The National Curriculum.

(199 Posts)
seeker Tue 11-Dec-12 12:13:59

People complain about it all the time.

Which bits of it do they not want their children to learn?

MiniTheMinx Sun 16-Dec-12 17:59:43

I don't think the national curriculum stretches the most able in Key stage 2. Or should that be, the focus on children to attain a level 4 at the end of year six places pressure upon teachers to focus their attention on the chuggers. I took DS1 out in year four because provision was not being made for him.

I don't think the work in primary in challenging enough and recently when my mother died I unearthed some of my old school books. DS1 and I sat and looked through them. Pages and pages of handwriting, using an ink pen, joined up, few spelling mistakes and still I was receiving Bs for effort and content! I was 7 years old. My teachers had very high expectations.

I also think the NC at primary is too wide and varied and children need to master the basics of English and Maths otherwise their enjoyment and attainment in other subjects is limited.

exoticfruits Sun 16-Dec-12 18:03:33

Yet again I think that people are confusing the NC with how it is implemented in schools.

mrz Sun 16-Dec-12 18:06:08

I agree exoticfruits. There is nothing in the NC that prevents teachers from stretching pupils

MiniTheMinx Sun 16-Dec-12 18:11:36

The NC is implemented in schools not hospitals or zoos, so of course it matters how it is implemented in schools !

What it actually is and isn't is relevant but only within the context of what is implemented. Or do we just want to look at it as a stand alone document never intended for use.

exoticfruits Sun 16-Dec-12 18:13:45

It is a framework. I wonder if people have actually read it. I am convinced they confuse it with QCA units etc.

MiniTheMinx Sun 16-Dec-12 18:18:21

I think some people can not read, read sentence two !

So what is it that prevents teachers from stretching the most able pupils? It's not the NC so what is it? are they a nuisance? my son was a nuisance, it would have been far easier for his teacher to sit him in a corner with a book to read. oh, that's what she did, she also refused to answer his questions, failed to mark his work, rarely set extension tasks and withheld his books so that he couldn't complete the homework in the time frame she had set. When she set extension tasks and he finished these, she refused to mark it and couldn't give him any feedback because her mental maths skills meant she had to consult a book for the answer!

mrz Sun 16-Dec-12 18:21:09

"The NC is implemented in schools not hospitals" not quite true ... have you heard of the home hospital education service.

Feenie Sun 16-Dec-12 18:21:55

That's not the NC, Mini, that's a shit teacher.

LaVolcan Sun 16-Dec-12 18:23:00

Pages and pages of handwriting, using an ink pen, joined up, few spelling mistakes and still I was receiving Bs for effort and content! I was 7 years old. My teachers had very high expectations.

I am not sure that this entirely due to high expectations. Some of it is educational fashion. I went to one junior school which taught joined up writing using ink pens from age 7-8. I changed school, aged 10 and they were still printing (can't remember whether they used ink or not) and weren't taught joined up writing until just before secondary school. I can't remember the reason here - I think they felt that it confused children if introduced too soon. (I thought them very babyish.)

Fast forward to my children's schools, and they began to introduce joined up writing at age 7-8 again, although pen and ink had bitten the dust.

We got stars for our work - no such thing as As or Bs until secondary school. Or marks out of 10 for spellings, arithmetic etc.

mrz Sun 16-Dec-12 18:25:47

What it actually is and isn't is relevant but only within the context of what is implemented. Or do we just want to look at it as a stand alone document never intended for use.

Well it is a stand alone statutory document that lays out what must be taught between the ages of 5 and 16. What it doesn't do is say how or when each part should be taught. The fact that 11 year old pupils in primary are achieving level 5 & 6 (the expected level for most 14 year olds) seems to suggest some schools are doing a very good job of stretching pupils in primary.

seeker Sun 16-Dec-12 18:25:55

Mini- that's a rubbish school and a rubbish teacher. And one who will get her arse bitten by OFSTED.

MiniTheMinx Sun 16-Dec-12 18:28:36

hahahah home hospital, can you find something similar for training circus animals?

Please read para 1, I didn't say that the NC was of and in itself the whole problem. What I said was that teachers focus on levels. It is the focus on ensuring ALL children attain a L4 that was the problem.

The NC stipulates what subjects should be covered and the level of knowledge children should be expected to attain. I assume the level of knowledge is what is measured when children are assessed. Or are you assessing something else entirely?

So are you going to tell me that Levels have nothing to do with NC?

MiniTheMinx Sun 16-Dec-12 18:41:47

The fact that 11 year old pupils in primary are achieving level 5 & 6 (the expected level for most 14 year olds) seems to suggest some schools are doing a very good job of stretching pupils in primary

Or could it be that the levels are too easily obtainable and when they were set, there was little variation and only a small step up between each level.

mrz Sun 16-Dec-12 18:42:43

Minnie I have a pupil who needs frequent hospital stays and she has a teacher who must follow the NC. So not hahahah but fact!

and no the circus animals don't follow the NC but the children of performers do.

LaVolcan Sun 16-Dec-12 18:43:13

hahahah home hospital, can you find something similar for training circus animals?

You are being really offensive Mini. Do you not think that children who are sick are not entitled to an education?

LaVolcan Sun 16-Dec-12 18:45:56

I was so furious with Mini for her insensitive post that I put too many 'nots' in - it should read that 'Do you think that children who are sick are not entitled to an education?

cornycarrotshack Sun 16-Dec-12 18:51:45

Mini you are very ignorant

MiniTheMinx Sun 16-Dec-12 18:54:23

No, I was being self deprecating, sorry. I laughed because I was laughing at my own stupidity, when Mrz put me right. Of course children in hospital require and deserve education.

ReallyTired England Sun 16-Dec-12 18:54:58

I worked in a hospital school and they followed the national curriuclum. The children got the treatment that they needed and kept up with the classmates inspite of being months off mainstream school.

If there was no national curriculum then the education of sick children would suffer even more.

exoticfruits Sun 16-Dec-12 19:19:33

The NC means that if DCs are in hospital they won't miss out-it also helps if DCs move around e.g. army families.

seeker Sun 16-Dec-12 19:26:50

It also means that a crap teacher can be called to account. Which did not happen in the past.

MiniTheMinx Sun 16-Dec-12 19:32:06

Heavens, it was a joke because I had used zoo and hospital as an example in a previous post.

If that is the case then why do some children still study the Romans twice and miss out on the Vikings. In one school it is Tudors in Yr 2 and another Tudors in Yr 4. So exotic that doesn't hold up and is a contradiction of what mrz said.

Ronaldo Sun 16-Dec-12 20:12:15

I despise the fact that you are pleased that the child was thrown out. Ever heard of Every Child Matters?

My DS was not thrown out. Where did you get that ideafrom or are you just trying to make some story up to justify your personal abuse of me? I will thank you not to make things up in pursuit of that.

Yes everychild does matter. That means my DS and your DC. However from much of what is above here, it seems that only those who have mental health issues matter to the detriment of all others.

I wont continue further except to say that this side of the Atlantic big questions are being asked about societies sanity in allowing children with clear mental health and other social problems in the community or in school and about the matters arising from not being able to section such individuals, especially in the light of the events of a couple of days ago in Sandy Hook.

They dont have to be grown up to run amockand its being questioned closely now. Nothing more to say as I know it will be a sensitive issue on MN.

As for the NC, well it isnt working is it?

Ronaldo Sun 16-Dec-12 20:18:07

Didn't you remove him because his teacher suggested he had handwriting difficulties and suggested helping him with fine motor skills Jabed? You got very upset with me for posting some suggested activities as I recall

No mrz, I did not remove him because of handwriting issues. That was the issue that brought events in the school to light for me. It became apparent that the class teacher did not even know who my DS was and she got him mixed up with anothyer child and told us the sorry tale. When asked to explain she could not because she had got it wrong and knew it ( had we continued he might well have been labelled with something he was not suffering from).

However going into the school it became apparent as to why she had made the mistake and why she didnt know who the hell was who. She had a class with a large number of challenging children with different social needs ( and mental health issues?). There was fighting and spitting and kicjing and such and the crunch came when my DS who was becoming more distressed in this class came home having been kicked by one of those poor kids who we cant give up on as teachers. So, I removed him from the school because they could not keep him safe.

mrz Sun 16-Dec-12 20:19:25

My DS was not thrown out. Where did you get that idea from

Christmas wasn't referring to your son Jabed but this child
Unfortunately he lasted on morning with us before an incident (he told one of the teachers to "f* off” in his first lesson. He was out of school before the lunch time bell rang (and out of class before the first 20 mins was up).

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