NAGTY - Tinker99 - tell us more!

[roisin]

Hi Tinker. I'd love to know more about NAGTY. You say you've had a number of years' experience with them: please tell us more!

In particular I understood that all schools identify the top 5-10% of their pupils as G&T, irrespective of the 'level'. (As these "out of the usual spectrum" of pupils are the ones most difficult to cater for, even though the 'spectrum' is different in different schools.)

Is this not the case? Or is eligibility for NAGTY on a different criteria?

[tinker99]

Hi roisin. I would be glad to answer any questions. I acually visit various schools..informing them of NAGTY criteria and advising them on their "own" G+T polocies.
Iam also involved with members forum..It is a fantastic way for the kids to chat to one another and discuss summer school and outreach activities.
Yes you are correct "most" schols have some sort of G+T proramme of their own...yet the range of abilities in these programmes varies wildly from school to school.
NAGTY is completly different and apart from this . It deals only with the top 5% nationally and the best and usual way of measuring this is by using CAT or Midyis or YELLIS.
These tests require no extra work and schools use the results to plot a graph for each pupil ending with GCSE results.
If the child stays on graph thet are "on target" but if they coast or fall below, the school can recognise this and take action.
NAGTY take the top 5% from these tests.

[roisin]

Wow! Sounds like a fascinating job! How did you get into that then? Are you a teacher?

What do you think is the most important thing schools should have in their G&T policies, but generally don't?

What do you think they could most usefully be doing for G&T students, but aren't?

[RTKangaMummy]

I get very frustrated that DS has been idenified as being top 2 % for english from NFer and CAT

BUT primary school don't do anything

They only do maths G & T programme

DH is one of the governors and also a teacher but we don't really get anywhere

It seems that if they are Maths then something is done but not english

In his entrance exams for indep senior school he was at the top for english and we were told it is very unusual for english G & T to apply whereas the maths G & T ones all apply

I am sure this is because no one ever does anything for the english ones

BTW I do know that G & T means everything including sport and music talents but I usually refer to it as the GITs but didn't want to offend

[tinker99]

Well Roisin..It does indeed sound an interesting job BUT it can be very frustrating and the travelling is starting to get me down. Iam trying to be more "office based" and Iam moving towards dealing with choosing applicants for summer schools that are held throughout the country.
Its a very busy time at the moment as we are sifting through those applicants at the moment.

Iam such an advocate of these summer schools they can totally turn a child around if they have been coasting or dumbing down to fit in.
Spending 2 or 3 weeks with like minded children studying a subject they enjoy can be the boost they need.
You see the key is "Enrichment". Not being advanced through key stages. To explore a suject sideways rather than fast forward .
This is what schools can do to help their own g+T.
Yet so many schools ignore this simple fact. That is where NAGTY can help..that is the main aim of Outreach and Summer school.
Hope to post more later...Got to put my dd age 6 to bed!!

[Piffle]

We have been looking into the summer programmes, dp is chuntering about costs but I am keen to find out more.
I think they base some at Warwick Uni, this is what I've gleaned from a little googling.
Although I've been keen that ds should be on NAGTY given his results, I'm still sceptical about its benefits as some people view it as a bit of a white elephant.
DS will be formally admitted in April we have been told, so I expect we'll find out a little more at that time.

[tinker99]

Hi...Kanga, Just saw your message. How old is your ds? Is he now in yr 7? Or has he just done his entrance exam and is in yr 6?
Have you applied for a scholarship to the Independant school?
It is very common for G+T to be totally ignored in primary school. Most members of NAGTY where not in any sort of programme in primary school. Yet they were picked up quickly in yr7.
Yes..that is often the case with English as it is so open to interpratation. Yet as he gets older he will find being gifted at English such an advantage in ALL subjects...whereas this is not the case with a gift for Maths.

[Piffle]

Totally agree about the English being an advantage. We had noticed ds tailing off in English with his preference for maths and science over the last 18 mths. We were also told by his form tutor that this is very common.We have encouraged him quite a lot and thankfully his teacher has much experience at this and has managed to engage the whole class, which has peaked his interest again.
RTKM - I understand your frustration though, hopefully it is only a short time before your ds's ability is noted properly!

[RTKangaMummy]

He is 10 and so year 6

he has been given the place at the indep sec school

we didn't need or want the scholarship cos DH teaches there so it is not fair that we use up a scholarship place

[Tinker]

[RTKangaMummy]

I was wondering about he courses or camps

what do you put into google to find out about them

I think he may be G & T in science well chemistry anyway

DH teaches chemistry

and DS had a friend here on sleepover last week and was building her the molecule models showing her methane, octane etc and explaining it all to her

DH says he understands stuff some of his GCSE kids don't understand

He was also explaining PI to his friend and talking about working out area and circumference of saturn etc.

She was rather puzzled but was very sweet about it saying "oh that is interesting I didn't know that"

All his class think him weird and eccentric but his friend L is so sweet to him and sort of puts up with his weird ways

[tinker99]

Oh...another tinker.{smile}. Sorry..I might change my name to avoid confusion. Although i doubt I'll be posting much..I have managed to lurk here for almost 1 yr without joining but now that I've bit the bullet there might be no stopping me.
I,ve already made Dh put dd to bed instead of doing it myself because I was too busy posting.

[Piffle]

MN is a scourge really
RTKM
Its a little eye opening when your kids surpass your own knowledge at things though...
If ds would only want to discuss essay writing and not algebraic mountains... and parabolas...

[RTKangaMummy]

I know

I am hoping he will get all his answers from DH

My knowledge will run out long before his does

[snailspace]

Message withdrawn

[Piffle]

Sometimes I just look at him in disbelief.
I'm your mother child, not the font of all knowledge
Why on earth do you think they invented Google is my usual refrain!

[RTKangaMummy]

Piffle

[tinker99]

Hi..snailspace. . It is a very good point you have brought up. I have found in my experience that giftedness in maths is more or less evenly spread between the sexes...BUT giftedness in english is more likely in females.
I don't think schools take more notice of a boy good at english or a girl good at maths but it MAY go on in some schools.
Take a look at the top sets for maths..do you notice an even spread ..boys ...and girls?

Yet in english it would (probably) be more girls.
Particulary in the early yrs.
Although an awful lot of schools do not stream for english till much later on. (when the boys have caught up )

[yoyo]

Tinker99 - are there any stats to back up the giftedness of girls in English in the early years? What do you mean by "catch up"? How is it measured - correct spag, answering comprehensions, creative writing? In an earlier post I think you said giftedness was often the ability "to think outside the box" and from what I've read girls are often the ones who are dilligent, neat, etc but often the boys are prepared to take more risks with their answers. Find this gender discussion very interesting.

[tinker99]

Hi yoyo... these are just my observations. Iam sure schools do not wait for boys to "catch up" before streaming English..rather it is something I have noticed tends to happen. Your right it is fascinating though...I don't have a ds but if i did i would probably encourage books even more than i do with my dd. Only joking...I think.

[snailspace]

Message withdrawn

[roisin]

Tinker - can I ask whether you are from a teaching background, or not?

Yoyo, there is evidence that it is often hard for children to move sets, for all sorts of reasons, and is one of the arguments against setting/selection, and in favour of late setting where possible. I would say our GCSE top sets are fairly evenly balanced, but I haven't actually counted. That would not be the case with yr7 and 8, but we don't set yr7 and 8 for English. Another local comp teaches KS3 English in single-sex classes for similar reasons.

[yoyo]

Roisin - so in the schools that teach English in single-sex classes (assuming they are taught this way through to GCSE) do the girls outperform the boys or do they level? If the latter, at what Yr is this commonly seen? I had read something about this having an overall beneficial effect.

[tinker99]

Hi Roisin...Iam logging on here quickly before work..I knew this would get addictive!!
My background is not teaching...although they do a fantastic and very difficult job. It is something I considered when I left university (A long time ago). Instead a worked for many years in HR...for the BBC. Before moving into education after moving from London a couple of years before my dd was born.

[roisin]

Does the school have to contribute financially per head selected for NAGTY? I'm just wondering whether this is the case, and whether this would affect children being put forward by their school.

The school I work at is a comp - there are no grammars here. But the local private school is relatively cheap, and in some ways functions as a selective grammar; we also live in a very deprived area - high unemployment, parental education levels far lower than national average, etc. So in our school there will be very few children in the top 5% nationally: certainly way less than 5%.

But presumably in a "very selective" grammar, you might reasonably expect 20% or more of the children to meet these standards?