ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
Do you actually know an indie family?(134 Posts)
We chose to go private because we don't have any grammar schools in our catchment and the local. comps aren't brilliant. Other choose private because their state schools have to work hard just to be not brilliant. Many of us would love to put the fees towards reducing out mortgage or holidays for e.g. if only we had decent state schools to send our kids to.
Of course there are those choose private imply because they have the disposable income such they don't have to carry out a cost benefit analysis. They do it for the same reason you like a nice hotel while on holiday complete with room service, big pool and a kids club ie nothing to do with avoiding less well off families.
As for the parents, away from places like Eton, they tend to be accountants, dentists, estate agents and the like. So not much opportunity for social climbing at most indies
The above is the preamble to the question in the subject because judging from the views expresseb by various anti private posters, very few of you actually know an indie family.
I mean, all they seem to go on about is how indie parents are snobby, social climbing and don't want their kids to mix with less well off kids. Maybe those generalisations are true for places like Eton but most indies that trade on their academic record are full of ordinary albeit well paid people.
So the next time you go on about how some parents think that the state system is full of underachieving DCS born to unsupportive WC parents, have a good look at the mirror. I suspect the person that you see isn't that different from the person you are complaining about.
Incidentally, there is another school gate politics thread going on at the moment. Apparently state school moms can be bitchy and clique-ey. shock horror
Here's a generalisation for you: posters who start off by making obscure and unfounded comments invariably become rude AND condescending when it's pointed out to them that they are in fact in error
I thought this was a thread about Hipsters... but since I have clicked on it I will reply.
I do know plenty of people who use "indies" thank you. Most of them are ultra rich and just see private school as "normal". They inhabit a different world from the rest of us, want their children to make nice friends and networks for later in life. If I was very rich I would probably feel the same. I have two cousins who went to Eton, they are not mega rich but as no-one in their (part of my) family had ever been to a state school, they would simply not consider it. They both have good jobs which I think they got via family connections and networking rather than inate ability - I doubt they would have those jobs if they went to the local comp.
Since I don't have an income in 6 or even 7 figures I opted for the state sector. I am lucky I was able to access good schools. One child is at an outstanding comp and the other at a super selective grammar. I have no problem with people without access to those, scrimping and saving to get their kids a decent education.
What I do object to is being looked down on as a lower form of life. One awful snob physically recoiled when I told her which school my younger child went to. I was also gleefully told by another mum that her friend had rejected my child's super selective for the "superior" indie down the road - in fact the latter gets far inferior results.
I have used the private sector during primary which was to escape from bullying - though my child got a full scholarship and I paid for my other child. I was lucky I earned enough then to have the choice. In fact I think my child got the scholarship because I knew how to put on the charm and smarm my way in. Some parents had to leave because they could no longer afford the fees. I feel desperately sorry for children and families who are stuck in schools that are inadequate and they have to stay there because there is no choice. I don't class "not brilliant" comp in that category. My child's comp - Holland Park - is outstanding now because parents stuck with it during its transformation in the last 10 years or so.
I knew people with dcs at private school before I decided to choose that for ds. Not sure what the OP's point is. As for Ronaldo, I think their comment is barking. Where I live the social demographic is pretty much the same whether you choose private or state schooling (very wealthy area) and parental interest the same.
Everyone is entitled to express an opinion ( within the limitsod the law) and I have expressed mine. You can either adress it or ignore it. You do not have to bad mouth me because of my "ID". That is precisely the kind of argument that shows no manners and gets us nowhere.
The OP asked if posters knew any families who went to independent schools. I do. So I answered and gave my experince. Thats all one can do in this kind of thread.
That some disagree does not make the comment any less valid.
Here's the thing; parents use independent school for their DC for lots of different reasons.
However, the resident self imposed experts on MN will never accept it. They know you see...
In the same way they know that most parents who use private school have no real sense of what state school is like. The fact that most private school parents have used it in primary is, apparently, not evidence enough.
In RL most folk don't really worry about it. Most folk would accept that they cannot say what goes on in other people's minds. Certainly not on a macro level...
Oh and yes, I know loads of parents who send their DC to private school. Their reasoning seems to be individual, ranging from the completely understandable to the bonkers.
Ronaldo. You could have answered the OP's question without being so gratuitously offensive. Which I why I exercised my right to call bullshit when I see it. And I exercised my right to warn others that your brand of bullshit is particularly intransigent.
So what you're saying, Ronaldo, is that you send (/would send?) your kids to private school to keep them away from the common types in state schools? you have come on the thread to refute TotallyBS' OP? Fair play to you.
The only private-schooling families I know (primary) use it because they were private schooled themselves, have well-paying jobs, and have never really considered the state option.
Wordfactory, I have a particularly ditzy friend who chose her daughter's private school "because of the darling Madeline hats" I kid you not!
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I went to an independent school as did my brother. I guess that made us an "indie family" in your terminology. However, I choose not to send my children to private school. So, no, I don't meet your assumption that those of us who are anti-private haven't met or understand families who do choose private. And I'm not anti-private because I had a bad experience at private school but for the ideological reason that I don't believe in buying an advantage for my children in something as fundamental as education.
SecondComing - I usually skip past a post when the poster declare herself/himself to be a socialist because, based on past experience, what follows tend to be mutterings of double standards a la Diane Abbot.
So, since I'm not familiar with your posts, no this was not directed at you.
My brother and a good friend both send their DC to private schools.
My brother and SIL do so because they have lots of family money and both went to private schools themselves. They frankly never even considered state (they claim they did but disregarded it as their local schools have "such poor" results. Which would have been a fine reason except that I looked up their local schools out of interest to find that they both get extremely good results, so this was clearly just an excuse). Whilst we get on and fine I have to say that they are the totally out of touch stereotypical private school parents often mentioned on mumsnet (and I often find myself biting my tongue). SIL openly says that she can't understand why so many mothers at her DC's school work full time and seems unable to grasp the concept that they may well be doing it to pay the fees. She also (genuinely) couldn't understand why I was rendered speechless at being told her DC's school uniform cost £600.
My good friend only chose private school because she was offered a large discount (the school was trying to expand and chasing pupils). She openly says that the private school is lovely, has amazing facilities and the teaching is great but she is not convinced that the cost justifies the benefits and has made the decision to move her DC to state at secondary. So she probably more fits the "normal" type of parent mould?
Fayrazzled I do think your ideals are very noble, but I wonder if you would tempted to abandon them if your children's only option was to go to a horrible sink school. Just saying.
Ok so BS clearly just wants a great big 'indie' vs state cat fight where we all have a go at each other and explain in triplicate why we're better than each other. Which is frankly just tedious.
As you're so fond of generalisations BS, and in answer to your initial enquiry YES, a lot of MNers will actually know an 'indie' family.
The vast majority of us are probably also able to grasp the idea that individuals make individual choices. They might not be choices which we ourselves would make, but that is neither here not there. There are a variety of reasons as to why parents choose the 'indie' over the state sector. Just as there are a variety of reasons as to why parents don't. Some reasons will be more prevalent than others of course, but still a variety will exist.
Variety is in fact the spice of life!
So does that answer your question and can we all go merrily on our way now?
I seriously thought this was going to be a thread about families that all happily head off to Glastonbury or Reading festival together. Now they're the kind of indie families I'd like to know
There aren't that many "horrible sink schools" you know!
'Here nor there' - sorry. Stupid phone.
Amused at Totally's stout defence of parents who privately educate their DCs - all except those who send their kids to Eton!
Total lol at 'indie family'.
What kind of twat defines their whole family by whether they pay for education or not.
And yes, I thought it was about music too, or I wouldn't have clicked.
<knocks head on the table>
As I said upthread, my comments are directed at people who think that private school parents base their decision on snobbery, opportunities to social climb etc
If you are anti private BUT you are none of the above then you don't need to tell me how many rich people you know.
By the way Second , I am impressed that you know somebody who knows Richard Branson. I know someone who know someone who served Tom Cruise. That's my only claim to fame.
I know lots of people who have gone private for secondary school, but the one woman I know who sent her child to private primary is constantly justifying her choice unprompted and 'couldn't possibly contemplate sending her child to a state school after private'. Blah blah blah. I don't care what she does but she is always trying to pick a fight about it. If I ever say something like: 'well some people believe in state schools because they want their children to mix with people from all walks of life', she jumps in with 'Oh but they are all ordinary middle class people' Probably non-aspirational accountants and dentists .
...if you think that parents choose private because they are snobs then you obviously don't know anyone that privately educates their DCs.
Xenia is adamant that she educates privately to make sure her DC only mix with the right sort. Then again, maybe she's a figment of MNHQ's imagination just to keep us all excitable.
DH's boss (so a mere small company director) sends his kids to private schools for snobby reasons. It's their choice.
We sent DS to private for 2 yrs and some of the parents sent their DC there for what I think of as snobby reasons. Plenty not, too.
I don't have any strong ideological opinions about education, but I think it's silly to pretend that snobbiness doesn't come into the private option a lot of the time.
I don't have a choice about where to educate my child. Most people don't. Stop talking about it being a choice/decision. That's the thing that pisses me off about these threads the most.
Anyway, that aside. Yes I know lots of parents who educate their children privately. Most didn't even consider state education for whatever reason - it was never even on their radar. Of the rest, some base their decision on not wanting to mix with the wrong sorts, most for boring reasons like class size, better results, better sports, better wrap around care etc.
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