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Money!

(11 Posts)
filsfieryfurnace Tue 15-Nov-16 11:06:01

Hello Folks. My mum is very frail and about to undergo a financial assessment with regard to her care needs. My parents aren't rich - but they have maybe £35k in cash and savings accounts etc. it's amazing how the cash stacks up when you are bed ridden..!

My dad has decided he wants to give much of this money away before the assessment takes place (next month). i've told him that the assessors will look through his bank statements etc. He says 'i want to give your brother £10k for IVF. that seems like something i should have done months ago, so surely i will not be penalised for that'.

what does mumsnet think? if he gives away some or much of this cash, in targeted form (invoices attached etc) is that OK? or are the assessors going to come down on him?

CMOTDibbler Tue 15-Nov-16 11:20:21

They will consider it to be deprivation of assets as the need for care is known and it is out of the normal way of spending.

filsfieryfurnace Tue 15-Nov-16 13:47:07

This is really useful. the phrase 'deprivation of assets' is now being discussed at length in the family!

hatgirl Tue 15-Nov-16 14:02:43

Yep it wont make any difference to the financial assessment they will just do the assessment as if the 10k is still in the account... not their problem that it isnt.

Local Authorities are massively cracking down on this because they are so short of money.

It isnt just a matter of it needing to be done a few months ago, any money that has been disposed of AT ANY TIME with the specific intention of avoiding care fees can be taken into account. There used to be a 7 year limit on this but that no longer exists either.

Rosa Tue 15-Nov-16 14:08:30

Slightly hijacking. Parent 1 is in home and Parent 2 lives in house - owned jointly. Parent 2 dies . I presume then that on the sale of the house 100% of the sale will have to go towards paying for the care home - NOw it is about 50/ -50 . How does it work ? Do we as children hold the money and pay or do they just take the lot and let us have the rest back ( if there is any when he dies) . Or do they take back more to recoup their costs ? I bloody hope this doesn't happen but I would like to be prepared .

hatgirl Tue 15-Nov-16 14:24:49

It would depend on if parent 2's share is due to go to parent 1 on their death or to their children.

You would need to let the council know about parent 1's change of financial circumstances either way. The council will then do a financial reassessment on parent 1 and every month after that parent 1 will be invoiced by the council for the amount they are required to pay that month (although most families set up a direct debit).

If/when parent 1's income/savings drop again below £23k due to paying increased care fees for however they can be reassessed again to pay less.

hatgirl Tue 15-Nov-16 14:30:08

That should read 'for however long'

Sorry I've not explained it very well but basically the sale of the house will mean that parent 1 is likely to become 'full cost' and whatever arrangements you have currently to pay the 50% will stay in place, it's just you will now be paying 100%

This will drop back down to a lesser percentage later down the line when parent 1s savings drop below the 'financial charging threshold' (£23k) again.

Hopefully that's a bit clearer!

Fortybingowings Wed 16-Nov-16 17:27:50

How far back (in years) do they go when looking at money gifted away

hatgirl Wed 16-Nov-16 18:49:04

There isnt a time limit anymore providing there is a belief that it has been deliberately gifted to avoid paying care fees they expect to have in the future.

So for example if someone gets given a diagnosis of MS or dementia and decided at that point to gift large sums of money they could clearly be seen to have deliberately intended to deprive their assets from the state.

It becomes more of a grey area if older but otherwise healthy individuals decide to gift money e.g to children/grandchildren for house deposits. I suspect in those circumstances it would be more difficult for the state to prove a deliberate deprivation.

Each case is looked at on its own merits.

whataboutbob Wed 16-Nov-16 19:46:21

Rosa- it depends also on tenancy- is it joint tenants, or tenants in common. If joint tenants then at death it all automatically goes to surviving spouse, no matter what the will says (ie even if your P2 had left the house to you in his/her will). this happened to me, mum died leaving me her house but as it was a joint tenancy with my Dad, he automatically inherited it. He is now in a care home. If it was tenants in common, then the deceased person's heirs would inherit 1/2 of the property. Most ownerships though are joint tenancies, but worth thinking about when writing a will. Tenancies can be changed.

Rosa Fri 18-Nov-16 09:37:06

Thank you for this is been very helpful and also the tennacy stuff. I am presuming though that if we try to change the joint to common they will stop us as it will be deemed as 'unreasonable or otherwise .' However I will have a look further.

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