Chief Inspector of Schools acknowledges life outside M25

(119 Posts)
lainiekazan Thu 20-Jun-13 08:36:47

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22970674

How can this be said as if it's a revelation? Do poor people only live in Tower Hamlets? Why is it that on MN we have discussed this issue but now it's announced as if it's astounding that underachievers might actually be living in Wiltshire.

And, whilst they're at it, they might look at how clever children might not reach their potential if they live in a lower middle-class monocultural location.

maggiecockbain Thu 20-Jun-13 15:20:10

Parents can help their children by getting well qualified home tuition for their children. This is not just for the well off few. Many families work hard to put a little money behind their child's education with one to one private tutors. It certainly helped my daughter so I would recommend it to others.

Talkinpeace Thu 20-Jun-13 15:33:40

But the biggest problem with this report is that it assumes that teachers can be moved between schools to where they are needed and that clusters can share resources
BUT
with Academy status, the employers are different companies
- it would be like Tesco helping Sainsbury's out on a busy day
and the clusters no longer exist

ironman Thu 20-Jun-13 15:52:34

The Ofsted report said that white children of both genders do much worse than any other ethnic group. That the indigenous white working class are doing worse is not news, this fact has been known for years.

Money as others said was pumped (by labour) into cities with high ethnic populations to get votes. This government IMO and the last could not care less about educating white working class children. Paul Willis wrote an excellent book, 'learning to Labour' about how the working class children were more or less contained at school and not educated. This has not changed in parts of the country.

The Ofsted report also said that children with grade 5 (which they call the elite) when leaving primary did not achieve A's by the time they sat further exams at secondary schools, in fact most had dropped back.
Many schools in the Shires don't have canteens for the children at primary schools, so for all of their primary school life they rely on packed lunches. I did not find this whilst living in London.

Cameron and Clegg, should stop giving billions in overseas aid, and start educating the majority of the children in this country instead!angry

chickenliversfortea Thu 20-Jun-13 16:35:21

White children are also more likely to live in the rural areas which might go towards those statistics.

Rural poverty is extreme. There are no food banks or 99p shops for example.

It's really hard to do school project work etc when you have no easy access to cheap stationary, books and shite internet.

Rural poverty is extreme, that's true. Having lived in very poor rural areas and currently living in an extremely poor and, tbh, pretty grim, area of inner London, the poverty is very different but just as extreme and in one largely populated areas. there are no jobs here, even if we live in London. There are no oppurtunities here, no reason to go to school at all. My four closest primary schools...one is satisfactory, the ithers are currently failing and are having to pull themselves up. Both deserve money of course. But this report isn't talking about rural poverty, it's talking about sure urban poverty etc; isn't it, not rural?

Suburban, not sure urban.

MrButtercat Thu 20-Jun-13 16:52:17

It's not talking out rural communities but leafy suburbs, market towns and coastal towns where there will be plenty of pound shops and Internet access aplenty. Even our local library has Internet access.

Startail Thu 20-Jun-13 16:59:53

Fair funding review

Quote from the above call for a review in 2011 (this is not news)

"For example:

Similar primary schools’ funding can vary by as much as £1,300 per pupil.
Similar secondary schools’ funding can vary by as much as £1,800 per pupil. In a secondary school of 1,000 pupils, that is a difference of around £1.8 million. This could pay for around 40 extra teachers."

My DDs secondary is in a very poorly funded leafy bit of middle England and is in this sort of position, £1.8 million is around a third of the schools budget, it is a huge difference.

Talkinpeace Thu 20-Jun-13 17:00:04

Here
viewer.zmags.com/publication/a0a182bc#/a0a182bc/110
Is the list of schools they visited to get their good ideas from ....

Talkinpeace Thu 20-Jun-13 17:01:03

Here
viewer.zmags.com/publication/a0a182bc#/a0a182bc/104
is the list of hand wringing great and good who have stated the obvious

OnTheNingNangNong Thu 20-Jun-13 17:10:15

I live in a coastal seaside town and the education in a lot of schools is needing a lot more improvement.
The investment is there, but there's a general attitude ofnot giving a fuck.

I grew up in London and whilst theres not the poverty that there is in the cities, theres an air of no hope. Theres nothing here.

lljkk Thu 20-Jun-13 17:28:21

Comparing 3 high schools nearby: Outstanding (£4586), Good (£4431), Satisfactory (£4346). There is a trend in those numbers, but I'm struggling to believe its statistically significant. 4-5% difference in funding makes that much difference? Funding all far far below the national avg. Satisfactory has avg % FSM, the other two are well below avg FSM. Their GCSE results roughly parallel their Ofsted rating, although 4-6 yrs ago Good school had best GCSEs and Satisfactory school had almost dire GCSEs.

One look at the towns says everything; Outstanding school town is on a major commuter corridor, especially fast roads, is a bustllng smart-looking town with lots of indie shops and I honestly can't think of any "bad" parts of town. Good School is in a touristy town buoyed by visitor money and close to Norwich, pockets of very expensive homes, small but hyper-active high street. Other town is slightly back of beyond location, increasingly fringed by supermarkets, half empty industrial estate, iffy house prices, iffy transport links & local high street in dire condition.

Is it that unusual for local bred people to teach at local schools?

merrymouse Thu 20-Jun-13 17:37:22

The thing is its not just the £8K in the state school and the £11K in the private school its the ££££££££? of having parents with money and a high standard of education themselves.

As far as I can see, whatever government is in power, short of teachers taking children home and privately tutoring them, I can't think of any school system that has managed to overcome this difference to any great extent.

Children in rural areas are more reliant on public transport (which will be expensive and infrequent) and have less access to libraries and other facilities, just like adults in rural areas. The more people there are grouped together, the less it costs per head to provide public facilities.

MrButtercat Thu 20-Jun-13 18:15:02

They're talking about schools in leafy suburbs,market towns and seaside towns.<bangs head on keyboard>

ouryve Thu 20-Jun-13 18:41:19

>Parents can help their children by getting well qualified home tuition for their children. This is not just for the well off few. Many families work hard to put a little money behind their child's education with one to one private tutors. It certainly helped my daughter so I would recommend it to others.

Many families work hard and only just manage to put food on the table, too, or maybe have some hot water every once in a while. These are the sorts of children who are being failed by so-called outstanding schools.

ouryve Thu 20-Jun-13 18:46:44

Once overheads are paid for, 4-5% difference in overall budget per child might be a 20% difference in the budget a Science department has for resources.

ironman Thu 20-Jun-13 18:46:53

Mr.Buttercat. Surely they are also talking about state schools in the Shires, and other leafy places, were the government presume everyone is loaded Some of these schools have been on special measures.

HilaryM Thu 20-Jun-13 18:50:38

Has anyone done a league table on which schools have the biggest disparity between FSM pupils and nonFSM?

merrymouse Thu 20-Jun-13 18:57:10

I have to admit I was a bit confused by the grouping of 'seaside resorts, suburbs and market towns', because seaside resorts are often known for their poverty.

Anyway, from the article:

"These poor, unseen children can be found in mediocre schools the length and breadth of our country. They are labelled, buried in lower sets, consigned as often as not to indifferent teaching."

I think this translates as the school system cannot help a child who does not have a strong advocate outside the school.

Many 'outstanding' schools have a large number of outstandingly supportive parents. I have certainly experienced this. It doesn't translate to support for all children.

willowstar Thu 20-Jun-13 19:18:25

Where I live in fairly rural west Norfolk all high schools in a 20 mile radius are in special measures. My friend teaches in one and thinks there is a major problem with low aspirations along with a great difficulty attracting good teachers. She says most teachers there are unmotivated and not very good. Sad.

Mirage Thu 20-Jun-13 19:31:07

This isn't news to us.We live in a little village and the 2 secondary schools available to us are one that has always had a bad reputation [I had the misfortune to attend years ago and it sounds as though nothing has changed] has just gone into special measures after failing it's OFSTED inspection,and the other has a big drug and behaviour problem.Which to chose?

Talkinpeace Thu 20-Jun-13 19:38:43

hilaryM
all of that sort of data is in the report - I linked to it above

do wish people would read before speculating

captainbarnacle Thu 20-Jun-13 19:53:31

Come to the Isle of Wight. Out of our 6 secondary schools, 4 are academies, 1 going to be an academy and all have had OFSTED this year. 4/6 have failed, 3 in special measures. Tory MP for years. Teacher recruitment is difficult.

Lovely place to live, but needs serious help.

HilaryM Thu 20-Jun-13 19:58:43

Talkinpiece - I have read the report. I couldn't find any data for individual schools which was why I asked.

Talkinpeace Thu 20-Jun-13 20:03:44

it will be in the research links - and ofsted do not release data that would make pupils identifiable
that and the data is about secondaries
viewer.zmags.com/publication/a0a182bc#/a0a182bc/52

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