Is there any league table that compares top state and private schools??? GCSEs and A levels

(25 Posts)
fredfortoday Tue 03-May-16 09:17:28

have seen some league tables touted around but for some reason a lot of the top public schools and private schools were not on it (not sure why). Can anyone please let me know what is the most comprehensive comparative table around even if not all the top schools (state and private) are on it and can they explain to me why some of the schools are not on it. Can they also please link me to it?

I think a parent told me it was due to the type of GSCE/A levels that are being taken - something about there being more advanced GCSEs but not sure what she went - there was only on type when I went to school back in the dark ages. Thanks very much.

Jeremysfavouriteaunt Tue 03-May-16 09:19:49

Some schools refuse to release results for league tables, some do IB, some do igcse.

Drinkstoomuchcoffee Tue 03-May-16 11:07:43

I think this link should give you what you are looking for.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/03/14/top-100-secondary-schools-by-gcse-results-2015/

At one stage, some of the schools that did IGCSE rather than GCSE appeared at the bottom of the tables as the IGCSE qualification was not recognised. But I think that has now been rectified and an A in IGCSE is trated the same as an A in GCSE
Other schools eg Bedales do not bother with I/GCSE at all.

As with all of these league tables you need to read them carefully. A school which selects at 11 or 13 will get better results than a school which does not. This is not necessarily a reflection on teaching standards. Clever children from supportive homes will get good results anywhere. Less clever children from disorganised backgrounds will find it much more of a struggle. No surprise that Kingston and Richmond schools do far better than those in Knowsley or Bradford.

cakeisalaystheanswer Tue 03-May-16 12:34:23

IGCSEs are still excluded from this table which is why it has missed all of the top performing Indy schools.

Jeremysfavouriteaunt Tue 03-May-16 13:12:19

That's interesting as ds school is in that table and they do igcse.

Jeremysfavouriteaunt Tue 03-May-16 13:14:55

Reading the small print, it says that 'certain' ones are excluded. The major public school next door to me refuses to release their data.

AnotherNewt Tue 03-May-16 13:41:36

I'd be a bit wary of The Telegraph tables as there are some glaring omissions.

Schools might not offer up their results to compilers of league tables, but the DfE collect and publish the data so I suspect that's the place to look for all schools.

What it doesn't do is attempt a value added score for independent schools as they have no baseline. So it's not going to help you decide if their results are typical progress for a (highly) selective school, or if they are getting those results from a not-so-selective intake.

cakeisalaystheanswer Tue 03-May-16 13:42:48

The certain ones includes English which is why it hits the tables so badly. CIE English is excluded because it includes a speaking/listening option, but most of the top schools (like DS's) don't do this module and follow the written final exam route with no course work.

Clavinova Tue 03-May-16 14:06:45

The Telegraph league table in the link above isn't very helpful though as it's a 'points' based comparison - any school which enters their pupils for 10 GCSEs instead of 9 can gain more points per pupil than another even if the pupils only achieve a Grade C in the 10th subject. Religious Studies GCSE for example is compulsory in some schools but not others. The Telegraph also gives the GCSE results as grades A*-C - obviously if you are looking at 'top' schools you want the A* to A grades. Looking at the table, Westcliff High for Girls for example is listed in 5th place and Tiffin Girls in 16th but Westcliff High 'only' achieved 12.4% A* grades (50.8% A* to A) and Tiffin Girls achieved 61.5% A* grades (91.5%) A* to A - so it's a nonsense really.

Likewise for A level results - any 'points' based comparison is likely to include General Studies A level or Critical Thinking which is compulsory for some schools but not others. General Studies and Critical Thinking are being scraped next year because they are not thought rigorous enough; www.telegraph.co.uk/education/11936173/General-studies-A-level-is-scrapped-for-failing-to-meet-standards.html

Jeremysfavouriteaunt Tue 03-May-16 14:18:58

A different spin;

trak.org.uk/true-league-tables/

namechangedtoday15 Tue 03-May-16 15:49:56

I agree with Clavinova - a points based league table takes no account of how many GCSEs each pupil does.

noworktodaywahey Tue 03-May-16 20:30:26

The Times does tables. Need to be a member to access.

TaIkinPeace Tue 03-May-16 22:21:15

The only truly trustworthy tables are the DFE tables (as schools have to comply with them)
but you have to compare like with like

lots of state schools use the IGCSE to massage their C/D boundary as its much easier than the GCSE

cakeisalaystheanswer Wed 04-May-16 12:51:29

DS sits IGCSEs except for the challenge language which is a language they learn in a year and they sit a GCSE for it. He is fuming about how much easier the GCSE languages are than the IGCSEs, you get told what's in the paper before you sit and they all get an A* despite hardly knowing the language at all. He couldn't attempt an IGCSE paper in his challenge language and the school wouldn't let him. So I am not sure how you've come to the conclusion that IGCSEs are much easier.

HereIAm20 Wed 04-May-16 20:18:02

Its the other way round to what TalkinPeace states iGCSEs are more difficult than GCSEs and go into greater depth in the subject.

Drinkstoomuchcoffee Wed 04-May-16 21:09:39

I think clever children jump through whichever hoops they are asked to jump through. Those that get to marks in IGCSE also get top marks in GCSE and vice versa.

Lookingagain Wed 04-May-16 21:38:12

I was just speaking to a friend today who is a secondary English teacher. She says that her school (a well regarded comp) switched to IGCSEs a few years ago and saw a big jump in their passes. This matches what TalkinPeace was saying.

I just don't understand why competitive independent schools would chose them. These schools don't have anyone getting a D or a C, so massaging that boundary is irrelevant for them. I am puzzled.

AnotherNewt Wed 04-May-16 21:47:57

They choose them because of lack of government fiddling, and because little/no coursework.

Lookingagain Wed 04-May-16 22:30:52

Ah, I see. Thanks Newt. smile

sendsummer Thu 05-May-16 06:19:44

I am not a secondary school teacher directly comparing iGCSEs and GCSEs but have had DCs do both as well as heard quite a bit of info over the years.
My conclusions are that It may be easier to teach and achieve C/D in IGCSEs in English Lang and maths due to a less time consuming syllabus for English Lang and more straightforwardly phrased questions particularly in maths. However higher grades in those iGCSE are not easier to achieve and in most other subjects skills required are greater, that appears to be particularly true for languages and probably for sciences. It was also for the top grades in maths but that may no longer be the case with the new GCSE.
There may also be a difference in difficulty between CIE and Edexcel iGCSE boards.

Catmuffin Thu 05-May-16 07:08:49

I don't have knowledge of either exam but had seen articles saying IGCE was easier.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10255180/Schools-moving-to-easy-IGCSE-exams-to-boost-grades.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11378406/Private-schools-should-drop-less-challenging-IGCSEs-says-Education-Secretary.html

sendsummer Thu 05-May-16 08:39:00

Tony Little, Eton’s headmaster, said he introduced IGCSEs because the conventional GCSEs, at least before the government’s ongoing reforms, were based on “box ticking” rather than “understanding”.

Little's comment about box ticking for GCSEs versus understanding for iGCSEs certainly rings true from my DCs' experience -at least for higher grades. It may be more time consuming and less rewarding for teachers to teach box-ticking

Mov1ngOn Thu 05-May-16 08:46:32

The article says general studies is being scrapped. Is critical thinking going too then? I taught that when I was a young teacher (mainly to oxbridge/medicine potentials) and it was fab.

cakeisalaystheanswer Thu 05-May-16 21:11:17

It is very easy to get an A* grade in a GCSE language without really knowing the language at all. I am shocked by the difference and I think it must be a huge jump up for GCSE students to A levels.
I have heard comments before that the D/C grade boundary is easier for IGCSE but DS is at a top performing school so that wouldn't apply to them. Like many schools they sit IGCSEs because there is no course work but now GCSEs are moving to all final assessment it will be interesting to see if any schools move back to GCSEs.

agapanthii Fri 06-May-16 15:18:16

Not so much a league table but a great place to go to gather all the available data on each school is schooldash.com. They are the people who have been putting out all the actual data on academy performance on the BBC

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