how many children can be in a year 2 class

(12 Posts)
kiwibella Mon 16-Dec-13 18:13:08

My daughter has been fortunate to be in a very small Year 2 class. Hers currently has 17 children and the other Year 2 class has 21 children.
However, due to a teacher's sudden departure higher up in the school, one of their teacher's will be replacing that one... and my daughter's year group will become one class, with one very good teacher, an unqualified teacher, and a TA.
My question is this a legitimate arrangement and likely to be successful?

tinselkitty Mon 16-Dec-13 18:26:33

KS1 used to be limited to 30 per class but I have a feeling that's been removed now.

That many Y2s will be tough for any teacher. I'd def be having words with the school. If it's temporary then fine, I wouldn't be happy if it's going to be that way till July though

AuntieStella Mon 16-Dec-13 18:32:08

3 adults to 38 DC sounds fine (and so schools combine even bigger groups).

In an LEA school, two if those adults would need to be teachers (there always have been unqualified teachers in state schools, but unless old/experienced, you'd expect a recognised qualification). In academies/free schools, there is no regulation of the formal qualifications of teachers.

I feel old - when I was at junior school, it was 40 pupil to one teacher!

kiwibella Mon 16-Dec-13 18:43:26

I know that class numbers were higher but it has become the "norm" to be around 30 children in a class.

This is not a temporary arrangment. It is an intended change.

I am also a teacher and can't quite comprehend being responsible for the assessment of 37 children!!

tiggytape Mon 16-Dec-13 19:08:15

The limit for Year 2 is 30 children per qualified teacher (the same limit applies to all of KS1 and has not been removed although it can be ignored in special circumstances)
There is no requirement to have a TA and a TA does not count in any ratio figures.

Whether you are over the limit or not depends what you mean by an "unqualified teacher" Do you mean someone in their first year of teaching or do you mean an adult who is a helper not a teacher at all?
It also depends when the change will take effect. This would be no problem at all for a Year 3 class and is only potentially a problem in Year 2 if only 1 of the 3 adults is a teacher

tiggytape Mon 16-Dec-13 19:09:42

And the reason it is the norm to have 30 per class is down to funding (as well as increased demand for places in many areas that mean no school is short of the maximum numbers).
It isn't cost effective to have any less than about 22 children per class as that's what is needed just to cover the teacher's salary and basics.

kiwibella Mon 16-Dec-13 19:11:25

we don't know the status of the "unqualified teacher" who has been promoted to this class. She has been a TA in school for several years. School have written to us addressing her as an unqualified teacher. I assume that this means she has been under-taking some sort of training or mentoring.
There is no dispute that she is not fabulous! The children adore her and she has helped many children improve their learning.
The question is around the change in class arrangement to now more than 30, albeit across two classrooms and supported by two extra adults.

tiggytape Mon 16-Dec-13 19:13:57

Some schools have classes of 60 with 2 teachers or classes of 90 with 3 teachers. It isn't the number of children in the class that's ever a factor, it is the number of qualified teachers assigned to that class. It is the ratio not the absolute numbers that matter (in terms of meeting the regulations on such things - in terms of an ideal teaching environment, 90 children in an open plan class sounds horrendous!)

kiwibella Mon 16-Dec-13 19:17:39

thanks tiggytape.
Are you saying that the ratio at KS1 is 1 qualified teacher : 30 children?

tiggytape Mon 16-Dec-13 19:23:46

Yes - that is the ratio.
Sometimes schools exceed this eg a child with a statement is admitted part way through the year or a child wins an appeal or a child is admitted under the FAP (emergency measures to find places when all schools are full). But officially, 1:30 is what they should stick to until Year 3 when they can have as many children per teacher as space permits.

prh47bridge Mon 16-Dec-13 19:25:53

As tiggytape says, this depends on the status of the "unqualified teacher". If she is on an employment-based teacher training scheme, for example, this arrangement is legal. However, if she is a TA, higher level TA or support staff it is not.

kiwibella Mon 16-Dec-13 19:32:29

thanks prh47bridge
I suspect she is most likely on a teacher training scheme, like you suggest. It is a question that I will be asking the school, for clarification.

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