Opinion wanted on suitable punishments

[happymerryberries]

I'm soooooooo bored I have been driven to reading the Times Ed website...a dangerous thing to do . they are having a discussion about suitable punishments. Some schools have now banned staff from getting children to clean desks if they are caugt defacing them (in secondary), as this is thought to 'demean' the child.

Views people please and stop me from being so bored!

[GeorginaA]

Bollocks to that - and anyway, isn't that more of a consequence than a punishment (which is a Good Thing [tm]). You deface a desk, you are responsible for making it like new again.

I personally think (outside of school) instead of fines for littering, people should be made to spend a day picking up litter too... but that's a whole other rant...

[GeorginaA]

Oh meant to say, as a small child I crayoned over a table at home. My dad made me (with supervision of course) sand the whole thing down before he revarnished. Never did it again

[spidermama]

My ds3 scribbled black felt pen all over the stripped, sanded and waxed sitting room door. I think'll I'll get him to re-sand it. Great idea. It's his third offence.

[Freckle]

Does that mean that no one should clean anything because cleaning is per se demeaning? Oh great - no more housework for me!!!

Sorry, but that's just another load of pc claptrap. Who else is going to clean it and, in that case, aren't they being demeaned too? Or should the desk stay defaced?

Action and consequence, something I try hard to instil in my boys every day. Every action you take has a consequence and you should be prepared to accept that consequence.

[happymerryberries]

You are all backing up my feelings on this. What better way to get a message through about poor behaviour than to set a totaly relevant punishment, say littler picking for dropping litter?

[Yorkiegirl]

Message withdrawn

[Caligula]

Oh FFS how can it possibly be demeaning? Do they actually understand what the word demeaning means? Demeaning is when you force a small child who has just vomited or wet themselves by accident, to clean up the mess as a punishment. Cleaning up mess deliberately and wilfully made by a child old enough to know better, can't reasonably be described as demeaning.

What were there preferred, "undemeaning" punishments? Forcing the child to go and buy a new pair of trainers?

[happymerryberries]

God knows! What I keep wondering is why it isn't considered demeaning for the cleaners to clear up the wilfully made mess for a minimum wage

[Nightynight]

Its pretty demeaning for the desk to be scribbled on

[JulieF]

I defaced a desk when at school and was made to spend breaktimes sanding it down. To be honest I was relieved as I had been terrified my parents would be involved. The only reason they were not is because I had previously been a model pupil, this was totally out of character and when asked who the culprit was I had stood up in front of the whole class and confessed

Soon there will be no deterrants and kids will run riot.

A school dh works in has just introduced a new consequence system with the most serious being the entire day (with loo breaks only kids have to take a packed lunch in) being spent copying from the school hymn book in isolation. All the parents are backing it as discipline was previously dire.

[happymerryberries]

Julie F, snap, I did the same thing and was caught and punished in the same way. I was also a real goodie goddie!

[Starmummy]

What do you think abou this for a punishment then? DS (9yo) got out of bed and broke down crying about 5 weeks before Christmas. Upon discussion it turns out he felt guilty about writing s**t on the outside wall when he was at summer playscheme (he goes to the same place every second week for youth club). He said X made him do it!

TBH I was really shocked. I thanked him for being honest, said I was disapointed with that peice of behaviour and sent him back to bed whilst I thought about what to do and say. This is the first time I have had to deal with a serious offence.

After discussion with DH (who had no idea at all what to do and I def. felt procrastination was not the order of the day) I rang the youth club leader and told him what had happened. I explained that I wanted DS to take responsibility for his actions and as such could he arrange for DS and myself to go down to youth club and clean the wall. The youth club leader was very supportive and said it happens quite often and most parents dont care!

Anyway DS and I turned up 30 mins before youth club, with a bucket and soap and a scrubbing brush (made DS buy scrubbing brush and soap with his pocket money). I held the torch and Ds scrubbed. He accepts that he had done wrong and that he had to accept the consequences of his actions. As it happened the other child turned up and asked what we were doing, DS told him and the child at least had the grace to slink off looking v embarrassed!

I do think Ds telling me was prompted by the thought of Christmas (lol) and he was unhappy that I didnt tell the other boys mother, I explained that was between that boy, his concience and his parents.

Do you think I did the right thing? DS hasnt appeared mentally scared from such action (as if!!) and I feel he learnt a valuable lesson.

[Tortington]

i think you are indeed a star mummy

[helsy]

While we're on appropriate punishments and sorry to hijack, anyone know how to deal with hitting, banging doors and spitting? Dd1 (aged 5)is feisty normally but she goes too far on occasions and spat at me this morning, so I've said she can't go to friend's birthday party this weekend BUT I hate her missing parties as I don't want her to be left out and spitting or hitting back aren't options for me. Any ideas?

[Nightynight]

hmb and Julie
thank goodness Im not the only school goodiegoodie on this site!

[Starmummy]

Thank you .

I was really worried that MN's may have thought and may still think that I was ott, but I tried really hard to get the right balance IMHO. I didnt tell hardly anyone what DS had done because I was so embarrassed. I didnt know DS knew the s* word! And to write on the wall, oh the shame is engulffing me as I think about it now

[binkie]

helsy, I think for a 5yo the general idea is that sanctions have to be immediate - so missing a party the following weekend is too remote. And imagine if she gets herself up that day and makes you breakfast in bed and you still have to say no, you spat on Tuesday, it's no good you can't go.

A good idea is to spend some time, maybe with her even?, planning a list of sanctions: time out, favourite toy taken away for period of time, miss favourite TV prog, no pudding, lines ... so that you're never caught out and find yourself threatening something you don't want to follow through with.

[mushrooom]

hmb, if cleaning the graffiti isn't allowed, what punishment are they given instead? Or aren't they punished? Who does clean it off? Isn't it equally "demeaning" for them? Or doesn't the discussion go into that?

[homemama]

Starmummy, I think you should be very proud of how you handled the situation and that you're bringing your son up to be so respectful.

When I was 8mths pg and on break duty, I caught one of my 9yr olds pulling the drain pipe off the wall. When I challenged him, he told me to "F off you fat fing cow" - his mother's response was, "well you know what boys are like"!!!!!
I was very but also at such a response.

[Starmummy]

Gosh! How horrid for you .

I am in awe of anybody who teaches. I just dont know how you keep sane with amount of anti-social behaviour that goes on even from some smaller children. You have no opportunities to instill discipline or even to punish effectively.

A huge heartfelt thank you from me and lots of others I'm sure to our brave teachers.

[homemama]

Thanks Starmummy, but I do get paid!
And many more kids do make it all worthwhile.

[happymerryberries]

I've just come home from our sports day, which was bloody magic!

The kids were so good and put so much effort into it, they were astounding. It is days klife this that make you realise that it is a privelage to work with kids. Sheer magic!

(that and my classes just got ace GCSE modular results and KS3 SATs! )

[homemama]

Well done HMB!
Pat on the back for you and them!
End of year, when they've all worked so hard for tests etc. always makes me feel all proud and nostalgic towards them. Come Oct half term however......

[Tortington]

for a good punishment you will neeed 3 things

short piece of string
chimney
little toes.
job done

[helsy]

Thanks Binkie. I'm going to try that.