problem is when there was a teaching shortage, the government pushes through new recruits with golden handshakes, fast tracking those with degree subjects in shortage areas - just because you've got a degree doesn't make you good teaching material on its own, its not just having subject knowledge but also how to impart that to children. This 5 year check is part of dealing with this problem.

I had a student teacher in my class once and i believed she wasn't making the grade. When I tried to convey this to her tutor at her college I was told that she was on a continuum of teaching abilities, and was not completely incompetent so not to get my knickers in a twist.

I really agree, well put Janeite!

Qualifications plus consistency plus common sense plus charisma plus competence = the most effective teachers methinks. Take any one of those out of the equation and things start to wobble.

I don't know enough about primary school teaching to say really. I think with secondary it depends on the school. My previous school had a much lower achievement profile and I could probably have managed without my degree. Although you could argue that those children deserve better than teachers who are managing. Perhaps having access to more subject specialists would also raise the pupils levels of attainment.

In my current school I use my degree on a daily basis and I am having to do a second degree to keep up. My students respect the fact that I zm a subject specialist. I teach the grammar stream on every year group and have to constantly update my subject knowledge. I also teach A level and to me it makes sense that I am more qualified in my subject than my pupils.

Of course qualifications are not everything, I have met some awful teachers with first class degrees. But they are important.

I'm not sure academic qualifications are the be all and end all of being a primiary school teacher. Commitment is essential, as well as the ability to organise and prioritise (and I think liking children helps a little bit, too!).
There are so many things to juggle - at the moment, I'm planning, teaching, writing up class lists for next year, monitoring post-SATs, entering TA data, doing 4 lunchtime clubs, planning and taking part in 2 concerts, making a film (and inviting parents to the premiere (with refreshments) - all within the next 10 days. None of that calls on my university degree!

I've got a 'drinker's Third' in a degree subject (Classics) other than my teaching specialism (English - they chuck the odd bit of Latin my way now & then).

I am bloody good, I'll have you know.

I don't mind being Performance Managed, Ofsteded, 'Golden lesson'ed or checked up on every 5 years to see that I haven't turned into an utter drivelling idiot around whom the kids are doing wardances.

However, I'm still sceptical as to where more teachers will come from to replace the incompetents. I teach in a good comp, & I'm very aware of appointments (especially part-time or temporary ones) which are a case of '<shrug> Well, he'll need a fair bit of support, but he's the best we're going to get'.

I lost an 'l' there - pupils not pupis!

In traditional subjects, 2:1 from a good university which required excellent A level (or equivalent) results to get into. For vocational subjects, the equivalent - the very best. This should be followed by superb teacher training. Yes, our teachers should be the best and they should be paid as such.

Point taken angrypixie, another assessment on top of OFSTED would be costly so maybe we should be ensuring that our teachers are of the highest quality before they start!

Unfortunately Flatcap, those teachers tend to not realise this, which is probably why they don't improve because it is always the fault of the pupis, other teachers, the syllabus, whatever.

It is those teachers (a very, very small minority in my experience) that there needs to be some system to address more effectively. Instead they put more pressure on the whole to try and deal with a minority - it's like whole-class detentions and therefore likely to be ineffective!

"we now need to give Heads greater power to use that as a tool for getting rid of ineffective teachers."

yes, that is what we need, not more monitoring of absolutely everyone at hreat expense. Management already monitor, they know who's poor.