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please help - ft working parents blackmailed into accepting 2 1/2 hr pre school nursery place...

50 replies

serenequeen · 27/08/2004 13:31

hello mumnsetters

i'm really hoping the combined wisdom of mumsnet can help dh and i resolve something that has been a large source of stress for some months. in fact it is only the fact that we recently moved house and had another baby that has prevented us focusing on this at an earlier stage.

the issue is this. ds (3) has been offered pre school nursery places at the three primary schools for which he is down so far. since we both work ft (or near enough) and the pre school nursery places amount to only 2 1/2 hrs per day, we turned down places at two of the schools without a second thought, since attendance at the nursery for these schools does not impact whether or not the child will be offered a place at the primary school. however, the other school, which is rc and our top choice for ds , has made attendance at the pre-school nursery one of the criteria on which selection for entry to the school is made.

dh and i went to see the head about this, explaining that as we both work, it would be extremely difficult for us logistically to enable ds to attend the nursery . he as good as told us that if ds didn't take up the nursery place, he wouldn't get in to the primary school.

some points that are relevant to us in all this:

  • ds currently attends a nursery that we are very happy with and wouldn't move him in the ideal world
  • he has had to cope with a number of changes in a short space of time and i am uncomfortable with the thought of another one so soon
  • ds still needs a nap in the pm which won't be possible with the pre school nursery hours
  • if we take up the place, between sept and next jan (when i go back to work - on mat leave atm) our lives will be pretty miserable - either i will have to transform myself overnight into SAHM of lively 3 yr old who loves nursery or he will have to go to his existing nursery in the morning and then either dh or i will have to pick him up and drop him off at the pre school nursery in the pm. i will have to do the pick ups every day. it will be extremely restrictive and not the maternity leave i had planned.
  • i had also planned to spend more time with ds by reducing his nursery days when i felt more on my feet with the new baby - which isn't quite yet!
  • we could cope with the place come january by getting a nanny - but i hadn't budgeted on such a large expense next year. and anyway, we need to take up the place in sept, to the best of my knowledge they wouldn't allow him to start in jan.
  • i had planned to go back to work 4 days per week in jan, but am now wondering what is the point, as my fridays will be v. restricted anyway - all for the sake of a 2 1/2 hr slot!
  • may not be possible for me to work 4 days anyway, as we might need my ft salary to pay the nanny!

    in short, we do not want to take this place in september, but if we don't he is likely not to get into the school - which is absolutely the one we want him to go to.

    what do mumsnetters think we should do?

    thanks in advance
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motherinferior · 27/08/2004 13:34

Officially, nursery places are NOT linked to take-up later, honestly they aren't. Officially, anyway.

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motherinferior · 27/08/2004 13:35

Sorry, didn't read your post, am being hopeless, major apologies.

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pamina3 · 27/08/2004 13:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

serenequeen · 27/08/2004 13:37

mi, you're right for the the ordinary state schools, but not for the rc. have to confess we just assumed the rc school wouldn't be allowed to make it a criteria either - we got a bit of a shock i can tell you

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lalaa · 27/08/2004 13:38

I would be asking myself whether the inflexible attitude of the school is something I could live with in the long term. If this is their view on the pre-school places and they aren't prepared to compromise, what other things are they going to be inflexible about once he's there.

Perhaps he should go to another school.

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motherinferior · 27/08/2004 13:41

Any decent childminders who pick up from that school?

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serenequeen · 27/08/2004 13:46

oh more responses, thank you!

lalaa, we are asking ourselves that...

mi, other parents are using childminders, i believe. she really would have to be something special - it's his holiday at the moment and dh and i have been devoting ourselves to his entertainment (well i am looking after new baby as well of course) and he has been saying how much he misses nursery! suspect that such a paragon would be booked up.... would look into it as a potential solution for when i go back to work in jan.

pamina, yes that's occurred to us, as well as every single other permutation of this situation! it's got to the point where we just go round and round with the options, hence this appeal to the wise heads of mumsnet! :)

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StickyNote · 27/08/2004 14:00

Putting everything else aside, what were your plans for when he starts school properly? Who will drop off at 9.00/pick up at 3.00? Can you work backwards from this point to where you're at now i.e. if your would have to have a childminder to collect him from school 4 days a week because you both work, wouldn't it be better to settle him with one now?

Good schools are worth hanging onto in the long run...

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serenequeen · 27/08/2004 14:12

hi

just a bit more from me before i have to disappear and feed baby...

the issue is not quite the same as if he were at school, i.e. childminder - not just an after school service needed, would need to drop off ds at childminder in the morning, she would then need to take him to pre school nursery, pick him up and keep him until one of us could pick him up. might be able to find someone willing to do this, again it's something that might work from january so would look into it as a possible option then.

thanks for all responses so far :)

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linnet · 27/08/2004 14:25

When my dd was in preschool, which was 2 and a half hours every morning, there were quite a few kids that would get dropped off by a childminder at 9am then picked up again at 11.30am and they would stay with the childminder until their parents collected them later in the day.
So it can be done and I don't think it's really that unusual. Might be worth checking out local childminders just to see if any of them do this.

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roisin · 27/08/2004 15:01

SQ: Just wanted to say you are completely right about how restrictive these 2.5 hr sessions are on your lifestyle. Loads of people I know who've hesitated before accepting such places have subsequently confirmed it was a real pain, and often with their second child have made different arrangements.

I don't know what hours your ds currently does at nursery or how far apart the nurseries are. Can he have a morning place at the school nursery, would that make it easier? Many nurseries do drop offs/collections from other nurseries ... Have you approached the (non-school) nursery with a proposal? Or could you employ someone just to take him from the school to the nursery, or vice versa?

How highly do you score on other points for admission to the school? (Distance from school, practising rcs, that sort of thing?) Places do come up at schools all the time, in greater or lesser numbers depending on your area. We moved into an area of low mobility, and were told we had no chance of getting in to our first choice school as there was a long waiting list for that school year, but in the end the places came up and we did get a place for ds1 to start in the new term.

Fairly incoherent rambling - sorry - hope something makes sense!

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SueW · 27/08/2004 15:01

Childminders and even nurseries around here do school pick-ups and drop-offs, whether the child is in school or nursery, full or part-time. Sometimes a nursery nurse will walk a few to school; sometimes they are taken in a minibus.

Have you spoken to his current nursery about whether they do this?

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clary · 27/08/2004 16:14

It wouldn't be at all unusual for childminder to drop himoff 9am, pick him up 11.30 and then keep him till (say) 5pm or whatever. That's what we have done with DS1 (now at school) and are going to do with DD who starts nursery school in Sept. Well worth looking into anyway. Tho I do take yr point about him liking his (daycare) nursery. Yes, will they do a pick-up (some do).
Hear what y're saying about 2.5 hr sessions eating into the day but you just need to balance that against the benefit of the nursery school... no-one has said this but if they are good they can really help the child. My DS1 went to a fantastic nursery school and I have moved heaven and earth (well, overcome some logistical problems) to make sure DD goes there too. It was so good for DS1, prep for school, socialising with others who are going to his school, having school lunch there, etc. Really brought him on in language and confidence etc.

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Wills · 27/08/2004 16:46

Gosh - do feel for you but had a similar situation recently ourselves (I've just returned to work)

These are my thoughts - HTH

Once I got used to dd1 going for 2 and half hours in the morning I got to rather liking it. It allowed me to focus on our new baby (dd2) and give her attention because when dd1 was around she tended to take up the majority of my time. As for eating into the day is this because its afternoons?

Also we've just hired a nanny share, slightly more expensive than a childminder but far far more flexible. Whilst dd1 was at nursery and I was still off on maternity leave I got to know all the mum's in dd1's class. This enabled me to discover that one mum wanted to share her nanny because both her children were about to enter full time school. It has worked out brilliantly and I am very happy with our nanny. Like you dd1 went to a nursery and I was very happy with it. We sort of "fell" into a nanny share but it has the addded advantage that she drops off and picks up from school. However saying that whilst we were looking for childminders all of them in my area would drop off and pick up from school.

I think you're wrong to assume all the good childminders/nannies have gone but it does take a lot of effort finding someone. As children grow up, as new siblings arrive etc childminders and nannies find they have a turn over. We found that a good source of information came from me getting to know the mums whilst on maternity leave when dropping dd1 off at the school nursery. As many of the children were being dropped off by nannies/childminders it was also an opportunity to actually watch these people in action.

Finally although I know you're happy with the nursery I just wanted to make one point, if the school is that good that you adament that you want your ds to go - surely the nursery is just as good? Yes/No?

Good luck, it took us a good 3 to 4 months to sort out a situation with which we were happy. I am now extremely happy with our nanny share and given the nanny's enthusiasm am confident that dd2 will have just as active and entertaining/social a time as dd1 had at her nursery.

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Wills · 27/08/2004 16:51

Just wanted to add. I don't have a nanny share based on days but rather time during the day. She has all four children first thing, then drops 3 off to school leaving her time to focus on my dd2. Until Jan 05 she will be picking up two children from school at 11.45 (including my dd1) and then finally picks up the last child from school at 3.15. From jan05 onwards the three older children will all be full time school.

My dd's have gained a brother and a sister from this arrangement and dd1 is on seventh heaven. For her she has gained an older sister (who is 6, dd1 is 4.5) who she adores. Meanwhile the other two appear to be completely bowled over by both my girls. This has been going on for 6 months and although they fight occasionally fundamentally they are very happy. The other two kids are away at the moment and my dd1 is bordering on inconsolable.

Hope that wasn't too much information but I wanted to show you that sometimes solutions come from areas you are not expecting. We certainly hadn't intended on having a nanny.

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WideWebWitch · 27/08/2004 18:45

SQ, not much time but I didn't think they were allowed to blackmail you like this about pre-school places? Ah, just skim read and saw MI said same but this doesn't apply to you. Sorry you're in this situation, will think and post again if I can add anything constructive.

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serenequeen · 27/08/2004 20:23

hello again everyone

reassuring to know that childminder could be an option but i would need to find one that will also be able to take dd when the time comes. i assume that those recommending a childminder mean that dd would also go there when the time comes...

his current nursery will help by getting him changed into his pre school uniform and making sure he eats a packed lunch, but they can't help with transporting him between locations.

a morning session doesn't help us that much tbh.

clary - ds is already at a good nursery which is open all day.

sorry but a 2 1/2 hr session is for SAHMs to get a break - it is risible for working parents, unless they are prepared to subject their kids to a patchwork arrangement of care during the working day.

what i'm trying to weigh up is the benefit of the school place (which is far from guaranteed by the way - we could have all this hassle and not get in to the school) v. the hassle for us in the coming 6m while i am on mat leave. the options are better in jan when i'm back to work, although they are still unpalatable.

thanks for all the responses so far, please keep them coming :)

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cazzybabs · 27/08/2004 20:37

I would phone the LEA and ask about this - it sounds a bizare policy esp. as education is not compulasary (sp) until the term the child is 5. I wonder if what they have said to you is illegal?

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Tommy · 27/08/2004 20:50

Serencequeen - I would contact LEA as cazzybabs has suggested but also the Diocesan Education Office - they may be able to help you with the specific policies for Catholic schools in the area.

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LizP · 27/08/2004 21:19

Sorry but I really disagree that a 2 1/2 hr session is for SAHM to get a break - it is to break children gently into the school routine and get them used to doing some more structured learning so they have the relevant skills when they start reception.

I think there is quite a difference between a school nursery and an all day child care nursery. Both have pros and cons, and obviously the length of the session is a major disadvantage to you, but seems long enough is a structured environment for most children that age - I'm assuming your current nursery has more 'free play' when it's more like being at home or child minders.

The head at my childrens school (with a pm nursery) makes a strong case that children shouldn't do extra playgroup/nursery sessions in other places if at all possible.

Unless your school is private I agree that the linking of nursery to school place sounds dubious - even if it is a faith school. Call the LEA.

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stripey · 27/08/2004 21:42

I am a SAHM, my ds1 will be attending an afternoon 2.5hr rc nursery session in Sept and believe me I will not be getting a break while he is there as I have a second ds age 2 who will have his naps interupted and will not be able to attend most morning groups I would like to take him to because I will have my 4 year old with me. However I believe it will be of most benefit to ds1 and will help him settle into Reception next year.

I don't mean to sound too harsh but it seems like what is best for your ds is not your first priority but what is best for you.

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serenequeen · 27/08/2004 22:11

stripey, ok, calm down. the problems you mention for yourself are exactly the ones that will impact me - so i don't see why that makes me the selfish one! i won't be able to go to groups etc either, will i? nor will my v. small baby be able to get the naps she needs.

i believe ds is getting a very good introduction to school life where he is. hope you actually read my original post and didn't just react to what i said about sahms.

sorry, sahms, if my comments upset you. however, i stand by my belief that a 2 1/2 hr session is more workable for a sahm than it is for a working parent.

btw, stripey, it's always a bit of a giveaway when people say "i don't want to sound harsh etc" - that is exactly what they want imo!

thanks for the advice about following up with the lea and the diocesan office - i had planned to do this anyway. although i suspect they can do what they please.

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serenequeen · 27/08/2004 22:17

and actually, i don't see what is so wrong with resenting not being able to go to m&b groups as i had planned or take ds out as i'd planned to. i wanted to reduce his nursery days so we would see more of eachother - but if he is always at the nursery each day i will be very limited as to where i can take him (e.g. for an outing) and still fit in with nursery hours.

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crunchie · 27/08/2004 22:20

SQ I have to agree whole heartedly with you regarding the 2 1/2 hr session thing. School life is suited to families with one working parent - full stop.

It only gets worse IMHO. I have a 5 yr old and a 3 yr old, we were really lucky and able to have a nanny for a couple of years until the older one started school, but since then it has been a mix of childminders, school, and nursery (luckily not combined with your problem sq). This summer holiday has been awful. My poor 5 yr old have been dumped on two grannies, various school friends and in an emergency (I got my days muddled) with a next door neighbour!! The whole system sucks, I don't think kids should be at school full time or whatever, but it is so hard. We are contemplating having dh give up work so we can actually do all the stuff for our kids that we want to, such as after school clubs, ballet etc which we cannot do at the mo. Seriously it is not a SAHM v working row, but at least with one parent at home it is a darn site easier to cope with cra* hours at schools/nursery.

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aloha · 27/08/2004 22:36

I have put ds down for the local school nursery but also think it's a bit rubbish. I also don't want him there five days a week. Don't have any answers SQ but sympathise - and my life is a lot more flexible than yours.

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