Any chorister parents who can advise?

[ChoirDilemma]

DS (8) has been offered the chance to become a chorister with a cathedral choir, and DH and I are in the throes of trying to decide whether this would be the right thing or not.

Joining the choir would mean that DS would have to board (although only weekly boarding in the probationer year). We are fortunate in that he already attends the school as a non-chorister day pupil, so he wouldn't need to change schools and he already knows many of the boys in the choir. He's the sort of personality that would be fine with boarding.

It's a fantastic opportunity, and as parents we've pretty much decided that if he wants to do it we'll support him. However, I'm struggling to gauge how much he actually wants it, and how to tell whether it's the right choice for him.

The difficulty is that although Ds is expressing an interest, he isn't jumping up and down with excitement at the prospect either. He's a contrary soul at times, and in the past has been known to turn activities down for no particularly good reason, only to clearly enormously enjoy them when persuaded to join in. So for the moment we're not asking him outright, but are giving him a chance to mull it over. He hasn't said anything to indicate he definitely doesn't want to do it.

I had (possibly mistakenly) assumed that all choristers were little prodigies who obviously lived and breathed music. DS isn't like that, but he does enjoy playing his violin (though he moans about practice) and at home he breaks into song constantly (and loudly!). He sings while he's doing homework, or playing, in the bath, at the dinner table, walking along the street, pretty much everywhere. He'll make up songs, sing snatches of hymns, even try to copy Latin lyrics that he's heard sung by the school choirs. I watched him sing in a school performance recently (before a choristership was even under consideration), and was really struck by how earnest, absorbed and comfortable he appeared while singing. He is a born performer and loves acting/plays etc. He's not that keen on the school choir he is in, but I think that is more a reflection of a personality clash with the teacher who leads it. He was honest with the choirmaster who auditioned him and said that he likes singing sometimes, depending on what he's singing.

I think it's quite possible he would love being a chorister. There are also lots of sound reasons why in his particular case the experience would be likely to benefit him. I've spoken to other chorister parents who tell me that their sons joined the choir just because they seemed to like singing, rather than because they openly badgered their parents to become choristers.

My instinct with DS is to gently encourage him to at least give it a go, but I'm not sure whether or not that's a reasonable stance to take. It's clear that life as a chorister requires enormous dedication. I don't want to push him into something that's fundamentally not right for him, but equally I don't want him to miss out on an opportunity that he might love. He is the sort of child that, once he began something like this, would be likely to get caught up in it and "discover" the necessary dedication, if that makes sense. But if he has to think about it, rather than being instantly keen, does that mean it's not the right choice for him? If he only likes singing under certain circumstances, rather than being desperate to sing all the time, does that mean it's not right for him?

Any advice from seasoned chorister parents would be most welcome!

[mummytime]

From your description - I would let him have a go. Part of the point of a probationer year is to try and see if both the chorister fits, and its something they enjoy. Also whether you as a family can cope with the demands, it is quite a commitment for you too.

Factors that encourage me to be positive are: he enjoys singing, he seems to enjoy a challenge, (he's obviously got the potential), you live close enough to see him if ill etc., he won't have to change school - either for the choristership or if he drops out.

Most choristers I know were not musical prodigies at 8, could find better things to do than practise, and are normal children. But they still often gain music scholarships to good schools afterwards.

[gonegrey56]

I would most definitely let him have a go. He sounds as though it would be something that he really enjoys and will get so much from - the bit about how your DS is always singing etc and seems to be an instinctive performer is fundamental. It could potentially open many other doors in the future and if he has a natural talent, go for it! "Gentle encouragement" is the right approach...then just see what happens. Your DS's musical director will guide you in the coming months.

[ChoirDilemma]

Thanks to both for your responses.

To be honest, I'm still a bit stunned by it all because we hadn't even considered this might be a possibility for DS until his music teacher contacted me and suggested it. He was happy to see the director of music and play and sing for him, and seemed to enjoy it (I didn't tell him beforehand that it would be an audition). I didn't prep him for it at all as I wanted the director of music to see him in the rawest possible state. I was expecting a polite "thanks, but no thanks", and was gobsmacked when it was a "yes". It's a very well-known choir and I assume they don't say yes to everyone who walks through the door.

Most choristers I know were not musical prodigies at 8, could find better things to do than practise, and are normal children

That's what I was looking for - very reassuring, mummytime .

I don't want to push him into something he really doesn't want to do, but equally I don't want to back off so much that he misses a fantastic opportunity.

[zebracustardcream]

I've name changed for this as our sons may be at the same school. Ds started as a probationer in September. He had a bit of a wobble at the end of the summer holiday but the boarding aspect for him is something he's got used to. All choristers have to board so there's a good community and the pastoral care has been good.
Ds doesn't live and breathe music but he never bloody stops singing to himself! He has enjoyed the singing, even though probationers don't join in with some of the stuff in services.

In terms of dedication - ds does his music practice when it's scheduled and works reasonably hard but I wouldn't describe him as dedicated! He does enjoy singing and playing his instruments but also likes lego, trampolining and dr Who... He finds the services boring in between the singing but says he's getting used to it.

We were in a similar dilemma this time last year. We went for the opportunity and it's worked for ds. If your ds is at the school already presumably he can see the boarding accommodation and talk to older choristers?

I've asked ds what he likes most about being a chorister. The answer is tuck night, singing stuff in German and missing assembly... probably doesn't help!

[hardboiled]

At that age it's difficult for them to jump up and down for something they don't really know. You could try it making sure he knows you will be ok with him stopping if he wants to. And make sure you are. some parents have a hard time giving up something they see as an amazing oportunity for their children.

[ChoirDilemma]

Thanks for responding zebra and hardboiled.

zebra, your son sounds like my DS, which is encouraging (and it might be the same school - if so I hope you're as pleased with it as we are ). Seeing the boarding accommodation is a really good idea, to give him a more concrete idea about what it would be like, will ask if we/DS can have a tour. He says he has talked to the probationers in his class and they say that being in the choir is "really good" and boarding is "really fun" so he's getting positive vibes from that direction.

hardboiled, if I'm honest I'd be disappointed of DS didn't want to at least give it a go, but only because I think he would enjoy it and get a lot out of it. If he tries it and it isn't for him then I'd be fine with him giving up, particularly as it would be a simple transition back to being a day pupil at the same school.

I think he's just taking his time to get his head around it all (DH and I are finding it hard enough, let alone an 8-year-old). He keeps mentioning little things about the choristers (today it was that so-and-so in his class was being made up from a probationer to full chorister), so I think he is processing it in his own way. Someone asked him today if he was going to be a probationer, and he said "Maybe", but in a thoughtful, considering way rather than a doubtful one. We'll just let him take his time over deciding.

[TheBlessedCheesemaker]

I'd say you should persuade him to go for it. Our eldest became a chorister (not boarding) and it didnt work out (hated the dressing up for cathedral, hated so many Sunday services). Even though it didn't work out, it certainly didn't do him any harm and he became very confident musically which then became a plus when he got really into drama.

[CoffeeBeanie]

Our son is a chorister (not boarding) and he has always been singing, everywhere, from when he was 2 years old. He could have become a boarding chorister at 6, but we turned it down, boarding is not for him.

He joined a different choir attached to his secondary school when he was 10, and even though I was a bit sceptical about the commitment, all those rehearsals (4 a week), Sunday Services, Easter, Christmas, Carol Services, Weddings etc all of them meaning half a day gone travelling to London, he has never once complained. He's almost 14 now and still enjoys it.

I'd encourage your son to join, even though I admit the boarding would put me off. If you and he are fine with it, why not? It is a very special environment where they can truly flourish. My ds certainly has.

[ChoirDilemma]

Cheesemaker, that's pretty much my attitude - why not go for it, if it doesn't work out life just reverts to what it is now. DS loves drama, and everyone I've spoken to seems to regard this as beneficial for being a chorister (and vice versa).

Coffee, I too would have turned down boarding at 6. DS would be nearly 9 by the time he began weekly boarding, and assuming he did a full probationer year, nearly 10 by the time he had to stay at weekends.

[Clobbered]

My son was always singing to himself and happily settled in his school. Becoming a chorister meant changing schools and a huge upheaval for him. I didn't talk to him very much about it beforehand as I didn't want him to be really disappointed if it didn't happen. Like you, I took him to the (what had been billed as an informal meeting but turned out to be incredibly full-on and formal) audition unprepared, and he was accepted. It was a leap in the dark for all of us, but one that we never regretted. He had a fantastic time as a chorister and it's an experience that has set him up for life with super-efficient work habits, self-confidence and incredible musical knowledge for his age. Go for it!

[ChoirDilemma]

Thanks everyone, it's been really helpful to hear such positive reports of the chorister experience from other parents - it has reassured me that we'd be right to encourage DS to give it a go. And the ancillary benefits of chorister training that have been mentioned (good work habits, organisation etc) are all things that DS could do with!

Plan is to have a chat with the HM, ask for a tour of the boarding house, and arrange for DS to attend a choir rehearsal after half term so he can see what it's like "behind the scenes". He is popular at school (and it's a small school so the older pupils know lots of the younger ones) so I'm hoping that DS turning up at rehearsal will get a positive response from the existing choristers, which might encourage him. We can't do a boarding trial as the boarding house is full, but DS would do a trial night in the summer term if we went ahead.

[summerends]

Choir disclaimer, not a parent of chorister but my DS knows a fair number of ex choristers from the most well known cathedral choirs.
Being a chorister provides an amazing musical education and experience of what it takes to achieve something at a high level as a team. Also if in the future your DS wishes to try musical theatre he will have had a good starting point. However there are some points you might want to consider. The boys who get the most out of it tend to be those who like to be very busy without minding the lack of time to themselves. They also need to be more than average bright with the ability to do their homework efficiently if they are to manage preparation for an academic secondary school. Depending on the choir there may not be much chance for individual voice training. There will also be less time for instrumental practice for those who are foremost instrumentalists rather than singers. If your DS is more of a performer he might rather spend the time doing a drama school rather than in cathedral services. I asked my DS whether any of his friends regretted being choristers. He said they did n't know anything different so difficult to say. However they are all very musical and so have made the most of that aspect.

[mummytime]

Umm two points. Not all choristers have to limit their instrumental time, or even sporting time. It's something worth asking about as it varies a lot from choir to choir.
Second of the girl choristers I know, a lot seem to be dyslexic - and still somehow do very well. I know there are dyslexic boy choristers too, it probably helps them become more organised. (And coloured overlay sheets can help.)

[ImBatDog]

while i never got to join a cathedral choir, i was a chorister and part of the Royal School of Church Music, and i got as far as what used to be called the Bishops Award (purple ribbon) and was training for my St Cecilia, but my sight singing abilities weren't quite up to scratch and i missed the age deadline in the end. I was also Head Chorister of my Church Choir.. and we were good enough that we used to get invited to sing the Cathedral Services during summer break.

my parents were reluctant to let me do it, because like your DS i was a bit flighty about clubs and activities, the Choir Master ended up actually coming to the house and i begged and pleaded and they let me do it.

I did it for 10 years and it was a fabulous experience, if either of my two were given the same opportunity i would jump at it. It took me all over the UK and even got me a part in a performance of Carmina Burana as the childrens choir and awards and trophies at school where i was given School Chorister of the Year two years on the trot :)

[summerends]

mummytime I agree with you that it depends on the choir and of course by academic secondary school we may not be thinking of the same type of school.
Whatever the rewards, being a boarding boy chorister at cathedrals with a lot of services (not shared with other choirs) takes time out from other things. Instrumental practice and homework are in slots of time and any overspill (more of a feature in the last couple of years at prep school) means even less evening downtime. There are IME some boys who find that rather stressful and end up rushing work when they would do better with more time and quiet relaxation. .School sports and even drama are usually fine at a junior level but the rehearsals,cathedral services and concerts obviously come first. I know of at least two boys with amazing voices whose parents decided not to go down the chorister route. One was a multitalented county sports player who still managed a lot of solo and choir singing and to win a music award at Eton. The other did weekend drama school which led to West End roles.

[mummytime]

I wasn't disagreeing, I just think the OP should ask questions as sport/instruments do vary so much from school to school. More and more cathedrals are setting up girls and other choirs at least partly to ease the work load for boys ( is it 2 or 3 services on a Sunday? Do they sing different music for each service or repeat, as I discovered some do).

We're also not saying all choristers are incredibly hard working, I've known one ex-King's chorister/ Eton music scholar who openly admitted he was a bit lazy and didn't achieve his full potential academically (still pretty good).

[summerends]

mummytime choristers like most boys may not be naturally studious and in fact have a very good excuse to put less effort and time into study. There are however (and always will be) boys who manage to fit everything in a chorister life and be bright enough to achieve what they need to do academically. That does n't prevent the restricted time of a chorister being a disadvantage for other boys.

[zebracustardcream]

On instrumental standards there is a sharp divide between choir schools that are part of a school going to 18 and those that are prep school only. The latter, if they're good, will be aiming to ensure that the choristers leave for their senior schools with music scholarships, so many of them have extremely high standards, and the boys are given enough time to develop on their instruments as well as with their voices. Schools which go all the way through don't have this incentive. One I looked at had choristers who didn't learn instruments - and I can understand why, given their schedule.

Mummytime is right - sport and instrumental stuff does vary from school to school.

[ChoirDilemma]

Update, for those that enjoy them...

So, after attending a rehearsal, visiting the boarding house and thinking it over, DS decided he did want to go ahead with a choristership application.

We had been given a very straightforward positive response to his first, informal audition. As a next step he had to undergo a formal audition with some other boys. He was very nervous but went through with it. Unfortunately the verdict from the second audition was that they liked his voice but were concerned that his range wasn't high enough. Because of the discrepancy between his performance at the two auditions, he was offered the option of a further audition, but we decided that it wasn't a good idea to take things any further if he was only a borderline candidate.

We have been very clear to DS that we are in no way disappointed that he won't be a chorister. In fact, we have emphasised that we are really proud of how he handled some quite daunting experiences, like the formal audition, and how mature he's been over the whole decision. Thankfully he wasn't upset at hearing that he hadn't got through the audition (which is probably a bit of an answer in itself!).

So not an entirely happy ending, but I think the right one for DS. To other parents faced with a similar dilemma, I would say it is definitely worth seeing the process through, even if things don't turn out as expected. DS had some interesting experiences along the way, and I was pleasantly surprised by how mature he could be in stressful circumstances. I hope that it's helped see DS see the benefits of trying out new opportunities when they arise (might have to add some caveats to that when we get to the teenage years though ).

[mummytime]

There are plenty of other Choirs around if he wants to take his singing further. Do praise him for giving it a go!

[hardboiled]

Oh thank you for the update. Not many bother and it's always nice.
Good of him to give it a go and take everything so well.

[summerends]

Sounds as though you can be very proud of him. The fact that he won't be a chorister means that he will have more time to do drama as well as singing in the future.