The Trinity Whitgift Dulwich 11+/10+ thread 2014 pt3

(202 Posts)
SJ69 Tue 04-Mar-14 10:14:36

Part 2 reached 1000 posts so start part 3 here.
If you need to follow part 2, the link is as follow.

Dibbleofficer Tue 04-Mar-14 10:29:17

And running again ..need this thread very much at the moment

mummyinatizz Tue 04-Mar-14 10:35:54

Best of luck to all of you making what are obviously agonising decisions. We were lucky only to be offered one school, thankfully our preferred, so easy for us.
poozie sorry you didn't get your grammar offer, back on the blower to W?

ladydepp Tue 04-Mar-14 12:10:22

Email from W this morning asking which school we had chosen instead "for marketing purposes".

ladymuck Tue 04-Mar-14 13:50:27

Message deleted by MNHQ at OP's request.

woodcote75 Tue 04-Mar-14 20:13:59


woodcote75 Tue 04-Mar-14 20:15:01


woodcote75 Tue 04-Mar-14 20:17:32

SORRY, that was my son- thinks he's funny!

pooziepuzzle Tue 04-Mar-14 22:24:30

Any decisions Dibbleofficer? Presume if accepting places tomorrow at deadline this can be done by phone??

pooziepuzzle Tue 04-Mar-14 22:25:02

Any decisions Dibbleofficer? Presume if accepting places tomorrow at deadline this can be done by phone??

Dibbleofficer Wed 05-Mar-14 07:18:30

Thanks so much everyone ... Still very hard

Really like Wilsons and it is probably purely more academic is in the top 25 of all schools state or private in the uk

But love Dulwich ..added value , etc


Hipster1 Wed 05-Mar-14 07:40:54

Tough choices. I would probably go grammar if I had that decision to make. If I felt I had made the wrong one at least I would have the 13+ intake and indies to revise my decision. Unfortunately this couldn't work the other way round as getting into grammar not at original intake is incredibly difficult.

ladymuck Wed 05-Mar-14 08:19:53

If you need an extra day or 2 to make up your mind, or are on the waitlist you can phone and ask for another tour round. I would definitely make the call before the deadline today, but it would buy you an extra couple of days if that is what you need. If you have just missed out on a grammar place, then I believe the grammars are writing/emailing today to give you details of scores and how close you may be to their cut-off. Equally I would expect the independent schools to start going down their lists this afternoon.

Dibbleofficer Wed 05-Mar-14 09:09:23

Thanks ...dc are chasing hard ..

Dibbleofficer Wed 05-Mar-14 09:12:02

A real gnawing issue is living a short bike ride from Dc ..but making DS take a train etc to Wilson's

Friends locally are also a big factor

But very much agree on the fact that u cannot change the decision the other way re indie to grammar ... But at 13 plus can make the other switch

LostinLondon Wed 05-Mar-14 10:11:25

Has anyone else chosen W at 11+? Would be nice to know there'll be some MNers in the cohort for this year.

ladymuck Wed 05-Mar-14 11:39:16

LostinLondon - think that dippingbackin is def W 11+, and I thought that there was a sports scholar too on the last thread.

Dibble, I am always cautious about league tables I'm afraid because they measure a snapshot of one aspect. Wilsons for example is up to 180 boys this year (and from this point on). One of the reasons that the head wanted to add a class of girls was so that he would get the top 30 girls in the area rather than the boys ranked 151-180. It will have a slight pull on the stats (and the cynical side of me says that he would be easily able to claim to be the top co-ed in the country, but perhaps I have seen too much school marketing). If you were only looking at the results of say the top 100 boys at each of the schools there would be a different comparison. But equally how cut-throat do we want the schools to get? Some of these boys are dealing with physical and mental illnesses common in the teenage years, some will be dealing with bereavement etc... Newstead Woods tumbled down the league tables by some ridiculous amount just because 1 girl got a D in maths. I really don't think that that means that the school is suddenly a poor one, though on the face of it it has gone from a top 10 to a top 150 school in a year....

DC traditionally don't negotiate on their scholarships to the best of my knowledge, which is a shame as you obv have a bright boy. I guess if you can afford it and DC is the most local school, then it must be tempting.

Mummynet29 Wed 05-Mar-14 12:16:23

Ladymuck which school have u decided to go for?

Mummynet29 Wed 05-Mar-14 12:20:18

W've decided to go with T..Any others here for T?wud b good to know as my DS will have to find new friends...none of his frens are going to T sad

Hipster1 Wed 05-Mar-14 12:24:25

My son was the only from his school that went to T. Friends was not an issue. There will be lots of boys in the same situation.

PookieSnackenberger Wed 05-Mar-14 12:36:51

I've just declined a scholarship in favour of Wilson's which feels very strange. Quite honestly it is pretty much the only school I would have accepted over the independent offer.

I think the extra Wilson's/Sutton places will be having a serious knock-on effect across the board in the local independent sector.

ladydepp Wed 05-Mar-14 12:37:02

1 boy from our primary is going to T on his own, your DS defo won't be the only one mummynet29

Seeline Wed 05-Mar-14 12:44:08

Mummynet - my DS was the only one from his school when he started (at 10+ - so not even moving on at the same time as friends). He settled in fine and now has lots of friends. The school is very good at helping the boys get to know each other. They do a lot in their forms, some stuff in different teaching groups, and some things across the year so plenty of chances to meet others.

PookieSnackenberger Wed 05-Mar-14 12:44:25

mummynet29 - It is often a fresh start at secondary and they make a whole host of new friends. Trinity is a fabulous school and I am certain your DS will feel totally at home from day 1.

My older ones kept in touch with old friends and made new circles of friends. It was never a problem.

dippingbackin Wed 05-Mar-14 13:25:00

lostinlondon DS will be going to W at 11+ with an all round scholarship. Slightly worried about the journey as we really are a long way out but he is so keen! He has chosen it over staying at his current school with all his mates and he won't know anyone starting at W! Clearly they did a good job of impressing him.

Shewhomustobeyed Wed 05-Mar-14 13:31:59

Well done to all the boys (and parents) who got the results they wanted.

As parent gearing up for the 11+ for the first time, may I ask what you feel the secret of your success was?

Many thanks

LostinLondon Wed 05-Mar-14 14:34:33

dippingbackin They did an extremely good job at impressing my DS too (and DH!). He'll be coming via Clapham Junction and knows at least one other 11+ boy who'll be making the same journey but still pretty daunting.
My DS chose W over an easy coach ride to DC with lots of boys he knows (including his big brother) so I'm quite proud he made such a bold choice.

TCofB Wed 05-Mar-14 15:10:34

W has 3 days of induction for new boys before term starts which was a real help for making new friends and getting familiar with the school - my DS didn't know anyone before he started and it wasn't a problem

Dibbleofficer Wed 05-Mar-14 15:57:41

Thanks lady ...DS will be going to Wilson's , it is a great school , true what you say re league tables but Oxbridge entries were also in the high 20s last year ..that's better than almost all indies ...very bright boys ..well taught

I am pleased now the choice has been made ...

Myriam35690 Wed 05-Mar-14 16:43:58

Dibbleofficer... glad to hear to hear about you have finally made a decision. These are all great schools - it has been so difficult for us too.

In the end we have also chosen to go with Wilson's over Whitgift with a scholarship. DS did not mind either way as long as not our local (improving) comp. I tortured myself for weeks but at the end of it all I could not justify the financial committment over the next 7 years for the extras an indie would provide when measured against a school of a calibre such as Wilsons. Leagues tables are indeed not an end in itself but I too compared leavers destinations and subjects taken over the last few years and it was quite impressive (another of the Sutton grammar - we may have gone for Whitgift with the added consideration of the travel to/from school).

Another thing that helpt us make our final choice was the fact that DS is quite academic and we did not feel he would miss so much of the wider range of extra-curricular sports / music activities available at an indie. No A team football player here but he will still be able to continue playing and also take up a new instrument which he was keen on in Year 7.

Also pleased with our choice and to have come to the end of this entry process... now let the fun start for DS!

Mummynet29 Wed 05-Mar-14 17:40:18

Thanks all....ur words have assured me that he will be not on his own...I don't think he's that much worried it's us mums who fuss more grin

ipreferletters Wed 05-Mar-14 21:08:51

Hi there, thanks for all your words and conversations, very useful. Now waiting for the call for waiting list at T! Fingers crossed. They did not tell me where we are on the list, 'not at liberty to say'.

Just sharing some info from another Mum who has an extremely bright boy: joined DC at 11, did not have a good personal experience there and moved to Wilsons at 13 (so it is possible to move indies to grammar!), and is now at Cambridge. She told me that the pastoral care at Wilsons is really not great. I thought I would let you know as it is quite important to look after these boys during their teenage years from a character development perspective, not just academically. She said that they did a lot, as a family, to support him and help him grow as an adult. Her other two boys are at T, and she could not sing their praises more highly.

AliceLostinWonderland Wed 05-Mar-14 21:23:23

Anyone going to Sutton Grammar School?

EyesWideClosed Wed 05-Mar-14 21:34:43

ipreferletters: your information seems contrary to the general consensus about the current pastoral care at Wilsons. Am I right in thinking that your friend's son did not have positive experiences at both DC and Wilson's? Might the issue not have been with the schools?

PookieSnackenberger Wed 05-Mar-14 21:50:40

I have to agree EWC - also if this boy is now at University then this is all quite some time ago. I have close friends whose oldest son attended Wilson's and he had a wonderful time. For every school there will be claim and counter-claim. The judgement is more about whether your child is a good fit for a school and vice versa.

Hipster1 Wed 05-Mar-14 22:04:33

ipreferletters - I didn't say Indie to Grammar was not possible. Of course it is! But you have to wait for spaces to come up. They do not do a 13+ intake, which was my point.

ipreferletters Thu 06-Mar-14 00:24:17

Apologies, I have not been very clear: this boy was not happy at DC and moved to Wilson's where he thrived, particularly in an academic sense, completing his studies with a flurry of A*. He did not have any particular personal issues at Wilson's, however his Mum told me that they do not support the boys in their character development (normally covered under pastoral care) as they are concentrated on the academic side.
Perhaps you are all correct that this is now a few years back, and indeed things may have changed. The family, however, did not send the other two younger sons at Wilson's and preferred T, where they found not only excellent academics but also a very supportive pastoral care. This was despite they live on one income and it is a financial stretch (they have a younger boy who is still in primary).
Hope it helps, of course it is only one experience, and not even mine ... 'night night

Seeline Thu 06-Mar-14 08:30:57

Wallington Boys does actually say on its website that it takes up to 15 boys at 13+ when re-arranging the year for GSCEs. Other Sutton Grammars only have places as and when available.

Myriam35690 Thu 06-Mar-14 08:47:12

Ipreferletters - I heard similar things about Wilsons not being as strong on the pastoral care with greater emphasis on the academic side. If I am honest this is the area that held me back in my choice of a school as it is of great importance to DH and I. Number and availability of staff is bound to be impacted by a much reduced money pot so I guess this is one of the extras you pay for at an indie. Down to the family and the individual DS - awareness is key as I am hoping is the choice of extra curricular activities to strike a balance with the acamedic side. In fairness to Wilson's I should add that the school was very prompt in addressing a one-off concern a parent I spoke to had, and all I spoke to were happy with care and support provided.

JustAnotherUserName Thu 06-Mar-14 09:46:38

Does it never end? Having chosen DC, we now receive a letter telling us that within the next two weeks we need to tell them whether DS will choose French or Spanish for Years 7 and 8!!!! Already. Can't I have a rest from decisions for a little while longer......

Hipster1 Thu 06-Mar-14 10:18:01

I know... from memory I got the letter from T asking, French, Spanish, German or Mandarin. Quite important. This forms the 'class' they are assigned to.

miss600 Thu 06-Mar-14 10:28:10

Parents do pull their children out of Trinity too for various reasons, although clearly the majority love it.

All these current and prospective Wilson's parents will have to think up ingenious ways of filling the supposed gap in pastoral care and character-building relative to that afforded by neighboring private schools. A few £000's saved on fees every year won't hurt their efforts wink

JustAnotherUserName Thu 06-Mar-14 10:28:16

OK. So all the boys are "naice" of course, but is there any difference between the type of boy that chooses Spanish over the type that chooses French - so I can best choose the sub-cohort that my DS mixes with!

Spanish - more emotional, exuberant, flamboyant. Think Guitars. Flamengo. The paso doble.
French - more refined, literary, aesthete, a sense of fallen grandeur.

Seeline Thu 06-Mar-14 10:31:40

Can't help you I'm afraid JAUN - at T they do 2 out of 4. My DS does French and Spanish and I haven't noticed any split-personality traits grin
Mind you I'm not sure I've noticed any of the aspects you've identified apart from emotional and I think that's probably common to all 12 yo boys wink

ladymuck Thu 06-Mar-14 10:47:37

I guess you might want to think about where future school trips may go, and if there is an exchange program?!

We're just starting to think about GCSE/Year 9 options, and realising that ds needs to think about from which column he is choosing subjects which appear more than once, if he wants to stick with friends! Wouldn't have dawned on me to check if I didn't bump into mothers of girls....

Hipster1 Thu 06-Mar-14 12:09:02

No difference as far as I can see... ha ha.
Although, Mandarin was specified as being particularly difficult compared to the other. Learning a new alphabet, etc.

ladymuck Thu 06-Mar-14 12:39:17

So Myriam, MotherofSuburbia - minds made up yet? EyesWideClosed are you off to Wilsons? Any hand holding left, or are we down to induction details?!

PookieSnackenberger Thu 06-Mar-14 13:07:11

JAUN - it's a matter of huge importance. In the end I solved the dilemma by serving paella and coq au vin for dinner one evening. Thankfully DS went for paella so it's flamenco, castanets and trips to Salamanca here.

ladydepp Thu 06-Mar-14 13:16:01

I received the French/Spanish letter from DC yesterday too. I asked DS last night and he told me to choose! I think he is seriously fed up of making decisions, as am I smile. Think we might flip a coin for this one wink

JustAnotherUserName Thu 06-Mar-14 13:41:06

What I loved most was the line about Spanish being so important for culture and heritage (in the "Things to consider to help you chose" bumf).

And no mention of the same for French. Tee hee..... love how that would wind any French DPs receiving the same.

JustAnotherUserName Thu 06-Mar-14 13:42:03

love France and the French by the way, but it really struck me as odd that DC took the view Spain=Culture (rather than French!).

ladydepp Thu 06-Mar-14 14:37:08

I hadn't noticed the Spanish culture bit, how funny!

I have a feeling DS will want to do the same language as one of his current schoolmates. I think I will let him choose as I don't feel very strongly about it.

EyesWideClosed Thu 06-Mar-14 14:38:56

Still's a choice between a generous scholarship at T and a place at Wilson's....

Myriam35690 Thu 06-Mar-14 15:11:11

LadyM - yes we have made our mind up and have gone for Wilson's (I posted yesterday).. Torture over - the only decision I am making over the next few days is which restaurant to pick to celebrate! And to think I was looking at people with incredulous eyes when they were telling me this is the going to be one of the hardest decisions I was going to have to make... !

mummyinatizz Fri 07-Mar-14 12:17:50

Hi All - did someone mention a 3 day induction at W? my DS will be starting year 6 in Sept, they have told us about a half day induction week before school starts. maybe different for year 7s?

Croydonmumtods Fri 07-Mar-14 14:44:54

mummyinatizz there is a 3 day induction for year 6 but not compulsory. A good informal way for the boys to get to know each other. Last year this was at the end of August. The half day induction is compulsory and more formal in that they have to wear uniform and will be introduced to form teachers.

mummyinatizz Fri 07-Mar-14 14:56:48

thanks croydonmumtods I could do with W confirming dates etc, already had to rearrange summer hols dates once. Guess they'll be finalising new intake over the next couple of weeks as they work through wait lists etc.

TCofB Fri 07-Mar-14 15:05:47

yes induction is optional - usually Tue - Thu of the week before term starts (you can opt to do all, some or no days) - it's for new boys so 10+ and 11+ (and I think any new 12+ & 13+) - W new joiners will get a letter about it in due course. a variety of activities such as orienteering, golf, rugby, music, science etc etc

pooziepuzzle Fri 07-Mar-14 18:57:36

Any decisions EyesWideClosed?

EyesWideClosed Fri 07-Mar-14 21:23:31

pooziepuzzle: intend to make the decsion this weekend!

EyesWideClosed Fri 07-Mar-14 21:23:57


pooziepuzzle Fri 07-Mar-14 21:26:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ladymuck Fri 07-Mar-14 22:05:11

Excellent news Pooziepuzzle! Well done to your ds, and you for enduring the last 3 week wait. Take your ds on another visit, and he might remember why he liked it in the first place. Did you get any idea of how many other calls are being made?! Really glad that it has worked out for you, despite some highs and lows along the way.

ipreferletters Fri 07-Mar-14 22:06:54

Hi poozie, how did you get the all round scholarship at W? In part 2 you said you were very dissappointed of not getting even a sport schol for your DS who plays at academy level? Not being nosey, just trying to see what can be done after first offer letter or a place without scholarship ... Did you get it because someone declined a place with all round schol?? I am now 'so' confused ....

Montagueterrace Sat 08-Mar-14 08:41:30

Poozie is it too cheeky to ask how much the bursary and scholarship awards are?

Teddingtonmum1 Sat 08-Mar-14 09:36:06

Well done to you poozie showing it pays to be gently persistent with nerves of steel. Any word on brown sugar ?

wifey Sat 08-Mar-14 22:53:12

Pooziepuzzle: just curious to know how difficult it was to negotiate with W on a scholarship. Would be grateful for any advice. Did they offer a bursary too at this stage?

Somelikeithott Sun 09-Mar-14 08:59:35

Languages.. I had forgotten all about having to choose for the next academic year until i saw posts on here. So Went on W website to view the language curriculum for what choices DSs have.

They have to choose one 'Romance' language ( French or Spanish ), one oriental language ( Japanese or Mandarin Chinese), and one based around a 'case system' ( Latin or German). So I asked DS what he thinks his choices will be. His response was, Mandarin, so he can go to china to eat Chinese food, French, because he's done this from primary so he should be able to get good grades. ( He came back to me after our conversation to ask if he chose Spanish, if we could go on holidays to Latin American countries, to help him......), and Latin because he doesn't want to go to Germany. ( I didn't dare ask why). So there you go, that's a 10 year old's perspective.

I expect we'll hear from the school later this term or early next term.

EyesWideClosed Sun 09-Mar-14 11:45:45

Anyone here who has chosen an indie over a place at a grammar? Please share your thinking...

pooziepuzzle Mon 10-Mar-14 07:56:37

EyesWideClosed I certainly have friends who have chosen indies over grammar. When they felt the school suited their child more, for extra support or extra curricular stuff. or when they wanted their children in the same school, when one child at indie already. Presume finances not an issue in these cases! Any closer to your decision?

serene4 Mon 10-Mar-14 11:43:57

Hi all, Please could anyone recommend a good key stage 3 science tutor around Croydon for Dd who is in year 7 in Coloma

SoupDragon Mon 10-Mar-14 11:55:47

I chose T over a grammar for DS2. The grammar simply wasn't the right school for his, um, personality, and I felt he would always be at odds with the grammar. He has matured greatly over the last 18 months, whether through the school or simply age I don't know. Perhaps if I was making toe decision for the child he is now, I would choose differently.

At the end of the day, you need to choose the school that you think your child will do best in, and which fits your own finances of course!.

LemonEmmaP Mon 10-Mar-14 12:16:43

EyesWideClosed - we have just made the decision to go for the indie for DS, rather than the local grammar. The main reason is that we felt the indie was a better fit for DS (if I'm honest, I didn't warm to the grammar much at all, but DS seemed happy with it), but also because we think that the indie will help DS develop all around. He is very academic, and we're hoping the indie will stretch him a bit further out of his comfort zone socially. If I'm being totally honest, there's also an aspect of expecting DS to leave indie with a useful set of contacts that may help him in his future life. Some of these things may have come from the grammar, and perhaps we'll find the indie less impressive than we hope, but those were the kind of things that swayed our decision.

EyesWideClosed Mon 10-Mar-14 12:58:25

Thanks for the input everyone. We are still undecided, and have a couple more days to play with. Any further comments would be greatly appreciated.

Ladymuck Mon 10-Mar-14 13:19:00

It is usually much easier to move from grammar to indie than the other way round, especially for boys where 12+, 13+, 14+ and 16+ are all options.

ROZ12 Mon 10-Mar-14 21:49:57

Hi all,

Anyone help me with this query? I've been turned down for a bursary today from Old Palace as they say there is no budget left. I clearly know a friend who is going to turn down their place with 25% bursary should I mention this? Or will it sound bad? I need to accept my full fee place soon.

Let me know

Asterisk Mon 10-Mar-14 22:20:17

I have no specific info on how they operate, but I think they probably expect a few bursary places to be turned down and have made more offers than they can afford. I don't think that they will hold it against you if you ask whether they operate a 'waiting list' for bursaries in case some bursary places are freed up. I guess they will only know when the deadline comes though, and you're going to need to have accepted by then. If it's any consolation, we've had a very good experience there and my DD has loved it. Although after taking part in a huge production of West Side Story with Whitgift, schoolwork is feeling a little lacklustre by comparison.

icklemonst Mon 10-Mar-14 23:44:38

eyeswideclosed - we have chosen an indie over a super-selective grammar, finally filled out the paperwork today after much deliberation, though all along really felt the indie would give DS a much more rounded education, leaving him better equipped for life beyond A level results (also a wider variety of extra-curricular activities; much better, all on-site sports facilities) - and that he would have more fun on the way! Practical issues played a part too - including an easier journey to indie and a preference for co-ed.
As others have said before - you have to find the school that best fits your DC, all grammars/indies are not equal.
Despite all my convictions about the indie though, it was still hard to turn down a much-sought after grammar place particularly when that had been our focus for a year or so when working towards the 11+ exams.
Good luck with your decision.

mummyinatizz Tue 11-Mar-14 14:35:20

Hi all - Are all decisions made now, when is/was the closing date? We were early accepters, seems like an age ago since 14 Feb!
My DS (10+ W) is desperate for info on next year, (me too) did read somewhere that the next 6 months can drag. Anything he/I can get excited about?

Somelikeithott Tue 11-Mar-14 15:51:07

Hi mummyinatizz, few things I remember from last year. You need to book your uniform appointment as soon as possible really. I think the bookings were for April/May onwards. You will need to call school shop to book the appointment.

There will be a couple of meetings around June time as well. One for the exciting Lake Garda trip and one for what to parents & new boys should expect when they become whitgift boys. You will get all the info. through the post soon, I'm sure.

Also, usually the Tuesday to Thursday after August bank holiday they have taster/ settling period which is not compulsory but good for the boys. You can do all or some days. Then on the Friday, they go to school in uniform and meet their class teachers and classmates and have some sort of orientation. And the parents also get to meet the teachers, and hand in some specified items for LG trip.

I believe there is also a 2 day sports in July, again not ompulsory, open to general public I think.

The 6 months didn't really drag on for us ( probably for DS though), as he had moved on to whitgift, and we had to tell him his offer was conditional on him still doing well in 3rd term as they wanted to see his final school report ( covers mouth in shame).

Is your DS the only one going to W from his school? ( in his year or at 11+). I remember feeling the same as you last year. After the uniform bill reality started to dawn on us lol!!!

ladydepp Tue 11-Mar-14 18:55:08

We have not chosen W but I really recommend the sports and science courses which they generally do during most holidays, including summer. I think my DS is really going to miss those. It doesn't really feel right to choose a different school and the go to W sports camp!

mummyinatizz Wed 12-Mar-14 10:35:16

Thanks somelikeithott and ladydepp - will call the shop for uniform appointment. Did someone mention 2nd hand sales, guess they might coincide with the June get togethers? or maybe not?
DS did the sports courses last year, an effort to motivate him to study hardier. But do like the final school report fib - will use that too!
And he's the only one from his school, but knows of a few others 10+ and 11+ from rugby/football teams etc.

Croydonmumtods Wed 12-Mar-14 13:57:04

mummyinatizz there is a second hand uniform sale this Saturday 10.30 to 12 and there will be one next term as well. The ladies running the sale are really helpful and will advise on kit if you are not sure.

mummyinatizz Thu 13-Mar-14 10:22:46

thanks croydonmumtods, unf can't make this weekend. hopefully next time

pooziepuzzle Thu 13-Mar-14 19:49:29

Any decisions EyesWideClosed?
Anyone joining W planning on doing Easter football course? Just wondering if likely to be boys going in Sept or mainly boys thinking for future?

mummyinatizz Mon 17-Mar-14 11:04:25

hi poozie - glad to hear you're in - welcome for holding out. we're not doing the easter courses - did all sorts last year trying to keep DS motivated for the exams.

mummyinatizz Mon 17-Mar-14 11:16:04

poozie well done for holding out, not welcome for holding out!

pooziepuzzle Tue 18-Mar-14 18:02:42

Does anyone h

pooziepuzzle Tue 18-Mar-14 18:03:57

Does anyone have any ideas on how much waiting lists may move for both Indies and Grammars at this stage? Thanks

Poundpup Tue 18-Mar-14 20:13:47

Not too sure about indies but boy's grammar schools offer at least 10 - 15 places following the initial offer. Some years it can be more sometimes less. However, if you are enquiring about the Sutton grammar schools, it's all change this year because Tiffin boys has changed how they allocate places.

Basically, there will be a second round of offers made over the next couple of weeks and towards the end of the month you will be advised of your waiting list place. This should give you a better idea of where you stand.

Ladymuck Tue 18-Mar-14 23:00:10

For 10+ there may still be one or two who duck out from W or T leaving room for WL.

11+ - the first round of new offers from grammars will be next week I think. I've been surprised by the number of boys who received grammar places but didn't get scholarships at Whitgift or Trinity this year. There is therefore a good chance that any boy offered a grammar place in this next round will already be on a full fees place at one of these two schools and therefore may well jump to the grammars. That should open up a place on the full fees 11+ wait list (assuming both schools still have one). I think that the scholarships have already been already allocated, but I assume anyone who is now offered a grammar place, would at least talk to the Foundation school about the possibility for a scholarship, I'm just not sure how far the indies would move at this stage.

Clavinova Wed 19-Mar-14 09:08:41

Ladymuck - Do you know if W and T have offered less academic scholarships at 11+ this year or just to a different set of boys? Has the focus of the grammar exams changed at all compared to W and T? How many 11+ candidates sat for W and T and Caterham this year compared to last year? May consider these schools for DS2 - any help appreciated!

Ladymuck Wed 19-Mar-14 14:06:51

I started responding, and found that I'd written an essay!

Yes, fewer academic awards at 11+ from W & T I'd say, though that is a continuing trend I think. There are now 420 boys grammar places, so a lot of competition there. More academic awards at 10+ and 13+ Numbers of applicants up at all schools, but lots are sitting more schools than ever before.

In terms of how the exams have changed: The final Wilson's score is based 40% on their creative writing task for next year, so that will be a key area. If you have someone who is reasonable for maths, but who can write well, then you have a very good chance of a Sutton grammar place, whereas I think that the Trinity exams possibly still suit mathematicians who are weaker on English (given the verbal reasoning papers contains codes etc, and say up to half the paper is technique rather than vocabulary driven). Whitgift entrance is a different matter - this one is still very much looking at the whole boy to see what they can work with. If your son is particularly "lopsided" or quirky in terms of ability then I think W gives him the best chance of a place. I think to have a chance of a bursary you have to be at scholarship level, and I know prep boys heading to Wilsons as they only got full fee offers from W & T. Which will have a knock on effect at Wilsons especially on the co-curricular.

In terms of preparation - no one is going in unprepared these days. The Sutton Grammar PTA mocks will give you an initial idea as to where your son sits within the cohort for the year. But it is a numbers game in part - 420 boys grammar places, 100 or so 11+ at W, 70 at T, 20-30 at C - those are good odds to be honest (unless you have a very strong preference for co-ed.....). For the indies I think that the threshold for getting a place was highest at T. C always has a wider range of ability due to their prep school pupils not having to compete at 11+, but there were a number of external siblings who didn't get an offer this year. I don't know of any full feepayer not getting into W at 11+ this year, but other posters do, so they may have a better view of where the threshold was. If you definitely want W or T then I think 10+ is possibly the best option - the scholarships aren't as big but there seem to be more of them, and you can get bursaries without the same level of competition? Though I guess it may still work out that you're simply getting 8 years for the price of 7...

Clavinova Wed 19-Mar-14 15:43:38

Thanks for that Ladymuck - very useful!

pooziepuzzle Wed 19-Mar-14 17:51:07

Wallington boys made phone calls yesterday with new offers. I wonder if the waiting list moves much after this?

Ladymuck Wed 19-Mar-14 19:11:03

I suspect there will be some movement until the end of term.

Does anyone know of any boy who passed Wilson's but not get a grammar place (somewhere)?

Myriam35690 Wed 19-Mar-14 19:53:01

LadyMuck... I know of a boy whom passed Wilson's second round but did not go through 1st round offers, nor any of his other grammar choices on CAF form.

Ladymuck Wed 19-Mar-14 20:06:35

Thanks. I was wondering whether, given that only 424 did pass, that it would give a level of comfort in terms of getting an eventual place. I hope for his family that the moves in the next week or two go in his favour. I don't know anyone has heard from Wilson's re waitlist yet - nothing expected until next week I think?

SweetPenelope Wed 19-Mar-14 20:36:38

Ladymuck, I know a boy who passed Wilson's second test, didn't get any grammar place and got offered Greenshaw.

PookieSnackenberger Wed 19-Mar-14 22:02:41

Goodness - I think it must be very unlucky indeed to pass the Wilson's second stage test and not get any Sutton grammar place offer at all. My (perhaps flawed) logic was a pass for Wilson's would mean some kind of grammar offer was all but guaranteed. Fingers crossed those boys get a second stage offer - they must surely be very borderline for an offer of some sort. Proof positive that there are no guarantees whatsoever.

I agree that Trinity was a tough gig this year. I know of one boy offered a scholarship elsewhere who did not get an offer from Trinity. They are more limited on places and can afford to be choosy.

Sthlonmum Wed 19-Mar-14 22:49:10

Ladymuck- please can you explain why more prep school boys going to Wilson's will have a knock on effect on their co-curricular. I hope you aren't implying that prep school boys will have a different impact than boys from state primaries.

winniethepoor Wed 19-Mar-14 23:45:58

Will it be prep school boys will be ahead in some of the subjects? Also, Wilson wrote to some parents who put it not as first choice to contact them if they now want a place with Wilson. I think they are trying to get the best boys. Do not know if Sutton Grammar and Wallington Boys did the same.

Ladymuck Wed 19-Mar-14 23:48:01

Agree Pookie, not so much about the Sutton places per se, but clearly a number of the 424 who passed were sitting with Olaves or Tiffin as their first choice. Oh well, useful to know - if nothing else it should give hope to those who pass SET but not Wilson's that they're not out of the running at all. Given that one of the key differences between the schools was the English paper, I wonder to what extent this changed the relative rankings? Of course, at the cut off for these schools, the marks of the boys are likely to be bunched together, so it may not be able to see much of a pattern at all.

Ladymuck Thu 20-Mar-14 00:05:34

I'm curious that Wilson's are in fact allowed to approach parents who have been offered a place by their higher preference. I would have expected the data on candidates who had passed but not chosen the school to not then be used by the school to solicit a late application. I guess that may be one of the reasons why they have to consult on the supplementary information form? So essentially they are using data freely given by parents directly to the school, and not via the CAF?

I know the girls's schools have done similar.

winniethepoor Thu 20-Mar-14 07:40:07

Yes, I received the letter from Wilson and asked us to contact their admission team if we are interested. We put Wilson as 2nd choice and DS was already admitted to his 1st choice school. My friend received a similar letter, with Wilson being 3rd choice!

Ladymuck Thu 20-Mar-14 08:51:03

I guess it also explains in part why Wilson's is waiting another week before going down its own waitlist. Seems strange that the 3 Sutton schools don't have to reoffer to the same timetable?

EyesWideClosed Thu 20-Mar-14 10:45:35

winnie: Do you mind saying what your first choice was and your friend's? Are you tempted?

winniethepoor Thu 20-Mar-14 11:30:02

EyesWideClosed, no both me and my friend are not tempted (otherwise would have chosen Wilson as our 1st choice). My DS will go to Sutton Grammar which is within walking distance to us, makes things so much easier. My friend's son also chosen and can get into Sutton Grammar but he will go to a good private school for various reasons.

pooziepuzzle Thu 20-Mar-14 11:41:46

EyesWideClosed did you make your decision? Think this poaching of boys happens every year

EyesWideClosed Thu 20-Mar-14 13:07:38

Poozie: Wilson's
Ladymuck: please expand on your theory about the English paper at Wilson's. Do you think that it might shift the school away from the (rightly or wrongly) Maths /Science bias?

Myriam35690 Thu 20-Mar-14 13:36:16

EyeWideClosed - nice to hear that you have reached a decision and chosen Wilson's as well.

pooziepuzzle Thu 20-Mar-14 13:46:10

I am presuming there will be quite a bit of movement between the grammars? Boys who maybe didn't get first choice grammar now shifting as places become available?

Ladymuck Thu 20-Mar-14 13:56:40

Oh, I wasn't thinking about the maths/science bias of the school per se. I'm more interested in how the grammars and the indies make their selections given the different parameters in both sectors.

The independents have a smaller pool to select from, and are therefore forced to take a wider range of ability, and so they need to ensure that they have boys who will work well in their environments. They can also charge boys to sit their tests. (I wonder if the day is coming when an additional fee will be levied to sit for scholarships?!)

The grammars can only select by test results, but the cost of testing comes directly from their budgets - there is no central funding for this. Off the top of my head a company such as GL charge over £20 per multiple paper to mark and standardise it. Where the marking has to be done by hand eg essays and standard form maths, the costs increase further. Hence the move to sharing a single screening/eligibility test, thereby allowing the schools to either reduce the costs or to concentrate on the more time consuming areas eg writing.

The schools have now been consulting on next year's admissions. Wilson's had already been the school which applied the least weighting to the SET (30%) and most to their own maths and English papers (35% each), with the other 2 schools being 40:30:30 I believe. For next year the Wilson's ratios are 20:40:40, so the English paper will have even greater weight. I'm speculating as to why they've gone in that direction, and my assumption is that they feel that they can differentiate between the boys better via the English than the maths (I get the impression that an awful lot of these boys can get at least 80% in a maths paper every time without breaking a sweat, with many who would feel that 95% would be a disappointment!).

I do think that there are potential dangers if creative writing does become the key differentiator for an intake given it can be very subjective to mark.

SweetPenelope Thu 20-Mar-14 20:00:33

I thought schools don't get told where their school is put on the form. Wilson's will only know that a boy did well in the exam, but isn't on the list of admissions. So I guess it's worth a try to get the highest scorers.

pooziepuzzle Thu 20-Mar-14 20:36:02

Someone mentioned to me about sibling policy within grammar system. I didn't think there was one. Any knowledge anyone?

EyesWideClosed Thu 20-Mar-14 21:17:21

Winnie: Did your letter imply that if you were interested there would be a place for your ds or that he would go on the waiting list?
poozie: Wilson's clearly states that there is no sibling policy. I presume that applies to other schools

SweetPenelope Thu 20-Mar-14 21:19:40

No sibling policies at the schools we tried for I.e. Sutton grammars and Tiffins. Don't know about other schools.

Admission policies have to be clearly defined and will be on a school's website.

pooziepuzzle Thu 20-Mar-14 22:42:33

Anyone attending Whitgift had any correspondence from them? I am presuming they will write to tell me to contact uniform shop etc? Thanks

winniethepoor Thu 20-Mar-14 23:04:15

Eyeswideclose: my letter says Wilson will put my DS on reserve list but according to my friend, hers said Wilson will offer a place for her DS if he is interested

burntoutdad Thu 20-Mar-14 23:08:17

Poozie - don't worry you will get loads of information about everything before DS starts, maybe even a little too much! As the totally unorganized parents we are it was a struggle to keep up.

Myriam35690 Fri 21-Mar-14 06:58:49

SweetPenelope... I think you are right there... I now remember the Wilson's head clearly stating that it was illegal for them to be told of DSs' school order on CAF. I think they are simply work

Myriam35690 Fri 21-Mar-14 07:02:22

SweetPenelope... I think you are right there... I now remember the Wilson's head clearly stating that it was illegal for them to be told of DSs' school order on CAF. I think they are simply working their way down the exams results list if they still have some places.

winniethepoor Fri 21-Mar-14 09:18:44

Yes, I don't think schools will be told of the school order on the CAF but they will know if your son is allocated to their school. It may be that if your son has passed with good marks and has not been allocated their school, they will write to you. The only strange thing is both me and my friend received the letter from Wilson on 04/03/14 when the school did not know if those boys being offered places will accept their offers yet. I could understand being offered to go on the reserve list but being given an offer straight away if one is interested like my friend seems that the school is assuming that some boys will turn down its offer

AliceLostinWonderland Sat 22-Mar-14 13:15:50

winniethepoor - we received a letter from Wilson's as well re placing DS on their reserve list. My DS going to Sutton Grammar as well!

I really need help/guidance from all of you - a friend's DS is 10th position on the waiting list for Wallington, what are her chances of being offered a place? They are desperate for this place as they were offered the local comp on 3rd March.

apricotdanish Sat 22-Mar-14 14:47:38

AliceLostinWonderland, We also got a letter offering to place my son on the reserves list at Wilson's but accepted a place at Wallington, his first choice.
I don't have any in depth knowledge of these things but I would have thought 10th on the waiting list would place your friend's son in quite a strong position. I know schools over offer in anticipation of places being turned down for other options but I'd have imagine there'd be more than 10 places available from the waiting list once people have made their choices, but as I say I don't have any in depth knowledge so can only speculate. We're really happy with our choice but many seem to be going for Wilson's above Wallington so anything could happen.

pooziepuzzle Sat 22-Mar-14 15:33:28

I know indies over offer but surely the grammars are not able to? Also interested in hearing how much movement there may be on grammar waiting lists.

pooziepuzzle Sat 22-Mar-14 15:38:40

I know if you were 10 on a comprehensive school waiting list a place would almost certainly come up. Would be interested to know if the grammar list moves. I am guessing much slower and def not as much movement. Although my friend was told by Sutton Grammar that last year they offered 20 places from waiting list and 45 the year before!!

Poundpup Sat 22-Mar-14 17:03:04

Hello all,

Grammar school waiting lists! Just when you thought it was all over after March 3rd. I can talk from experience on this one. It is difficult to predict movement on waiting lists but generally, the procedure is as follows.

March 3rd - although the schools do not have CAF forms they can work out from the rank lists they have created and the list received back from the LA who has accepted schools higher up. Most schools do not contact people who have obtained a place at a higher preferred school but a few (Wilsons) do. It does not mean that the child is offer two places but they are given the opportunity to be placed onto the waiting list. As the waiting list is created in rank order these children are likely to be placed near the top and any vacancies that occur will mean they will secure a place before others on the list. Is this fair? Well, there are many threads on this issue.

Next they have to wait two weeks for the receipt of the acceptances/rejections. I believe this was March 17th this year.

Finally, the admissions officers can start to make offers to the children at the top of the list usually by telephone until the published admission number (PAN) is reached. At this point the formal waiting list is created and letters will be sent to all indicating their position on the waiting list.

Now comes the hard part. The wait...

Offers at this stage can only be made if another child declines the offer of the place. Declines at this stage are usually due to acceptances of indie school places or other preferred grammar schools.

Generally, if you are at wait list position 1- 5 it is highly likely that you will be offered a place, 6 - 10 likely and 11 -15+ possbily. This is only an estimate and year on year it changes. When you will be offered is more uncertain but anytime from late March to 1st week in September. Yep there are those that hold onto two offers (1 indie & 1 grammar) until the last possbile minute but most tend to give up their place just before Easter as they will be liable for a terms fees otherwise.

However, the Sutton boys grammar schools were mostly affected by the chain caused by the Tiffin boys offers. Tiffin boys used to rank boys by number so you could have a number of boys who all acheived the same score. If Tiffin fell below the PAN they would then offer all the boys on the same score, at the same time. e.g. 13 boys all on score 231 would all be offered. It was likely that some of these 13 also held Sutton, Wilsons and Wallington places. This in turn would create vacancies and more offers could be made. However, Tiffin have changed there ranking this year and each boy now holds their own position.

How will this affect the movement on the waiting lists, I am not sure but the most movement on the lists is generally between now and the end of April and then a slow trickle until September.

Hope this helps a little.

pooziepuzzle Sat 22-Mar-14 17:18:19

Thanks poundpup. Do you think as Wilsons has expanded to 180 places that this may create more movement within the grammars?

Poundpup Sat 22-Mar-14 18:11:16

Hi Pooziepuzzle, It may well mean there are more second round offers but it won't affect the waiting list as these places would have been allocated prior to the letters being sent out.

Have you received all the waiting list letters from the grammar schools you applied to yet?

pooziepuzzle Sat 22-Mar-14 19:08:21

Yes. We are in likely/possibly bracket! Have accepted indie place but would need to seriously reconsider if grammar came up.

Mummynet29 Sat 22-Mar-14 20:05:29

Have sutton grammar sent a letter/email giving the waiting list position?I tried to ask them over the phone but wasn't given a clear answer....

pooziepuzzle Sat 22-Mar-14 21:25:31

Mummynet29 I don't know about Sutton, sorry

pooziepuzzle Sat 22-Mar-14 21:27:57

Although I have a friend waiting on Sutton who was told over the phone they would prob get an offer in the summer but not given exact waiting list number. Another friend was told over the phone that a place is very unlikely

Poundpup Sat 22-Mar-14 22:12:26

That is fab news Poozie, you just have to hang on. I would suggest you call the admin team every couple of weeks to keep an update on your waiting list position. I went from a likely position to securing a place mid June and another boy I know was contacted the day before year 7 was due to begin.

It does happen. Fingers crossed for you.

pooziepuzzle Sat 22-Mar-14 22:40:23

Thanks poundpup. Out of interest do you know the original waiting list number for your friend who heard the day before year 7 started?

Poundpup Sat 22-Mar-14 22:57:03

Sorry, i am not sure.what his initial waiting list position was.

pooziepuzzle Sun 23-Mar-14 09:26:28

Have been reading last years thread. EyesWideClosed has your DS been at T for year 6? If so can I ask your reasons to now change to Wilsons? Or maybe you didn't accept last year after all? Just curious as our heart is with W but think we may be mad to not consider if grammar comes up.

AliceLostinWonderland Tue 25-Mar-14 20:57:07

Poundpup, I hope you don't mind what position were you initially on the waiting list at the start of the whole process?

EyesWideClosed Wed 26-Mar-14 23:13:35

Could any Wilson's parent help me out here? Reading between the lines, it does seems that there might be a bit of a culture of re-sits. Is this the case and, if so, does it explain (just a little bit) their amazing examination results?

ObjectionOverruled Fri 28-Mar-14 06:04:05

EyesWideClosed: Please explain what you mean. Reading between which lines?

Poundpup Fri 28-Mar-14 08:20:27

Alicelostinwonderland, Following the second round my child was in wait list position nine.

EyesWideClosed Fri 28-Mar-14 17:08:50

ObjectionOverruled: the lines of the newsletter which lists the costs of resits for those who are resitting exams.

ObjectionOverruled Fri 28-Mar-14 19:09:42

Who knows?! My limited experience of schools has taught me how difficult it is to truly understand what goes on in a school until you're on the inside. And even then, I know of two dc's this year who are being taken out of schools generally considered to be fantastic by current parents, because it didn't work for them.
it might not be any worse there than other schools. The termly resit nonsense has been replaced in favour of the 3 year enriched gcse curriculum,in many comparable schools. I suppose this prepares them better for a'levels and is more likely to produce better gcse results. shame this means dropping the other subjects so early though.

pooziepuzzle Mon 31-Mar-14 09:31:22

Anyone heard of waiting lists up and running for Wilsons and Sutton Grammar yet? When are second round offers normally made? Does anyone know if Wallington play any football? Would you send football mad boy there??

Ladymuck Mon 31-Mar-14 13:03:19

Apparently Wilson's will let people know about their waiting list position tomorrow. WCGS definitely plays football, mainly in this current half term (post rugby).

pooziepuzzle Mon 31-Mar-14 13:40:59

Thanks Ladymuck

pooziepuzzle Tue 01-Apr-14 14:28:57

Anyone heard of new offers being made at Wilsons today?

pooziepuzzle Tue 01-Apr-14 14:56:19

It appears the Wallington waiting list has only moved 1 place! There has apparently been alot of movement there already but clearly before the waiting list was put together. I have been told not to expect it to move more than 1 or 2 places now.

Ladymuck Tue 01-Apr-14 15:33:28

I think at least one offer was made for Wilsons yesterday but today is when they let people know their place on the list.

I know of one boy yet to turn down his WCGS place. I expect that they will by the start of next term. In the same way that boys seem to have sat for more schools than in previous years, a few seem to be holding onto both state and independent school offers.

mummyinatizz Wed 09-Apr-14 11:32:37

great excitement in our house this morning, letter about lake garda trip and loads of other new joiner gumpf!

any ideas when the next Whitgift 2nd hand uniform sale might be?

dippingbackin Wed 09-Apr-14 11:43:41

We had the language choices letter on Monday...not quite as exciting as Lake Garda!

pooziepuzzle Wed 09-Apr-14 16:59:21

We had language choices the other day and big packet this morning with all joining info, inductions etc along with direct debit forms!!! Making it seem real now......

pooziepuzzle Wed 09-Apr-14 17:01:22

Have you all booked uniform fitting slots?

dippingbackin Wed 09-Apr-14 18:10:55

Booked it this morning when out with younger DS, got home and realised it was the day DS1 goes on week long French trip with current school. Oops, not good start!

SJ69 Wed 09-Apr-14 20:58:36

When I visited the 2nd hand uniform sale last time. I asked the organizer and she said the next 2nd hand uniform sale will be on the Saturday after the new parents evening.

mummyinatizz Thu 10-Apr-14 17:25:20

thanks SJ69, will put that possible 2nd hand sale in the diary.

yes booked uniform slot for May half term, but am sure we'll find something more interesting to do during half term and have to rearrange it.

pooziepuzzle Thu 10-Apr-14 23:02:50

Haven't phoned for appt yet. Anyone know when last slots are? Want as late as poss as my DS grows so rapidly!!

SJ69 Fri 11-Apr-14 13:01:03

I remember the shop said they will be happy to change the size as long as it is in the original condition before the school start. I suggest you to call and check with the shop.

Croydonmumtods Fri 11-Apr-14 16:09:26

Date for the next secondhand uniform sale is confirmed as Saturday 21st June 10.30-12.

mummyinatizz Sun 13-Apr-14 10:53:41

croydonmumtods thanks for that info.

Quick very trivial question - DS will be on the W school bus at 715 from Sept, is he allowed to eat his breakfast on the bus, or are they superstrict about that?

clevererer Mon 12-May-14 16:52:13

Now the dust has settled for you all I wondered if you could pass on some of your knowledge to someone who will be on next years thread. My ds is in y4 at the moment at an independent prep. I am looking at options for secondary (11+) (Independent, grammar, state). My son is a bit of an all rounder, loves sports, plays 2 instruments currently at grade 2, is academically able but not (yet?) that engaged with it all and needs to be nagged/pushed to do his homework. Nothing exceptional but personable and confident. He is starting to show a bit of academic maturity and I think it could be worth having a crack at Wilsons, but would need tutoring I think. Trinity is really calling to me as I think it would suit him, and us, as a family. Whitgift is a maybe, as is Caterham. Financially I have other children so we would need to be looking at scholarships.

On those notes could I ask you:

What is the deal with 10+ entry to Trinity or Whitgift? Who does it, why? is it worth thinking about?

Where and how do I find a tutor for Wilsons? Is it too late?

Can I get copies of past papers (grammar and indie) myself to gauge the standard?

Thanks and well done to you and your boys!

SweetPenelope Mon 12-May-14 22:52:13

My DS is going to Wilson's in September. He's at a state primary.

It's not too late to tutor for Wilson's, but you probably should get a move on. DS's tutor did quite high level maths with him, but I get the impression that it really was just KS2 curriculum like the school said it would be. Creative writing is important. The second Wilson's English test was a 50 minute writing task.

The Sutton grammars and Tiffin don't release past papers. They are a bit of a mystery. You can only go by what they say on their websites and doing practice papers.

Seeline Tue 13-May-14 09:25:08

we did 10+ at W and T as a 'practice' for the Y6 round. My DS got offers at both which meant we had some big decisions to make.....
We went for Y6 entry at T in the end after considering:
-the actual possibility of a grammar school place for Y7 (competition is intense, and although bright, we weren't sure if he was bright enough)
-the likely state school we would be offered a place at (no guarantees for the reasonable comp we would have preferred)
-the likelihood of being offered places again at T and W the next year as they wouldn't hold the offers open
-what DS would gain by being bored for another year at his 'good' state primary, having to go through a year of SATs preparation, and not being pushed at all.

On balance we cut our losses and went for the Y6 entry - it was the best thing we could have done. DS soon settled despite not knowing anyone. He matured very quickly to cope with what is in effect secondary school a year early. He really enjoyed the wider curriculum, and being stretched and encouraged to question and think in different ways. Now nearing the end of Y7, he has mixed well with the new Y7 intake, and is still enjoying everything (although perhaps not the homework grin )

Seeline Tue 13-May-14 09:27:56

Oh - past papers - many schools have example papers on their web sites - try google. Also W and T have examples available at their open day events. Not so sure about the state schools. Moat people use the 'Bond' books for practice as they are of the right level. You will need to check the requirements for each school as they are all different. Usually include maths and English, but can take different forms eg multiple choice, essay writing, comprehension etc. Some also include either/or VR and NVR papers.

Hardboiled Tue 13-May-14 10:53:46

it can be done without paying a tutor. DS got a place at Wilsons and a scholarship at Trinity after being tutored by DH and I. Is it something you would consider? We used Bond papers, GL, whatever I could download from websites like past papers etc. We both work FT so it was a question of Sunday morning sessions and DS doing the homework and practice set by us during the week. We started in October of Year 5. Kept it going over summer -- he wrote a story every two-three days. We were late for Wilsons exam because of traffic and we left the car and run all the way! We just made it, he was totally breathless but I'm sure the run did it! Oxygen to the brain they say!

forago Tue 13-May-14 11:29:00

Hi Hardboiled well done all of you! where did he choose in the end. yes I am considering doing it myself. I am/was v academic and used to do well on exams (technique). we have started doing some bond papers which he is enjoying. I am not sure how realistic this is as also work FT with younger DC and he has a lot of sporting activities at the weekends.

I would be more than happy to give it a go though if enough people tell me it is doable - paying twice does annoy me [smil. I think the biggest concern is whether I have the authority with him ie yeah yeah whatever, its only mum speaking.

KPP1 Tue 13-May-14 12:01:11

It can be done without a tutor depending on your child and how responsive he is to you and how much time you have. From my experience, even if you have a tutor, parental involvement is key is making sure the work set is done and in identifying and giving encouragement in the areas of weaknes. For me, the value of the tutor is getting one who is familiar with the particular requirements of the school you are considering for ds and who has prepared others for that school. Most tutors will debrief their children about the papers they sat, some may have had past connections with the school and so can bring a bit more insight into their tutoring. If you are doing this on your own, this obviously won't be open to you.

Clevererer: Re 10 plus entry, for us our ds had outgrown his state primary and was ready to move on (in a prep, you may want to balance this against the advantages of staying longer in a prep school and aspiring to holding positions of authority).

Competition is a little less intense for year 6 places and scholarships (but of course there are fewer places awarded in year 6 than in year 7). There was a significant inrease in boys sitting 10 plus this year as opposed to two years ago, when my older ds sat. For us, it will allow our ds to settle in before the large intake at year 7.

Hardboiled Tue 13-May-14 18:09:04

He chose another indy closer to us which had also offered him a scholarship. Very very happy so far! Good luck smile

mummyinatizz Thu 15-May-14 12:16:09

Hi all,
Maybe should be asking this elsewhere as I am sure its a general secondary school question. Or maybe its more of an issue for Year 6s in a big school. My DS joins W in Sept in Year 6.

Anyway slight issue at DS year 5 this week about sex. My son is in trouble for repeating a word, he says he didn't know what it meant. The prep school don't do sex education, relying on parents to do it when they think child is ready. I don't think this is works as older siblings fill in any gaps with often wrong info. As my DS is eldest he doesn't have that advantage/ disadvantage!

When he joins W, will be discover this whole new world, from school bus talk and playground. Should I (or DH) get in early over the summer?

Any experience/advice gratefully received

Seeline Thu 15-May-14 12:23:47

Hi mummyinatizz - my Ds started T in Y6 a couple of year back. Yes - they do grow up a lot, if I can put it like that! My DS has certainly increased his vocabulary, and can pick up on more 'adult' conversations. However, he seems instinctively to know how far he can push things at home - I won't tolerate bad language. Innuendo has it's limits for a 12yo too! I think mixing with boys right the way through the school is bound to broaden their horizons.
My Ds had sex education in Y5 at his primary, so had the benefit of that before he started. IFAIK they don't cover it until second year at T in biology, although they do have lots of personal welfare etc sessions, but not sure what's been covered.
I would make sure that your DS knows the basics before he starts, and also make sure he knows that he can ask you anything. Advise him not to use words he has heard at school if he doesn't know what they mean until he's tried a dictionary/asked you to see whether it's appropriate grin

dippingbackin Sun 18-May-14 18:19:30

Am off to W tomorrow to get uniform. Can any current parents let me know if there are any bits I can do without getting? My plan had been to get the 'essentials' tomorrow and then get DS to suss out what else was actually required. I don't want to get sucked into buying everything on the list.

AllNewToUs Sun 18-May-14 23:12:21

dippingbackin - Most items of W uniform can only be bought at the shop (shirts, bags etc have embroidered emblem etc); but you can get trousers elsewhere - they need to be Charcoal (not standard grey or black) and M&S do some decent ones. Socks etc can be bought elsewhere too obviously. When you go for the fitting the Shop Managers are extremely helpful but you can find that you can easily end up buying more than the essentials! Good idea to get a tracksuit as the boys use them a fair bit in cold weather, although they are not compulsory. There will be another second hand uniform sale in the Autumn term too. Hope that helps!

Myriam35690 Wed 21-May-14 06:58:28

Cleverer - I would echo what other posters have already said. It can be done without a tutor. We only paid for a few hours with an English tutor for the creative writing part to go over the tools and techniques again. All the rest was done using Bonds by DH and I but more critically by DS. Others have commented parents' involvement is key, you also need a DS whom is "mature" enough to be self-motivated with his learning and able to see the bigger picture. We did not push DS (other than by stupidly starting too late in the process but that's another story!) but sat him down to explain his options and that the only failure would be if he did not give it his best shot. Another recommendation I would make is to sit at least one mock exams so you DS gets to experience the exams conditions - big hall, number of students, timed papers, the nerves etc. before the big day.

mummyinatizz Wed 21-May-14 12:20:03

Maybe too late for you dippingbackin but I heard some a previous poster on here that there is a Whitgift 2nd hand uniform sale on Sat 21 June. We have a new parents (Yr6) evening the week before and assume they'll mention it there too.

dippingbackin Wed 21-May-14 13:55:13

Had a successful shopping trip on Monday. Got all the crucial bits of uniform and found the lady in the shop really helpful.

DS was so excited to be wearing the uniform, he really can't wait.

The uniform shop lady said there was a sale on 21st June.

mummyinatizz Fri 30-May-14 12:13:46

Our Whitgift uniform appt was yesterday - DS very happy and excited.

Shop lady asked if DS was going to Induction days w/c 25 Aug - I had thought not, as DS been to few sports courses in the past, so familiar with the school, etc. Will DS be the only one missing? He's Year 6 Whitgift.

We have the Fri afternoon in uniform get together in the diary - but do we really need to go to the other day/days too?

any ideas? thank you

dippingbackin Fri 30-May-14 12:21:55

My DS (going into Year 7) is doing the induction days and is really excited about them. Friend's DS who started last year did not attend but said there were only a few that did not - however am sure that others will have more info.

For me it is a good way for DS to get to know boys in his form without the added pressure of work / proper sport etc.. He will also get used to doing the journey on his own, which for us is pretty lengthy.

Ladymuck Fri 30-May-14 12:33:29

I think it more depends on your child, and whether he would value those days or not. Some children will be arriving with friends from their previous schools, some are very easy going and make friends easily, some find change difficult etc. And of course it depends on your family commitments etc. Certainly some of my friends in previous years have just gone for one day. I would expect most of the bonding to be at Lake Garda and beyond.

soddinghormones Fri 30-May-14 18:17:03

When ds went into Y6 many years ago (next year will be his final year at school, sob) he did the induction days and had a fab time - it helped him become more familiar with the school (and helps some of the teachers get to know the boys) and as he was the only one going from his primary it was good to start making friends early

mummyinatizz Mon 02-Jun-14 14:59:04

thanks all for the info, DS going to do 2 of the 3 days.

mummyinatizz Mon 16-Jun-14 21:23:25

DH and I are off to W tomorrow for new boys info meeting, is it just year 6, or all new starters I wonder? Very excited anyway. Any ideas how long it will go on for and do many new parents hang around for the fellow new parents chat after?

Ladymuck Tue 17-Jun-14 14:38:17

Enjoy! Yes the 10+ and 11+ new joiners meet together this evening. You and dippingbackin need to have some sort of secret sign! (though if you post it on here all of the staff will spot you toowink)

dippingbackin Tue 17-Jun-14 16:49:57

I will be going! Will be the Mum rushing in late no doubt. Looking forward to it.

Seeline Wed 18-Jun-14 10:01:08

I expect the school have already let you know, but for any newbies at Trinity, there is a second hand uniform sale this Saturday at 8.30. They usually have loads of stuff there, especially sports kit so it may be worth a visit. smile

mummyinatizz Wed 18-Jun-14 10:50:48

Confession - I managed to cry at the W intro meeting last night, very inspiring talks from the teachers and head. Big intake: 4 X 10+ forms and 9 x 11+ forms.

Also managed to come away not knowing any more about the W 2nd hand sale on Sat - anyone know what time and where? Although haven't quite got through the wad of paperwork given out, so apols if its in there.

Ladymuck Wed 18-Jun-14 11:48:44

Presumably the 9 11+ forms includes the boys who are already in the school from current year 6/Lower First? But yes, by the time you get the 12+ and 13+ intake as well, they are large year groups.

First time that I can remember that number coming in at Year 6 though. Wonder where they're going to put them all?!

mummyinatizz Wed 18-Jun-14 13:51:54

good point ladymuck. Am guessing competition will be tighter at 11+ next Jan, unless they are increasing the intake. Glad we managed to get in this time round anyway.

pooziepuzzle Wed 18-Jun-14 18:58:27

mummyinatizz how many in a form?

mummyinatizz Thu 19-Jun-14 09:47:14

pooziepuzzle heard there were 20-24 in a form - heck of a lot of boys! Did you go on Tues night to meeting? Your DS is W isn't he?

forago Thu 19-Jun-14 10:28:01

went to visit Trinity recently - was absolutely blown away. Can anyone tell me any negatives that I might have overlooked?

Ladymuck Thu 19-Jun-14 10:41:40

Mummyinatizz, Whitgift don't have a fixed intake (whereas Trinity does). They will try to take as many boys as they can. The yeargroups can vary between 160 and 230+. I doubt that the additional Lower First form will make much difference to the 11+ intake. Even the bursary policy has always been admission round based, so even if there are a higher proportion of bursaries already in this 80-90 boys, that shouldn't reduce the chances of an 11+ bursary in January (though these places are certainly very competitive).

I suspect that the entry points which will come under pressure are the 13+ and 16+ entry where boarding entry is more likely.

Ladymuck Thu 19-Jun-14 10:52:01

It will depend on where you live, but I would say that its transport links aren't quite as good as Whitgift's, mainly because it isn't very close to a train station, and for most of us with 10/11 year old boys I suspect that we want the journey to be as simple as possible. They also use Hewletts as their uniform supplier, whereas I think a school shop on site is easier (and I hate shopping in Croydon).

Yes, I am nitpicking.... But actually with whichever school you end up, the journey is important, not just for the daily commute, but also for all the evening/Saturday events etc.

forago Thu 19-Jun-14 10:57:43

I travel into London every day via East Croydon (or South Croydon) as does his Dad so I was thinking either would be doable in the early years. When I visited I got a bus outside Trinity straight to East Croydon station, few stops, 5 minute journey - seemed surprisingly doable to me?

Ladymuck Thu 19-Jun-14 11:05:15

Oh it is, and they have staff on hand at E Croydon for the first few weeks to help ensure everyone gets the right bus etc. I am definitely nit picking. You also need to think about the occasions in December when your ds has been slow to get out of school, and its raining and he has to wait for the bus etc, and then leaves his sports bag on the bus/train etc...

[These events will of course happen at any school....]. Of course being £3k a year cheaper than W you can probably arrange for taxis to the station when necessary.

forago Thu 19-Jun-14 11:11:43

lol yes I am sure I would spend a fair amount of time driving around Croydon picking discarded bits of kit up - think we could just about handle that given we both pass through anyway and we are not that far away (same place the head lives). I also thankfully quite enjoy sneaking off to Centrale for a browse and a Starbucks on a Saturday while they're playing sports so think I could handle the location.

Do you think there would be any issues if a boy didn't get into Rugby after the first couple of compulsory years? My son is pretty sporty (football, cricket) but no liking (or build) for Rugby as yet and they do seem very keen on it at Trinity.

GetMeOut Thu 19-Jun-14 12:14:19

I don't think so. My DS is just coming to end of two years there ( joined at 10+) and there seem to be about 30 /36 or so boys that play regularly on a Saturday and attend training, do that means the majority of the year don't. There are so many other things to get into eg hockey, swimming ,music, choir, drama that it might actually be a blessing that he 's not into Rugby !

I haven't found any downsides other than not enough hours in the day ! My DS loves it there smile

GetMeOut Thu 19-Jun-14 12:14:49

So not do!

Seeline Fri 20-Jun-14 09:34:44

Forago My DS gets the train to East Croydon with my DH every morning and then buses from there - lots of the boys do. HE has the option of either the reverse journey home or changing buses at E Croydon, but usually gets the train as it's quicker. He is just finishing Y1 having started in the Junior Form and has coped with the journey quite happily.
My Ds was not sporty at all when he started (didn't want to go to a sporty school), but opted to go to extra training after a few weeks in the Junior Form, and played a few matches, this season he was a regular in the D side! so they do change grin
He is more into the music, but not as a great musician, just as one who enjoys singing. He has had fantastic opportunities with that over the last 2 years.
The school as far as we are concerned has been fantastic. DS is bright, but not genius level - they have helped him settle down and have encouraged him to learn, question and explore (things he couldn't do at his Primary). Support has been brilliant, and the pastoral side great.
ATM I haven't found any negatives!

forago Fri 20-Jun-14 11:26:23

thanks both - increasingly encouraging. May be time to start trying to get him in!

mummyinatizz Fri 22-Aug-14 14:00:16

Hope summer going/gone well for all!

Can't believe today is pretty much our last day of freedom before Whitgift induction days next week and school the following week.

Where on earth did that 6 months?

Good luck to everyone for new schools and new year!

Ladymuck Sat 23-Aug-14 10:15:48

All seems so long ago now! DS has everything packed ready to go - he is very excited, and can't wait to get his timetable. I'm waiting to see how exhausted he is going to be, and what else needs to be dropped for a while.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now