Chief Inspector of Schools acknowledges life outside M25

(119 Posts)
lainiekazan Thu 20-Jun-13 08:36:47

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22970674

How can this be said as if it's a revelation? Do poor people only live in Tower Hamlets? Why is it that on MN we have discussed this issue but now it's announced as if it's astounding that underachievers might actually be living in Wiltshire.

And, whilst they're at it, they might look at how clever children might not reach their potential if they live in a lower middle-class monocultural location.

MrButtercat Thu 20-Jun-13 11:46:30

But if these schools are good/outstanding attendance can't be an issue.

MrButtercat Thu 20-Jun-13 11:49:09

The report on BBC is referring to affluent areas so jobs not an issue.

A lot of stereotyping on this thread.hmm

BoffinMum Thu 20-Jun-13 11:50:10

London educates 20% of the country's children. During the period 1997-2010 London schools had preferential access to such pots of money as:

City Challenge money
Keys to Success school development money
Inner London allowances for teachers
Building schools for the Future funding
Enhanced continuing professional development funding

Plus

Better geographical access to continuing professional development courses

All of which make rapid improvement possible. For example, primaries in London may receive £8000 per pupil, whereas the school in Cambridge my youngest attends receives around £3000 for doing the same job with a similarly mixed intake and comparable levels of Free School Meals to the primary school his sister attended in Battersea.

More info here:

Comparative funding

beatback Thu 20-Jun-13 11:50:33

The College used to take the kids to the beech and have surfing lessons to avoid absences. It was called thinking on your feet.

MrButtercat Thu 20-Jun-13 11:54:01

And the good/outstanding results from the affluent kids are they all going surfing too?

elastamum Thu 20-Jun-13 11:58:34

Rural secondaries mostly dont exist any more. For rural folk the secondary schools are mostly in local market towns - usually not particularly big ones - one secondary school in each - half the kids bussed in from the surrounding villages. Depending where they live the rural children may get picked up early (7-7.30ish on a long route) and often get home late. The school population is scattered across the county - making any access to after school or extension / support classes almost impossible due to transport issues. The schools arent particularly big - so money is limited. We certainly havent seen any big, flash new school buildings going up round here. hmm

beatback Thu 20-Jun-13 11:58:52

Another misunderstanding from people about kids growing up in affluent areas have access to jobs. In many affluent towns there is always a influx of people from outside the area it gives the impression that everything is wel,l when the opposite is true many of these kids who grow up in these areas end up leaving these areas because 1 cant afford housing 2 cant compete with the highly skilled people coming in from outside. These kids dont show up on any deprivation index because they probably have two parents working and dont qualify for F.S.M.

meditrina Thu 20-Jun-13 12:08:47

Here is the TES article about how pupils from "deprived" postcodes make less progress, wherever they live, than the from more "affluent" ones.

It's got a good discussion of why this kind of analysis does not lend itself easily to finding solutions.

The idea of parachuting in a selection of approved teachers doesn't seem to be likely to make much difference.

beatback Thu 20-Jun-13 12:11:14

Mr Buttercat. The college is one of the best in the Country and because of that has kids going to Russell Group and Oxbridge. However it has a very large number of kids who are there because they have nothing else to do.

whoknowsyou Thu 20-Jun-13 12:17:20

If you live/have lived in a rural area for any serious length of time then this is not a revelation.

My parents made the effort to drive us 6 miles a day (each way) twice a day to a "town" school rather than use the local village primary school where standards of achievement were so low that it was rare for any pupil to pass the 11+ exam. Eventually the school was shut down and we were allowed free bus transport, as we had already found an alternative and saved the council the hassle of finding school places Lordy! How my parents celebrated the freeing up of their time and funds, I remember it so well, us kids started getting pocket money.

This was in the 1970s by the way........

Labour's re-election strategy (right from 1997) was to buy votes so from 1997 the disparity in resources widened as there was a greater concentration of poorer families in cities and anywhere with a Tory controlled local council, well..........

Labour have never understood the stoic rural mentality of country folk, who also are much more likely to have poorer quality acute healthcare compared to cities/Home Counties as there is no premium to attract the brightest and the best away from the resources available to them in those areas.

ouryve Thu 20-Jun-13 12:26:15

Xenia - Hull has a large immigrant population, too.

MrButtercat Thu 20-Jun-13 12:31:21

Leafy suburbs,market towns and seaside towns are hardly rural.These kids are being let down in affluent areas,in Good/Oustanding schools where the affluent maj are doing well- going by the BBC article.

whoknowsyou Thu 20-Jun-13 12:31:42

Hull benefitted from some regeneration scheme monies during the Labour tenancy, no doubt the John Prescott connection helped. Hull is not IMHO rural nor "Coastal" in the sense of being sparsely populated, somewhat isolated yes as a result of being a port but not rural.

Lets not forget Brian and his Yoni services operate out of Hull, it would appear therefor to be a place with some highly entrepreneurial talented individuals. wink

ouryve Thu 20-Jun-13 12:49:54

I wouldn't be surprised if Brian was my brother.

Much of the centre of Hull has been spruced up, but it still has some large, sprawling estates with very little greenery. Because of its isolation, is suffers a lot of the same problems as smaller industrial and market towns in terms of lack of local industry. I suspect it's only the port that keeps it alive. Salaries are low and make those here in the Northeast seem generous. There is also a similar endemic lack of aspiration as that seen in rural areas which have lost their traditional industries. Aside from the isolation and poor local economy, there's been a degree of mismanagement within the council and LEA. Many parents on the fringes of the city send their kids out to schools in East Yorkshire.

The report does highlight what many parents of children who struggle educationally for whatever reason already know - that an Outstanding rating often means sweet FA.

theroseofwait Thu 20-Jun-13 13:03:19

I've taught in the East Riding for 15 years and I've always wondered what the hell goes on in Hull schools. They've had an absolute fortune (when we're counting every sheet of paper) spent on them and I categorically refuse to believe that the IQ of every child drops the minute you go over the county boundary.

It's got to be what goes on at home and the genral culture in Hull which is actually, despite their bid to be a City of Culture, pretty grim. I was sitting in the reception of a Hull school last year waiting for a meeting when a girl (apparently called Brooklyn) grabbed the hair of another girl in front of her whilst loudly maintaining that she was 'fucking dead you fucking whore.' The Deputy who had come out to greet me didn't know where to put himself but everyone else was so non-plussed that I got the impression that it was par for the course.
I wouldn't teach in Hull for all the tea in China.

I do agree, though, that the council are hopeless but then they're elected from a population with generally little education or experience outside the city. They could do with a bit of support from central government themselves.

beatback Thu 20-Jun-13 13:03:27

Ouryve. You say mismangement of Hull Council, i believe they had a wind fall of 350 million from a telecom company they owned didn"t they. the 350 million i believe was squandered on buying derelict council houses.

Xenia Thu 20-Jun-13 13:05:57

£8000 per pupil in London. That's a lot. Haberdashers juniors - one of the best most academic primaries in the country at primary level only charges about £11,400 a year. The state might as well be paying for places at the very best private schools as spend £8k per child in London for what will be a much worse education.

beatback Thu 20-Jun-13 13:11:58

XENIA. Maybe the state could bulk buy for 8k P.A, the only problem would be the private parents would leave the School in droves "UNLESS WE HAD A 7+" HA HA HA.

theroseofwait Thu 20-Jun-13 13:13:29

general even, that'll teach me to mnet and eat!!

lainiekazan Thu 20-Jun-13 13:16:03

[gosh - about 8 years on MN and I've made top discussion...]

Mumzy Thu 20-Jun-13 13:17:28

A bit out of date but interesting info on amount spent by councils and gcse grades achieved www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/12/secondary-school-tables-gcse-alevel-data

There is another government data table which I can't find now but which broke down the funding per pupil for every state school in the country

beatback Thu 20-Jun-13 13:24:25

LAINEKAZAN . You are lucky ,no one has called you for you Grammar or spelling yet?

MrButtercat Thu 20-Jun-13 13:26:37

Hmm my kids are at a Satisfactory state and doing waaaay better than friends with dc in private.Having seen some of the work brought home and listened to my friend's worries I can safely say that spending 11k on private education does not guarantee you a good education.smile

beatback Thu 20-Jun-13 13:31:19

CULTURE ATTACHE FOR THE KINGDOM OF KINGSTON UPON HULL" HIS EMINENCE BARON PRESCOTT".

bettycocker Thu 20-Jun-13 13:43:45

I live in a rural area and there are two Outstanding standard secondary schools within bus distance. DS's primary school is also Outstanding, according to Ofsted.

There are also some pretty bad schools. We're not completely in the middle of nowhere. We have towns, libraries access to the big city and internet. hmm

You do get poverty in the country. It's not as though everyone here galivants around on horseback, wears tweed and dines on pheasant. You'll find a mix of people, just as you would in a city. It's just more spread out, more relaxed and there's less crime.

I moved out of a city and the local schools were appalling. Kids were stabbing each other, smoking pot in the park and all sorts. It wasn't even a poor inner city area.

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