How important is headmasters report for RGS/Hampton/KCS

[blibbyblobby99]

I've been reading all these pre-test posts with great interest as DS will be going through the process next year for 13+ entry. I was wondering if any of you had any insights into how important the headmasters's report is in the process. DS is in the top set in his prep school but by no means at the top. There are a couple of boys who have Cognitive Ability Test scores in the 130's (DS'are in the low 120's) and they consistently score the highest in all the exams....does this mean that if they are applying to the same schools as my DS, that he won't have a chance as on paper they are always going to look a lot better than him? We are very keen on some of the more selective like RGS, Hampton and KCS but if the odds are stacked against us at this stage, perhaps we should be setting out sights a little lower...or am I being defeatist...if one of the class "genius'" has a bad day and my son has a super amazing day on the day of the test, could he still be in with a shot? We haven't had our meeting with our prep school headmaster yet, so I am sure he will have an opinion, but need to prepare myself!

[happygardening]

If your head supports your application then he will write a supporting reference. He's clearly not going to say he's a genius but with an IQ in "low 120's " he's still well above average. I don't know the schools you mention by anything more than name and that they are over subscribed but assuming your prep regularly sends boys there you head will know what they are looking for and how strong a chance your DS has. I suggest you make an appointment ASAP to sound him out.
Good luck.

[blibbyblobby99]

Good idea - I should probably ask the head. My son's prep does send boys to they schools but not very many...only 1 or 2 every year to each of them because it's quite a small school! Hopefully I 'll get an honest answer as I'd hate to get DS all psyched up if he doesn't have a real chance.

[inthename]

Normally as happy says if the head supports your application then the reference will be supportive. I only know RGS of the 3 you mention. Normally prep school heads advise to chose 3 - an aspirational, a good chance and an absolute certainty. With more schools pre testing earlier it means that (providing you can afford the registration fees!) your ds can sit for more schools if you wish. Your head will probably advise to have a slightly less selective school in mind as well.

[Hulahaha]

120 is fine - it's only an indication- 120 equates to schools that need 65+% at CE - so Hampton is fine as is KCS . My DS prep cut off at 120 so I never did know how high his Cat scores were which is probably just as well . If he scored 121 etc I would have had the same worries . Honestly now I'm through the other side 70% at CE is perfectly do-able too .

[cakeisalwaystheanswer]

Are you aware that KCS are cutting their intake from 60 to 35 for 13+ entry from next year? Anyone set on KCS will sit for one of the 44 new 11+ straight into senior school places for Y7 without having to sit CE later. It will be interesting to see how many in 13+ preps jump at 11 as if they don't it will reduce the number of 13+ places available in London.

[serendipity200]

I know that KCS look for a minium of 130 and CLBS 125, don't know about Hampton or RGS.

[makemineadouble72]

I've heard the same....but it doesn't stop some headmasters telling parents to "have a go" even if their CAT scores are lower (but then suggest they try some other schools). I could never figure out if they genuinely mean it or if headmasters don 't like to be too honest with parents - while behind our backs they are brutally honest with the senior schools.

[Armpitt]

isnt 115 the mean Cat score?

[pineapplechick]

The national average CAT score is 100 - that's how the scale is set. About two thirds of the population score between 85 and 115, which counts as "average" (but 115 would be on the top end of average). Roughly speaking, 115-125 generally counts as "above average" while anything over 125 indicates a "high achiever".

[Armpitt]

Ta piney

[MaeMobley]

I have never heard of CAT scores. Is it a private school thing? or do state schools do it but not tell us?

[Armpitt]

state do too

they might not share with parents

[Statslover]

Serendipity. I can't claim to have any inside knowledge about the criteria for the schools listed, but I do find the quoted CAT scores for KCS in particular surprising. My understanding is that a CAT score of 130 is in the top 2% of the population.

There are maybe around 100,000 boys of each school age group in the whole of London and the South East. So only 2,000 boys a year in the whole of London and the South East form that top 2%. Now let's be wildly optimistic and say that 40% of those boys have access to one of the top grammar schools or have bursary places or can afford private school fees - that is 800 boys in total. Between the top 3 say (St Pauls, Westminister, KCS) and the most selective grammars there must be at least that many places. But many of the boys will go elsewhere - for example the likes of RGS, Hampton, Habs, Tonbridge, Sevenoaks, COLB, as well as boarding at Eton and Winchester. So the numbers just don't work.

My conclusion would be that the minimum (untutored and genuine!) CAT scores required are actually lower - more like 125 for the very top tier (so top 5% of the ability range) and closer to 120 for the rest (so top 10% of the ability range).

Also, performance in one CAT test alone should be treated with a degree of caution. A range of scores is quoted in practice because, as with any other test, performance on the day for an individual child can be quite variable.

My conclusion for the OP would be that with a CAT score in the low 120s and good preparation aiming for the likes of RGS or Hampton is not unrealistic.

[serendipity200]

statslover, the 130+ is what our school was told by KCS, would love it to be less! We know that some schools ask for a range of CATs to be submitted with Headmaster reference. Our school record twice a year from year 2 and they let parents have both year 5 scores at the end of year 5 to assist in choosing schools, yes, our school does say give it a go to boys who score consistently between 125 and 130, but to have back up schools too. In reality the boys who get offered KCS are the ones who also get offered StPauls, Westminster, Harrow, Eton etc. But definitely a boy with low 120s (very bright who have achieved top GCSE and A level results have gone on to Hampton, Trinity, Dulwich, Whitgift, Sevenoaks, Charterhouse, Epsom and Winchester etc. I guess that if there are only 15 places available at 11+ at KCS, this would push the required CAT level up.

[serendipity200]

statslover, I do love your stats though!

[Statslover]

Serendipity, yes, I agree that if the main entry points are 7 and 13 and only a few join at 11, then it's likely to be toughest at 11 and a CAT scoreq of 130 may be right, but I still think it must be more like 125 at the other entry points as there are just not enough boys for all the top schools to only have boys in the top 2%.

[serendipity200]

In our school of 35 boys, 5 are consistently over 130 including two at 140 and approx 12 at 120+. We are non selective, and have boys operating at

[pineapplechick]

Serendipity, that's interesting what you say about St Paul vs KCS - that was also my impression based on the boys I know who have got interviews or places at both schools, but the general opinion seems to be that SP is at least as academically demanding. Out of interest, what does your school say about Westminster? Certainly in DS' class there are boys who got an interview at SP but not W, but not the other way around. DS only sat for W and has an interview; we'll find out on Tue if he also has one at KCS.

[pineapplechick]

I meant to add that DS' CAT score is in the low 130s.

[shoutymcshoutsmum]

For the rookie over here, is the CAT score based on reasoning paper alone or a combination of maths, english and reasoning or something else entirely? Thanks

[snowsjoke]

Ours are; VR, Quantative and Non-verbal Reasoning. We do separate English CATs.
Do you think the schools would be looking for consistent CATs levels from Year 4 upwards? Ds are good - high 130's/141 maths but separate English writing test just about above average.

[snowsjoke]

OP it's worth a try but imo a Headteacher will not fully support an application unless they believe the applicant is in with a 'good chance'. I suppose they wouldn't want to damage their reputation/lose credulity with the Senior Schools. The job of a prep is to manage parental expectations I guess. 120's CATs sounds good to me though and certainly in with a chance.

[serendipity200]

Our cats are based on Maths, English comphrension, writing, spelling, reading age and VR. DS 139 maths, 139 VR, reading age 16, then downhill from there 124 english and spelling 115.

[snowsjoke]

Our ds has a similar profile Serendipity200 (but ds reading age 14 - he's in Year 4). We had been wondering about Westminster Under School but I think they may be looking for consistently high scores across all subjects? Ds English writing letting him down at the moment but we still have a year and a half until the Grammar school exams and a little more time for the Independents - hoping he'll improve by then but if he doesn't then those 'top tier' schools are not for him. I'd feel quite sad as I loved WUS on the open day and it would suit ds.
What did you decide to do OP? Maybe at 13+ entry they are looking for more of an all rounder?

[serendipity200]

snowsjoke - DS passed all of the Sutton grammars and Tiffin (won't know if he is actually offered any until March) so a good chance for your DS given his profile pineapplechick, W is seen as the toughest to get into by our school.