Would you be prepared to pay more tax to get better state education for all?

(707 Posts)
happygardening Tue 26-Feb-13 16:53:19

Any other suggestions welcome to ensure that all where ever they live and whatever their background have access to education of the highest quality.

surreygoldfish Tue 26-Feb-13 20:47:32

No - because I don't believe it's all about how much money is invested.....the current variation in quality within the state sector cannot be explained just by funding. Agree with scaevola - it doesn't change the different demographics of each school's catchment.
If private schools are abolished, more government funding would be required to pay for all those children not currently educated in the state system.

rabbitstew Tue 26-Feb-13 21:45:19

surreygoldfish - how can you believe it's not about how much money is invested while simultaneously believing more money would have to be invested if people being privately educated suddenly moved into the state sector because of the closure of private schools???? Surely on your logic, the meagre funds could just be stretched still further to accommodate them? It's not all about how much money is invested, after all...grin

How would the extra tax be used? As the 'good' schools tend to be in the wealthier areas, with parents who engage with education/pay for tutors etc etc. Hence the whole antipathy to pointy elbowed middle classes snatching the best school places. Would it pay deposits for lower income families to allow them to move? That would be quite radical.

lisad123everybodydancenow Tue 26-Feb-13 22:01:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

happygardening Tue 26-Feb-13 22:01:39

To get smaller classes more money would have to come from somewhere I'm not sure how much more tax we'd have to pay but I would be happy to pay more. But not if independent schools were abolished in fact I don't see why the two have to go hand in hand.

rabbitstew Tue 26-Feb-13 22:15:11

Sorry, I don't see how you can ever achieve a better education for all in a society heading towards an increasing number of have nots and a diminishing number of haves holding on to an increasingly massive share of the cake. A better education for all would require a more even, less divided society in general and we are doing absolutely nothing to work towards this. In fact, we've been paddling hard in the opposite direction since the 1980s.

montmartre Tue 26-Feb-13 22:16:03

I would only pay more if all 'markets' and profit making within education were outlawed.

We already pay huge amounts of tax- 20, 40 or 50% plus 11% NI, plus local tax (currently council tax, no doubt about to be replaced by a local income tax), and 20% VAT on almost all purchases (including VAT on fuel, which is kind of a necessity in this country).

The limit for the 40% tax rate has been lowered this year, putting more people into that band too!

AScorpionPitForMimes Tue 26-Feb-13 22:34:41

Yes, but only on condition that 2 things happened:

1) That the money was absolutely ring-fenced for education, and
2) That a large amount of it was spent on setting up a system of really good vocational education so that children who aren't academic can learn a skilled trade and thrive, and not be looked down on for not being academic.

AScorpionPitForMimes Tue 26-Feb-13 22:36:33

And what rabbitstew said - we need to get rid of the persistent and significant remains of the class system, because it has fucked up this country for too long. Unfortunately we are very much moving in the wrong direction.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Tue 26-Feb-13 22:38:14

In theory, I would. However the deal you propose is not likely to be on the table anytime soon, for reasons others have pointed out.

TiffIsKool Wed 27-Feb-13 00:09:26

I am quite happy to pay more tax if it was ring fenced for the NHS and patient care and was combined with programs to cut waste. More money means more kidney dialysis machines, better post op care, shorter waiting lists etc etc.

But paying more tax for education? No.

Sure there are schools where buildings are dilapidated, children have to share worn and tatty text books, and where the 'IT' lab is a joke. These schools will benefit greatly from an influx of money. However, there are a lot of schools that are failing because of disruptive and violent children, incompetent teachers, apathetic parents etc etc. Throwing money of these schools won't resolve the social problems that afflicts these failing schools.

florencerose Wed 27-Feb-13 00:22:23

No

and I have a number of children who will need educating in the state system.

they/we need to spend what we have wisely and I see no appetite in the public or our rulers for such discussions!

florencerose Wed 27-Feb-13 00:23:28

I'm not so sure Tiff

healthcare is a bottomless pit the demand expands to fit the supply

again we need to discuss what we are aiming for

TiffIsKool Wed 27-Feb-13 00:33:20

florencerose - I agree that the NHS is a bottomless pit. Large chunks of any large injection of cash will probably get ring fenced for pay rises for staff.

But since we were playing "would you pay more tax for xyz"..... smile

florencerose Wed 27-Feb-13 00:35:19

Tiff havent NHS staff had no pay rises for about 3 years now?

why do you assume that the money all goes to the staff do you have any information to support this?

florencerose Wed 27-Feb-13 00:36:37

same with teachers I assume

florencerose Wed 27-Feb-13 00:38:24

why health? you could substitute hospital for school in your post and I expect it would be just as true (serious question not trying to annoy you)

LineRunner Wed 27-Feb-13 00:48:07

Yes

But no tax money or charity tax breaks to academies, free schools, private schools, grammar schools or faith schools.

I would also like to see state school Governing Bodies remunerated in some reasonable way to reflect the key role they have, and which might attract more people.

Startail Wed 27-Feb-13 00:59:51

no

recall Wed 27-Feb-13 01:03:24

agree with whistleahappytune yes

TiffIsKool Wed 27-Feb-13 01:04:31

flo - as you have said, NHS staff haven't had a pay rise in years. So if the NHS budget were to get a large influx of cash you reckon the unions won't be pushing for catch up pay rises?

florencerose Wed 27-Feb-13 01:07:15

Doesnt everyone push every year

cant see it happening for a decade TBH and then it wont be catch up it will just be 1%

the financial situation has stuffed an awful lot of people

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Wed 27-Feb-13 01:13:13

No because I'm not convinced that lack of money in education is at the heart of the problem.

- Constant changes in education policy
- Ridiculous amounts of form filling
- Teach to test philosophy
- Children who come to school completely unprepared to learn and unable to concentrate due to their home environment
- Stupid policy of trying to force unacademic children into higher education

TiffIsKool Wed 27-Feb-13 01:16:28

Why health and not schools? Schools fail for a variety of reasons that has nothing to with lack of funds.

Tasmania Wed 27-Feb-13 01:23:56

NO

Because there is no one size fits all in education. My ideal school, would be another parent's hell and vice versa. So if we had to share the same local school with that person, at least one of us will be unhappy - if not both. Because we could end up with a school that neither of us wants.

Also, I don't want to pay even more to educate those who don't want to be educated. Or for the kids of some very large families out there.

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