What level should Y4 be for super selective grammar?

(66 Posts)
Rainbowinthesky Sat 23-Mar-13 18:00:00

Hi
DD is in a school which has historically and still is doing badly for progress and value added. Her year group have been hit particularly hard over the years and there is no quick fix on the horizon.
I would like her to try for a super selective grammar though. I cannot go by the levels I have been given in the past from the school because it has been found that previous levels for the children were inaccurate and untrustworthy.
She has recently completed Y4 sats.
What level should she be getting if she stands any chance of a super selective?

MTSgroupie Sat 23-Mar-13 19:17:15

Assuming that your entrance exam is VR NVR and not National Curriculum based then what SAT level your DC is at now is irrelevant.

Having said that, it can be a useful indicator of your DCs capabilities. If your DC goes to a good primary school and his SATs are only average then that can be a predictor. But if, like in your case, the school isn't great then your DCs SATs is a reflection on the school itself and not your DC.

I suggest that you give your DC a past paper and see how he does. In my DC's case he scored about 70%. He wouldnt have passed his school's exam with that score but it gave an indication as to his potential.

If your selective has a safe pass mark of 90% and, without tutoring, your DC only scores 40% for example, then you have to ask yourself if DC has the potential with tutoring to get close to the safe mark.

heronsfly Sat 23-Mar-13 19:23:50

My dd3 is at a High performing grammar, ( not super selective) she went to a primary school that's in and out of special measures,at the end of year 5 she had either got,or was very close to a level 5 in all subjects.

Rainbowinthesky Sat 23-Mar-13 19:34:14

Hi. Thanks for replies. She has done well in her sats but I don't know if doing well in sats coupled with poor schooling will do it.

ThePathanKhansAmnesiac Sat 23-Mar-13 19:42:48

Which County are you in Rainbow?

Rainbowinthesky Sat 23-Mar-13 19:47:30

Rather not say but I do know there were well over 1500 applicants for our nearest one.

Rainbowinthesky Sat 23-Mar-13 19:48:27

I know there will be loads of children in prep schools and good/outstanding schools against her.

LilyBolero Sat 23-Mar-13 19:49:07

Don't know, but if it's any help, dd is middle of Y5, but youngest in year (Aug birthday), she is currently level 5a for reading/writing and 5b for maths. She's pretty bright...

clam Sat 23-Mar-13 19:54:14

When I was last in Year 6 (4 or 5 years ago) I would have said a child would need to be Level 5s by the end of Year 5 in order to stand a chance of the selective comprehensives around here, so maybe a bit higher than that for a super-selective grammar?
So high level 4s by the end of Year 4?

clam Sat 23-Mar-13 19:55:40

Oh, and competition is greater in recent years, as the recession has hit home and children who would previously have gone privately are now competing for state selectives.

Rainbowinthesky Sat 23-Mar-13 19:58:19

Well. She got 4as in the sats but I don't know if this is a lucky day or if it means she is at this level consistently. Also if she is this level it's unlikely work will be differentiated for her anyway.

chickensaladagain Sat 23-Mar-13 20:00:27

at end of yr 4 dd was 5c reading, 4a maths & writing

she was offered a place at a super selective indie with a comfortable pass

Rainbowinthesky Sat 23-Mar-13 20:07:35

How was she tested for 5c? Dd's tests were capped at level 4. Is it worth me asking her to be tested for l5. For reading she was 2 marks off full and for maths missed 4 off total marks.

chickensaladagain Sat 23-Mar-13 20:27:01

combination of teacher assesment & sats paper test

tiggytape Sat 23-Mar-13 20:31:43

Not scientific at all, but a straw poll of children at our school who have managed to not only pass the 11+ but pass it with a score high enough to get an offer suggests level 4a at the end of Year 4 in both literacy and maths is roughly the required standard.

By super selective I am assuming you mean a grammar with no catchment or sibling policy (highest score wins) and one where 1000+ apply. Level 4a is a high level to reach in Year 4 when you consider it exceeds the expected level for a child 2 years older but there are so many chasing so few super selective places that sheer numbers push the required level up and up.

BooksandaCuppa Sat 23-Mar-13 23:14:57

How did they give her a test capped at level 4? AFAIK, there are level 2 papers, then level 3-5 ones (and now level 6 ones). Was it an internally created one?

Rainbowinthesky Sat 23-Mar-13 23:19:29

Dd said that some got l2-3 papers and some got ones that said l3-4 on them. I've looked them up online and it was past y4 papers and mark schemes also only go to l4.

BooksandaCuppa Sat 23-Mar-13 23:27:30

ok, ds's school only used the ones I quoted above.

Anyway, back to your OP, you need to find out what type of entry exam the school you're interested in uses. If it's VR/NVR you can get books to work through and see how she does naturally without any tuition.

Her levels sound good (you would probably hope for mid-to-high level 4 in yr 5 for a 'normal' selective so for a superselective she sounds more or less on track)

clam Sun 24-Mar-13 00:44:14

The non-statutory tests that are only available internally to schools are capped at Level 4 (and there are two papers, higher (L3-4) and lower (L 2-3), with some overlapping content.
It could be that schools give an official past paper (available online - try googling St Joseph's Pickering to download) in order to level higher.

BooksandaCuppa Sun 24-Mar-13 08:12:58

Thanks, clam, I think our school always did the 3-5 ones but since they only started telling levels in yr4 onwards (obviously 2 as well) I can't be sure.

MrsPatrickDempsey Sun 24-Mar-13 08:14:17

My DD in yr 6 has just gained a place comfortably at a super selective grammar in Essex. She was a combination of mid to high 4s at the end of yr 4 and 5s in English at the end or yr 5.

Yellowtip Sun 24-Mar-13 09:54:21

I'm not sure you're correct about sheer numbers of applications pushing up the standard tiggytape. This is the same argument used for the better universities too but the evidence suggest that the ability levels of those getting offers at all these sought after institutions is the same as it has been for years, simply that more who are likely to fall below that standard are applying, for economic or social reasons or whatever.

I'd be very wary about being put off by a disastrous first practice paper as well.

Agree with MrsPatrickDempsey that a combination of mid to high 4s, plus 5s, at the end of Y5 should be enough to be in with a reasonable chance.

clam Sun 24-Mar-13 09:55:22

Actually, I should say that the Year 4 non-stat tests are capped at Level 4. Can't remember about the Year 5 ones <<getting old>>

Yellowtip Sun 24-Mar-13 09:57:29

Maybe high 4s plus 5s at the end of Y5.

seeker Sun 24-Mar-13 09:58:50

But bear in mind that there is not necessarily a correlation.

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