Declined a bursary because we earn too little!

[Gemima14]

I was just wondering how to tackle a private school that have declined a bursary on the basis they didn't want to put us under financial stress due to our limited assets and our financial outgoings and our income. I have heard of being declined because you earn too much or own too much but not this way around! Anyone else had this?

Apparently they don't offer 100% bursaries but I was wondering if I could ask them about my child going for a scholarship in year 7 and then topped off with a bursary? Or perhaps whether it would be cheeky to ask them what I would need to be earning in order to be in with a chance? I am currently self employed so my income isn't brilliant but I am in early stages of my business.

I don't really know how to handle these bursars. He has been very polite and we got the distinct impression on initial contact with the school that they would look favourably at us but now feel we have been cheated a bit as we have paid them a registration fee (which has been banked).
It was only this school we were interested in but I wonder now whether we should just find out if there are any schools that offer 100% bursaries or forget the whole thing?
Any help/advice would be really handy on how to progress this (or perhaps just leave it!).
Many thanks.

[absolutelynotfabulous]

Sorry no experience of this but were you offered the bursary before declaring your income/outgoings?

[happygardening]

What does the school's website say about any financial reward attached to a scholarship. Many schools now don't offer any or only a nominal financial reward to scholars it's just a status thing.
I suspect the school felt that realistically you would not be able to afford the fees on a regular (especially when you add in the usual termly extras) even if they gave you a substantial bursary and therefore you were likely to default on the fees in the future and then inevitably would be asked to remove your DC and that would be a very harsh thing to do.
It's sound like a mean decision at the moment but maybe in the long run the right one.

[happygardening]

Meant to say you could ask them what you would need to be earning to be considered but in most schools bursary money is very finite and by the time you achieved this you might find the funds have already been allocated. Bursars aren't stupid gone are the days when it's Colonel Blimp filling in the last few years before he retires now they are savy worldly wise accountants who amongst other things know that being self employed means incomes are erratic so they might need definite proof that you can maintain a certain level of income before they will consider you again.

[Iamnotloobrushphobic]

Do you know what the maximum bursary they offer is?
Most schools an be moved away from scholarships now or only offer very token amounts as scholarships.
I can sort of see the schools point of view because if (wild example) you earn £20k in total and would need to find £5k per annum in fees they might be concerned about how you will manage that and whether you will be able to fund the £5k for each year that your child should be at the school. They wouldn't want to be in the situation where your child is forced to leave a couple of years in due to family finances which was foreseeable at the outset.

Perhaps if you speak to the bursar and prove how you will fund the 'top Up' Fees they might be more willing to offer you whatever their maximum bursary is.

[Seriouslyffs]

That's shocking. At the very least they should have a note before applying advising of that and they really should refund the application fee.
Locally full fee bursaries are exactly that+ lunch+ school coach.

[Seriouslyffs]

And uniform. I'm cross on your behalf.

[TheoriginalLEM]

I am sorry but YABU. I would dearly love to send my DD to private school as she would benefit from the small classes and SEN provision (dyslexia) but I simply cannot afford it, and to be given a bursary for us would be a lottery because we are in a position now where we would qualify on financial standing (i suppose) but what about school trips? uniform? extras? all have to be paid for? Then what if our financial status changes a little for the better and takes us out of the bursary bracket and into having to pay full fees, there is no way we could afford it.

I have contemplated selling our house to pay for school fees but we have to live somewhere so would need to pay rent.

So its the state system lottery for DD :(

I do understand though.

[Gemima14]

No they don't say what bursaries they offer, but their vision/mission in the next 5 years (in prospectus) is to be more inclusive to those families that ordinarily wouldn't be able to afford private education.
I actually thought we would be turned down on the basis my husband earns too much!! He doesn't earn a low income but our outgoings are high, although no holidays or flash cars.
I completely understand why the bursar would take this stance as any fee would be difficult to find but I wondered whether if I went back to the career I was previously in if this would help or just hinder (then we would be earning too much?).
I declared all our cards at once although they didn't ask for it as I felt it was better to be honest up front - perhaps this went against us!
As someone pointed out this may be for the best but she has alot to offer the school (she is already in county sports at 10 and a bright girl) and I know the school could do alot for her too. The registrar was very keen when we mentioned how well she was doing in her sport as the school compete in this area. Ho hum! Its a complete minefield out there.

[happygardening]

Assuming the school hadn't actually agreed a definite amount before the OP formally applied then I suspect they would simply say that they didnt make any definite offer or not in this case until they'd actually seen and read the OP's financial situation. I do agree any application fees should be returned.
OP did you know before you applied that the school didn't offer 100% bursaries? Can you only send you DC if they get a 100% bursary. Did you think you could afford say 25% of the fees? Have you done realistic figures? Added in unforeseen bills? Can you demonstrate to the bursar that you could realistically afford say 25%? Have you enquired as to how large the largest bursary the school ever offers is? Perhaps more people applied this year for financial help then they expected and they've just got less money to share around, from a schools perspective it's better to have three on 25% bursaries than one in a 75% bursary.

[BrendaFlange]

Isn't it realistic?
They presumably don't want to offer a place to a child who will need to be withdrawn at a later date because the parents can' t afford the fees.
I agree that they should give the general guidelines, though, and that this will be one of their criteria.

I went to a fee-paying school and was frequently terrified and mortified that the school had to send reminder letters to my parents for the fees and that they were often late, and I also felt guilty that my parents stretched themselves to afford it, and hated going to the school as a result.

Bursaries are not primarily designed to be in support of children who can't afford to go - if they were private schools' fundraising efforts and business plans would all be geared to making their education fee-free / affordable to average people. Bursaries are geared to retaining their charitable status, which is of immense financial benefit, and keeping standards high by making sure they catch v high performers from less well off families.

I'm not saying bursaries are a bad thing, but it it's as well to consider 'what's in it for them' when considering any form of negotiation.

[happygardening]

Many schools have a "vision" of being more inclusive in the next five years but in reality very few offer 100% bursaries. Generally this will be the big names with matching big assets and waiting lists. DS's school (big name over subscribed full boarding school with very extensive assets and large fees) is generous with its bursaries and very committed to widening accessory but only offers 100% bursaries in "extreme cases" and I think according to the last report we were sent only two boys receive a 100% bursary.
If your still very keen on the school go and talk to the bursar about what income you would need to be considered but do check that any funds haven't for the year already been allocated it would be terrible to change your career and still not get any help!!!!
Finally the registrar is not the bursar, the bursar is the one who actually knows much money is a available and how the schools governors want it allocated, he makes the decisions about who gets what and obviously this changes on a year to year basis, there may have been other children who could offer "a lot" for the school (I'm not being mean just realistic), registrars are paid to be positive about potential children considering the school.

[happygardening]

Brenda the Charities Commission did rule a few years ago that schools don't need to offer bursaries to maintain there charitable status. Bursaries do enable children who can't afford the fees to go although as you said they are mainly offered to high performers the problem is that most schools can only offer a very finite amount of bursaries. The reality is that many independent school just simply don't have the money to splash around on large bursaries I'm told by someone in the know that even Christ Hospital with its long history of offering bursaries is struggling and increasingly trying to attract full fee paying students.

[Gemima14]

You have all offered very helpful advice and in all honesty we don't expect something for nothing and do understand that these schools are not charities.
I think what has really bothered us is that they wanted a registration fee up front and I feel that we have now given to charity rather than the other way around! Or perhaps gambled with our money! I can't find anywhere any information about having to pay up front for registering before applying for a bursary. Is it cheeky to ask for it back do you think?

[Seriouslyffs]

Gemima most private secondary schools are charities and you're not unreasonable to expect at the very least a detailed reason for their refusal of not the registration fee refunded.
My DCs went to a private primary (not a charity) and we were never asked for deposits or registration fees. It can be done.

[happygardening]

OP I think you could contact the bursar and explain that you paid the registration fees because you were given the strong impression that your DD was a strong candidate for a bursary and that fairly obviously you wouldn't have done this if it was never a goer and that would they consider refunding it. I suspect they'll mutter on administration costs etc. but as they say if you don't ask you won't get.
Seriously nearly all schools we've ever looked at over the tears require some sort of registration fee of at least £100 sometimes more, even those who are very over subscribed and thus a place is not guaranteed. I think most also clearly state on the accompanying paper work that the registration fee is non returnable. From a schools point of view I guess it stops parents registering their child with 20 schools.

[happygardening]

seriously the school has said that they feel that the parents earn insufficient money to afford the fees once a reduction for a bursary has been made, I'm not sure how much more of an explanation they can give. The OP could ask how this years money has been distributed and how much was available although details about individual bursaries are confidential. We get sent the schools accounts ?every year which my DH always reads very carefully I'm reliably informed in it amongst other things the schools total income is stated, where this income comes from, fees donations etc, the value of the schools assests and how it spends its money including how much is spent on bursaries, they also break done how many receive 10% 20% 50% etc and what the average bursary size is (65%). It makes very interesting reading the school is very assets wealthy and completely oversubscribed but interestingly the fees, which are one of the highest in the UK, don't cover the cost of running the school. So it's hardly surprising that your average independent school is not splashing large bursaries around to all and sundry whatever their "vision" for now or the next five years might be.

[Iamnotloobrushphobic]

How much was the registration fee?
Was it described as a registration fee or was it described as an application fee?
I know that I had to pay an application fee for each of the schools we applied to so that my son could sit the entrance exam. At the time of paying the application fee we didn't know if our son would get an offer of a bursary and we knew that the application fee was non refundable.
Registration fees only had to be paid if a place was offered and you wished to secure it. We wouldn't have wished to secure the place if a bursary had not been offered so we wouldn't have paid the registration fee.

[Gemima14]

Good point. It was a fee to register her at the school. I can understand schools doing this so that a place can be secured to stop parents from registering at all schools. We, however were up front and said it was only this school we were looking at and we would be applying for a bursary.

[Gemima14]

Good point. It was a fee to register her at the school. I can understand schools doing this so that a place can be secured to stop parents from registering at all schools. We, however were up front and said it was only this school we were looking at and we would be applying for a bursary.

[bodenbiscuit]

I've not heard of this happening before. I'm a full time carer but one of my dds has a scholarship and bursary to a very good girls boarding school. Do you think it could be because you're self employed and your income could differ from year to year?

All schools are different but the bottom line tends to be that if a school wants a child there they will do as much as they can to make it happen. I would be very annoyed about the registration fee. Is it possible thy you could try another school?

[happygardening]

OP I agree look for another school. The obvious one is Christ's Hospital who offer generous bursaries up to 100%. It's full boarding which may alarm you but read the thread for boarders on here it makes interesting reading and may change your view.

[Iamnotloobrushphobic]

So you paid to register her at the school before you had received a formal offer in writing stating your bursary amount?
If you did this then I wonder how many other parents have also done the same. Was this a mistake on your part or did the school lead you to believe that you were definitely going to get the bursary you needed and could therefore take up the offer of a place?
If the school have misled you and offered a bursary which they have later withdrew then you have good reason to expect your registration fee to be returned. If however the school made an offer in writing with no mention of bursary assistance then I think it is your mistake to have made an assumption that a bursary would be provided.
Was it a very large registration fee?

[Gruach]

The registration fee is IME only the beginning of the application process. It puts you into the system so you can be informed of relevant dates for entrance exams etc. I have never heard of one that guarantees entry to the school.

[Gemima14]

The registration fee I was told was the beginning of the application process to get her in the system so that the registrar could 'marry' together our daughter and the bursary application. They always knew we would be applying for a bursary. At no point had any offer been made as we had to put in an application but the registrar sent us all the papers, once she had received our fee. We did feel pressurised into it a bit as it was implied that without the fee the application could go no further. If they had offered some sort of bursary I would fully understand the fee.
I did wonder myself how many other parents are doing the same and how much money they are making out of this! Just the cynical side of me coming through.
We haven't been misled as such but were told that we were not to worry about our financial status and that it wasn't uncommon nowadays for parents to be applying for bursaries and that they thought that the school would be really good for our daughter - Thinking about I feel like it was a bit of sales pitch although we are in a small town and I would hate to think we were taken in by it.

[BetaTest]

IME schools are extremely cagey about what criteria they use to hand out bursaries and from what little I know who of who got them it is an extremely 'discretionary' process with very little scrutiny.

In short, that means you could have been turned down for all sorts of reasons and they are not going to tell you what they are.
as e was a bright child and threatened to pull him out of his existing school. As if by magic she got a very large bursary.

Another school I know well used to be run by a headmistress who assessed each parent as to what she thought they would pay and charged accordingly by allocating bursary and scholarship places. In economic terms this is what is called discriminatory pricing.

Even more black arts are used to get bursaries in my area involving 'contacts' in addition to completely off the books write offs of fees or 'fee holidays' also happening for certain people.

I can definitely say the private schools round here do NOT seek out bright but poor children from local schools and hand out bursaries. You have to be 'in the know'.

Sorry but its true.