How to prepare for private school 7+ entry, any ideas?

[londongirl1]

Hello - my daughter's at a state middle school which we're really not happy with. She was privately educated up to last year - we then thought we'd change her to the local school, which was a mistake as she's just coasting and not putting any effort in, her work standards have slipped and she isn't challenged at all. So we're trying for an occasional place at a well-regarded academic girl's private school. She's got two months before the test. Was wondering what we should do to prepare? Any advice gratefully received!

[frogs]

The school should provide you with an outline of the expected standards for 7+ entry. For the north london consortium schools, they're all pretty similar, though obviously different standards will be expected.

Check she knows the tables she needs to know (2s, 3s, 4s, 5, 10s, most probably, but check the requirements). Practise a bit of maths with her (the Bond maths papers are good) so she gets used to facing different types of questions. Make sure she knows how to react under time pressure, ie. move on from a question if she gets stuck and then come back to it if time at the end.

For English, make sure she can write reasonably accurate and interesting extended prose. And maybe run a reading comprehension or two past her.

Though actually I did none of this with my dd2 -- when faced with the option of teaching her the 3 and 4 times tables during the christmas holidays, I'm afraid I thought, 'stuff it'. She got offers anyway (city of london girls and SHHS) but decided against it as I don't really go a bundle on the whole pushy vibe. She still got places at all the selective schools she applied for at 11+.

Is your dd happy at the state school? If so it's relatively easy to make up for the academic deficiencies at home.

[wanderingstar]

My dd did 7+ last year and is now in a similar sounding school. (Do you want to say where you are ?) We did a few Bond papers, but not many. Mainly to experience different questions and to practise working to a time limit. I asked a few mental maths questions off the top of my head while walking to school.
I also got her to write a couple of stories shortly before the tests. Encourage the use of a wide and rich vocabulary for this; play word games and get her to find interesting synonyms for words which could go into a narrative.
I tried to make a lot of the preparation oral and in short bursts because the last thing I wanted was a stressed little girl.

Above all keep it low key and don't do too much. If it's a very academic school the pace is likely to be fast and the standards high; you'd want her not only to be able to keep up easily, but to have spare energy to enjoy the rest of what the school has to offer.

[Bink]

wanderingstar, what very good advice about the fast pace of extra-curricular things as well as the academic side.

I don't have experience of girls' entry tests at this age, but I do know that with boys whether or not they can write stories, and how well those stories turn out (organisation, originality, vocabulary) gets a lot of weight.

[wanderingstar]

Thanks Bink; 2 terms in, dd is very happy, but I'm glad she wasn't "overcooked" in order to get in, as we could have had a very different outcome. Her previous school was geared up to 11+ or 13+, so what little prep she had for the exams (2 whole mornings) was as described.

londongirl1, good luck. I know 2 people whose dd's tied for occasional places in different year groups at my dd's school. 1 got in and 1 didn't. Has the school given you any idea of the ratio of applicants to the number of place(s) available ? Each of my friends said there were 2 places available at the time.

[confusedandignorant]

The occasional places are harder to gauge for entry standards depends on competition. If they are desperate to fill a couple of places tests may be just a formality or you may have a real grilling.

[wanderingstar]

I think it was more at the grilling end of the spectrum for this school, with a high ratio. It might help londongirl to know, one way or the other, just in terms of how she pitches the preparation for her dd.

[wanderingstar]

Batters yes I agree, but sometimes even the brightest children could be "thrown" on the day if the've never done a test paper before. I don't think my dd had done anything like that at her old school. One of the things she was tested on apart from maths and English was some VR/NVR incorporated into the maths test. She did one page for me of each type, from a Bond book, said the "puzzles" were fun. I left it at thet.

Who knows; maybe she'd have got in even without what I regarded as my minimal home grown tutoring. All I knew was that lots of the local and not so local prepreps are geared up to the 7+ for her current and for other schools; toddlers are sent there specifically to be trained for that exam over a period of 3-4 years, whereas my dd's background was different. Private school yes, but completely non selective and much slower paced. Fwiw from what she told me about the maths afterwards, it was nothing like y2 school maths; more like pure logic. Maybe they were trying to avoid bias towards a particular type of school background for their candidates.

[singersgirl]

A friend was recently going round a London boys prep and was told that at 7+ they took very few state school applicants, simply because their schools do not prepare them for the tests in the way that the pre-preps do. They don't actively discriminate, but the pre-prep children are better prepared and therefore perform better in the tests. I already know y1 children who are getting tutoring on top of pre-prep for 7+ exams!

[wanderingstar]

singersgirl that's shocking !

[singersgirl]

I thought so too! One tutor is already booked, apparently, from the time the children start in Reception.

[londongirl1]

Thanks so much all of you for your suggestions - that's so helpful! Frogs, yes my daughter is happy at the state school, although she is keen to go for this other school too. And I feel quite strongly now that she does far better in the more disciplined and focused environment of a private school, so I want her out. Wanderingstar - thanks also for all you've said - we've been doing the Bond papers since she started at the state school (paranoid mum or what?!) - but those word games sound fun and I will get her to write a few stories, so she can practise - think she enjoys doing that anyway.

[shalom]

My dd did not like to write prose, so I found the best way to encourage her was to buy her a diary which she completed every day with what she did that day. I t really worked wonders.
She did 3 7+ exams and the one she did after starting to write in her diary accepted her. The Bond books also are execellent.
I also believe that schools that go up to year 1- 12 are also good as they are not just geared to passing the 11+ as they are already n a good school that other kids are eager to get int they therefore focus on being educated and not just boosting the school 11+ aceptances

[londongirl1]

Shalom - the diary is an excellent idea! I'll try that. Many thx ...

[Judy1234]

My second daughter went to North London Collegiate at 7+ entry but in the days when they didn't have an infants part (so more places at 7). I used to take her to school by train before that school and we'd sit on the train doing spellings and tables and a bit of reading which was quite fun and not pressured. She did have a tutor despite being at a private school (which did not prepare for 7+ entry) who was just experienced at what it was good to know for entrance exams and I felt happier paying for that but it wasn't huge amounts of cramming. It was practice papers and bits of advice about what was likely at 7+. My sister's children are doing 7+ exams next year but at a private school that goes up to 7+ and that school as well the normal (good) teaching is also obviously geared up to 7+ exams.

If many state schools are about a year behind private schools you can see why some children at 6 from state schools may not be as good at essays and tables etc.

[CODalmighty]

this whole thread is just wrong
she is 7 giver her a break

[CODalmighty]

no wonder our kdsi are stressed and pissed off

[Judy1234]

Why is it stressful to spend time with a parent reciting tables? It's no more stressful than sitting in front of the TV. In fact it means more parental interaction. My twins are 8 and the boys in the class all seem to love the tables competitions they do. It's a winning, competition boy thing for them. What is a problem is if the parents make it a big deal and transmit that worry on to the child.

[katwith3kittens]

Hopefully they'll leave school and be able to spell though !


LG - Good luck and go with your instincts.

[KristinaM]

Can i ask a question? Its a genuine question BTW and not a wind up or an attempt to make a point. What is the purpose of all the tutoring etc so young? Is it to get them into a good school at 11+. Is this just a local problem in london? is is because your state schools are so bad ? Is this just a cultural thing in your social circle?

I genuinely don't understand. We don't live in England and I don't knwo anyone who has hired a tutor for their child much before the age of about 14. We also have a 7yo who is "just coasting and not puting any effort in" but I'm not worried as she is only 7. I will worry if she is doing the same at 17.

Why do you have to do all this? Tuting, revision, entrance tests etc at 7??? Our children will get into the same universities as yours in the end, so why does it matter?

I know I am completely missing the point...please explain to me

[singersgirl]

Certainly where we live in London you can get caught up in a cycle of panic. If I want my child to get to a good university, then he has to get good A-levels. If I want him to get good A-levels, then he has to go to a good secondary school. If I want him to go to a good secondary school, he has to go to a good primary school. If I want him to go to a good primary school, he has to go to a good nursery.

Where I live (SW London) it's complicated by the fact that the most highly regarded academic boys' schools follow the public school system of admission to the senior school at 13, not 11 (which is when the state primaries end). So if you want your child to go to one of those schools, they really need to go to a prep school from 7, so that they are prepared for Common Entrance at 13. And if you want them to get into a prep school at 7, you may prefer to send them to a pre-prep at 4, which specifically prepares them for the exams they will have to take to be selected for the better prep schools.

So that is how it all starts. My sons are at state primary, but by Y4 I am already getting alarmed at how vast the gulf is between my son's achievements and the achievements of the children we know in private school.

[Judy1234]

K, it's just a middle class thing. When I was little my father came home for lunch every day (he is a doctor) and I remember very happy times after lunch in the garden in the sun talking to him about maths issues, psychology etc. I think it's not so much tutoring as wanting to teach your children and help them. I think most parents ought to spend a huge lot more time talking to their children which expands their vocabulary about all kinds of subjects as ramming times tables down their throats but for us and our culture and middle class background the tables/spellings is just a tiny bit of the day to day communication and education you pass on to children.

Sadly in England sometimes now you need to pay school fees to get your children taught things 50 years ago my mother was teaching in very poor state schools.

Also children want to learn and can love it so why not teach them? My mother taught us all to read before we were 5 not as some kind of hot housing experiment but because we wanted to know. Children have a natural curiosity to learn which if you can hook it young enough is a wonderful thing to observe. They also love competition and being best many of them and that helps you get on in this society so no harm in helping them there too.

[KristinaM]

thank you singersgirl, thats very helpful

so the reason you are worried about your children at Y4 is because if they are "behind" now, they wont pass the relevant exams later? and what woudl happen if they didnt get into teh " most highly regarded academic schools"? Are the alternatives so awful? . Again, its not a rhetorical question, I honestly dont know!

I am still confused....if your 7 and 8 year olds at their prep shoools are so much further ahead that my DD ( I am quite sure that they are ), why will she get the same A level reults as them in the end and go to the same universities?

Is thsi whole situation becase your state school are so bad that you feel you have no choice but to go private ( asuming you can get teh £££ soemhow) ??