowances have been made because the rest of my work has been good, but I am getting to the stage where I hate it so much I am basically phobic and am contemplating giving up private practice.
It's exacerbated by the fact that my biggest client has very strict rules that mean that I have to do an individual entry for each task (i.e. reading an email and responding to an email are separate tasks) so each day can involve 60 or 70 entries, a lot of which are only for 6 minutes. Each entry involves a detailed narrative and the assignment of a minium of four different variable codes from drop down menus.
So many of my colleagues seem to get the time recorded without any effort at all. Can anyone offer any advice?
BeckAndCall of course I would not say something to you that I knew to be incorrect. Non-complicance with the regulator's rules of conduct is misconduct, simple as that. Let's just agree to differ, shall we?
Eurochick, thanks. Your #2 is basically what I do but I tend to leave it a week rather than a day - problem is that at the end of the day I just want to get home and am too willing to let the timesheets slide. I think maybe I need to adopt a policy of getting in early in the morning and doing the one from the day before first thing, to the absolute exclusion of anything else.
My firm is like Eurochick's - policy of not allowing secretaries to enter the time. Mine does help on occasion though - partners can bend the rules a bit as long as the associates don't find out
I'm a lawyer too. On mat keave and not going back as pregnant with DC2. I will not miss the fucking time recording
I forced myself to do it daily. Even if I was at work til 1:00am, I stayed til 1:30am to do the time recording. Was a ball ache but much easier in the long run
What time recording g system are you using? We used carpe diem. I basically do what euro chick does but some of my colleagues used the smarTimers very effectively. You have the bar open and as soon as someone calls you etc, you just click on the new timer. Old one stops and new one starts. Do you have a system like that and could you try?
My firm was very, very hot on time recording - partners included and I know that partner remuneration (either the bonus bit or the actual drawings for the equity) did factor in time recording for the team and also that of the partners. Over 10% of missing time for more than 3 weeks and it was no bonus (was shit anyway) for fee earners. Not sure of the exact "punishment" for partners but it did impact them tpp financially.
I think loads of firms are going to start going the same way and the partners who really struggled at my old place were the ones who didnt have a good system in place.
Sorry to be all doom and gloom - I am very sympathetic as I fucking hated it too. Loved being on secondment and just whacking the time down on one file
Gobbo (and others who said similar) your sympathy means a lot. It's just not the done thing in RL to admit struggling with it, so I did hope to find a few kindred spirits on here. I don't have DC yet but am considering getting pg just to get some respite from the time recording!
Though I was round at my friend's the other day and she said "Just let me enter some time" and sat down at her computer - "oh", I said, "are you doing some consultancy work while on maternity leave? " She said no, she was entering into a spreadsheet the times that her baby was sleeping and feeding. Perhaps you too could try baby timesheets if you get withdrawal symptoms (and 2 mins' sleep counts for 6!)
We use a system called Timebuilder which is quite new but seems to have been developed by people who have no idea how lawyers actually work. From a business perspective it's interesting to see that it was obviously such an issue at your firm that drastic measures were taken to address it; suggests that I am far from alone. If only there were another way of turning our work into money.
flossy - not sure what area you're in but I'm employment. It was mixed contentious and non contentious
I think time recording is tons easier if your project based ( so projects/corporate etc) where you're just really eorking on one or two deals. Is a fucking nightmare when you have loads of matters
I was a senior associate so had a lot of supervising to do which meant loads of interruptions. I was very strict though and always asked for the matter number and put that time diwn as you lose shit loads on that type if thing
It was such a happy day to go on mat leave [grins]. I'm
Sure the person doing the spreadsheets is lovely but sounds totally weird
I think some friends of mine who are IT consultants use Harvest. You definitely need to get technology working for you on this (although Harvest is not free).
It does sound tedious beyond belief to have to be recording your time in such immense detail, although I appreciate that it's a professional responsibility. Presumably when you get interrupted it's reasonable to say 'hang on, need to press pause on the timer' or whatever, since everyone must be in the same boat at work? (Obviously not when answering the phone to a client).
Could you at least record oral notes as the day progresses? It sounds a bit mad but I would be tempted to use something like Voxer, which will allow you to record a 'note to self', although would keep it strictly to 'Client A, 10 min phone call' (I do mean literally "Client A", not the client's name and nothing that could be compromising). Equally there are lots of dictation apps for phones that don't store the content in the Cloud where you wouldn't have to be quite so circumspect.
I'm at a US firm and for the fee earners Stateside there is a system where if you have x% of time entries missing, they withhold your pay! They were swiftly told they couldn't do that for the London office but we are all pretty decent about recording it regularly anyway. But generally, I think it is a widespread problem. We get monthly firm-wide nags before the billing round to make sure everything is entered. It was the same at my last firm.
I think at partner level the important motivating factor is that if the client isn't getting billed because time isn't in the system, you are the ones losing out - the associates will still get paid!
I'm a lawyer and use harvest which is find perfect for my needs, so highly recommend it. It's extremely simple and you don't need to muck about remembering file codes or anything. Then you can export the time into excel. If remembering file codes is a problem then get a list of the ones you use most often printed out so you're not put off recording the time because you don't remember the code.
If I'm short of time I put a half entry in so at least I remember what I did and can fill out the details when I bill.
I don't know a single self employed lawyer or sole practitioner who has a problem with time recording, for obvious reasons.
Oh and routine monthly billing of evy matter so you can only ever be a few weeks out of date might help. Although I appreciate you may not always be in control of that.
Cheers, Gobbolino - flattered by your assessment that I'm weird. It's a necessity where I work - I can work on up o 20 matters a day - there is no way I can piece my time sheet together at the end of the day, never mind the week. If you only have one project at the time then obviously it's easier.
I'm a lawyer who works for lots of individual clients, so like Gobbolino, I find it only works if I do it as I go along. I tend to click the onscreen smart timer as soon as I start a job / phonecall / meeting and capture it that way. Occasionally I forget and have to go back and enter the time manually, but it basically works for me. I put the timeline narrative in at the same time, but my clients are not as demanding on detail as yours are by the sound of it.
riksti - I'm talking about the friend with the baby who was entering time
Here us the excerpt from *flossy's" post: Though I was round at my friend's the other day and she said "Just let me enter some time" and sat down at her computer - "oh", I said, "are you doing some consultancy work while on maternity leave? " She said no, she was entering into a spreadsheet the times that her baby was sleeping and feeding. Perhaps you too could try baby timesheets if you get withdrawal symptoms (and 2 mins' sleep counts for 6
I think that's quite odd. Im not referring to you. Not sure on what basis you think I am. If I was, I would reference in your username
Tribpot, the voice memo idea is an interesting one, thanks!
I do mine as I go along - time sheet is always open, and posted to clients at the end of the day. If I leave it I lose too much time.
My supervising partner did just what you describe, not carefully recording and then filling in a load of guesstimate time sheets at the end of each week or two. Naturally he was generous in his guess work and his recorded hours always totted up to target. Then when matters went overbudget and WIP had to be culled, everyone's time would be culled equally - my laboriously recorded accurate time alongside his guesstimate. Also, we often gave costs updates that were way out because the parter hadn't input his WIP. I completely hated it; it was selfish and was one of my main reasons for leaving.
Not a lawyer, but we do have to record time. I usually do it daily, and if for some reason I don't have access to my PC at the end of the day, I write notes on a bit of paper and fill it in the next day. There's no way I would remember at the end of the week. Even daily, some of it is a reasonable guess, rather than entirely accurate recording, not that I'm admitting that to my manager.
Keeping a running total, while a pain, must make it easier in the long run, surely? You just have to make a habit of it, and once it is a habit, you won't need to think about it too hard. It's those first couple of months or so before it is habitual which is hard.
What you need is a dictaphone, leave it beside you, at the start of a task or end just hit record and eg 9.06 - email to client re tuesday meeting - charge x units.
Then its only typing it up, or asking a second to do it. Honestly its so easy like this.
I think its a fair question.. Im surprised more firms dont give more help on time recording. Im not a lawyer but I do have to record time in small sections.
As with most things, once youve got into a backlog, it can seem overwhelming, but its really not.
My suggestion is to start off with the tips below TOMORROW so that your time from TOMORROW is recorded; you can work out the backlog as you go along.
Honestly, once you start, you will feel so much better, and you are definitely not alone!
If you are PC literate, use a basic Excel spreadsheet. If youre not, use a large ruled noted book with one page per day and make basic columns. You can put more columns if you want, but 1 5 are probably the most useful:
Column 1: Date
Column 2: Start time
Column 3: End Time
Column 4: Client / Colleague
Column 5: Activity Description
Column 6: Billed (ie yes / no)
TOP TIP 1: Get a stop watch with start / stop and the time and date. Start to use it ALL THE TIME. It will soon become a habit even if feels weird at first. Press Start when you open an email, and stop when you stop (durr!).. The write down in the book / spreadsheet IMMEDIATELY. If you get interrupted, tell the person hang on, let me just write this down, or make a note in the book. Make it part of the process.
TOP TIP 2: Record all your time spent and then decide LATER if /what should be billed. Dont waste time figuring out in advance what is billable. Just write enough in the activity column to work it out later, eg, if you are instructing an expert, write that down and assess later if its re-billable to the client. If you need to, write down when you started to speak to a colleague, when you finished speaking to your colleague, even when you went to loo if it helps! I find it helps to cross it off the log when its been invoiced.
TOP TIP 3: To really speed things up if you need to, work out a list of short codes if it helps, or use an existing one. ACK LTR acknowledge letter; RD & Rsp Email read and respond to email; PT files photocopy files etc. Otherwise just scrawl works for me.
There are formulas to work out your minutes into hours; hence the spreadsheet function is more efficient when you get used it to it, but the notebook is pretty foolproof and has the benefit of being a physical reminder on your desk.
. Just start from tomorrow and take control its easy, dont be overwhelmed. GOOD LUCK! x
bbcessex thank you so much for your supportive post. Your advice about dealing with the future ones making the backlog less daunting was great. I have managed a week of daily posting using a combo of the tips on here and am feeling much more positive.
My tip would be if you do keep a written record as you go along, use a particular colour of paper to do it - that way you can always find it quickly among all the papers on your desk.
What system do you use? Our time recording system has 2 options - manual entries and clocks. You input the file reference (only have to do this at say the start of the week - it "remembers" the files that you work on most often and has them in a list) so when the phone rings and its X client, you click on their clock when you pick up the phone, click on it again when you put the phone down and just type in a short narrative - obviously do a file note if it warrants it. Similarly if you've opened a clock and you have to stop working on the case because someone comes into your office whatever, you just click on the clock and it stops recording the time. When you start again, you can re-click the clock. When you close your timesheet in the evening, it automatically converts the clock time into units - thats how I and most of my colleagues deal with the ad-hoc entries that crop up when you're dealing with other things in the day.
For the "normal" tasks - letters, emails etc, once you're in the habit, it just becomes routine. Dictate letter, submit to secretary, record a unit. Send email / read email - drop email in specific matter file on system, record time. Pull out file to consider papers, do the work, record time, put file back in cabinet etc. If you consider the time recording as part of the actual task, it becomes slightly less onerous.
I'm an accountant rather than a lawyer, but we also work in a very similar way. I try to record as I go, but invariably have insufficient time recorded at the end of the day, in which case I review my mailboxes as a reminder, and also my calendar. I try not to leave it, as it doesn't get easier to remember what you were doing!
We use a system called Practice Engine. It has a built in timer (stop watch icon) which some people use, I don't like it because if I get distracted (e.g. By a phone call) I forget to stop the timer, but some of my colleagues use it successfully.
I have an A5 diary and I write down the time I spend on stuff at the end of the day. Often my time notes are more detailed in the morning as i get bombed out doing several things at once.
I have to record time once a week, so it's easy to be disciplined about that.
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