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Sick of the fuss.(124 Posts)
Having a bit of a rant here but just feel like it.
I can't understand why there is such a fuss over what school people use for their dc.
Until recently people just took their lot as the way it was, but now we all want more and not only this but what we can't have.
If there are only a few thousand that can afford certain schools so be it.
If your dc can't go to grammar so what?
If your state school is rubbish it will get better as it will be in special measure.
If your dc aren't bright so what? If the school you would like is full so what?
There have always been situations in education that weren't perfect, or others could have and you couldn't.
Why does it matter?
OK, well I suppose the obvious question is, do you have any children of your own and, if so, how old are they?
I agree with you entirely, and so both my children have just gone to the local school. But and it is a big but my entire family are teachers and so we know we can fill in any gaps in knowledge.
My dc are 22 18 and 9.
The older 2 went all through school but dd is second year into H.ed
My point is that my dc and all the others I know just chose a school and went, with the least possible fuss. We couldn't afford private and so went local state.
If you can afford private or are grammar then that too is fine as we are all different. The bit I don't understand is the people who want what they can't have.
I suppose none of us would be on this forum if it didn't matter to us and I've seen what some people can get if they only had a little knowledge of what is possible (not always but possible).... through scholarships, bursaries, discounts, moving house, church attendance, appeals, talent and determination. Most of ds1's state primary year group went to the local comp - in special measures 5 or 6 years ago, now rated 'good' but not so good really as only 3% (yes, you read that right - 3%) attained the EBacc last year - results bumped up by equivalent qualifications and soft subjects. However, none of the children at ds2's prep went to the comp that year even though most of them were in the catchment area and some of them couldn't actually afford private school fees. A third of the year group went back into state education (and a third got a scholarship, bursary or discount to another independent) and they all found a way to escape the comp...... with a little knowledge, talent (of the children), hard work and determination.
That's pretty much the way it is in Scotland. You go to your nearest primary and secondary. No grammars, no academies. Private school if you can afford it, but the vast majority go to their local schools, and there's very little parental angst.
I think people get het up because state provision is very patchy in the UK.
You might live close to a fabulouys school that will give you everything you dream of.
You might not.
You might be offered a school miles away. You might be offered a school that had terrible provision for SEN. You might be offered a school with a woeful standard of pastoral care...
As for private school, well, the vast vast majority of people can't afford it. And even though I use it myself I can see that it is utterly unfair that purely by dint of my bank balance I can choose where my DC go to school!
In general YANBU.
However it is horrendous in the areas where there is a huge lack of places and you often just cannot get into your nearest (or 2nd or 3rd nearest) school - absolutely bloody nightmare in London and many areas that are close to London.
I think all many of us want is a similar standard of education to the one we got in the state sector - but it seems very random whether you can get it in some areas. I am also concerned about a number of practical factors such as how full up will the school be (many London schools are creaking at the seams), will it offer pre and post school care (not something my DM or DMIL had to worry about), will it offer sports and music (provision varies enormously) and will my DC get a challenging enough education or be left to coast. If she should have SEN I would be choosing mainly based on support for that.
Basically if all schools were much the same it wouldn't be worth putting much thought in, no, but as a teacher I know they're not. Also options at 11 are affected by what you chose at primary - if you had a choice that is.
So people are criticised for worrying about schools and their choices by someone who has 2 children who have left school and one educated at home?
Move to Scotland - no fuss here.
Because most people want the best for their kids and get a bit fucked off if they can't get it?
In theory you are right, but in practice, you can't "put the genie back in the bottle" and the gap between the better and the less good schools in some areas is HUGE. If you are able, who wouldn't want to give their children the best possible start in life ?
I just fail to understand why people get so worked up about it.
Fair enough there are some issues in which it is understandable but for the majority it is wanting what others have, when you aren't in the same position yourself.
I find the worst side is those that object to others having the opportunity because they can't. Classic example grammar schools.
Ar your kids bright?
Do they currently have good jobs?
Have they reached their potential?
From what I can remember, you and your DH dont mind living on the breadline, in fact actually enjoy it. Preusmably you actively want that for your kids too.
What happens if they meet the love of their lives, and a potnetial spouse or partner doesnt want that or leave. Presumably that will not bother you either. You will think, good riddance, But your kids may not think that, and actively blame you for years or for life. Would that matter to you? Perhaps not.
I am not criticising others as I have had to choose schools for all of my dc at some point and it wasn't a choice I took lightly.
However, there was very little fuss and not really a lot of choice, the same as it is for most other people.
Not everyone can have the best for their dc and this has always been the case, throughout the history of the education systems we have had.
It is a waste of time imo making a huge fuss about something you can't have. Maybe I am just not entitled, I dunno.
My children range from 32yrs to 22 years and they had their first choice of career and did what they wanted to do purely because I did fuss over all those things. I am where I am because my parents fussed, and they were where they are because my grandparents fussed. It is hugely important and of course it matters! Education is vitally important and not something to be fobbed off with second rate.
My dc are all working and are happy.
I don't think they have fully reached their potential as they are still young.
We don't live on the breadline, in fact we are well off compared to some people. We have in the past though, not that I feel that has anything to do with education, moreover lifestyle choice.
I tend to find that people attract likewise and ds1 df is similar to him and not very materialistic.
So are you suggesting I should have made a fuss when our choices were limited in terms of the schools our dc could attend? Been annoyed and jealous of what choices others had that were better? Moaned about how we deserved the best as well?
They also have no hope of competing internationally. Mine are going to foreign countries and not paying, because they work there.
But yours may not or wont have that oppurtunity.
You are assuming that your kids will want what you and your husband do. But that is not fair on them. They may not, but they may. But you have not given them or left them or encouraged them with those choices.
They may not mind now. But they sure as heck may mind later. And guess who they are going to blame.
How do you know they have no chance of competing internationally? Not that I think they particularly will want to, but who knows.
I have encouraged all their choices and allowed them the freedom to make them, and doubt very much if they want what dh and I have.
I'm not sure what they will find the need to blame us for.
Due to cockups in education policy there are less school places than children in parts of London.
There are some streets that are not "in catchment" for any state school at all.
There are areas where "the local school" has been taken over by people with really strong religious views that they are trying to impose on all of the pupils.
Due to cuts, LEAs are loathe to let SEN kids get the statemented support they need.
The curriculum is being changed even as the children sit their mocks for next June's exams
If you are lucky enough to live in an area or have children unaffected by these problems, good luck to you - if I could make a living somewhere like that I'd move. But I cant.
And if we did all move to your area, your school would be as nadgered as ours are
I think you need to bear in mind that other countries now care a whole help more about the stadard of education in their countries than they used to. Consequently, that standard of education that those pupils are getting is rising compared to ours.
Pretty sure someone can link to some stats somewhere about this.
Your personal aspirations for education for children in this country are not very high are they?
I think many posts are talking at cross purposes to my OP, or I didn't make my rant clear, which is probably the case
I know this is happening and it is awful, this wasn't the fuss I was talking about. I would have been making a fuss under those conditions.
It was more a case of not understanding why people who have a very good offer want more and sometimes despise those who have better opportunities.
I am trying to understand but find it hard.
There are few opportunities for choice in our area and lots of satisfactory/ special measure schools, but they aren't many over subscribed. Nobody wants to live here, they all want to be in London.
I really wasn't talking about fuss made under the conditions you have mentioned, especially sen.
Because schools vary enormously.
Because being is special measures is no guarantee of improvement.
Because in many areas there are more children than school places and the thought that your DCs may not get a school place at all or be allocated a place miles away is very stressful.
Because most people want to do the best they can for their DCs.
I really don't see what is wrong with worrying about the above.
Of course my aspirations for education are high, my dd has some fantastic personal tutors and both me and dh are PG educated.
My ds have a Degree and A levels etc, good GCSE results.
I never said education wasn't important.
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