Mumsnet Talk

Yet I am increasingly finding that most of the people I know who have chosen private have done so because their DC just couldn't cope either socially or keep up academically in the local state schools (or a mixture of both!)- so they're individually hand-held, spoon-fed and tutored in the private sector- then emerge ready to grab those limited places from perhaps more clever but marginally less 'graded up' state school kids?

What is a Russell Group Uni..........?
I havent ever heard of such a thing

I was state school educated and went to a Russel Group Uni - when it used to be called redbrick

I understand, but have no robust research to back it up, that the majority of undergrad first year drop-outs are Private School graduates

(could be made-up to make poor middle-england parents feel better of course)

They get better grades and are better prepared for those universities. But it's not impossible for your child to get in. Far from it.

Going back to (haven't looked for research to back it up but based on anecdotal evidence from nephews and niece) private school graduates are used to being 'pushed'. Universities don't push so ifficulties ensue

dh went to a RGU, he's rough as bunt toast he is.

however i think regarding the op - if this is a fact (is it? prove it!) then why is this a surprise

if i spent thousands edumicating my kids - i would expect nothing less

you pay for the education to get the best education - not to make the best out of what you have - which is entirely different.

so privately taught kids goon to the best unis - whoopsie doo - quell surprise.

<quietly applauds Custardo>

Are Russell Group full of private kids? Weren't when I was there. And that was in the days when O levels were hard.

Russell Group unis (the 'elite') are desperate to fill their places with state school kids. The biggest missing factor in my humanities subject is independent reading. Private schools give their kids inordinate resources, but it shouldn't be impossible for most families to take a step in that direction.

please feel free to applaud me loudly

DS, who's just left Warwick (with a 2:1, sorry for the proud mum moment)reckons the proportion of private school pupils there is lower than average.

DD on the other hand is at Exeter, which is not a Russell Group university, but has just made it into the top 10, (a fact which they are pointing out at every opportunity just now) - the public school level there seems much higher.

<<<Applaudes Custardo>>>

I went to a Redbrick Uni (In fact, I went to two - MSc in one, BSc in the other) and went to a pretty piss poor school in a pretty piss poor area too...

But, I agree wholeheartedly with Custardo's post

Rusty - Exeter has always had a 'posh' reputation though...

My ds1 is state educated but is prob going to Cambridge...
It's as Custy says -
My DP was privately schooled yet screwed up a levels and went to Preston Poly and did a physics degree on their trust that he would cope.
He did but his parents were cross at their lack of return...

Exeter has always been full of people who didn't get into Oxford or Cambridge.

Apparently, it's Sutton Group Universities that are now the truly elite thing. There's only about five of them.

Well my diametrically opposed point of view is that independent school children are generally much brighter, so it's entirely natural that they should fill the majority of the spaces in the better universities. The brighter children need to be in an atmosphere which encourages and enables learning, well away from the asbo-and-knife-gang infested state schools.

No they're not brighter - they're just more fortunate in that they have parents who can afford independent education fees

<grits teeth>

Oh, I know, Haribo - DH (Cathedral School) and I (state grammar-turned-comprehensive)were both there 30 years ago when it was full of the 'green wellie brigade' (For those of you under the age of about 30, normal wellies used to be black, only posh people had green ones)

I never applied to Oxford or Cambridge though...

Some may be brighter,some not.But many parents scrimp and save to send their children to private school,they aren't all rich.If ds1 dosen't get into Grammar we will either Home Ed again for a few years and then send him privately or send him privately earlier depending on our financial state which isn't great at present.
I had never heard of a Russell Group uni.

Quattro, what you on about?

It's not just intelligence though.

Parental input (financially, obviously, but socially too..)

I'm currently training as a teacher and am spending time in quite a few different schools.

In the best school (private), GCSEs are seen as a means to an end.. they get you into Sixth form, which gets you to Uni, which gets you a career...

In the worst school (a sec. Mod), GCSEs are seen as the end of the line... When the students (who appear to be nothing more than a bugbear to half the teachers there) stop giving the teachers hassle. There is absolutely no ambition.

Now, I appreciate I'm talking about my collective knowledge of, errr.... 4 schools so I'm hardly an expert, but it's not just about intelligence - it's about opportunitity and drive and ambition and sometimes, state schools just don't offer that.

For the record, I don't actually believe that independently educated children are brighter.

But it is no more ridiculous a proposition than the OP's assertion that all independently educated children are being independently educated because they can't keep up socially or academically.

<reductio ad absurdum>

The only generalisation that can apply to independently educated children is that their parents are on the whole wealthier than those of state educated children.

many parents may well "scrimp and save" but they are capable of "scrimping and saving" around a £15K a year for one child which makes them fairly rich, even if they find it a struggle. So the pity ploy doesn't work

My ds is very bright.

Threads like this really piss me off. What's wrong with trying to get a decient education for my child where he's not bullied for being a geek?

Tis not my fault they abolished state grammar schools. It's not his either.