Gove : Longer school days and shorter holidays(41 Posts)
I'm impressed - he's got the comment sections of the Guardian and the Telegraph agreeing with each other
that MP's holidays need cutting first ....
rabbitstew, I don't know. I suspect they were free, or at least free to low income families. We had free school meals and never any spare money, and didn't need paid childcare, so I don't think its something my parents would have paid for. It was v long ago! Days of the miners strikes.
Were the summer schools free, though, GladbagsGold? There are plenty of "summer schools" on offer to those who can pay. I'm not aware of any free ones?
Soundevenfruity, they had those when I was growing up in Nottinghamshire, we used to love going to Summer School at a different school to the term-time one. Lots of happy memories
Indeed, rabbitstew. My own defense of the family becomes more convinced and vociferous with every passing year. Governments seem intent on destroying it.
soundevenfruity This does happen in the deprived area of my town. My DCs school also runs its after school programme some weeks of the holidays. However other schools make money (which helps fund schooling) by leasing their premises to private companies.
Mr Gove did not even go to school in England, BTW.
Why don't they make "holidays camps" in school buildings for the duration of summer holidays where there will be a healthy mix of activities and learning and price them attractively (and/or means tested/; or/and free lunch) for children to go there? And make them local so that not only children from this particular school can go there but anybody who lives nearby? It would solve a problem for underprivileged children being out of school environment. But it would need money to pay to the staff (not necessarily from this school) and equipment and this gov is very keen on something for nothing and then gets offended if you want the same.
When it comes to childcare, there's not much difference between the communist ideal and the capitalist ideal, it would seem - keep the kids away from their own parents and get the parents out to paid work. It's not so much there's no such thing as society as there's no such thing as family.
I can see there would be a place for a longer school day, but only once children are in secondary school. I Think it could help to provide more extra curric activities to all students, rather than those who naturally sign up for everything because that's just the way they are!
Also I would like to see the summer holiday reduced to 4 weeks, but with an extra holiday brought in say after 6 weeks, so overall 1 week less over the year, but split a bit more evenly.
However, it would need to be properly funded, and more teachers employed.
I doubt it will ever happen though.
As a secondary school teacher, I think it's ridiculous that in this country someone with no teaching experience whatsoever can be minister for education. But of course Mr Gove knows all about teaching, because he went to school.
Here in France our PM is a former teacher (German) and our education minister is a former teacher (Philosophy). They are making complete fools of themselves with their current proposals to reform education. Experience of teaching is no guarantee whatsoever!
Lengthening the school and shortening the holidays is not the answer. Summer schools for children who need to catch up or learn English would be a good idea. Changing the curriculum to a less learn to the test would be an even better idea.
Changing our culture of lazy, entitlement is a must!
I agree re their model is both parents working and all kids in daycare from babies. They seem to look at Sweden in terms of numbers of women working and most babies in daycare. But what they don't also look at is that parents have masses of days they can take off if their child is ill (125 per year i think it is), much longer maternity leave as well as paternity leave, ability to cut their hours by 25%, they can also take their leave in much more flexible ways. So in other words this gov wants us all in work but WITHOUT any of the very benefits that make people able to work when they have small DC! Crazy!
I would seriously consider mixed schooling if this happened (not that I think the schools would be willing but I would really push for it and seek to take them out to essentially keep their hours at school no greater than they are now)
DD physically couldn't cope with days of that length (due to health issues she gets more tired and less sleep than most)
DS is a bright kid but it would kill off any lingering passion he might have for learning. He values the work/play mix of an average day even at the age of 12 and he values his holidays and time outside school.
Even without medical issues, most primary school children are fit to drop by the end of term.
Then there are transport concerns - always travelling in rush hour traffic and in the dark all winter won't be good for many.
Not to mention where on earth they find the money for this? Teachers don't get paid holidays (many people think they do but they really don't) so presumably, the wages bill will go through the roof. We will lose a lot of decent people from the profession - people who signed up to teach children not babysit all year whilst parents work fulltime. Teachers will have zero planning time - they currently use evenings and holidays to mark and plan.
I understand some children would benefit from more formal (i.e. state) input in their lives but even they probably won't welcome weeks of extra time cooped up at school. State play schemes that make use of school facilities in the holidays would perhaps be an option there.
I would never dream of HEing normally and don't see the need because you have plenty of time with them. However I wouldn't want younger children in such a long day and without the holidays.
Ooh lovely - lots of new HE-ers I always wish more people would HE.
I would definitely homeschool in the primary years- the school day is long enough and they need the holidays.
I will homeschool if this ever happens.
My son who is 16 is at a boarding school in oxford... They have 10 weeks summer compared to the 6 at state school, 4 weeks at Christmas compared to the 2, and 3 at Easter compared to the 2. They also have the same regular half terms.. However they have a mixture of long and short days and work till 12:30 on a Saturday. This seems to work fantastically well. I think state schools should try and adopt a similar method. I think teachers would prefer the extra 5 hours in the week than shorter holidays.
As a secondary school teacher, I think it's ridiculous that in this country someone with no teaching experience whatsoever can be minister for education. But of course Mr Gove knows all about teaching, because he went to school
Certain questions need answering first like:-
- are rules on taking pupils (& teachers for that matter) out during term time going to be relaxed so we can all get reasonably priced holidays?
- when will all the extra-curricular out of school things like ballet, swimming, music lessons happen? Many creative arts will be lost for good if all the specialist self employed experts are given no time to work
- when will musicians practice?
- when will parents spend time with their kids? Weekends only?
I think that I would want to HE my DCs rather than take away their childhood. Good teachers will also leave in droves.
Would it not be better if they gave parents longer holidays?
In Norway you have to take a minimum of two consecutive weeks (out of 5 week allowance) every summer. Each family of two parents then usually end up taking 3 consequtive weeks. This way summer holidays looks like this.
1-2 week school club (or other arranged activity) 1 week with mum (or dad) 2 weeks with both parents (usually going away somewhere, preferably somewhere sunny) 1 week with dad (or mum), finally 1-2 week school club, then back to school, having had 8 weeks holidays.
The summer is the main time of year for young people or (long term) unemployed people to gain valuable work experience, as a seasonal worker, with a good rate of pay, and chances of being kept on.
Their model is all parents working, all kids in childcare. That's what's behind this - free nursery places for 2yos was a step too far imo but this is just part of the plan that means children are kind of catered for en masse, while their parents work all hours.
It's like a bloody farm.
But independents have always had longer holidays and they're doing just fine. I know they have a longer day, but Gove's going for longer days and shorter hols. Glad mine are well into secondary now
How is this 'family friendly'?
Gove says its his ....
he's invited the NUT to set up a free school
then again Broon was a fuckwit of the first order too (he was the one who planeed the £10m maggie fest as well)
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