11+

(145 Posts)
GracieW Sat 23-Jun-12 21:49:06

How much time does your Year 5 DC spend working for this (either tutoring or homework)?

Just want to get an idea of the time commitment...

TIA

MumTryingHerBest Sun 05-Oct-14 07:48:38

TheFirstOfHerName I am a bit shocked that so many parents think their sons aren't being pushed hard enough. exactly what I thought given the published exam results.

RabbitOfNegativeEuphoria 100% of kids aren't supposed to get into grammar schools. I fully agree. However, SW Herts is a rather unique animal.

Those who get the highest marks can choose from 7 schools (8 if they qualify for QEB and possibliy 9 if they also pass the Bucks CEM test). Those who don't sit the 11 plus or get a low mark don't get a choice, they get allocated one of the three non-ranked schools or have to wait to see where they will end up (to emphasis the point, the area is facing a shortage of school places).

The consortium schools prioritise siblings (unlike standard grammar schools where siblings get in on the test).

The consortium schools also allocate distance only places. Unfortunately given that the two grammars are surrounded by rental flats and houses people simply move into the area, procure a place at the school, move back out and then benefit from the sibling places. Given that builders have just broken ground on a housing development within 300/400 metres of Parmiters, I'm waiting to see if it has the same impact on that school too.

For first born children living near Watford Boys who are not cared for, SEN or living more than 250 metres from the school, they are looking at trying to get one of the 19 academic places or one of 10 music place (in a standard grammar they will be looking to get one of 180 places). From what I understand, in order to get one of the academic places the child will need to gain a score that will place them in the top 4% of their cohort (not the top 25% or so that you find with many standard grammars). Granted this is the most extreme example in Watford but it does affect a good number of children.

I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm not saying it's right, but for me, as a local parent, it does raise the stress levels somewhat.

TheFirstOfHerName Sun 05-Oct-14 07:18:33

Parents obviously don't like the online reporting system! We have known nothing else, so have nothing to compare it with.

I am a bit shocked that so many parents think their sons aren't being pushed hard enough.

I don't know why so many parents were unhappy with the Biology teaching. One teacher, perhaps?

The school has made changes to its careers advice in response to the survey; it now starts in Y9 and is more extensive.

RabbitOfNegativeEuphoria Sun 05-Oct-14 02:58:31

Mumtryingherbest No, 100% of the kids in DD2s class were not level 6 in maths at the beginning of Y6 or indeed at the end. 3 kids were L6 at the beginning, about 6 by the end. 5 of them took the 11+ - for a superselective - including all the 3 who startedY6 on L6. 3 of them passed completely (category A) and one of them got in having passed 2 of the 3 papers (VR, English and maths). The 3 who passed completely were the 3 who started the year already L6 for maths (and mid-high L5 for English). 9% of the kids in the year therefore got into the superselective which is pretty good going servings as there were only 120 places for a massive geographical area - certainly less than 9% of all the secondary school places available. 100% of kids aren't supposed to get into grammar schools. To expect that is just bonkers. The really bright kids will be at the right level, they are the ones who 'should' be going to grammar school (if you buy into grammar schools, which I do). It's supposed to be a differentiating test. You just can't expect 100% of kids to pass it.

voddiekeepsmesane Sat 04-Oct-14 22:22:05

oh oh no I haven't seen this ...thanks off to read it now

MumTryingHerBest Sat 04-Oct-14 22:18:47

voddiekeepsmesane off topic but not sure if you've seen the parents survey on WGBS web site. Some interesting points in it regarding confidence of the children and academic progress smile:

www.watfordboys.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=35&Itemid=37

Not necessarily deal breaker stuff but interesting reading (there are ranking comparisons with other comparable schools which I imagine would include Parmiters)

voddiekeepsmesane Sat 04-Oct-14 22:04:10

Fair enough MumTryingHerBest smile

MumTryingHerBest Sat 04-Oct-14 21:54:51

voddiekeepsmesane Like I said I will be happy with the local Academy if that is what deems best for our DS.

I have posted exactly the same on the thread:

MumTryingHerBest Sat 04-Oct-14 01:31:55
Onlygrammarisgoodenough Scarily intelligent and well prepared children, too, Voddie.

My poor DD will not be able to compete

What year is your DD in? To be fair, I was blown away by Bushey Academy and I will be more than happy to put it as my safe option (provided I am in catchment next year). I Know someone who has a DD there so have the reassurance I need that my DC will do well there

No, this is not intended to be funny. I have cut and pasted the post simply to back up my claim.

voddiekeepsmesane Sat 04-Oct-14 21:47:09

Forget it ...I was trying to show you that there is another way of thinking within the 11+ system, actually there are many ways of looking at it. While I appreciate that you see it as a highly competitive market, I see it as a means to an end. Like I said I will be happy with the local Academy if that is what deems best for our DS.

voddiekeepsmesane Sat 04-Oct-14 21:43:25

Sarcasm the lowest form of wit

MumTryingHerBest Sat 04-Oct-14 21:40:16

you feel the need to justify how little/much others/yourself do tutoring or what others consider tutoring/familiarisation.

I was commenting on a thread as per the topic of discussion:

How much time does your Year 5 DC spend working for this (either tutoring or homework)?

I appreciate you feel my posts were completely irrelevant to this.

voddiekeepsmesane Sat 04-Oct-14 21:31:23

You seem to think I am against you or at the very least you feel the need to justify how little/much others/yourself do tutoring or what others consider tutoring/familiarisation. Chill do whatever you feel is right, stop worrying what others do. My original post was about how competitive I felt people get about 11+ but it was near the end of our 11+ journey that I allowed myself the headspace to think about what others were doing before that we just focused on what was right for our family. MumTryingHerBest you have a year to go you will burn yourself out if you do not chill a bit IMO

MumTryingHerBest Sat 04-Oct-14 21:22:53

voddiekeepsmesane STOP with the documents please MumTryingHerBest it is coming across as very condescending. I apologise, it was not intended to be condescending, I was backing up my claims with what I felt demonstrated the reason for my view point.

MumTryingHerBest Sat 04-Oct-14 21:20:27

voddiekeepsmesane ...I am not a sheep I don't believe I said you were.

Just because some from Watford do it does not make it right again, I don't believe I said it was. I was trying to highlight the fact that the problem in Herts is having a cascade affect into other areas.

MumTryingHerBest Sat 04-Oct-14 21:17:10

voddiekeepsmesane just because you think everyone else is tutoring to death does not mean they are. just to make it clear, I do not think people are tutoring to death. I do think that the majority of people are doing more than 1 hour a week tutoring as you yourself have demonstrated. This will be particularly the case with people who are using tutors (which, as you have pointed out, is very much on the increase) given that the tuition session itself will normally be an hour long and many tutors give additional work to do at home.

If I'm honest I think 3 hours a week of tutoring is doing considerably more than just familiarisation. I appreciate you see it differently.

voddiekeepsmesane Sat 04-Oct-14 21:13:33

Just because some from Watford do it does not make it right ...I am not a sheep

voddiekeepsmesane Sat 04-Oct-14 21:12:20

But not in their hundreds as North and West London children do with the consortium test

voddiekeepsmesane Sat 04-Oct-14 21:10:32

STOP with the documents please MumTryingHerBest it is coming across as very condescending. I have seen and read all these links you are putting up and just because I have a different view to you does not mean I am wrong in what I think just as much as what you feel isn't wrong. I suppose the whole thing of what I am saying and have been trying to say for many post is you do whats best for your child and family and just because you think everyone else is tutoring to death does not mean they are.

MumTryingHerBest Sat 04-Oct-14 21:09:32

voddiekeepsmesane If I was in your situation I would do the same as you people in Watford try to gain places at schools outside the county in the same way that out of county people try to gain places at the SW Herts Schools (admittedly in much, much lower numbers).

From what I have heard, 8 boys from Watford got places at Chesham Grammar this year.

Bucks parents are becoming increasingly more concerned about the trend in the same way that Herts parents are.

voddiekeepsmesane Sat 04-Oct-14 20:59:10

FiveHoursSleep I know most areas are lacking spaces I suppose I am defensive about places because I live in the consortium inner cathment. If I was in your situation I would do the same as you smile

I can see your point voddie, but I don't think the outer catchment is going to go anywhere soon. The Grammars are Academies now and they can set their own admission criteria and the outer catchment area is a long held tradition.
The area we live in suffers from a lack of school places too, hence our children travelling to school, but the Dof E has just announced the opening of a new secondary school in 180, which should alleviate things in our area.

MumTryingHerBest Sat 04-Oct-14 20:38:33

voddiekeepsmesane it is a well known fact that pupils are encouraged to only go for exams that are a sure thing once at GCSE or A level

I think you will find that every school in the consortium insist on a minimum grade at GCSE in order to continue the subject to A level. I have specifically asked about this during the school open evenings and the levels are consistent across all the consortium schools. I am happy to stand corrected if you can provide me with an example of where this is not the case.

If you are indeed a member of the eleven plus site then you will know this has been the case at the grammars, Parmiters, QE etc etc

TBH I have never seen a single post that makes this claim regarding Parmiters or the Grammars on the elevenplus website.

The following document gives a very specific break down of results and if what you claim is true, I have to question why there are E and U grades included (admittedly very few of them)

www.watfordgrammarschoolforgirls.org.uk/docs/exam_results/results-2013-for-website.pdf

I have seen a great deal of discussion regarding QEB and the A level cull but given that school is not in the consortium, I'm not sure why this school would be relevant.

TheFirstOfHerName Sat 04-Oct-14 20:35:28

<waves at FiveHoursSleep >
How is your DD2 getting on?

voddiekeepsmesane Sat 04-Oct-14 20:30:33

I am not saying they do not have access to other schools ....you really are on a one tracked mind. I am saying that Watford especially North Watford have NO walkable secondary schools at all. You seem to forget that you are a year behind me in looking at all this and think that I am clueless to some aspects of what is what within the consortium, I can assure you I have and do agonise over this but it is what it is at the moment and we do the best think for our children.

MumTryingHerBest Sat 04-Oct-14 20:22:25

*voddiekeepsmesane No Rickmansworth has Rickmansworth school, Croxley has St Clements Danes and a new school being built

According to this report the shortage of school places is projected for the Rickmansworth, Croxley Green and Watford area. The shortage is not exclusive to Watford (pg 19):

www.hertsdirect.org/docs/pdf/m/risingdemand

To suggest that people living in Watford only have access to the Grammars and Westfield is simply not true. I know people living in Watford who have children at every one of the consortium schools.

Based on the point you have made, are you therefore suggesting that St Clement Danes and Rickmansworth School exclude applicants from the Watford area once those areas are removed from the Catchment for the other consortium schools?

voddiekeepsmesane Sat 04-Oct-14 20:18:45

Because dear MumTryingHerBest the expectation of a child getting in on a sibling place and a child getting in on an academic place is totally different ( trying to keep my cool here) please do not be naïve to think otherwise. The academic results are always skewed it is a well known fact that pupils are encouraged to only go for exams that are a sure thing once at GCSE or A level, not always but often that happens. If you are indeed a member of the eleven plus site then you will know this has been the case at the grammars, Parmiters, QE etc etc

I DO NOT generalise SOME over tutored children will not do well, SOME non tutored children will do well etc etc etc

The main thing I came on here to say a few months ago is what I have said over and over I WILL NOT tutor my DS to death just to pass a bloody test for him to struggle for years to come. Whatever result he gets in two weeks time will be what it is and we will make a decision from that. DO NOT assume that ALL parents of the West Herts Consortium are as competitive as you or your school ground chums

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