Dd wants to drop Latin only selected children are invited to do

[Mumthebuilder]

I feels little disappointed dd wants to drop Latin. She's in year 8 in A1 at her private school and only the top are invited to do it. She seemed to enjoy it at the beginning and was surprised when others dropped out but now after half term shes gone back and is struggling. I am not a pushy parent but try to be supportive and persuasive if I feel it's right. Still struggling from guilt and disappointment she didn't get in at state grammar like her sibling ( although in our eyes brighter!!) so want to do best for her - do we just accept and allow her to drop it or persuade her with the aid of internet or asking the school for extra tuition etc any help appreciated..... Thanks

[OhYoubadbadKitten]

Are there other extra things that she does? What is her passion?

[vj32]

When could she drop it?

[Nigglenaggle]

Have a word with her and give her your reasons why you think she should continue, and find out why she wants to drop it. Make sure she isnt just giving in to self doubt or silly reasons. But ultimately, if she really is getting nothing from it, in her opinion, I dont think you should push for her to stay. She'd be better off going for something different she really enjoys.

[Abra1d]

Is she doing Cambridge Latin Course? There is a good online site with test and games to help. My two have both found it helped with learning vocab and some of the grammar. Perhaps ask her to try this for a few weeks and see if it helps?

[Hassled]

Maybe the teacher isn't very inspiring, or the way the curriculum is delivered is just a bit dull - maybe she just doesn't like Latin that much. I think she's old enough to make a considered decision re dropping it or not - let it go. It would be a shame if she does drop it, because I think Latin helps enormously in understanding how language works, but there's nothing worse than being made to study a subject you just don't care about.

[Mumthebuilder]

Great thanks very much for that I'll give it a try this weekend - I had dreadful education - the teachers struggled to teach basic English so Latin is all ...... Latin to me!!!

[LynetteScavo]

This is probably one of the toughest quandaries I have ever seen on MN. Normally things are quite clear cut for me.

I would encourage her to keep it up until Christmas, and see how she feels then. If she really, really hates it she won't do well in it anyway.

Having said that, we are making DS1 take Spanish GCSE even though he hates it with a passion, and will very probably won't do well in it.

Oh, and try to get over her not passing the 11+. I know it's hard, but it's just one test. I'm quite sure your DD is brighter than other DC who passed.


So, I say try and look at the bigger picture. When she has a good set of GCSEs and A'levels, will it really matter if she has Latin or not?

[DinosaurSchool]

I did Latin GCSE many years ago (though have no idea why I choose it really). Since then I have found it sooo useful at picking up other languages when I'm on holiday etc. it also helps me take a decent guess at definitions when I'm reading words I haven't seen before. Also ds1 is learning Italian in yr1 and I can help a bit with that. All from my Latin knowledge.

I don't know if that would've convinced me when I was your dd's age to stick at it but she will benefit from it ultimately.

[ZZZenAgain]

why is she struggling, do you know? If she is in the top set, she is capable of it. She may not like the teacher or it may be that she has fallen behind with learning endings. Unfortunately, these have to be learnt off by heart and practised when you encounter them because you very soon encounter the next forms. Initially you don't move very fast so you can get away with not bothering too much about this for a bit and then you get lost.

The speed with which you have to learn these forms varies from course to course. Some have you doing 3 declinations in all cases by chapter 3 of book 1; Cambridge has just the nominative and accusative cases till you reach chapter 9 when the dative is introduced. That is it for declinations then for book 1, which covers adjective endings for those cases and the imperfect tense in all persons I think. My dd used a different course.

You can cruise for a while without doing all the rote learning and practise but at some stage it catches up on you. It is unavoidable really. If she has not been learning very long, she can still cover that ground. Maybe you can help with that systematic coverage. What might also help generally is using an extra exercise book. Practice makes perfect, it really does, at least it stops you having to think and think which case could this be, to which noun does this adjective refer and so on. My dd used the following book alongside her course material. The exercise book followed a different order of acquisition but is simple to use on your own without a tutor or parental guidance IMO because it spends a long time on nominative/accusative till that has really sunk in and perhaps 3rd person sing and 3rd person pl of 1st and 2nd conjugation verbs rather than all forms of 1st conjugation verbs at once.

This book: Latin Practise Exercises

The book has no answers in the back. You can either purchase an answer book but I think it is really not necessary at this stage. Grammar is explained before it is practised, little chunks of grammar are practised over and over, very clear and straight-forward.

[Mumthebuilder]

Ohyoubadbadkitten - shes an absolute joy of a daughter - enthusiastic fast thinking and not at all lazy - she loves doing lots of things but no one or two specific things. She was really determined to do the Latin when it was offered so I'm unsure of this about turn. I'm trying to support her in whatever she wants to do but don't want her throwing away an opportunity she might later regret!!

[lizziebach]

are you sure that the other children who dropped out are not putting pressure on her to drop out?

[ZZZenAgain]

could you tell us which book your dd's class is working from?

If she does not already know them, I would get the Roman Mysteries from Caroline Lawrence for your dd, you can also get the dvds from the tv series; but I think the main problem is that she has become confused with the grammar.

[Mumthebuilder]

Thanks for all the great replies - I can't give you any more info because she's in bed but I will certainly be looking at the DVDs and books suggested before letting her give up - I think she struggles with confidence after not passing for grammar school!! And prob thinks if she drops out at least she won't fail!!!! We try very much to be positive about the bad experience but are reminded of it each time people ask us why we have 2 children at seperate schools!! one being a highly selective the other being private the " they are at the best schools for them" answer doesn't ring true!!
But no I don't think her friends are encouraging her to give up but she seems to be surprised at how easily they've been allowed to give up.

[ZZZenAgain]

could be that she was proud to be included in this group at first since it was not open to everyone but no longer sees it as something really desirable now that dc are choosing to drop the subject.

[TalkinPeace2]

DD is doing Latin at her comp and just utterly loves it
it may come down to the teacher ....

Latin of one of those subjects that is so useful

• core of all of the Romance Languages
  
• used in all scientific and medical terminology
  
• good for looking geeky in museums and on radio 4 / bbc 2 quizzes
  

try to narrow down WHY she wants to stop and work from there

[happygardening]

To do well in Latin you need to learn the grammar and there is a lot of. The other problem from what I understand (DS doing IGCSE Latin) is the set texts which you have to virtually learn off by heart. My DS is pretty good at Latin and at one time considered keeping it up at Pre U but is being completely put off because of learning set text. My nephew also chucked in A level Latin for the same reason.
On a positive note DS started German last year and it has definitely helped with that.

[TalkinPeace2]

Happy
DD is not doing the IGCSE : its got much less (I think hardly any) of the bellum, bellum, bella that killed it for us and is killing it for your DS
it seems to be much more about how to convert Latin into English and use the words as they are used now
and she certainly won't be doing the A level

[happygardening]

We have been very reliably informed by a highly regarded Latin teacher that IGCSE latin is the equivalent to AS level! My nephew dropped normal A level he achieved an A in the AS but found learning the set text tedious in extreme.

[TalkinPeace2]

which is cool unless its so heavy that kids drop it rather than carry it on and feel enthused about the language
DD is doing Latin because it will be useful in her anticipated career choices
why are your Ds and nephew doing it?

[Abra1d]

My son is doing GCSE Latin and just loves the set texts. He is doing one piece about witches he finds fascinating. He finds it much easier to learn the translations than some of the grammar. Horses for courses, I suppose.

[happygardening]

Talkin DS does it becasue he has to (he also happens to be very good at it) dont really know why nephew did it as he's a maths physics person I think there is this idea that people think your clever of you do well in it God knows if this is true. I believe the IGCSE has seen paper latin to english translation and vice versa answering questions about latin passage but the unseen requires learning chunks of very difficult Latin DH has A level latin and he really struggled with it and apparently its not necessarily correct or good latin!

[TalkinPeace2]

happy
I forgot that Latin would probably be compulsory to 16 at his school - makes utter sense as the whole school are the equivalent of the top set in a comp!
Shame that they have made bits of it utterly dull though - see if they can downgrade to the normal GCSE and have more fun

[lljkk]

I vote carry on until Christmas & let her drop it then if she still wants to.

I do not see any special merit in studying Latin. I would far prefer DC had the chance to study a living language (like Spanish). Sadly not available around here at all until 6th form.

DD is doing Latin in a state primary.

[happygardening]

Talkin Unseen paper is fine hopefully with a bit more work on seen he'll feel more positive about it. Entrance exam equivilant to GCSE infact one part AS level so little point in changing to GCSE only those who have never done Latin sit it.

[happygardening]

I too suggest she carries on my DS had his ups and downs in the past and I think you can get stuck in a bit of a rut for a while but if she perseveres hopefully it will start to come together. My DS had a truely awful teacher at prep and we found a fantastic tutor who after a couple of lessons reignited my DSs enthusiasm and this inspired him to really work hard for his entrance exam and do incredably well. But inspirational tutors are virtually impossible to find the one we used people came from miles and miles away.