Secondary school application gamble

[Zipitydooda]

I need to apply to secondary school for DS soon. We live in a London borough and have no good catchment school.
There are 2 (faith) schools that I'd be very happy for him to go to. Admission is a lottery once faith criteria are met and they are both heavily over subscribed. There are good schools that we are just too far away from to secure a place. Then there is a sink school (our default catchment school) and a couple of pretty poor others that I think he'd get a place in if we applied. However, I really only want him to go to 1 of the 2 faith schools.
I need to choose 6 options:
Do I put the 2 I want and then 4 other good ones that we are not in the catchment for? I will then get offered the sink school and then what?
Do I put one of the pretty poor ones as 6 place as it's better than the sink school?
What is the borough's responsibility? To offer a place on my list of choices or to offer any place? If he gets given a school that we haven't put in the list, do the borough put pressure on schools to offer places more than if he has a place that we put on the list?
It seems like such a gamble and rumour is everywhere (but good schools are not!)

[EldonAve]

Do you meet the faith criteria?
What about schools in other boroughs?

Have you looked at the distances offered last year for all the schools?
In general catchment doesn't exist in London

[titchy]

Put down one you can virtually guarantee a place at - that sounds like one of the poorer ones but not your 'sink' school.

The LEA is under NO obligation to offer you a place based on your chosen schools, and once they have offered you a place, anywhere, their responsibility ends. They will NOT put pressure on any school to offer more than their admissions number, unless as part of a long-term borough-wide initiative to satisfy demand.

[BertrandRussell]

Do you meet the faith criteria? If not, there is no point putting oversubscribed faith schools on your list.

What do you mean by "pretty poor" and "sink"? Have you visited and looked at the detailed stats about them?

The LEA has an obligation to offer a school place- but if you don't meet the criteria for any on your list, they will offer the nearest available place- which is likely to be the least desirable, for obvious reasons.

[Helenluvsrob]

If you only put the lottery schools and then the schools you know you are too far away for you will get allocated a school you did not choose unless you come up trumps in the lottery- that could be a long way away and as bad or worse than your " sink school".

If you need a state place ( ie you aren't planning to pay or HE) then the only sensible way is to place the " least bad " option that your child would qualify for a place at in last choice. If all else fails you will get that one and can appeal/go on wait lists for others having accepted that place.

All the other choices can be gambles, start with the one you'd really want at the top .

The computer would look then..
-did DC meet criteria for A - then they go in the lottery- get a place- that's the school they get. If not ( and only if not) look at B .
did DC meet criteria for B - if so into lottery - if no place look at C
did DC meet criteria for school C- yes- allocated- no look at D

D being " sink school locally" ... but we are sure we meet the criteria so child gets a place.

If you didn't meet the criteria for D or didn't put D down you would get the next nearest free place after everyone else has had their choices allocated. It's likely to be a school that noone wants.

If you apply to grammars those need to go 1st even if you apply " just in case they pass" . If DC doesn't pass for grammar then school B becomes the 1st school considered.

HTH . the think is to read the entry criteria carefully in each school guide.

[Zipitydooda]

Thanks titchy that's what I suspected but it's hard to dismiss all the rumours going around. Can I ask how you know this for sure?

To the other questions:
-Yes we meet the faith criteria
-When I say catchment, I mean max distance places last few years; distance is very tight for the better schools. Hence a good (non-faith) school 20 min walk is out of catchment for us. The other good near school is a faith school of a different faith that we wouldn't get into.
I am judging the schools on (amoung other things); results, reputation in the community, talking to parents with older children, the aspirations that my DS will be expected to have when at school, the likely social mix.

[BertrandRussell]

Right, so put the faith schools first. Then one of the ones you aren't in catchment for just in case. Then do some actual research (not just listening to anecdote) and put the two "pretty poor" schools in order of preference. Then the "sink" school. Because it's at least not 3 bus rides away.

you really need to look properly at all the schools- don't go by what people say.

[ScentedJasmine]

Be very careful with 'reputation in the community'. Sometimes views can be historic and you should take comments with a pinch of salt.
Also some people will label a school as 'sink' or 'bog standard' [very rudely I think] just because not perceived as having a middleclass enough catchment...
Go visit and make your own mind up...

[prh47bridge]

Agree with titchy. You need to put a school where you have a good chance of getting a place as one of your choices. The LA's only obligation is to offer you a place. They will offer you a place at one of your preferences if you qualify for one but if not they can offer you anything - usually the nearest school with places available. The LA will only ask schools to admit additional pupils if there is a shortage of places. As long as everyone has a place it is not their problem if lots of people didn't get one of their choices.

[Blu]

OP: Titchy, as well as PRH47, Tiggy and others know this for sure because the school's admissions code is law, and not flexible to the whims of councils or schools, or the conspiracy theories of parents.

[knittingwithnettles]

Also remember that waiting lists move very fast between March and September and you might be way way down the waiting list for your favourite schools and still get a place by Sept, so it is worth having the 6th choice as your insurance (and to reassure your child) but it doesn't mean you are necessarily stuck with it. Children want to know they have a place in A familiar school when the places are confirmed in March (even if that is not the school they end up with) You can stay on the waiting list for all the schools further up the list, and you will automatically be contacted. Remember that people get places that they turn down for all sorts of reasons.

[TeenAndTween]

And don't stress your child out by being unduly negative about any of the schools.
i.e. Well we prefer A, but if you end up at B then that will be OK
not A is super duper fantastic and brilliant, B is awful I hope you don't end up there