Teachers and recent pupils: how representative is Educating Yorkshire?

(70 Posts)
WhatWillSantaBring Wed 30-Oct-13 16:14:53

Genuinely just that really.

I fully admit that I have led a privileged and sheltered life, and my education was at private school throughout. I have also been watching Harrow (on Sky 1) and although I went to a much crapper very minor private school, and it was nearly 20 years ago (shit!), I still recognise huge chunks of that programme from my own education.

So for those in education (or recent leavers) how representative EY is of comprehensive education as a whole, as it was fundamentally different to my own education. I realise that it is very hard to generalise, and schools will vary enormously, but how much of your current or recent school do you recognise?

I have one and half DC at pre-school age, and no relatives/close friends with secondary age children, so I am genuinely curious.

(apologies if this thread has been done already but I couldn't find it on a search)

LynetteScavo Wed 30-Oct-13 16:19:21

I went to a secondary modern 25 years ago, and it was very much like EY, so I'm pretty sure there are a lot of schools like this out there today - I then went to an independent school, and it was very different. It was quite dull that the teachers were there to teach, and the pupils to learn. I quite enjoyed the antics of the other pupils.

(Having said that I happily send my DS to a comprehensive)

JustAnotherFucker Wed 30-Oct-13 16:24:47

I went to a private school and then a selective grammar for 6th form and I admit I have been shock at some of EY although the teachers seemed to be far nicer and have more passion than most of mine ever did.

DD tells me that its quite normal though and she attends a good/outstanding non selective academy where results are ok and above average for the city. She wasn't surprised at any of the goings on in Thornhill.

BettyBotter Wed 30-Oct-13 16:31:40

I have 2 dcs currently at a comprehensive school in Yorkshire and have asked them the same question. They say that school has almost no similarity to theirs in any way except some of the inter pupil banter. That said, nor do they have such a close relationship with their teachers.

That school is in a deprived area, previously doing badly (the one people tried to avoid their dcs going to), and the focus has been on certain 'interesting' pupils. I guess the experience of 90% of the other dcs and teachers who attend the school has no relation to what we see on screen either.

moldingsunbeams Wed 30-Oct-13 16:31:43

I went to two secondaries, one was very like EY but worse, the other was nothing like it.

sassytheFIRST Wed 30-Oct-13 16:41:03

I teach in a large, v mixed, semi-rural comp. I'd say EY resonates with me more for the quality of the teaching staff and the relationships with students than for the behaviour of students - poor in EY, esp in corridors etc. Our kids' behaviour can be tricky but is not as poor as we saw - swearing at staff = immediate isolation for e.g. Our Head is nothing like as hands-on (or effective??) as Mr Mitchell (though I suspect he is less involved with pupils in RL than it appeared).

Remember that it is a TV show and is thus edited to be interesting - kids sitting nicely, working quietly doesn't make good TV!

Alexandrite Wed 30-Oct-13 20:28:47

On other threads on Mumsnet about EY, people have asked their children who were at comprehensives to watch it and say how similar it is. The children said that they would never be allowed to behave like that and were quite shocked by the behaviour. I haven't seen the Harrow programme, but is it a no holds barred, warts and all sort of documentary like EY, where the programme makers have been allowed free access to show all the most shocking bits for entertainment? I do think any school could be edited to look bad in such a programme, but I suspect private schools wouldn't allow the negative bits to be shown.

Hulababy Wed 30-Oct-13 20:31:24

I taught in two secondaries. One was nothing like it at all. The other - well, the behaviour, etc was very similar tbh. It went into SM on all counts - main difference seemed to be that on EY the head/management were supporting of staff and pupils, unlike where I worked. I left teaching about 11 years ago or so now and would never return to secondary teaching ever!

17leftfeet Wed 30-Oct-13 20:34:03

Educating Yorkshire doesn't even represent thornhill, never mind comps in general

It's a tv show which gives a brief snapshot of a very small number of pupils

It would be boring if it showed well behaved children sitting nicely in class learning stuff

Dd played thornhill at netball the other week and the girls that played were excellent ambassadors for the school

VivaLeBeaver Wed 30-Oct-13 20:34:23

Dd says the behaviour in her school is fairly similar in some classes. Mainly in her form group and lessons like art, music, re where they're not in sets. In the more academic subjects dd is in top sets and she says everyone behaves.

I know in some of her lessons kids have sworn at teachers, refused to leave the class when told to, fist fights, etc. one of her classmates filmed a lesson on their mobile phone and it was like a riot, they'd posted it on YouTube. Everyone was running about screaming.

We used to have one of dd's friends live with us and she's one of the "naughty" kids at school. Thinks nothing of telling teachers to fuck off, walks out of school and the staff can't stop her.

mumofthemonsters808 Wed 30-Oct-13 20:51:29

My DD is in year 7 at our local academy, bearing in mind she has only been there six weeks she has witnessed the form teacher being told to "Fuck Off" and another pupil disrupting the lesson and then refusing to leave.

Biscuitsneeded Wed 30-Oct-13 22:12:23

Pretty realistic I'd say, as a teacher in a large comp in a bit of a backwater.

PurpleGirly Wed 30-Oct-13 22:30:40

Teacher at average northern comp. Many kids like those in EY (and lots is similar eyebrows). Also kids similar in ability to those in Harrow. We have kids who go to Oxbridge, kids who work in a factory and kids who don't work .. Ever. What the majority of kids would tell you is that they felt safe, were pushed for best grades and were supported. Most kids are happy ( as happy as teenagers can be). Some hate school some love it.

At a comprehensive that is what you get.

threepiecesuite Wed 30-Oct-13 23:29:36

Good post PurpleGirly. Totally agree.
I teach in an inner city deprived (bottom 5% of UK) comp.
Behaviour at our place is similar, and sometimes a hell of a lot worse. We were asked to do the show- but said no.
I'd say our grass roots staff (ie. not management) truly go the extra mile for kids every day. Relationships are excellent and staff care about kids' outcomes. Teaching comes low on the agenda after parenting, social work, mentoring etc.

WhatWillSantaBring Thu 31-Oct-13 09:39:55

Thanks for the answers! I realise that its a snapshot and will have been heavily edited but given that I think the Harrow programme was a pretty accurate snapshot of (my experience of) private school, I wondered if the same could be said of EY.

Watched the last episode last night (on planner) and was really impressed with the quality of the pastoral care given by the staff, which was probably over and above what I remember from our school. Though being a small, all girls private school, the behavioural issues were much more introverted and therefore probaby dealt with in a much more subtle way. (Think self-harming and anorexia rather than backchatting and violence)

HmmAnOxfordComma Thu 31-Oct-13 09:56:06

Obviously it was very heavily edited to show only the 'worst' bits, but those bits weren't made up, they were real.

Dh works in a comp which is (on paper) a much better school than Thornhill but says the behaviour is very similar.

It was very similar to the behaviour that I witnessed at my school in the 80s/90s ; though, as Viva says, not in top set lessons, but definitely in mixed ability lessons, corridors and lunch times.

I was petrified during and hated my time at school when not in setted lessons. I was actually scared. I know ds would be too and that is why he doesn't go to a school like that.

Agree with all pps that the staff all showed amazing care and pastoral support. Couldn't fault them. Still wouldn't want ds to go there.

Alexandrite Thu 31-Oct-13 10:14:02

I thought the same about the pastoral care. I went to a girls' grammar in the 80s and we had zero pastoral care. I could have done with some to be frank as I had problems at home.

Alexandrite Thu 31-Oct-13 10:14:40

Very impressed by the pastoral care at Thornhill

morethanpotatoprints Thu 31-Oct-13 10:18:30

It was very similar to the schools my dc have attended recently, except the teachers are obviously going out of their way in terms of their behaviour towards the pupils.
Unfortunately, ime in a school like this when the dc don't care the teachers tend to have a lot more apathy towards their roles and responsibilities. With exception to the Geography teacher who I believe would be like that without the cameras.

HmmAnOxfordComma Thu 31-Oct-13 10:24:56

Well, there's the thing. It is concerning that a school with behavioural issues can't always attract the very best staff.

I'm not saying that being good at behaviour management/pastoral care and excellent academic teaching to the gamut of ability are mutually exclusive; of course they're not: some teachers are very good at both.

But I do think that some excellent teachers just wouldn't want to have to deal with those kinds of issues and behaviours day in, day out and so would only choose to work in a school with a better discipline record.

It's like the argument that it's difficult to recruit specialist MFL and science and maths teachers these days. Well, yes, for some schools it is and for other schools, they have their pick of tens and tens of excellent applicants.

bruffin Thu 31-Oct-13 10:27:21

I have friends who had children at the essex school and heard sime of the back stories which were worse than what was actually portrayed.
But you are watching the behaviour that makes good television and not the everyday good behaviour.

LoofahVanDross Thu 31-Oct-13 16:44:59

I think the teachers on EY all deserve a medal. Some of the behaviours of the children were awful, but they never gave up on them. Which is something to be admired. And they got the results they wanted from some of the most difficult kids which is brilliant.

Saying that I would hate my dc to go to a similar school.

Talkinpeace Thu 31-Oct-13 20:12:54

DH goes to lots of schools.
Educating Yorkshire has been edited to the point of fiction.
The school itself is probably pretty normal, but normal peaceful classrooms don't generate viewing figures.

cory Fri 01-Nov-13 09:10:02

I watched the first episode with ds (Yr 9 of the local comprehensive) and he couldn't believe how long pupils could go on misbehaving without parents being involved and the big machinery being rolled out.

Yes, there are troubled pupils at his school who behave in similar ways to some of the ones on the programme. It would be odd if there weren't, considering that they have to take everyone, including children from criminal families, children from families going through horrendous times, families with serious problems of substance abuse etc.

But there is no way anyone in his school could get through over 100 instances of being reported to the Head before they even send for the parents.

The pastoral care at ds' school is excellent but they also have a very strong head who backs teachers up and reacts quickly if there is a problem.

cory Fri 01-Nov-13 09:16:50

Another point about recruiting teachers: even the ones who are excellent at both crowd management and academic teaching might try to avoid a school where they feel their colleagues were blase and had developed low expectations.

My mother taught for many years at a college where aspirations among the teachers were very, very low. It was soul destroying. She liked the pupils but hated going to work.

It's not just about the pupils and the daily struggle, it's about the atmosphere of the staff room.

One of the schools we visited when ds was going up to secondary clearly had very very disillusioned staff; it was apparent just from the 2 minute chats in the corridors that they did not expect their pupils to achieve and saw their job purely in terms of getting through the day as best they could. These were the people who were so badly organised they couldn't even arrange for somebody to be present in reception on visiting evening.

I don't blame them for having got that way. But I would rather clean out toilets than have to work with them.

DS1 (Y9) watched the whole series.

He says that in his school the relationship between teachers and pupils is much more formal than what was portrayed at Thornhill. He was shocked at the way the Thornhill students spoke to their teachers, and felt that the teachers backed down too often, not following through with threatened consequences.

He commented that he would find it difficult to concentrate and learn in an environment where there were so many distractions.

He attends a partially selective comprehensive in Watford. High proportion of pupils for whom English is not their first language, high proportion of pupils with SEN.

SirChenjin Fri 01-Nov-13 09:27:31

My elder 2 DCs are at a comprehensive in the central belt of Scotland - a mixed bag of pupils shall we say grin. They are amazed at what goes on at the Yorkshire school - apparently it bears little or no resemblance to what goes on at their school. The <ahem> cheeky minxes are dealt with much sooner in their school careers and the discipline in much stronger.

I've only watched Educating Yorkshire a couple of times, but the Head comes across as a laid back idiot, wandering about with his cup of coffee and wanting to be everyone's mate, while one of the Deputies appears to have just got out of his student bed and doesn't really seem to know what's going on. Really irritating. No wonder the ethos of the school appears casual.

cory Fri 01-Nov-13 09:31:06

Others seem to be seeing the same as me: yes, pastoral care is good, but there is no reason you cannot have excellent pastoral care combined with discipline. This head does seem to want to be everybody's mate. How much support does that really provide to those pupils who are at the receiving end of the disruptive ones?

Pooka Fri 01-Nov-13 09:39:42

EY is nothing like the comprehensive I went to many years ago, nor like the comprehensive dd attends, or others in our local area.

I watched with a mixture of awe at the pastoral care and shock at the behaviour and disruption. Then I did a bit of research, looked at their results, compared with the local comprehensives here (London leafy suburbs) and am blown away by how well the teachers do there at getting relatively good results in a historically difficult school/catchment.

The results at dd's comp are much better at A-C including English and maths, but the catchment is small and it's a quite affluent area so I would expect good results.

LordPalmerston Fri 01-Nov-13 09:41:19

please dont compare to your education if you left school last century

as a teacher this really annoys me - schools have changed SO MUCH

i would say pretty common of a perviously failing school in a dperived area - although remember a lot of the Cp issues would not have been mentioned - also bizarrely NOT much covered wrt non english speaking kids or cultural issues in a place like Dewsbury

LordPalmerston Fri 01-Nov-13 09:43:24

the pastoral care at Thornhill is NOT unusual - I laughed at the waxing lyrical about how hard the teachers worked - this is not unusual, by exam time teachers lose sleep over kids - the cajoling , the extra sessions, the breakfast revision, the calls home, the home visits, the trips to police stations, EVERYTHING to get the kids the education they deserve.

For those who think that teachers rock up and sat " open at page 56 and do the questions" this was a shock!

LordPalmerston Fri 01-Nov-13 09:44:04

and pastoral issues are NOT ingrained in poverty - the amount of shit middle class parents give their kids is unbelievable

LordPalmerston Fri 01-Nov-13 09:45:15

also remember is nigh on impossible to exclude a kid these days - so you cant go to brinkmanship all the time

TunipTheUnconquerable Fri 01-Nov-13 09:46:32

My kids aren't at secondary yet but I was at a primary school coffee morning the morning after this was on and there was a big group of mums gathered talking about how their dcs at the local comprehensive were saying it was exactly like their school confused

Our local secondary is a previously failing school in an area which is not particularly deprived according to any official measure but is very rural and traditionally doesn't put much value on education.

I haven't watched much of it. Should I be worried?

SirChenjin Fri 01-Nov-13 09:51:50

No - don't be worried, but do remember that EY has been edited to the nth degree to make it interesting and to generate debate (just as we're doing here) in order to promote viewing figures. If you really want to get a sense of what's going on in a school then I would recommend joining the Parent Council (not sure what the equivalent is elsewhere in the UK) - it's been a real, positive, eye opener for me.

cory Fri 01-Nov-13 09:53:37

LordPalmerston, noone is saying go to brinkmanship. But in the first episode there was a child who had already clocked up over 100 visits to the Head and they were only just getting round to the drastic measure of...actually speaking to his parent.

I have two children in the comprehensive system and I would expect to be contacted at a far earlier stage.

SirChenjin Fri 01-Nov-13 09:55:39

And just as an aside - DF's son is at a private school. In his first year there he had his blazer covered in Tippex, his school bag stolen and he was pushed down the stairs. The perpetrator was eventually excluded permanently, but it took a while. It's a small school, so they are unable to provide teachers for the Higher subjects he wants to take . All the local state schools link together and the pupils are bussed to other schools providing the subject choices they want. DF is paying £10K a year for the privilege. Private does not always equal better.

ReluctantBeing Fri 01-Nov-13 09:56:46

I teach in a school not too far from Thornhill. It's very realistic. Of course you don't see the good pupil working quietly, but that would be boring. What you saw on EY is exactly what you would see in most schools.

SirChenjin Fri 01-Nov-13 10:31:06

I disagree. I'm not a teacher but I have friends who are teachers in Scottish comprehensives, teens who attend a very socially diverse school, and friends whose children attend other high schools. It's definitely not realistic, according to them. I'm on the Parent Council of our high school, and again, EY is not familiar from my experiences there.


Alexandrite Fri 01-Nov-13 10:39:07

One of the pupils said to the head that he was scared of him. So he must have been reasonably strict. Maybe we were only shown the matey bits

ReluctantBeing Fri 01-Nov-13 10:40:47

The parts shown on the programme won't be the parts that a visitor to a school sees.

SirChenjin Fri 01-Nov-13 10:48:07

Of course not - but it will be the part that pupils and teachers see, and the teachers and pupils I know look like this hmm or confused at the idea that it's indicative of comprehensive secondary schools across the UK

HmmAnOxfordComma Fri 01-Nov-13 10:50:27

As I already said, they only showed the very extreme examples of behaviours.

I still stand by my point that it's very scary to go to school and be intimidated by being pushed at in the corridors, seeing teachers and other pupils sworn at, seeing fellow students have their heads stamped on on the floor and all the rest. These things all happened and do happen in many, many schools. A child shouldn't have to be scared at school - we wouldn't accept a workplace for adults where other people behaved like that, would we?

ReluctantBeing Fri 01-Nov-13 10:54:59

I've worked in several comprehensives across the country and I would say that EY is pretty normal. I have worked in some dodgy areas though...

SirChenjin Fri 01-Nov-13 10:57:07

But they also don't happen in many, many schools.

I'm not diminishing your experience Hmm - it sounds awful, and yes, I completely agree that it wouldn't be tolerated in the workplace - but there are many, many schools where discipline is maintained. It just grates that private schools are generally presented in a positive light whereas state schools are usually shown to be poorly run with low levels of attainment and discipline by badly behaved pupils.

Ilovemyrabbits Fri 01-Nov-13 10:59:22

DD is 12 and attends a secondary school in Yorkshire. It's a good comp with a great reputation, and it has mixed intake covering different socio-economic groups and ethnicities. She says her school has some incidents like those shown in the programme, but not many of the teachers are as nice and they don't even know their head teacher. In her 2 years at the school, she's rarely seen him and never been spoken to by him.

I love how some people put the Head of this school down and say he's an idiot. He has a staff who work with him as a team, staff who genuinely seem to respect him and back him up. That's not easy in any management team. He has time for the kids and they seem to respect him on the whole. He hasn't had any child being rude to him directly. All the children seemed to show him respect. He's raised the results in a struggling school from appalling to more than acceptable. His staff seem relaxed and happy, as far as they can, and they go the extra mile. I have a great deal of respect for the man.

I do think that some people have a very hallowed view of how education should work and have no idea of what kind of children teachers have to deal with these days and the limited constraints they have to work within. Some of these kids in Thornhill have horrid home lives. Some of them have so little chance of success in life, but seeing teachers treating them with respect and helping them to achieve, that has to be a good thing, doesn't it?

HmmAnOxfordComma Fri 01-Nov-13 11:02:19

I agree with that, and the timing of the Harrow programme was clearly unfortunate/deliberate?

It is wrong if the perception of all state schools is skewed by programmes like these, but really, I don't particularly care about individual or groups of schools' reputations; but I do care about students having to go to school and be scared (which as I said can be the case even in schools which are on paper 'better' schools than Thornhill).

Alexandrite Fri 01-Nov-13 11:02:44

Ofsted reports seem to always say whether children feel happy and safe now, which they base on pupil and parent feedback. Obviously that wouldn't have been the case when we were at school, but now it should be reflected in the ofsted if children don't feel safe

LordPalmerston Fri 01-Nov-13 11:03:13

Did they get good results compared to their stats? Thats the q

SirChenjin Fri 01-Nov-13 11:18:54

Hmmm - I completely agree that no child should be scared to go to school, absolutely. However, I also care about the perception of state schools in the media (I don't see the 2 as being mutually exclusive), especially when there are teachers across the UK working extremely hard to provide the best education they can for their pupils on limited budgets (no private school fees to draw upon there).

To present state schools as being synonymous with low attainment, poor quality of teaching and appalling levels of behaviour is not helpful, and doesn't reflect the great work that does go on - but that wouldn't make good TV I suppose sad

HmmAnOxfordComma Fri 01-Nov-13 11:30:57

It was a shame we didn't see much of the more academic and engaged students.

I don't believe in naming individual students or staff on a public forum but there were plenty of both I would have liked to have seen more of.

Alexandrite Fri 01-Nov-13 11:32:02

Agreed SirChenjin

Talkinpeace Fri 01-Nov-13 12:07:17

Just a quick point regarding the pupil where they did not get the parent involved.

There will be one heck of a back story there.
State schools know that with certain families, if you push them too hard the kid just stops coming to school and roams the streets getting into trouble.
There are also parents who cannot come into the school for various reasons

Also, state schools indeed try desperately not to permanently exclude pupils because that way prison lies
they are getting much more imaginative with the use of fixed term exclusions to PRUs (which the school has to fund out of its budget share by the way)
and PRUs are being run better than the cages they used to be.

As per the grammar school thread - there were some really unpleasant people saying that they did not care what happened to disruptive kids. Which is incredibly short sighted and blinkered.
We may not want to deal with them, but we have to accept that somebody will, funded out of our taxes.

MiaowTheCat Fri 01-Nov-13 12:46:16

Fairly normal from what I've seen at the upper end of primaries feeding into the secondaries in some of the more "interesting" parts of town. Obviously they've picked a fairly small and "television-interesting" group of kids to focus on (although they did focus on the school council lad in the first programme who seemed to be one who had his head fairly well screwed on) and same with the staff - from the number who obviously consented to be filmed the school appears to have a smaller staffing number than bloody Waterloo Road!

WhatWillSantaBring Fri 01-Nov-13 14:08:24

I wish I'd seen more of the series (I came to it late) - as Lord P said earlier, people shouldn't be surprised at the pastoral care, but the point is, I was! I think there is an AWFUL lot that middle little Englanders don't know and understand about education at the moment, basing their experiences on last century, their grammars and private schools. Fact: I have a former friend who has decided not to have children based solely on the fact that she and her DH cannot afford private education.

EY and the grammar school thread have genuinely changed my understanding about current secondary education in this country and although I think the discipline issues seen in EY are scary, it is really encouraging and fabulous for the teaching profession to see some of the extra emotional work that they put in.

Lord P - very very aware the mc parents give their children a whole world of shit as well, but I suspect the type of shit is subtly different (and therefore the reaction / behavioural traits from the DC can be quite different).

I can also understand why as a teacher you might not get a parent involved - I'm guessing that you (as teachers) start being able to read/predict parental behaviour pretty quickly, and learn how to spot the ones that would do more harm than good in such a situation.

feelingood Fri 01-Nov-13 14:19:33

Yes very similar to a school i have taught in.

Every school has its own 'personality' if you like which is influenced by the cathement areas it serves and the staff of the school. This result in schools that are very different in ethos, standards and outcomes.

Ilovegeorgeclooney Fri 01-Nov-13 16:37:12

Nothing like the inner-city, very deprived school I teach at but then we are in the south and very multi-cultural. However I think the dedication of the staff is typical.

LordPalmerston Sat 02-Nov-13 01:04:04

The deputy says in thd guardian article that they wanted more academic kids on it more too.

FlabbyAdams Sat 02-Nov-13 01:08:48

I have loved watching EY and have just started to watch the 1st series Education Essex on E4 on a Thursday evening.

I have to say I went private for a a few years (minor unheard of now closed school) and then a comp. EY is very simialr to what my school days at my comp were like. I left school in 1988.

So I am guessing that its pretty similar tbh or not too far off the mark although like what has already been said - the daily mundane stuff wont make it onto TV.

curlew Sat 02-Nov-13 01:18:05

I asked my ds -and he said that there are kids like that in his school, but he and his mates wouldn't make good telly. He said "Who would want to watch "Robert and Callum are in their maths lesson. At lunchtime, they are going to philosophy club. Tomorrow, they have an away football match, so they will need to get their homework done at lunchtime"

sashh Sat 02-Nov-13 07:39:36

I disagree. I'm not a teacher but I have friends who are teachers in Scottish comprehensives, teens who attend a very socially diverse school, and friends whose children attend other high schools.

Scotland has a different education system, different exams/qualifications, junior and secondary are different years to England. I believe (but tell me if I'm wrong) the funding is also different.

How can you claim this is not representative with so many differences?

What saddened me was how many of the girls ended up going to college to do hair and beauty. There was aspiration in terms of getting GCSEs, but not much challenge and push to do more with their lives past formal education. They seemed happy for all these reasonable bright, articulate girls to go into a traditionally female, low-paid career path.

Agree that the Scottish system is very different, and so not comparing like with like.

SirChenjin Sat 02-Nov-13 10:26:39

"How can you claim this is not representative with so many differences?"

The differences you describe are to do with the structure of the education system. Some teenagers, however, behave the same north of the border (or rather, would do if they are allowed to get away with it), teachers face the same problems, and the same social problems exist. We're really not that different wink

SirChenjin Sat 02-Nov-13 10:28:06

And I'm speaking as someone whose school career spanned both England and Scotland.

curlew Sat 02-Nov-13 10:38:24

"What saddened me was how many of the girls ended up going to college to do hair and beauty. There was aspiration in terms of getting GCSEs, but not much challenge and push to do more with their lives past formal education."

I suppose we don't really know that. The school gets good results and has a good OFSTED- so there must have been other kids doing more academic-y things. But see my ds's comment below!

FlabbyAdams Sat 02-Nov-13 11:43:20

Whats wrong with Hair and Beauty. Most beauty courses have a level 3 A&P aspect. People do tend to look at Hair and Beauty as "bimbo " trades and it really pisses me off because the level of training required is not basic.

Its also a trade for life. Also I read somewhere recently that there is more job satisfaction with work/home balance in trades such as hair and beauty above professional careers such as law and medicine because they are easier for women to fit into family life later on and career progression is big with the explosion in this type of business and the ability to become self employed.

TBH - people that go onto college to study at a similar level lots of other course will leave without a trade or skill into anything and end up with a career of doing what ever comes their way. That concerns me more.

I am not a Beautician or Hairdresser btw.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with hair and beauty. Don't assume prejudice where there is none.

Except for the girl who wanted to be cabin crew and Hannah in the last episode who got better grades than expected, it seemed it was the only thing they were going on to do.

It's just so stereotypical, and they could have done other things such as retail, hospitaity or leisure, let alone predominantly male (and better paid) trades such as plumbing and engineering.

soul2000 Sat 02-Nov-13 13:25:32

Hannah is a bright girl who was let down by having to go to Thornhill. The reason i say that is that Hannah is the type of girl who will do just about the same as the others when she is capable of so much more.
In a academic school Hannah would probably have achieved a bunch of A grades
being driven on by the other pupils. Hannah is capable of much more academic work, sadly she will drift until she is about 28 or so and then realize that she is very bright. I know many people like Hannah and its a sad indictment that in some schools certain pupils potential is not harnessed.

maddy68 Sat 02-Nov-13 14:06:14

I would say that educating you're shire is a fairly typical example of most of the schools I have taught in

Scoutfinch1 Sat 02-Nov-13 15:26:36

I went to a comp in Yorkshire (only left 5 years ago so pretty recent) I was not shocked or surprised by any of the pupils behaviour and if anything I thought it was pretty tame if that was the worst that they could find for tv. The head teacher is much more involved than any of ours every were though. I'm not sure if it is representative but there certainly are schools like it and much worse.

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