Tim Hands' article in the Telegraph (Clegg again!)

(65 Posts)
testbunny Sat 02-Feb-13 20:56:26

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/9842367/Yes-Nick-Clegg-only-money-will-get-your-boy-a-good-school.-How-sad-is-that.html

At the same time as deriding Clegg's hypocrisy, he seems to back him up...

Is Mr Hands biased towards privately educated children??

Discuss

Ronaldo Mon 04-Feb-13 18:32:09

happygardening- we have some untraditional names but none like Chardonney. Maybe I should say the names are less cheap looking.

happygardening Mon 04-Feb-13 18:15:25

RonladoI can tell you that the children at one if the most famous upmarket and selective coed boarding schools in the UK have a very wide variety of names not just restricted to William, and Kate. In fact I'm often surprised how untraditional the names are.
"If such a DC (named Chardoney) did make it into our school I would imagine it would not be long before she got herself invited for a long chat in the HT's office and an invitation to find another school as soon as possible."
How insulting and patronising I would rather send my DC to a Steiner school than send my DC's to a school who judges them on their name.

Ronaldo Mon 04-Feb-13 17:42:28

We do not have any Chardonnays, Jades, Waynes or similar in my school at all as it happens.

The DC tend to be called Helen, Elizabeth Rachel, Caroline. Boys are Harry, James, Andrew, George etc. The more traditional neams dominate.

We did have a Skye and a Storm a couple of years ago ( and they were friends) I said did have, they decided they didnt like our school and left for the local state school.

ubik Mon 04-Feb-13 17:39:39

No, sorry Amber.

Ronaldo Mon 04-Feb-13 17:36:58

I don't understand why you think 'pop culture' and itmohe current values affect state sector children more than children who attend private school

Because ime it tends to. Its just statement of an observation. I have worked in state and independent schools. State schools are dominated by the ethos of this behaviour. On the other hand, often independent schools see little of it or what they do see is knocked out of the DC quickly as they fit into the way we work. Also, many parents send their DC to schools like that I work in precisely because they want to get their DC away from the worst influences and get them a chance to experience something different.

Ronaldo Mon 04-Feb-13 17:30:49

So when mum gets out of her white BMW 4X4, flicks her highlights, checks her fake tan in the mirror and wiggles down the road in her sunglasses and juicy couture tracksuit, to drop little Chardonnay at private school, she is not imbued with 'chav culture'?

Never see any of those in the school I teach at ( independent). I doubt any such parent would fit in well or for long.

Whilst it is stereotypic of me a child with a name like Chardonney is more likely to be in a state school in my experience - and usually trouble. If such a DC did make it into our school I would imagine it would not be long before she got herself invited for a long chat in the HT's office and an invitation to find another school as soon as possible.

Amber2 Mon 04-Feb-13 17:22:51

If you were referring to my last post Ubik ..I don't. I think you misread it!

ubik Mon 04-Feb-13 17:12:38

I don't understand why you think 'pop culture' and itmohe current values affect state sector children more than children who attend private school.

Amber2 Mon 04-Feb-13 16:35:47

agree...the reasons why they choose those schools is likely because it is the antitheses to the culture they were raised in...but you are going to find more of that type at teh posh schools than the highly selective academic ones...and they probably would not dream of entering them to a high performing state school like Tiffin or Reading grammar because it does not have enough social kudos..

orientalstudies Mon 04-Feb-13 16:21:15

I agree Amber, and why should they not attend. The point being made, I think, is that the kind of popular culture we associate with some of the names you mention (rightly or wrongly) will not dominate the culture of the school. It's fair to say though, that all schools are affected by the cultural changes commented on by Wordfactory's friends.

Amber2 Mon 04-Feb-13 16:01:07

I forgot to mention Jade!!

Amber2 Mon 04-Feb-13 15:59:59

This thread is too black and white...... there is a wide range of parents at private schools and a wide range of schools ...some worse than state ...some much better ....where did Jordan and Colleen choose send their DCs? ... at the poshest Tatleresque prep schools you will find a smattering of the type mentioned above .. ...most non selective prep schools will take if they can pay and are not likely to disrupt...be it footballers wives or Russian Oligarchs ...with aspirations, if not for them, but for their DCS, that money does buy both education and class..

wordfactory Mon 04-Feb-13 15:48:59

I think what ronaldo says about the pervading pop culture, is interesting.

I recently met up with two old friends who had not been back to the UK for some time. Both commented (independently) that the culture has not only changed since last they were here, but that it is extraordinarily dominant.

JoanByers Mon 04-Feb-13 15:41:01

I think it's what footballers wives wear.

Here's a helpfully tagged photo of Mrs. Wayne Rooney. coolspotters.com/clothing/juicy-couture-classic-velour-tracksuit/photos_videos/895000

happygardening Mon 04-Feb-13 15:31:26

I'm so stereotypical I don't even know what a juicy couture track suit is!!!!

JoanByers Mon 04-Feb-13 15:09:44

Have not seen any juicy couture tracksuits at my children's private school, FWIW.

CecilyP Mon 04-Feb-13 15:08:38

Yes, I love the idea that Xenia is worried and needs reassurance that her choices were the correct ones!

ubik Mon 04-Feb-13 15:02:21

Well that was a lovely comment Joan thanks for your input there ( and I think you'll find Xenia more than comfortable with her choices)

JoanByers Mon 04-Feb-13 14:36:42

Xenia, I shouldn't worry about those who say you are being a dreadful person by not sending your child to state school.

These are the people who insist nobody has personal responsibility, they are all victims of circumstance. All that is except for middle class people, who are to blame for everything, even the bad behaviour and lack of interest in learning of other people's children.

Ronaldo Mon 04-Feb-13 14:27:33

"pop" as in polular culture. Its the dominanat culture of Britain today ( to make that clear for you)

Ronaldo Mon 04-Feb-13 14:26:43

The culture pervades many things and extends well beyond any single sub group or culture. Hence 85%. Its a mass culture - a pop culture.

ubik Mon 04-Feb-13 14:20:43

"What you have to get to grips with is the culture " chav" that represents some 85% ofthose who access the state system. You need to address that."

So the 85% are not 'chavs', they are just infected with 'chav culture?'

So you are saying that this is a culture which pervades state schools but not private schools.

So when mum gets out of her white BMW 4X4, flicks her highlights, checks her fake tan in the mirror and wiggles down the road in her sunglasses and juicy couture tracksuit, to drop little Chardonnay at private school, she is not imbued with 'chav culture'? grin

OhDearConfused Mon 04-Feb-13 14:18:01

@ubik, 10:00:00 Ronaldo, with respect you don't know what you are talking about. Either that or you are Nick Clegg.

Not sure why these two things are mutually exclusive.

Ronaldo Mon 04-Feb-13 14:10:07

What will happen? Are you saying that they won't go to university? They will if they work hard enough

I am not saying anything. However, statistically the cards are stacked against your DC making good progress or achieving their potential in state schools.

The problem is you cannot know what they might have achieved if you had sent them private.
Saying "oh but look what I/they have achieved from a state school" does not change that fact.

I went to a state school. I have educated myself very well and most would say achived a great deal but I am sure that I hadmore in me and I should have done better and my education, despite what I have achieved has been considerably lacking.

I wouldnt be writing here now if I had been given the schooling opportunities Xenia is giving her DC I am fairly sure.

Ronaldo Mon 04-Feb-13 14:05:00

I did not speak of chavs. I spoke of a "chav culture". When you get that straight we might be gettting somewhere.

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