Independent school League tables

(35 Posts)
bulletpoint Sun 06-Jan-13 23:27:51

im looking for the latest league tables, ive looked at the FT but it only has Indy tables for 2011, whilst the 2012 table is for all secondary schools. Im sure last year an Mner posted a different league table link that showed 'Brighton college' in particular as number 18, does anyone remember the source or this link in particular ?

CecilyP Sun 13-Jan-13 18:08:13

It was one of those newspaper tables - probably one listed up-thread. No, Habs and NLCS were not high enough to check because I only checked the top private school which was Westminster; likewise the top grammar school and the top comprehensive, already mentioned. And I noted the one thing that these 3 schools have in common - that is all.

horsemadmom Sun 13-Jan-13 16:39:04

Habs and NLCS not high enough to check? But you are looking at HB and London Oratory? Which table were you looking at and on which planet? Not meaning to be flip but....
NLCS does take a few at 6th form as a handful leave for co-ed or boarding. I only know of one girl asked to leave after lower 6th as she really wasn't working and wasn't willing to pull her socks up (girl involved agreed with the school.).
I do agree about the difference between top 10-20 schools and those in the 50-80 range. DS's school only kicks boys out in extremis- almost never for academic reasons as they feel that they've taken a kid on and they are responsible for making them achieve or not. I like that attitude. I looked at a school for DD2 after taking her out of a top 10 which had a sudden change in ethos. The proposed new school is around the low 20's (30ish places above DS's). The difference? Only a handful into Oxbridge in the proposed school. Some subjects had uniformly abysmal results. Some subjects not even offered at 6th form. The rankings never tell the whole story.

CecilyP Sun 13-Jan-13 11:40:18

Cecil it is very very rare though at the very top schools. I remember may be 1 or two girls a year joining Habs or NLCS in the sixth form buti t was hardly any and hardly anyone left. It is not as if they let a bunch of thickos in at 11 and then at age 16 suddenly let in children from local comps who get the school moved up the league tables.

You must have misunderstood my post as I was talking about schools that plan and provide for a significant numbers of extra pupils for 6th form - not just replacing those that leave - in fact they could take 30+ extra pupils even if nobody leaves. So no displacement of a 'bunch of thickos' is necessary. And, in terms of private schools, I think they are more likely to recruit pupils from other private schools, rather than children from local comprehensives

I wasn't thinking of Habs or NLCS - they were not high enough in the list for me to check. The table I looked at had Westminster as the top private school and they do take in a significant number of extra pupils, eg girls, for 6th form. Also on the table, the top state grammar school, Henrietta Barnet, and the top state comprehensive, London Oratory, increase their PAN by 30 for 6th form. In the case of HB, this is a 33% increase in pupil numbers.

happygardening Sat 12-Jan-13 17:36:28

Xenia I'm sure they dont let in a bunch of thickos at 11 and chuck them out at 16 but they may find that a child is very bright but not prepared to put in the required level of work even the most able have to be willing to make an effort and this may not be easy to assess at an interview and things change as a child matures sometimes the keen very bright 11 yr old fails to work when it matters. I increasingly hear of children being asked to leave super selectives Wincheter have already told us they will do this if a boy does not get the required grades and I know others do too.
Even DS1 comp requires certain GCSE grades for the 6 th form and at AS level too failure to get either and you will be asked to go.

Xenia Sat 12-Jan-13 16:35:00

Cecil it is very very rare though at the very top schools. I remember may be 1 or two girls a year joining Habs or NLCS in the sixth form buti t was hardly any and hardly anyone left. It is not as if they let a bunch of thickos in at 11 and then at age 16 suddenly let in children from local comps who get the school moved up the league tables.

the Woman - surely it's not snobbery. If most people at Oxbridge have AAA and most people at London Met have DDE it is not wrong for employers to think great you went to Oxbridge (or Haberdashers or whatever) so you must be clever. It's not snobbery - it's pure fact.

happygardening Fri 11-Jan-13 17:37:59

Cecily they also suggest to their current students who are not going to get the required GCSE grades that they leave and find somewhere more suitable! Being in the top 10 means that you are good at selecting the very brightest and willing to ask them to leave if they don't perform to the required standard as well as providing them with an outstanding education.

CecilyP Fri 11-Jan-13 17:21:41

One thing worth bearing in mind when looking at A level league tables is how many extra pupils the school selects for 6th form. Some of the 'top' schools don't just replace the pupils they lose, but take on significant numbers of extra pupils - pupils who are often subject to quite stringent selection criteria - based on excellent GCSE results and more. Information about this is usually available on the schools' websites.

happygardening Fri 11-Jan-13 17:07:37

DS2 at top 10 and I have extensive connections with one other one top 100 according to FT league tables. Its not just the teaching I think its all the other things outside of lessons offered to all at my DS's school are only offered to scholars at the other school and in fact in may other schools higher up the league tables, "extension" work is routine again not just again scholars or the "gifted and talented."
The downside for some of being in a top 10 school is what I call the A* culture the assumption that an A* is the norm and that some must struggle with this kind of pressure. Also my DS is expected to work much harder than many we know at other schools, even those 30 places lower in the FT rankings it's possible I suspect that some may think there's not a lot of fun. Others of course and my DS is one who thrives on it which is a bit of a relief.

TotallyBS Fri 11-Jan-13 15:42:48

Both DCs are at schools that are in the top 50 of whatever table you want to use. DD1's school is about 20 places above DD2's.

When I compare the two schools it is obvious that DD1's position is due to its teaching as opposed to selecting brighter kids. I mean, they cover subjects in greater depth and speed.

So, yes, 20 places difference does matter IMO.

TheWomanOnTheBus Fri 11-Jan-13 15:24:41

Except I am worrying about 20/30 place differences!

I do hate that snobbery which Xenia mentions though. DS won't go to one of the top 10 schools simply because he has no desire to (genuinely don't like Westimnster for various reasons, for eg), not because he isn't clever enough (not saying he is clever enough, but hey who knows until we try the tests?).

Just like Oxbridge people (and some Oxbridge lovers) think you have to be cleverer just because you went there.

<trying to hide chip on shoulder>

musicalfamily Fri 11-Jan-13 15:08:07

PS Same question as TheWomanonTheBus really!

musicalfamily Fri 11-Jan-13 15:06:44

Xenia would you say a school that say is top 150 (I am thinking Leeds Grammar, now GSAL) is still considered academic or you need to go top 10?

Xenia Fri 11-Jan-13 14:59:23

Also you might do better at school if everyone in the class is clever rather than many who aren't which is another reason bright children may do better at schools higher up the charts.

Xenia Fri 11-Jan-13 14:58:51

The FT table is pretty good as it is A levels and not knitting ones and also it is surely not that hard to strip out the state schools to work out a private school ranking if you do the right sums. I think it's really helpful to have state schools in the tables too.

Person asking why it matters... well my daughter last year in a new area at work her boss asked where she'd gone to school. She gave the name (well known, high places academic girls' school) and apparently was impressed. In other words it kind of helped build the picture that she was quite bright. Whereas if you say you went to XYZ (I won't give names - well known private schools which are almost comprehensive) everyone knows you probably aren't that clever as if you were your parents would have picked somewhere else.

TheWomanOnTheBus Fri 11-Jan-13 14:19:10

'scuse typos!

TheWomanOnTheBus Fri 11-Jan-13 14:18:46

OP sees a big difference which Joan can't imagine (and I'm with Joan) between 19th and 49th in ranking.

Genuine question:

I am (ok DS is) chosing between two schools one ranked say 40th to 60th in FT the other 80th to 100th.

I know there is supposed to be some heirarcharchy in the schools but does it really matter? All else being equal (of course). Doesn't it just mean that the kids in the first school are due to selection criteria brighter (but only slightly brighter) than those in the other one? And if your DS is destined for Oxbridge, he'd get there from whichever... All these schools are selective and have an academic ethos.

Perhaps - for some - it depends on whether you want a DS to be "average" in cohort (in the less selective one) rather than bottom of cohort. And in any case wouldn't the less selective one stream so you still get a concentration of the very brightest in the top.

What else do people see as a difference?

As I say, genuine question....

florenceuk Fri 11-Jan-13 10:33:14

whoops I meant no 18. Amazing what you can find by googling.

florenceuk Fri 11-Jan-13 10:32:50

in case anyone is interested this site has Brighton College at no 118 if you rank by GSCE results here. Hope this helps!

Ronaldo Fri 11-Jan-13 06:43:57

I am not awareof anyhistories and dont want to get involved but I am aware also that Brigton College has been awared some accolade of " Best Independent School" and is currently trading on a ranking of 18th nationally.

Even some of our year 11's have applied for this school ratherthan coming into our sixth form because of that. Its rather annoying really as we are also a "top ranked school" as if they have something we do not and somehow their something will rub off on the pupils applying......

I beleive this is something a lot of other schools may have experienced too.

I guess this is why some independents are refusing to publish now - not fear of their results just this kind of game playing ( in a difficult econiomic climate)

My personal subject results btw were better than theirs - but the kids ( and some parents) dont see that. they cant see beyond the hype.

TotallyBS Thu 10-Jan-13 23:28:50

Lilymaid: the OP's comment was a bit aggressive but it was relatively mild

Lilymaid Thu 10-Jan-13 22:58:18

I reported the thread on Monday after the OP's comments - but Mumsnet Towers didn't delete.

MLP Thu 10-Jan-13 21:52:53

Thanks, Joan. OP - you have a pretty poor attitude to someone who is just trying to help you.

Amber2 Tue 08-Jan-13 21:53:59

I found your links helpful Joan and yes somewaht surprised at the OP's response ...though I must admit I don't fully understand the FT tables myself...or how they are compiled

happygardening Tue 08-Jan-13 08:28:49

I agree Totally the OP seemed surprisingly and unnecessarily aggressive towards Joan but them there seems to be quite a bit if that around on MN education at the moment.

TotallyBS Tue 08-Jan-13 07:23:58

Joan: I don't know what your history is with the OP but if I was getting bitch slapped by the OP I certainly wouldn't be wasting my time with her thread.

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