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Education

State primary school visits - how far in advance? And CoE school query?

16 replies

Hulababy · 07/12/2004 19:34

Curious as we are back to house hunting. DD is currently 2.5yo and wil start school in either September 2006 or January 2007.

We want to make sure that the house we choose is in a good catchment for state school. That is one of key reasons for moving house.

At what point did you visit schools you were interested in sending your DC to?

Can we visit around now, even though it is not until November 2005 we need to apply? The school may well have a big bearing on which house we choose.

And in one area there is a CoE school as well as the other primary. Both are very close. No homes have the CoE school as its catchment school - we have done loads of searches on that! But the CoE school is much higher in terms of league tables and SAT results (and reputation from what we hear) than the other. The other primary isn't teriible but significantly lower attaining in results wise and OFSTED comments.

If we are interested in a CoE school (voluntary aided I think) - what happens there? And what chance do we have - how do we find out?

Have no experience of primaaries at all, so feel very puzzled!

TIA

OP posts:

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morningpaper · 07/12/2004 19:49

Each CofE (CEVA) school has its own criteria for entry. Most are oversubscribed so have to use the criteria.

I think my local one has the following:

attending member of local church affiliated to school
attending member of any local church
geographical area / promimity to school
sibling at school

Lots of people start going to church a year before their child is due to start. :) The church isn't as cynical about this as you might think - it is usually glad of some young faces (for whatever reason) and welcomes the chance to show new people that they are welcoming.

I'm sure any local schools would welcome your enquiries and be pleased to provide you with more information. You're not thinking about this too soon, so don't worry about that. Hope this helps.

codswallop · 07/12/2004 19:54

you can visit when you like but go too early and they may ptsl:)

there is a comon mytht that you need to " put your name down" as if it is Eton. this makes no diff

Iw oudl ring upt he school and ask - if it is a good school you will get lots of help ofrm the admin assitant or the Head, whoever.

Hulababy · 07/12/2004 19:56

I know I don't need to put her name down at state school. It's more to help us with choosing which house to buy!

We visited the local prep schools when DD was a year old. Her name is down there, and they were alread filling up fast! Hoping not to have to use that place now though.

OP posts:

LIZS · 07/12/2004 20:13

You would probably be expected to visit after Summer half term next year at the earliest, although I appreciate your predicament. Perhaps it is worth ringing them for their propsectus and criteria first (which should still be published by the LEA) so that you are aware of which hoops you have to jump through (active membership of certain parish churches and so on)and whether it is really worth your while considering them if you are not already meeting their criteria. Your library may carry copies of the LEA admissions information for this year as a starting point.

I managed to get to see the local state schools several months earlier than our counterparts as we were leaving the country in the meantime so they may make a special case for you, but I'm also not sure how well it would appear to be seen to be moving house to target a particular school (although obviously you will be moving somewhere anyway) so you may want to play it carefully.

marialuisa · 08/12/2004 09:09

Hula- agree with what others say about contacting school to check admissions criteria. Also have you looked at the council website? We found that Nottingham LEA helpfully list which schools were oversubscribed in the previous year, how many applications were rejected and for what resons (e.g. late, out of area). They include the VA schools on their list too.

ButtonMoon · 08/12/2004 10:17

Having a similar problem at the mo....I phoned up the 2 local primaries and the secretary from the one laughed when I told her that DD was 2.5!!! I explained that we had bought a house in the area and were moving after Xmas She reluctantly sent a prospectus, which to be honest contained more info about what school dinners they had!! I got most useful info from OFSTED (if recent) and league tables. You might find that maybe the non VA school has a better ethos for your DD anyhow and maybe you shouldn't just rely on what external agencies say. As long as your house is within close proximity of both these schools then you should be able to get in whichever you choose. (Just start attending church!! ) In our authority there is a booklet that is publised that gives all info on admissions for all schools. try going to your council's website and picking up a link or google "primary school admissions" HTH

popsycal · 08/12/2004 10:21

Hula - to be honest, the league tables mean very little in my opinion....as long as the % aren't too low.....if they are above 75% I would say that is decent. I get very tetchy about schools that have high 90% year on year (maybe I am just a cynic!)

I think the OFSTED report is more reliable than the league tables and the 'feel' you get for the school when you look around.

I don't think you need to apply until next academic year...but if you explain you are house hunting then I don't thikn schools would mind showing you round....wait til after Christmas though! :)

maddiemo · 08/12/2004 10:29

When we were house hunting we called schools near houses we were interested in and asked if we could come and look as the school would be a major factor in our house buying decision. All the schools we looked at were fine about it, to be honest if they hadn't wanted us to visit it would have put me off.
Schools are so different that some just did not suit my children even though they were good schools.

Hulababy · 08/12/2004 10:59

Cheers all.

Popsy - I ahte league tables too, esp for primary. But DH does use it as a reference I guess. Been asking around people from area too. Going to see 3 houses tonight. Hopefully if these people had children I can ask them too.

OP posts:

HosannainexsAilsa · 08/12/2004 22:57

Look at the Value Added score for the schools. This is far more useful than the % of children that got certain grades.

popsycal · 09/12/2004 08:50

Oh god - please dont get me going about value added!!!!
I cold talk all day abotu why they are even more flawed than league tables.......
The best schools often have the worst value added....which I will explain if people are interested...

marialuisa · 09/12/2004 09:00

TBH I use the league tables to check that schools are doing as well as I would expect. So, I know that School X is in a leafy suburb, I know that there isn't a large problem esate in the catchment and that only a few kids would have English as a second language. Therefore if the school isn't consistently getting at least 85% of kids through at Level 4 at KS2 I would assume that all may not be quite well.

How simplistic am I?

tatt · 09/12/2004 09:14

Don't try to visit before Christmas but they should be able to send you a prospectus with their admission criteria. Ask if they have any PTA events and visit them if they do - you'll get a much better feel for the school by seeing how the children behave at them. You can also talk to parents but don't ask when the stalls are busiest (someone did this to me). Sometimes schools have open days/ assemblies that anyone can visit - if you aren't moving immediately they are well worth going to.

Offsted reports, IMHO, don't bear much relation to the school. They have some value for giving you clues to what to ask about but they usually miss the real problems. League tables have value although they can be despite the school rather than because of it. I'd be interested in popsycal'#s explanation. I know one school that was certainly doing its best to fiddle these by understating what children could do on arrival... too busy to go on

popsycal · 09/12/2004 09:16

Hiya tatt.....

I explained this on a thread some time ago....I will go off to search for it..and if not I will come back and explain...

popsycal · 09/12/2004 09:19

Hi again - I found it Tatt...

Have just cut and pasted it from another thread so I hope it makes sense in this context:

A bit of context - I am a Year Six teacher and head of year in a large school and have a key role in the organising and preparation of SATs and the analysis of data.

VAlue added is a measure of how much 'extra' a school gives its pupils - for example, a pupil may be prdicted a low level 4 at key stage two (based upon what they achieved at KS!)but might achieve a high level 4 - so the value added it the extra bit (low L4 to high L4) that the school have added on.

There are all the usual arguements about pupils progressing at different rates....but the main flaw (as i see it) is the way that it is calculated. I am going to simplify this a little or I will get myself tied up in knots.....
Bear with me if you are interested!

Pupils are 'expected' to achieve level 4 at KS2 - they are given a prediction based on their KS1 sats adding half a level a year - so a pupil who achieves l2 at KS1 is predicted a L4 at ks2.
Levels are assigned points scores so say
L1 =1 point
L2 = 2 points
L3 = 3 points (etc - not correct but illustrates the point)

A child with 3 points in each subject at KS1 will obviously get a total of 9 points....they are therefore predicted 3 level 5s at ks2 (15 points) but to get a positive value added total they need to get more than 15 points - more than 3 level 5s

BUT THEY CANNOT GET THIS AS LEVEL 5 IS TEH HIGHEST YOU CAN ACHIEVE AT KS2.

So if the school has good results at KS1 - ie lots of level 3s and therefore lots of children working ABOVE average - lots of children will be predicted level 5s at KS2. It is impossible to get a high value added score as there is currently no way to measure value added with these pupils.

So a really good school will have a value added measure of around 100 (as predicted so to speak) when many of the pupils are above average.

Does that make any sense?
That is the first flaw....

meea · 09/12/2004 10:11

The one thing I would say is that things can very easily change.The school you look round now may be very different by the time your child starts school.
My own dd2 was 4 in August she has been allocated a place at our local primary not our catchment school but where her older siblings attend.
We were really happy with our choice until she went for her first visit 3 weeks ago.
The school has been turned upside down by a new head teacher she is going into a class of 25 in a completely inapproriate class room.We were told by the head of governers that they only realised 6 weeks ago that they didn't have any were to put them.They have turned the beautiful reception class into 2 tiny class rooms.
We are now desparately trying to decide if we can afford to send to a local prep school and have to decide this weekend.
I guess what i am saying is that it's a long time and things can chage so much in such a short space of time.

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