Extra tutoring for 11+

(59 Posts)

Can someone tell me when kids start the extra tutoring for the 11+. A friend of ours, whose daughter is getting tutoring, has told us that the kids need it for the non-verbal reasoning as this format is completely unique to the 11+ and the kids won't be able to pass without it. She also said that DD will need to start tutoring at the beginning of year 5 as she will have to take the exam at the beginning of year 6 - is this right? It seems an awfully long time.

piscesmoon Fri 10-Apr-09 19:28:11

If the DC is suited to a grammar school education they need to be shown the non-verbal reasoning and do a few for practice. If they have to be drilled in it from the beginning of year 5 they shouldn't be at a grammar school-they will struggle.

cornsilk Fri 10-Apr-09 19:29:35

You can buy practice tests from WHSmiths. They don't have to have tutoring.

piscesmoon Fri 10-Apr-09 19:43:29

A few tests from WHSmiths would save you a lot of money!

LongDroopyBoobyLady Fri 10-Apr-09 19:49:26

The grammar schools in my area (South East) hold their entrance tests in November of Year 6. You are looking at 500 children competing for 90 (ish) places.

ja9 Fri 10-Apr-09 19:50:44

Where do they still do the 11+ - is it voluntary? I thought they stopped it last year - or was that just NI?

piscesmoon Fri 10-Apr-09 19:54:00

Lots of places ja9.

ja9 Fri 10-Apr-09 20:03:44

really? goodness...

<whispers: wish i lived there... so much better to go to a grammar than a comprehensive>

<will hide with hard hat now...!>

Metella Fri 10-Apr-09 20:04:13

ja9 - that was just NI!

cherryblossoms Fri 10-Apr-09 20:24:53

Are you in the Colchester grammar schools/Southend area or Redbridge? (My geography isn't too good!)

I think it's fairly competitive around there.

Yr 5 is the usual time people start familiarisation.

What you will do depends on the exam (VR? Non-VR? Is there a Maths or English paper?).

It's true that you can tutor yourself. As has been said on many other threads, there are a few techniques for speeding up VR and NVR, which you can teach yourself. After that, it's regular familiarisation to build up speed.

You may be suited to teaching that yourself, or you may want to get a tutor. Likewise, if you want to/need to do anything about maths/English it's possible to do it yourself but you may prefer a tutor.

Ime - a huge number of the dc taking the VR and NVR exams cluster around a quite narrow span of marks, so a lot of it does come down to speed and accuracy. Being very quick at times tables is a very helpful skill.

Have a look at the elevenplusexams website, which will give a good deal of information about the types of exams in your area (if you don't already know) and also those "techniques".

piscesmoon Fri 10-Apr-09 21:53:26

This is why I hate the system-it is stacked against the really bright child whose parents don't bother-less bright children with pushy parents take the place.

cherryblossoms Sat 11-Apr-09 17:20:40

piscesmoon - be fair; it also discriminates against bright children at less good/awful primary schools, too. And bright children who are brought up in homes with more limited vocabularies and less access to books.

But I think that might be a whole other thread.

neverwasswedishanyway Sat 11-Apr-09 17:37:49

We're in SE Kent and the test is now in September. I do some 11+ tutoring - at the moment I only see 3 students (one individually each week and 2 together each fortnight) but have a few more starting after Easter.
Last year I did some group work (2s and 3s) over the summer holiday at the request of parents - able children who needed a bit of focus over the holiday as the test is so soon after the return to school. I've been asked to do the same this year.
I agree the system is unfair, but am thoroughly delighted with the education my 3 older children (including dyslexic ds)receive at grammars

Daffodingles2 Sat 11-Apr-09 17:45:12

I'm going to start tutoring ds1 in January for the 11+ in Sept 2010.
In theory I shouldn't need to as he is very bright and should pass the test with no problems but we are also in SE Kent and places are highly sought after so I need to make sure he gets a place as the grammar is the right school for him.
He has already taken one non verbal reasoning test at the beginning of yr 4 which the school use as an indicator of 11+ candidates.

piscesmoon Sat 11-Apr-09 18:04:06

I know that you can't do it, but I would love the test to be a completely level playing field where no one has ever seen it before and they have to work it out for themselves. Cloud cuckoo land I know!!

I just get fed up with the old chestnut that people bring out in defence of grammar schools "it gives the intelligent poor working class child a way out" -hypocritical when they would take that place for their own, less intelligent DC, if they possibly could.

I am very glad that we are in an area of good comprehensives.

Daffodingles2 Sat 11-Apr-09 20:10:37

I don't know if that is strictly true Pisces.
ds2 probably won't be going to the grammar. He probably could if I started tutoring him now, but that's not going to happen. Grammar is not the school for him, so why would I
a/ put him in a school where ultimately he would be unhappy and
b/ deprive someone of a place who deserves it.
Our state school is also trying to find the 11+ candidates before tutoring by doing this non verbal reasoning test. Those who pass are on track to get the schools support for grammar. If you put your child in for the test without the schools support they will not appeal for you if there is a problem.
It would be madness not to tutor though, even for the very brightest. There are a million fantastic fee paying schools here who feed to the grammar and you can bet your bottom dollar they'll be doing everything they can to get in.

giantkatestacks Sat 11-Apr-09 20:15:18

Thats interesting Daffodingles - round here the preps wont teach for 11+ at all because it takes away 2 years of further fees a d erodes their relationships with the senior 13+ schools. They expressly wont do anything at all. So everyone tutors.

Daffodingles2 Sat 11-Apr-09 20:22:43

yes, I can see that, if there is a relationship with 13+ private schools Kate.
Weirdly, the fee paying schools really thin out here after 11, probably because the vast majority of parents want their dc to go to Cranbrook or the Tunbridge Grammars or they are going for an uber expensive option like Benenden Girls.

stillenacht Sat 11-Apr-09 20:36:35

As a teacher in a GS school i would say at least 80% of our intake (in North Kent) are tutored or went to prep schools who heavily tutor specifically to get good 11plus results.

piscesmoon Sat 11-Apr-09 21:09:15

I don't think that many people take your stance, Daffodingles,their reasoning is 'grammar schools are best, therefore I must drill my DC to get a place'. They are not for the average-and most DCs are average (if they all had IQs of 120, that would be the new average).

ICANDOTHAT Tue 14-Apr-09 13:02:40

MadameCastafiore - is this for a grammar or private school. Yes, verbal & non-verbal papers are unique to the 11+ and private schools sit theirs in the January before the September entry. I would say that even if the child was bright, they still need access/practice to these kind of papers - purely as an idea of what to expect on the day. 'Bond' do practice booklets, available WH Smith/Waterstones and are great. My ds2 was at a prep school that had lessons specifically for these papers during year 5 and beginning of year 6.

These 2 area of the exam definitely need practicing as there are certain methods used to answer the questions and only experience of them would get them a good result.

kitty007 Thu 23-Apr-09 12:49:12

Hi a friend of mine used a company called selectsuccess, she really rated them as they offered compact, intensive courses for year 5


Camp Thu 14-Oct-10 06:21:52

for grammer & private schools you will need to push your kid a bit.
tutoring may not be necessary. its best if you can manage at home with lots of material from the net & shops, providing variety for the kids to practice .
also there is this new breed of tutors who just provide the practice question paper set as per your kids level. this option is best only if your child is good in basics & fundamentals & just needs practice.

sue52 Thu 14-Oct-10 15:10:23

The 11plus is a minefield. At DDs school, kids who scored over 120 in the cats test were encouraged to take the (Kent) test, anyone between 110 and 120 was considered borderline and the decision was up to the parents.

squashpie Thu 14-Oct-10 15:20:03

That is really interesting Stillenacht. When I've rung our local schools - private and grammar - they have told me they expressly discourage tutoring because they want the kids to get in who have no tutoring. when I heard that for the fourth time, I really did go [sceptical] are these schools for real? They must know what I know: namely, that everyone I have ever heard of applying for these schools are tutored to within an inch of their lives, either by parents, prep schools or private tutors (or all 3!) to get into these places, for at least a year (and sometimes for 2 years) beforehand. There are many children I know who are then continued to be tutored, often for maths, when actually at these schools.

I know there will be exceptions (though I've yet to meet one, in all honesty), but they will be exactly that: exceptions.

The schools are kidding themselves.

stillconfused Fri 15-Oct-10 10:40:19

My DS is taking the 11+ in Essex - there is no way he would be able to cope without tutoring (home or via external tutor) as the levels children are tested on are far beyond what they do at school. He is in top sets and maths club at a good state primary and his SATS at the end of year five were in the range you would expect for a Grammar School candidate. When I spoke to our head she agreed that it is best to start preparing about a year in advance. I assume if your child goes to a private school this may be very different as some of them (or the majority?) train children for the selective tests.

It is a shame but as there is such demand for these places the tests become harder and harder.

BrigitBigKnickers Fri 15-Oct-10 11:45:50

You are right stillconfused. We too live in Essex and the 11+ is fiercely competetive round here.

Many of the pupils who get into the Grammar schools here have been to private prep schools where they are coached in 11+ skills from a young age at school. One girl I know who is at the super selective Chelmsford girls' school said that 75% of her school year were made up of privately educated pupils.

There is quite a bit of maths for the 11+ that is well into level 6 in the NC is largely not covered at KS2. The English is amazingly difficult- recent comprehension 11+ papers have been from Tess of the D'urbervilles and Bleak House- (never mind DD I couldn't make head nor tail of it!)confused

The test papers are said to have increased in difficulty as compared to 10/15 years ago simply because many more pupils now have tuition.

My DD had tuition (her idea-she really wanted to do it) starting in the November of year 5(at a local Kip Mcgrath centre)It was fairly unpressurised until we got to the few weeks before the test.

She passed grinand has recently started at the Westcliff girls school and is loving it. She is coping well with the work and is easily up with the abilities of her classmates.The often made comment about tutored children not coping when they get to grammar school doesn't seem to be true for her.

MrsBartlet Fri 15-Oct-10 12:43:26

Stillconfused - I think you are right - it would be unfair to send a child into the Essex exam without having been prepared for it. My ds will be doing the 11+ next year and will be tutored. He is totally grammar school material but I know what the competition is like!!

I totally agree with you BrigitBigKnickers about the comment about tutored children not thriving in grammar school - it drives me mad and is clearly not applicable to Essex. Dd is at Chelmsford County High - she was tutored (and I don't think she would have got in without it) yet she is thriving. Glad your dd is enjoying Westcliff.

mattellie Fri 15-Oct-10 17:21:28

Totally agree, this is a complete myth. The 11+ is a very specific type of exam and you need practice in it to enable you to pass, not least because some of the areas it covers will not be covered in a typical state primary school until later in Y6 (ie after the exam), if at all.

Not in the same part of the country as BBK/MrsB but in my area the GCSE stats do not appear to support the theory that DCs who struggled to pass the 11+ (or who got through on appeal) do any worse than those who sailed through with flying colours.

Camp Mon 18-Oct-10 06:17:24

yes, 11+ is all about practice. A subject like maths, one only gets better & better with solving different types of examples. Tutoring must not be looked at only from the 11+ angle. its a good mind excercise which when done under a good guide only makes u love the subject more!!! An ideal tutor would never push a child, just guide them thru so that they effortlessly achieve targets set for their individual pace of learning. One such tutor I have had experience with did just this for my kids. you can reach her at kidskids88@gmail.com.
also Kip Mcgrath is another good palce to get loads of hands on practice.

Bluestockings Sun 24-Oct-10 16:41:16

11+ English: A Parent's Toolkit by Katherine Hamlyn is a brilliant alternative to coaching. It costs £12.95 but that's less than half a tutoring session. It has very sensible advice and good practical exercises. (Also some very funny pictures.) No good if you're a flat-out working mum but if you've got time it's really useful and fun. My DD and I have really enjoyed using it.

K8Water Tue 26-Oct-10 22:34:06

The competition is so fierce out there for grammar school places that if you do not tutor your children in some way or another they are unlikely to get in! Very bright children are tutored - and this usually begins at the beginning of Year 5. State school children are also competing against prep school pupils where previous exposure to practice material is probable.

My DD, who is in Year 5, is using www.tutr.co.uk for verbal reasoning practice resources. I have to give her the best chance possible!

Yoursmartchildnow Sun 13-Feb-11 16:39:09

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Yoursmartchildnow Sun 13-Feb-11 18:17:02

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Yoursmartchildnow Sun 13-Feb-11 18:20:11

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LIZS Sun 13-Feb-11 18:24:30

yeah right !

Feenie Sun 13-Feb-11 19:26:07

You're an idiot, Yoursmartchildnow - as if anyone would make their username the name of a company they happen to have nothing to do with.

You have totally shot yourself in the foot - no MNer will go near your tutoring company now. If the spamming didn't do it, the poorly spelt/punctuated posts put the tin lid on it for sure.

Dyslexiatutor Thu 17-Feb-11 17:02:12

Dyslexic and dyspraxic children score very highly in these tests naturally.

I assess and tutor children who are dyslexic, dyspraxic and aspergers syndrome, and they do not need tutoring in the areas of non-verbal reasoning. They are often exceptionally good at these visual pattern problem solving tests, though they may need to learn keyboarding skills, and a concession of using a laptop in school and for exams to offset other processing problems they may have, such as spelling. It is not possible to 'tutor' intelligence. This type of test may be unfamiliar to them, that's true' but it is their reaction to it that is the real test. The intelligent one's meet that challenge. The test is designed to be outside school learning, into the abstract. Visual learners excel in this type of test.

Bunbaker Thu 17-Feb-11 17:10:17

How does the entrance exam for an independent grammar school differ from the 11+? DD sat an entrance exam for a high school in the next city in January and passed easily. I didn't tutor her, but downloaded a few entrance exam papers from the net to give her an idea of what to expect.

I take the view that if a child needs so much extra help to get through an exam that they may struggle at grammar school.

Michaelahpurple Fri 18-Feb-11 17:30:34

The schools are kidding themselves, but the other reaction can also be disconcerting. I was visiting a London prep school for 8+ entry, and when I said where my son was currently at school (one which is great but doesn't make a bit focus of 8+), the head bluntly said words to the effect of "Oh, he'll need tutoring to perform to his level at 8+; here's the number of a tutor". I was quite thrown by this!

MillyR Fri 18-Feb-11 19:57:37

You need to prepare for the 11 plus, just like you need to prepare for any exam. Most 11 plus exams test for maths and verbal reasoning ability; these are both acquired skills so of course preparation helps.

The issue is that some parents intensively prepare their children, which is bad for the children and doesn't help them improve beyond a certain point.

I think teaching children that they should be able to pass an exam without working towards it, on the basis that they have some kind of innate amazingness, is a poor life lesson. The only child who passed a test on that basis was Harry Potter.

Bunbaker Sat 19-Feb-11 09:14:09

The entrance exam DD sat had maths, english and verbal reasoning papers. Beyond looking at a few verbal reasoning papers from about three weeks beforehand DD didn't do much preparation at all. They are doing far more preparation for the KS2 SATS at school than DD did for her exam. It sounds like I am boasting, but I know that she isn't Einstein and she isn't scholarship material either. It helped that it didn't really matter if DD didn't pass the exam as we have a perfectly good comprehensive on our doorstep. I didn't put her under any pressure and she wasn't nervous on exam day - I was more nervous than she was. Besides, the high school have refused us a bursary so DD won't be going there anyway.

vocabularycards Tue 30-Oct-12 15:28:06

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

tiggytape Tue 30-Oct-12 21:29:17

If it is an 11+ exam for a school that only takes the top 150 out of 1500 applicants (no sibling or catchment priority) then the scores at the top are so close that people don't tutor children to pass - they tutor them to squeeze out every last 0.5% that might make all the difference between a pass with no place and a pass with an offer.

Many children pass these exams even though they are pitched at a high level but it isn't enough just to pass. You have to pass with a score that beats most of the other scores to actually get a place.

I don't think any of those schools pretend to be serving poor but bright children anymore. They are almost entirely populated by very middle class families even if the school itself is situated in a poorer part of town. The number of children eligible for free school meals is way below the national average even though, in theory, these schools have no catchment area or any extra selection beyond an academic exam to ensure only middle class families attend.

TheLaineyWayIsEssex Fri 02-Nov-12 10:30:47

If anyone needs a tutor in the Colchester area PM me. I know a lovely Cambridge Law graduate who has just started a tutoring business.

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Sat 03-Nov-12 12:34:58

My area doesn't do NVR for 11+. Which is a shame, because my untutored DS1 can ace NVR papers with 100% correct answers.

If your DC has the innate natural talent, then tutoring isn't that necessary, 6 x 2hr sessions covering the VR and the English and Maths that they aren't taught in Primary should be plenty.

My local superselective Grammar deputy HT maintains that the most heavily tutored tend to achieve less.

I think that if your local Grammar is superselective, then the most you need is tutoring from the start of Y5. And only one session a week.

If your child is getting level 4b's/4a's at the end if Y4' they shouldn't need lots of tutoring to get into Grammar. If they aren't at that level at the end of Y4, then are they really suited to Grammar school?

My eldest DC, DD wasn't. And is doing better than expected at her Comp.

My DS1 was getting levels at or higher than those at the end of Y4, and got a mark that should get him into the local superselective for next September, despite being very ill for the time of the 11+.

My DS2, I doubt it. Though at the start of Y4, his levels are climbing. I will make a decision at the end of Y4, but it's likely to be the local comp for him too.

Each child is different, and I don't wish to push one school for all, when what I really want is the best school for EACH DC, as individuals.

letseatgrandma Tue 06-Nov-12 22:25:14

If your child is getting level 4b's/4a's at the end if Y4' they shouldn't need lots of tutoring to get into Grammar. If they aren't at that level at the end of Y4, then are they really suited to Grammar school?

I don't think that NC levels are always a reliable indicator though. DS was a 4c at the end of Y4 (with only a 3a in writing) and has just got a great pass mark in the Essex 11+. He's working at a 5b in most things now and is doing well. I wouldn't say you necessarily need to be a 4b/a by the end of Y4 and that you aren't grammar material if you aren't?

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Tue 06-Nov-12 23:19:13

I agree that it's possible to be at a lower NC level at the end of Y4, and to have a developmental leap in Y5, meaning that you are capable of gaining a place at a superselective GS in Y6.

I don't think that a DC that is lower than level 4a at the end of Y4, that makes expected two sub level progress in Y5, is likely to get a high enough mark to gain a place at the start of Y6.

At least, not without intensive tutoring.

The average NC levels at the end of Y5 of the DC's I know in Essex that have hot good enough marks to be highly likely to gain a place at one if the GS's in Essex are 5b's across the board minimum. And mostly are 5a's and 6's at the end of Y5.

Though I guess it depends if you are aiming for one of the Southend schools, or KEGS/CRGS/CCHS/CoCHS.

The mark that gains entry to the Southend schools is lower than that for the Chelmsford or Colchester GS's.

So a child on 3a/4c/4b at the end of Y4 is more likely to gain a place at a Southend school than at a Chelmsford or Colchester school. Most of the people I know in Essex are looking to gain entry to a Chelmsford or Colchester school.

I still maintain that the most a naturally able DC will need in the way if tutoring is 6 x 2hr sessions to familiarise themselves with the multiple choice VR test layout and the English and Maths they may not yet have covered.

And I agree that NC levels may not match up with the knowledge necessary to pass the 11+, certainly in Essex, but I would not imagine that a DC on lvl 3a across the board at the end of Y4, that made 'expected progress' in Y5 would gain a place at a Chelmsford or Colchester school.

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Tue 06-Nov-12 23:45:34

I also think that if a DC needs intensive tutoring to get a high enough mark in the 11+ to gain a place at a superselective GS, then that parent should think about whether a GS is the best environment for their DC.

Is their DC going to find it less stressful being at the top of a Comprehensive top set, or the bottom of a GS bottom set? Each DC will react differently to those stresses.

For some, being bottom of the bottom set in GS would be terribly damaging to their self esteem, and they may actually gain far better results being top of the top set in a Comprehensive.

For others, being top of a top set in Comprehensive would encourage them to 'coast', whereas being bottom of the bottom set in GS would 'push' their DC's to work harder.

Each DC is individual. So IMO, if a parent feels that their DC will need to be heavily tutored, with 1/2 or more years of tutoring, to pass the 11+ with a high enough mark to gain a place, they need to look at their DC, and what would be the best for them.

Not what the parent would like for the best, but what is best for their individual DC.

And that may not be the same for all of their DC's, either.

Just because you want them at a GS, doesn't mean that it will automatically be the best 'fit' for that child.

A poor girl in my DS's class was put through the 11+ (in Essex), tutored for 3 full years, sent to Kumon Maths, etc etc.

She got 232 on the Essex 11+. And though her parents had done a good job telling her that she had done well, and she should be proud of herself, then found themselves called to pick their DD up early from school in years the next day. Because on telling her friends how well she had done, one turned round to her and said "Aww, we won't be at school together next year, I'm going to miss you". When this poor girl asked how her friend knew they wouldn't be at school together before March 1st, the response she got was "Well, I got 379, and I will safely get a place at CoCHS. If you scored less than 327, you won't get a place. Will you still come to sleepovers after school?"

And that's why I feel that parents should think long and hard about putting DC's in for the 11+ if they know they will need to be heavily tutored to have any chance of gaining a place.

The upset girl I was on about was on 3b/3c at the end of Y4, despite nearly two years at that point of tuition. (The mum has since told me over coffee & cake. She thought tuition would get her DD a place.)

Surely at that point, her parents could have seen that it might not be the best thing for THEIR DD to be put in for the 11+?

And realise that for those of us who didn't make the decision to do the 11+, but were asked to do it BY their DC's, were obviously going to be more open with our DC's, and that people like me were going to make sure that our DC's were well aware before the 11+ that the local school was a good school, and that they would do well anywhere, and that we would open the results email together and discuss the results and what they meant with each other.

Turned out, she expected all of the DC's in the class that sat the test to have no clue about scores needed to gain entry to the Colchester schools. Considering it was the only topic chatted about the day after the results finally came out, I thought that was a bit naive.

Not everybody puts their DC's in for a test then doesn't discuss the implications of that test.

I'm not dating that it is impossible for a child on 3b/3c at the end of Y4 to gain a place at Grammar. I AM saying that it is unlikely without either a developmental leap in Y5, or heavy tutoring.

letseatgrandma Wed 07-Nov-12 13:30:42

You mention 4b/4a to begin with as being where you should be by the end of Y4 to stand a chance, but finish on saying it's unlikely that a 3b/3c at the end of Y4 would be successful.

I agree with your second point, but there are levels in between. I would say that a 4c at the end of Y4 (like my DS was- in my experience, the maths is usually the strongest subject indicator as to whether they will pass), who makes expected progress in Y5/6 (ie 2 sublevels in Y5 and maybe another by this stage in Y6) would be on track to pass. This isn't a massive developmental leap. DS scored 355+ in the Essex 11+ and certainly didn't have heavy tutoring-only bits I'd done at home with him.

I don't mean to be picky but I'd hate for parents of children with only just above average scores to be put off thinking about grammars. I think the people who did really well from DS's friends (ie 350+ -I presume these would be good enough to be considered for the super selectives in Colchester?) weren't the ones who were level 5b/a but were the ones with extremely supportive parents!

It can be done!

letseatgrandma Wed 07-Nov-12 13:35:49

Typo error earlier-My DS is a 5c now in most things, not a 5b...

piggywigwig Wed 07-Nov-12 18:34:13

"I agree that it's possible to be at a lower NC level at the end of Y4, and to have a developmental leap in Y5, meaning that you are capable of gaining a place at a superselective GS in Y6.

I don't think that a DC that is lower than level 4a at the end of Y4, that makes expected two sub level progress in Y5, is likely to get a high enough mark to gain a place at the start of Y6.

At least, not without intensive tutoring."

May I be like letseatgrandma and politely disagree with you, without my sounding like “my Dad’s bigger than your Dad” grin

DD was Level 4c Maths, 4C Writing and 4B Reading at the end of Yr 4 (teacher assessments, not exam-based) She made no huge leaps in YR 5 and infact went backwards slightly, under some “interesting” teaching methods. It was only with my help that she got back on track.
Like letseatgrandma’s DS, she scored 355+ for a superselective in Colchester without being intensively tutored. I too would hate parents to think it can’t be done unless you have stellar SATS/NC levels at the end of Yr4 wink We should all remembers that SATS/NC levels only give a really loose idea for the needs of the 11+, as they cover/test entirely different things grin We were informed by the HT that the levels were, in some curricululm areas, based largely on the teacher's opinion, rather than a test result and that some teachers could allot marks that could be too high or too low! These NC level limitations are especially relevant for Essex.
DD’s now working at Level 6 throughout.

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Wed 07-Nov-12 19:44:43

I concede!

Though my currently in Y4 DS2 is on lvl 3a/4c for Maths, I wouldn't have thought that he would be aiming for the GS. His English and VR will be nowhere near the level needed.

I guess it's just my experiences. And how far you are happy to push your DC's if they are unable or unwilling.

DS1 wanted to go to GS, and therefore happily did the extra work needed. I highly doubt I would say the same for DS2. I would rather work on important things like his handwriting than push him to tackle work he can't cope with.

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califonia Mon 15-Apr-13 11:25:38

please can some one tell me good tutor for 11+ tuition in mew Madlen, Kingston or Mitchem area. I heard the tutor call onel or unel but I actually don''t know he or his right name. if any one know this tutor please let me know the contact number.

califonia Mon 15-Apr-13 11:26:29

please can some one tell me good tutor for 11+ tuition in mew Madlen, Kingston or Mitchem area. I heard the tutor call onel or unel but I actually don''t know he or his right name. if any one know this tutor please let me know the contact number.

My niece got into three of the top girls selective independents in Surrey from a satisfactory state primary, no tutoring, no practice at home whatsoever apart from a couple of VR tests from Smiths which she worked through with my brother, who also has no experience of them. She was the only child in her year to apply for independent schools, so no help was given at school either. She's now in upper 6th at one of the aforementioned schools.

In all honesty, as long as your child is bright enough, they don't need tutoring. And to be perfectly blunt, if they need a years' worth of tutoring to get into a selective school then it does beg the question as to whether it's the right school for them.

jckhgg Fri 19-Apr-13 19:00:48

My son passed his eleven plus, but could
not get into the grammer school, as oversubscribed, there were two hundred boys that passed and only one hundred and fifty places available. But he is ninth on the waiting lis. What chance has he got to get in, and do some children or parents refuse their place at the grammer school

*Jckhgg it honestly depends on the area you live in- how many selective, well thought of private schools are there?

I've known parents turn down grammar places for top private schools (in fact as a general rule parents will accept a private sector place over a state because the private places have to be accepted before the state ones are allocated), but never for comps. Parents only considering the state system are incredibly unlikely to turn down a grammar school place, only under exceptional circumstances- relocating etc. Otherwise they would be turning down a hard-sought after grammar place, most likely after months of tutoring to get it in the first place, and leaving their child with no place at all and likely to end up at an under-subscribed, failing school. Unless they were relocating/already had a private place accepted, they'd be mad to do so.

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