Independent school - doesn't provide test results or grades?

[Jzee]

I have seen a school which looks nice etc, but I am unable to find out their grades. The school does it's own internal exams which are not published to the public? Is this a bit strange??

[LadyMuck]

I assume primary? Not that unusual, but I would expect that they're bending over backwards to show you destination schools? Effectively you're looking at 11+/junior entrance exam passes/scholarships.

[Jzee]

Yes primary- and yes they do publish destination schools! So should I be asking them about their 11+ entrance exams? They like the children / boys to stay until they are 13. I just feel when you are paying so much that they should be a bit more upfront with their grades?

[LadyMuck]

But what would you be comparing against? They won't be sitting SATs (most likely - if they did, they would tell you). And 80% of children getting A grades at one school can't be compared against another school who are measuring against a different scale.

If you are familiar with the senior schools around then the destination list will probably give you the information that you need, though they may also tell you which other schools the children got into (but didn't take up). If you're in a grammer school area (11+ typicaly more competitive than entrance exams), then get details of number children sitting/passing. For 13+ you should know which the competitive schools are which will give you an idea, as well as looking at the scholarship record.

[Jzee]

Thanks Ladymuck for the advice. This is all new to me - I wasn't educated in the UK and I just want to make sure I know what I'm asking them.

[julienetmum]

We specifically chose dd's school becasue they don't do SATS. If they don't do them there is nothing to publish. Their own internal exams will be purely for the purpose of letting the teachers know what the individual children have learnt that year. They won't relate to the results of any other school.

What I mean is they could set an internal exam qith really really easy questions so everyone gets top marks or they could set a really tricky one to differntiate between the average and brighter children but this won't be relevant to you in comparison with other schools.

[wanderingstar]

My children's prep, like many, didn't do SATS in order not to be constrained by the National Curriculum. Agree that leavers' lists are a hefty clue as to how well the children are prepared for a range of senior schools, whether indepentent or state. But do make allowances if the prep is non selective; a list where at least some of the leavers are going to very academic schools will be all the more impressive then. My eldest ds is 13 and has just started at his senior school, having done Common Entrance. I know that some of the boys had offers from more than 1 school, (as did many of the 11+ girls, though their system is a bit different).

[LIZS]

Ours do sit KS2 SATS and also PIPs which are a measure of progress apparently. Even if they do sit SATS they ar enot obliged to publish results ! However agree with Ladymuck , look at where they move onto , what scholarships they achieve etc (although having a selective intake may skew the actual academic merit of the school itself), also success in other curriculum areas such as sport, art and music which may also merit scholarships to secondary schools, ask about turnover and how many families keep their children there from nursery to 13. Depending which schools they traditionally feed may determine how many leave at 11 and 13. Do talk to the Admissions Secretary and the Head to get a better feel for these sorts of things , they should be willing to share and also look at the Independent Schools Inspection report for strengths/weaknesses.

[julienetmum]

Yes, I agree about selection. Dd's school used to be selective when they only had 7plus entry but now they have opened a nursery and pre-prep it is completely non selective for entry at 3 or 4 plus, not even an interview.

[janinlondon]

Jzee when you say you are unable to find out their grades, how have you been searching? Have you asked the school directly? Our school does SATS, but we publish all our SATS results and leavers' destinations, as well as offers not taken and scholarships won. If they don't do SATS then leavers' destinations may be all you can get, but the school should be willing to talk you through it. Otherwise I wouldn't rate their parent-school communication very highly?

[Jzee]

Janinlondon; I asked the secretary for an indication of the grades or exam results and was then told they did their own internal exams which were not published to the public. They publish destination schools, of which some are very good, I'll just have to make further enquiries.

[Jzee]

Batters: Nope, there is nothing written in the prospectus with regards to results. They only mention the destination schools.

[julienetmum]

But there are no results to publish even if they wanted to. Results of internal examination mean nothing as they can't relate to anything so why publish them.

If the school wanted to publish them, to look good all they would need to do would be to set really really easy exam papers. Perhaps they set their exams to challenge the very brightest students, in which case the results will be lower.

Any parent who is primarily concerned with exam results may be better off looking for another type of school as non SATS schools often have a different ethos. The curriculum as a whole, the ethos, whether children are inspired to learn around the curridculum are all far more important than how a particular child may do on one specific day.

(so says the woman whose parents were told she would never pass an exam in her life due to nervous related asthma)

[cazzybabs]

You could ask they who they measure the children's progress. How do they ensure the children are making progress. Talk about value added progress - ie how much the school is moving the children on. It may be they don't publish results because they are not very good - but this doesn;t mean it is a rubbish school it could be they have really weak children and just to et them to a certain level the school is doing well, where as if you start with very very able children you would expect them to do very very well even if the teaching is rubbish. Assessment is a big word in teaching at the mo - so don't be fobbed off that they can't tell you these things they should be able to.

At my school ( a prep school) we do SATS and our children achieve better than average - but they do start better than average so you wuld expect this. However we do something could CAT tests which predict SATS scores, GCSE scores etc - so if our children do as well or better than expected we can put this down to good teaching.

hope this makes sense. Dh wants to go to bed and is being grumpy that I am mumsnet.