Extra tutoring for 11+

[MadameCastafiore]

Can someone tell me when kids start the extra tutoring for the 11+. A friend of ours, whose daughter is getting tutoring, has told us that the kids need it for the non-verbal reasoning as this format is completely unique to the 11+ and the kids won't be able to pass without it. She also said that DD will need to start tutoring at the beginning of year 5 as she will have to take the exam at the beginning of year 6 - is this right? It seems an awfully long time.

[piscesmoon]

If the DC is suited to a grammar school education they need to be shown the non-verbal reasoning and do a few for practice. If they have to be drilled in it from the beginning of year 5 they shouldn't be at a grammar school-they will struggle.

[cornsilk]

You can buy practice tests from WHSmiths. They don't have to have tutoring.

[piscesmoon]

A few tests from WHSmiths would save you a lot of money!

[LongDroopyBoobyLady]

The grammar schools in my area (South East) hold their entrance tests in November of Year 6. You are looking at 500 children competing for 90 (ish) places.

[ja9]

Where do they still do the 11+ - is it voluntary? I thought they stopped it last year - or was that just NI?

[piscesmoon]

Lots of places ja9.

[ja9]

really? goodness...

[Metella]

ja9 - that was just NI!

[cherryblossoms]

Are you in the Colchester grammar schools/Southend area or Redbridge? (My geography isn't too good!)

I think it's fairly competitive around there.

Yr 5 is the usual time people start familiarisation.

What you will do depends on the exam (VR? Non-VR? Is there a Maths or English paper?).

It's true that you can tutor yourself. As has been said on many other threads, there are a few techniques for speeding up VR and NVR, which you can teach yourself. After that, it's regular familiarisation to build up speed.

You may be suited to teaching that yourself, or you may want to get a tutor. Likewise, if you want to/need to do anything about maths/English it's possible to do it yourself but you may prefer a tutor.

Ime - a huge number of the dc taking the VR and NVR exams cluster around a quite narrow span of marks, so a lot of it does come down to speed and accuracy. Being very quick at times tables is a very helpful skill.

Have a look at the elevenplusexams website, which will give a good deal of information about the types of exams in your area (if you don't already know) and also those "techniques".

[piscesmoon]

This is why I hate the system-it is stacked against the really bright child whose parents don't bother-less bright children with pushy parents take the place.

[cherryblossoms]

piscesmoon - be fair; it also discriminates against bright children at less good/awful primary schools, too. And bright children who are brought up in homes with more limited vocabularies and less access to books.

But I think that might be a whole other thread.

[neverwasswedishanyway]

We're in SE Kent and the test is now in September. I do some 11+ tutoring - at the moment I only see 3 students (one individually each week and 2 together each fortnight) but have a few more starting after Easter.
Last year I did some group work (2s and 3s) over the summer holiday at the request of parents - able children who needed a bit of focus over the holiday as the test is so soon after the return to school. I've been asked to do the same this year.
I agree the system is unfair, but am thoroughly delighted with the education my 3 older children (including dyslexic ds)receive at grammars

[Daffodingles2]

I'm going to start tutoring ds1 in January for the 11+ in Sept 2010.
In theory I shouldn't need to as he is very bright and should pass the test with no problems but we are also in SE Kent and places are highly sought after so I need to make sure he gets a place as the grammar is the right school for him.
He has already taken one non verbal reasoning test at the beginning of yr 4 which the school use as an indicator of 11+ candidates.

[piscesmoon]

I know that you can't do it, but I would love the test to be a completely level playing field where no one has ever seen it before and they have to work it out for themselves. Cloud cuckoo land I know!!

I just get fed up with the old chestnut that people bring out in defence of grammar schools "it gives the intelligent poor working class child a way out" -hypocritical when they would take that place for their own, less intelligent DC, if they possibly could.

I am very glad that we are in an area of good comprehensives.

[Daffodingles2]

I don't know if that is strictly true Pisces.
ds2 probably won't be going to the grammar. He probably could if I started tutoring him now, but that's not going to happen. Grammar is not the school for him, so why would I
a/ put him in a school where ultimately he would be unhappy and
b/ deprive someone of a place who deserves it.
Our state school is also trying to find the 11+ candidates before tutoring by doing this non verbal reasoning test. Those who pass are on track to get the schools support for grammar. If you put your child in for the test without the schools support they will not appeal for you if there is a problem.
It would be madness not to tutor though, even for the very brightest. There are a million fantastic fee paying schools here who feed to the grammar and you can bet your bottom dollar they'll be doing everything they can to get in.

[giantkatestacks]

Thats interesting Daffodingles - round here the preps wont teach for 11+ at all because it takes away 2 years of further fees a d erodes their relationships with the senior 13+ schools. They expressly wont do anything at all. So everyone tutors.

[Daffodingles2]

yes, I can see that, if there is a relationship with 13+ private schools Kate.
Weirdly, the fee paying schools really thin out here after 11, probably because the vast majority of parents want their dc to go to Cranbrook or the Tunbridge Grammars or they are going for an uber expensive option like Benenden Girls.

[stillenacht]

As a teacher in a GS school i would say at least 80% of our intake (in North Kent) are tutored or went to prep schools who heavily tutor specifically to get good 11plus results.

[piscesmoon]

I don't think that many people take your stance, Daffodingles,their reasoning is 'grammar schools are best, therefore I must drill my DC to get a place'. They are not for the average-and most DCs are average (if they all had IQs of 120, that would be the new average).

[ICANDOTHAT]

MadameCastafiore - is this for a grammar or private school. Yes, verbal & non-verbal papers are unique to the 11+ and private schools sit theirs in the January before the September entry. I would say that even if the child was bright, they still need access/practice to these kind of papers - purely as an idea of what to expect on the day. 'Bond' do practice booklets, available WH Smith/Waterstones and are great. My ds2 was at a prep school that had lessons specifically for these papers during year 5 and beginning of year 6.

These 2 area of the exam definitely need practicing as there are certain methods used to answer the questions and only experience of them would get them a good result.

[kitty007]

Hi a friend of mine used a company called selectsuccess, she really rated them as they offered compact, intensive courses for year 5
www.selectsuccess.co.uk

Kitty

[Camp]

for grammer & private schools you will need to push your kid a bit.
tutoring may not be necessary. its best if you can manage at home with lots of material from the net & shops, providing variety for the kids to practice .
also there is this new breed of tutors who just provide the practice question paper set as per your kids level. this option is best only if your child is good in basics & fundamentals & just needs practice.

[sue52]

The 11plus is a minefield. At DDs school, kids who scored over 120 in the cats test were encouraged to take the (Kent) test, anyone between 110 and 120 was considered borderline and the decision was up to the parents.

[squashpie]

That is really interesting Stillenacht. When I've rung our local schools - private and grammar - they have told me they expressly discourage tutoring because they want the kids to get in who have no tutoring. when I heard that for the fourth time, I really did go [sceptical] are these schools for real? They must know what I know: namely, that everyone I have ever heard of applying for these schools are tutored to within an inch of their lives, either by parents, prep schools or private tutors (or all 3!) to get into these places, for at least a year (and sometimes for 2 years) beforehand. There are many children I know who are then continued to be tutored, often for maths, when actually at these schools.

I know there will be exceptions (though I've yet to meet one, in all honesty), but they will be exactly that: exceptions.

The schools are kidding themselves.

[stillconfused]

My DS is taking the 11+ in Essex - there is no way he would be able to cope without tutoring (home or via external tutor) as the levels children are tested on are far beyond what they do at school. He is in top sets and maths club at a good state primary and his SATS at the end of year five were in the range you would expect for a Grammar School candidate. When I spoke to our head she agreed that it is best to start preparing about a year in advance. I assume if your child goes to a private school this may be very different as some of them (or the majority?) train children for the selective tests.

It is a shame but as there is such demand for these places the tests become harder and harder.