Teachers Strike Using children as a weapon

(175 Posts)
Ruimon Sat 12-Oct-13 23:16:58

Teachers should not use children as a weapon for their politically motivated demands. Who pays teachers wages? Why have they got so much time to organize strikes? We have all had to forgo pay rises and reduced pensions due to the last government and the banking scandal, why should teachers be any different.

Ruimon Sun 13-Oct-13 00:37:38

Being a teacher is a position of responsibility I view it as a proffesion, a career, the ability for teachers to be able to turn children's education on and off like a light switch to " improve their pay and conditions " clearly in any sane society is unreasonable. As I said at the start of this thread many , many people have had to sacrifice pay rises and have cuts in pensions in order to sort the economical mess out. Why are teachers any different? Are they some exalted species that live outside the realms of reality? It,s not about the children as some posts have said its about being against government policy and protecting vested interests. I don,t know why those teachers promoting the strike can't at least be honest enough to say so.

Strumpetron Sun 13-Oct-13 00:41:35

Right hold on so teachers should just be martyrs then and teach our children even though they're being figuratively shat on?

Why should they provide a service if they aren't being paid adequately for it?

Because that's what it is, a service. Teachers have had their pays slashed and pensions STOLEN.

Like you say, it's a profession and it's very important that our children get a good education - so it is also important that the people doing this aren't being treated badly

BitBewildered Sun 13-Oct-13 00:41:42

What bunchoffives said..

Strumpetron Sun 13-Oct-13 00:43:55

I'm not a big fan of strikes, but as a last resort I see why they happen. The best way to get someone to listen is withdraw the thing they need from you.

Children aren't going to suffer because of one strike day.

Devora Sun 13-Oct-13 01:00:35

Are your views NOT distorted by your leanings, Ruimon? smile Of course our leanings distort our views, and our views distort our leanings.

But the lesson of the 1970s is that too much power corrupts: that is why so few people mourned the demise of the unions. But too much power corrupts all institutions and organisations, and that is why we need unionised labour.

I don't support every strike. But in this case I do support the teachers - and suggesting that one can only do that if one is (a) a blinkered over-zealous lefty, or (b) wanting to return us to 1973, is just daft.

creamteas Sun 13-Oct-13 11:51:02

As I said at the start of this thread many , many people have had to sacrifice pay rises and have cuts in pensions in order to sort the economical mess out

Since the global banking crisis there has been no new regulation to stop it happening again. Why is that? One reason is that the wealthiest people have no serious opposition due to the lack of collective organization by ordinary workers. Maybe if more of them were in unions and willing to take industrial action, we would be looking at a very different situation.

Trade union legislation in the UK is extremely restrictive, and strikes are only called as a last resort. It is the last weapon that we ordinary people have and whilst it is inconvenient, I support the right of all workers to take this action.

Poundpup Sun 13-Oct-13 12:26:35

I do not get aggreivated about strike action, unless the reasons to strike are petty. Therefore I believe that you need to understand the reasons for strike action before taking a stance and not necessarily believing what the press has reported.

In the case of the teachers strike. They are upset regarding a number of changes to their terms and conditions.

Pensions. Yes, I agree alongside everyone else they will need to make greater contributions to their pension. That is hard, but due to bad decsions made by our leaders ALL workers who pay into pensions have been effected. However, I do not agree that teachers should have to work until their 67 or 68 until they can retire. I mean, be realistic, what 68 year old could manage a class of 30 kids. I also feel the same about the Police, armed forces, fire service etc. It doesn't make sense. There has been no alternative offered, despite the unions sitting at the table with the government.

Performance related pay. I would love to hear the reasons why performance related pay in schools is a good idea. They are not working with machines but children, and anyone who is a parent knows that children will generally learn when they are ready. That is why some reception children can read as soon as they start school but others will flourish later on. I am worrried that this will lead to the best teachers only applying to work in nice green, leafy areas. How will this benefit society as a whole? I am not advocating that poor teachers should be let off but there has to be a better way. Again the unions have sat down to discuss this but the government does not want to hear their views.

Education is important for society as a whole. Teachers have been bashed a lot in the press, at times completely unfairly, but on the whole I am behind the teachers on this one. Yes, it is annoying to make alternative childcare arrangements but how else can we the people make our leaders listen?

ipadquietly Sun 13-Oct-13 12:52:16

At the end of the day ruimon, teaching is a job, just like any other. Any person in employment must have freedom to question their pay and conditions and to take action if they are unhappy.

As I said earlier, moving retirement age for teachers from 60 to 65+ is ridiculous, because of the physical, mental and time-consuming demands of the job. I think it's a cynical move to pay less in pensions in the future as teachers find they are forced to retire early. (I listed the demands on the average, bog-standard teacher in an earlier post.) To imagine that people will be able to sustain the pace in their late 60s defies belief.

soverylucky Sun 13-Oct-13 13:15:57

As I said at the start of this thread many , many people have had to sacrifice pay rises and have cuts in pensions in order to sort the economical mess out. Why are teachers any different?

Teachers are no different to anyone else. What they are doing is what others in the private sector could do - join a union and go on strike as they are legally entitled to do.

I feel very sorry for those in jobs who are not allowed to strike - I know that includes some medical staff. Everyone should have the right to strike.

In a 13 year teaching career I have been on strike once. I won't get paid. If it was just about a day off then I could just phone in sick. I am trying to make a stand against something that I feel very strongly about.

soverylucky Sun 13-Oct-13 13:17:08

I am sorry if my last post does not make sense - I am getting fed up of these threads now. We were on strike in the summer term. That is the only time I have ever been on strike.

BackforGood Sun 13-Oct-13 13:26:07

Great Post PoundPup

keepsmiling12345 Sun 13-Oct-13 13:59:20

The OP's rantings are so simplistic and extreme that I almost couldn't be bothered to post. And then I thought, since OP has clearly decided that only teachers support the strike action, then I should at least post to say that as a parent (and one who is going to have to juggle work and childcare with DD's school closed on Thursday) I have reviewed the reasons behind the strike and support the teachers taking action.

Custardo Sun 13-Oct-13 14:03:52

as workers, if in any job, you unionise you shouldbe able to use your collective power and withdraw your labour to negotiate more favourable terms.

if your argument is that you can't do it - then perhaps the fault isn't with the teachers - whohave excellent unions, but with your own workplace. perhaps you should join a union

chicaguapa Sun 13-Oct-13 14:08:00

I've yet to read a coherent, well-articulated and punctuated post from someone slagging off the teachers. I can barely read the OP's. Is there a correlation, do you think? wink

Pistillate Sun 13-Oct-13 14:15:45

Your view is distorted by your leanings

Same to you!

re performance related pay, this insight into Mr Gove's understanding is helpful

if "good" in his tiny mind means above average, how can all schools be classified as "good" as he requires?

I am quite disappointed that no staff at our school has been on strike - I fully support them, they are being shafted. I am not a teacher. But I have been a public sector worker.

insancerre Sun 13-Oct-13 14:22:26

I work in a private day nursery and am very jealous of the teachers and their ability to even join a union and have them represent their interests let alone be in a position to vote to go out on strike.
So, every credit to them and up the workers!

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 13-Oct-13 14:23:43

Ruimon

Why are you not complaining about gove using children as a weapon?

MerryMarigold Sun 13-Oct-13 14:37:34

Yy. I can't actually think of an education minister who's been less concerned about CHILDREN, let alone teachers. I'm particularly worried about kids who don't learn in a formulaic way or have even an ounce of a special educational need.

OP, I'm sure you and your kids are fine. It's time to think about what other people/kids and teachers need out would that be too 'lefty' for you.

MerryMarigold Sun 13-Oct-13 14:40:00

Oh yes, meant to day neither myself nor dh are teachers.

insancerre Sun 13-Oct-13 14:41:42

agree MerryMarigold
Gove eminds me of my old History teacher at the grammar school I went to.
He absolutely hated children and loved to humiliate them and was actually a very scary man. He had no warmth, no compassion, no patience, no funny stories, no personality.
He got off on the authority, I think.

chosenone Sun 13-Oct-13 14:56:16

Yes Ruimon. Tis Gove using children as a weapon! PRP based on the achievement's of students? So everyone races to havr the top sets, and resents the bottom sets or SEN children ? State schools do not/have not been selective therefore have children of a huge array of abilites, children with SEN yet we will be paid based on our success with these students ( against targets that seem to be plucked out if the air!) That is using children as political weapons !

creamteas Sun 13-Oct-13 15:34:50

insancerre Every worker can join a union regardless of your employer. I think Unison represents childcare staff.

If enough of your colleagues join as well, you can then get your employer to recognize the union for the purposes of collective bargaining.

If you contact Unison (or another union) they can help to make this happen.

insancerre Sun 13-Oct-13 15:45:55

I know all that
Have you ever worked in a private nursery?
It's not like we have hundreds of staff- there are 5 of us.
I'm sure it says in my contract that the componay doesn't recognise any union for collective bargaining

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