ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
Gay kids in school : they do not realise how far society has come.(86 Posts)
Was collecting DD from an event at school the other day and one of her incredibly camp friends was tease flirting with some of the boys.
And they all just take it as read.
that one is blonde
that one is tall
that one is a girl
that one is gay
that one is brown
and I realised how incredible the change is from 30 years ago when I was at school and Tom Robinson was in the charts.
People may moan about education
BUT the tolerance and acceptance being developed in our children will allow them to get the maximum potential out of everybody without the racial and sexual constraints we faced
which can only be for the good?
then in the next breath say, except those people, who live in a way I don't approve of
Where did I say that?
All I said was that any school that selects, by definition excludes, therefore is not "inclusive"
But clearly I touched a nerve in a few people
How can I be anti schools that select by god, wallets and genitalia when I went to one?
And the point of the thread was to be glad that Tom Robinson no longer has to sing that song.
Dd's teacher was asking all the class the other day for their opinions of a song.
One boys view was that it was "fucking gay"
Teacher told the boy off for swearing and said he should just say "gay"
I'd have prefered it if the teacher had pulled him up over using gay as an insult rather than the swearing to be honest.
I was at a very dull industry conference recently, and was making small talk over coffee with a stranger from the banking profession when she said "blah blah blah and my girlfriend says blah blah". I was that I am suddenly living in a world where a junior banker will casually mention that she's a lesbian in the course of work-based chit chat. Who says there's no such thing as progress? In the twentieth century I worked with a bloke for ten years before he got drunk and came out.
any school that selects, by definition excludes
And many comprehensives select by virtue of who can afford to live in catchment.
If you are including me in your "touched a nerve" comment then no. I simply thought you were talking utter nonsense when you apparently tried to give comprehensives sole credit for teaching tolerance and acceptance.
I think the world has moved on hugely.
At DD's school (independent girls school) there are openly gay girls. Some in relationships.
Even at DS school which is uber trad, most kids are not homophobic. Although DS did have a major barney with his mate about it. Mate is African and comes from one of the most homophobic countries in the world! He was a bit shocked to discover my DH's best man is gay!!!
Sadly though, I am a governor at a school where homophobia is rife. As is rasism and anti semitism ...
Op you're astounding. You grin at touching a nerve yet don't see how two faced it is to get pleasure baiting some people whilst being so glad that baiting of another subset of people ifs finally on the wane.
So, all of those who are more obsessed with the type of school than the phenomenal progress made in the last 30 years .... how are YOUR kids schools doing?
How inclusive and accepting are they?
LadyIsabella I have friends who had to have borrowed boyfriends for corporate events up till about ten years ago. It must be so, so nice for them to be honest about themselves and get on with the job they are paid to do instead of constantly covering their tracks.
wordfactory That is a shame. Do they do all the box ticking and none of the action or just not bother at all?
Talkinpeace (sorry I can't do the bold thing )
I can't speak for "EVERY school" but ...
my son's school is a selective independent single sex school (so , a different kind of school from your DD's ) but as far I can see the pupils display exactly the attitude you describe and tolerance and acceptance are absolutely part of the ethos of the school.
And yes , it is great and for the good . (end of quote )
So point 2 is
My post (which I have rather hamfistedly replicated above )
I am not obsessed with the type of school . My point was , you are right. It is good how things have moved on .My son's school sounds on the face of it different from your DD's but I can only see the same attitude . My son doesn't give a flying fig whether someone is different from him eg different race / straight / gay / supports arsenal / even (whispers) A Girl .
He just doesn't care .
And therefore Talkinpeace - I still agree with your opening post . It is great and long may it continue
talkin it is a school with huge problems!
The cohort are mostly Muslim, many from very traditional Bangladeshi families, which reflects the area.
The area is not a happy place to be and the school reflects that sadly. The teachers do their best (well most do) but it's a losing battle against culture and tradition.
A gay teacher for example, would never want to work there!
Wheras at DD's posh girls school, the deputy head is openly gay and got married last year, with the chapel choir singing a her service ...
I don't think that a teacher's sexual orientation should be part of school life, tbh. Pupils don't need to know anything about their teachers' personal lives.
Oh it's a very freindly school. A proper community. At speech day the teachers attend with their partners. As they do the Christmas feast.
All the usual bollocks about schools being a big family, are actually true about this school.
The HT believes it's the best way to attain. And boy do they attain!
While I think it might work in some schools, I very much doubt that you could generalise that sort of practice.
And I always prefer the more professional, slightly distanced teachers to the ones that wear their hearts on their sleeves and let us know all about their inner lives.
I frequently hear homophobic and disablist language from teens. We haven't come that far in 30 years.
Bonsoir the school is small. And there is boarding (though flexi not full).
It has been a genuine pleasure to watch it in action (I had my doubts before she started)...
That said, for sixth form, I suspect she will leave and try ofr a London school. Possibly DS' school. Very different culture there .
they do still use the insults - "that haircut looks gay" being one of DDs classic lines
the words have utterly lost their bite to the kids
in fact to the lovely lad I referred to in my OP they tease him that he might turn out straight
The fact that teachers of all backgrounds can bring their partners to the carol service is surely a good role model / message to the kids
and whenever my teachers / kids teachers have got married / had kids - its used as a PSHE positive topic.
the school you are a gov at : I admire your perseverance in trying to do the right thing but agree that certain communities are 40 years behind others.
"and whenever my teachers / kids teachers have got married / had kids - its used as a PSHE positive topic."
As someone who is deeply anti-marriage, I would be horrified if my DCs' teachers' weddings were being used as positive role-modelling exercises.
Why are you anti-marriage, Bonsoir?
I would hate to be the teacher whose private life was dragged into the spotlight like a sow in a children's farm with a row of piglets. can you opt out? Can you say "I am just here to teach Maths and am a private individual"?
As someone who is deeply anti-marriage
Out of interest, why?
And are you passing on your quite unusual view to your children?
(PS I got married after living with DH for 9 years, registry office, fab parties, never changed my name)
Dying of curiosity here, Talkinpeace, on that question! do you think she will come back?
I bet it will be:
I am anti-marriage because I have never been to a truly chic wedding, they are intrinsically petit-bourgeois and poshlost
I do not know. Bonsoir usually has detailed reasons for saying what she does.
I am anti-marriage because couple relationships and family life ought to be about respect and support, and marriage is no guarantee of that whatsoever and hides a multitude of horrors most of the time! And yet is held up as some kind of holy grail.
I too am deeply anti-marriage and yes, my children appear to be even more anti it than I am. I am sure it is a lovely institution. If you want to live in an institution.
And agree about the private horrors.
Gosh, Bonsoir I find it sad that you feel that way.
My parents marriage was a disaster, why is why I waited so long before I got married. But it did not make me write off the whole concept.
What will you do if one of your children wants to get married?
Do you go to the weddings of friends and families?
And actually, its only soundbite politicians who hold it up as a "holy grail" - the rest of us just quite like the sense of security.
What are your thoughts on civil partnerships?
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