2a,2b,2a SAT results

(55 Posts)
Bongobaby Sat 03-Jul-10 10:50:17

I'm confused, my 7 year old had his SAT results
back yesterday. But I don't understand if he
has done ok or not. And what 2a,2b and 2a
means? He has a Reading age of 9.5 I take
it that's an age thing is it? And spelling age 8.8.
Can anyone break it down a bit more in laymans
terms!!! Confused!!!

Feenie Sat 03-Jul-10 10:56:45

Didn't the results have information accompanying them?

They should explain that 2b is the expected level for children at the end of Y2.

2a is above this, and 2c below.

The reading and spelling ages which you have been given don't have to be reported legally, so are extra info from your school. They are beyond your ds's actual age, so he clearly reads and spells well!

activate Sat 03-Jul-10 11:00:06

If he has a reading and spelling age that high then I would've expected his literacty score to be higher

I would ask the teacher why their assessment is 2a - it may be a comprehension thing (remembering that the highest grade they give at this level is a 3)

I would say he is doing very well though so wouldn't worry about anything

activate Sat 03-Jul-10 11:02:16

2b is national average expected level at end KS1
4b is national average expected level at end of KS2

each year they are expected to go up 2 sub-levels

hence from 2b at the end of the next year they should get a 3c (2b - 2a - 3c)

then the end of y4 a 3a (3c - 3b - 3a)

does that make sense

GiddyPickle Sat 03-Jul-10 11:11:24

activate - I never understood the 2 sub levels thing per year. It can't be 2 sub levels every year can it?:
If you start on 2b in Year 2 and go up 2 sub levels per year by Year 3 that's 3c, by Year 4 its 3a, by Year 5 its 4b and so by Year 6 it would be 5c.

So 2 sub levels per year would be much higher than a 4b at the end of Year 6.
I am only asking as DS only went up one sub level last year and I was horrified but told that the 2 sub level thing was incorrect???

Its all very confusing.

activate Sat 03-Jul-10 11:14:04

oh sorry I did it wrong I think the numbers count as a sub-level without the sub-division so

Y2 = 2b
Y3 = 3
Y4 = 3b
y5 = 4
y6 = 4b

Feenie Sat 03-Jul-10 11:16:41

"I would ask the teacher why their assessment is 2a - it may be a comprehension thing (remembering that the highest grade they give at this level is a 3)"

Not true, activate - there is no ceiling on teacher assessment, and exceptionally bright children may well be assessed at level 4, although it is unusual.

Children are expected to progress an an average rate of 1 and a half sublevels. Two sublevels would be classed as good progress. (Think about it - if a 2b child made progress of what you say is an 'expected' rate of 2 sub-levels per year, they would be a 5c in Year 6 - far above an average rate of progress.)

So, avearge child (as if they exist):
Y2 - 2b
Y3 - between 2a/3c
Y4 - 3b
Y5 - 3a/4c
Y6 - 4b

emptyshell Sat 03-Jul-10 14:16:26

Reading and spelling age Xyears.Xmonths - straightforward enough.

The sublevels go C > B > A... B is slap bang in the middle of a level, level 2 being the "expectation" at year 2.

Teacher assessment = the teacher's view of how your child does as a general rule, versus how they did on the actual assessment tasks which are a one-off assessment of how they did on a particular day (helps to bear in mind if you've got a kid who is weaker in tests, or, like I was at school, annoyingly good in tests).

The other expectation is two sub-levels a year progress. So if they leave a year as a 2c, they'll be expected to end the following year a 2a.

HOWEVER - I'll put that in caps just for emphasis - moving from Year 2 to Year 3 there's quite often a "drop" in results with kids not making this two sub levels - because of how it is to get a level 3 in KS1 compared to KS2, and the move to the more formal style optional tests at the end of Y3... so don't worry too much next year basically - it's pretty well known that year 3 dips a bit as the goalposts get moved! Also kids have years they lag back a bit then suddenly get a woosh on - but the Govt seems to forget that nice fact at times!

The other bit that might be useful is that the Y6 SAT results never return sublevels - just 3/4/5 from markers. Some schools split them up themselves into c/b/a bands before giving the results to the kids - but they just go back as a pure whole level.

activate Sat 03-Jul-10 14:21:58

Feenie - not what we've been told at governors meetings - although this is from a couple of years back so might have changed. used to be that

at KS2 sats they can't go beyond a level 5
at KS1 sats they can't go beyond a level 3

assessment they can of course - but not the back up SAts paper

emptyshell Sat 03-Jul-10 14:35:56

Can confirm (I mark KS2 tests) they can't get higher than a level 5 on those ones.

primarymum Sat 03-Jul-10 15:30:18

Feenie did say that " there is no ceiling on teacher assessment" rather than "there is no ceiling on SATS level". ( although two of my year 5 boys sat the KS3 SATs level 6 test as the KS2 ones are too easy for them!)

GiddyPickle Sat 03-Jul-10 15:47:47

I have to say we were categorically told the same - it is totally impossible for a Year 2 to get higher than a level 3. They can't even get a 3c or a 3a, if they get above a 2a then its merely referred to as a "3" with no subdivision at that age. This was from the Head Teacher at a parents meeting about SATS and that is exactly what was said.

We were also told that the school regards level 3 as being "very very rare" and only awarded to exceptionally clever children (although I was a bit hmm at this comment because I know other schools where they aren't exactly handed out like Smarties but they aren't especially rare either) Especially as more than a third end up with level 5's in Year 6, I don't understand how so few get Level 3 in Year 2.

Maybe different schools interpret or moderate the process and the results differently. Our school was graded outstanding by Ofsted quite recently so I am guessing they are doing everything as they should.
Some parents were muttering darkly about it all being done to massage the Value Added figures a bit (children start the school ahead of the national average because its a very middle class type of school so the value added can take a hammering unless the children continue to stay above average which not all do - whereas going from 2b in Year 2 to 5c in Year 6 does help the figures and many suspect Year 2 results are kept articfically low for this reason whereas in Year 6, the higher grade is selected. Far more of them get Level 5's in Year 6 than ever get Level 3 in Year 2).

We don't have the results out for this Year yet (they hand them out suspicioulsy close to the end of term to curb the influx of anxious parents all wanting meetings with the Head) so we'll have to wait and see but it does seem that these things are not as totally standard as perhaps many think.

PixieOnaLeaf Sat 03-Jul-10 15:58:03

Children can be assessed as working about Level 3 in Year 2 - the SATs papers, however, cannot assess this, so it must be teacher based assessment.

Feenie Sat 03-Jul-10 16:46:58

No, Pixie, there mst definitely are level 3 assessment papers for Year 2.

Whichever posters have been told it is impossible to achieve above level 3 in Y2, you've been misinformed.

There is no test paper to assess over level 3 in Year 2, but the level now reported is a teacher assessment, and is reached using many, many sources of evidence, a small part of which are the tests.

There is no ceiling on children's learning in Y2 or Y6, and nor should there be. Children need to be taught according to their attainment, and if they are a top level 3 and ready to begin on level 4 concepts in Y2, so be it. We occasionally have one or two children who are ready for this, and have been teacher assessed as a level 4 at the end of key stage 1. Similarly, we have a few children who are teacher assessed as level 6 in Year 6, even though the tests only assess levels 3 to 5.

GiddyPickle Sat 03-Jul-10 19:30:49

Not impossible Feenie but very rare (although as I say I have my doubts as an awful lot seem to manage to get level 5 in Year 6 despite not getting level 3 in Year 2 and an awful lot of local schools dish out more level 3's than ours despite having near identical results for Year 6 SATS).

I did wonder what they would do if confronted with true genius (ie a child with the maths ability of a 14 year old at age 6). Would he or she still only get the maximum of a level 3? I didn't like to ask though in case the teachers thought I was delusional and referring to my own child instead of just being curious.

basildonbond Sat 03-Jul-10 20:44:01

it's definitely possible for a y2 child to get level 4 - both my boys did (ds1 got 4 for literacy, ds2 got 4 for maths) - no-one mentioned anything about it being exceptionally rare - just got the levels in the end of year reports

PixieOnaLeaf Sat 03-Jul-10 22:28:29

That's what I said, Feenie?

Feenie Sat 03-Jul-10 22:53:07

You said that the Y2 test papers cannot assess level 3, but they most certainly can!

PixieOnaLeaf Sat 03-Jul-10 22:59:00

Ah, I see the problem, I put 'about' and I meant 'above'!

Feenie Sat 03-Jul-10 23:43:17

Ahhhh. smile

SparkyLou Wed 07-Jul-10 17:32:16

Could I add some sanity to the Level 3 debate? A really useful way of thinking about what Level 3 means is that if your child is given a Level 3 at the end of Year 2, they should be able to go straight into a Year 5 classroom at the start of the next year and work quite comfortably at the level of those 9 and 10 year olds. I haven't come across many Y2 who can do that.

Cortina Wed 07-Jul-10 17:37:38

Thing is I've seen the level 3 English papers, they are not difficult? A slightly above average year one student could have a good crack at one, my DS included (no genius). I would expect a 9 or 10 year old to be able to do one of these papers comfortably? Or am I missing something?

Feenie Wed 07-Jul-10 17:39:49

Yes, you are missing something. I suggest you also look at the mark scheme aswell as the paper - the level of developed answers for inference and deduction is very challenging for most 7 year olds.

Feenie Wed 07-Jul-10 17:41:36

And yes, an average Y5 class could do them comfortably - because that's the level they are working at! The Y5 teacher's job is to stretch and challenge them those average children to a top level 3/4c - and beyond, in some cases.

Cortina Wed 07-Jul-10 17:43:14

Haven't checked out in detail, but it didn't look terribly tough. Will take a closer look. Haven't looked at any Maths, now that would scare me...

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