playgroup leader chatted to me about dd who's just started ...

[twik]

Dd's literally only just turned 3 and started at playgroup 5 mornings a week about 6 weeks ago. Previously she's been a very clingy child, quite demanding but very sweet and chatty. Really very engaging, the kind of child that adults love and other kids aren't that interested in if that makes sense? Anyway I was thrilled that she settled so nicely, she hasn't cried one single time and has never kicked up a fuss about going in the morning.

Today I asked the oldest member of staff there how she was doing and she said she was a real loner, she wandered round a bit watching other children but didn't want to join in. She also said she's very inflexible (which I know only too well), will only do things the way she wants to. And she never joins in with songs etc. during story time. She loves singing at home normally.

Anyway I felt quite sad to hear all this. What do you think I can do to help her?

[elitemeetupCOD]

did she not have any ideas?

[Enid]

its still quite early days. did they seem worried?

[spidermama]

I've just spent the morning at my ds's pre-school. Some of the kids don't play with others. I don't see it as a problem as long as they're happy. I think there's too much pressure on all of us to be sociable. No-one feels sociable all the time.

I found it very useful to go and help out as it gave me a chance to observe the session. Is this something you might be able to do?

Also, I agree it's early days. A friend of mine moved her 5 year old boy to a new school in September. At his old school he was the life and soul, but she says he's very quiet and reserved at the moment.

Sometimes they need to be in the background, watching things happen, before they feel ready to get fully involved.

Did the playgroup leader not have anything more positive to focus on?

[twik]

cod, no, no ideas.

enid, I thought she did seem a bit worried. But I don't know what about? I don't want to come across too much as the over-anxious mother I am. I've always been aware that dd's 'different' but I was hoping it was within the edges of 'normal'.

Dd's very obsessive and wary of other children. But she's developmentally very bright in all areas except social skills. She's not a 'co-operative' child however. We have to work quite hard with her at home. She can cry and get hysterical quite easily if things aren't as she thinks they should be.

[edam]

Has she been around other children much before, or is this a whole new experience for her? Could be it's just taking her time to get used to the environment.

Do you have any friends with children you could invite round to play?

[twik]

spidermama, I wish she had said something more positive, I kept edging her along to. All she would say is she probably couldn't get involved with the Nativity Play as she wouldn't join in in any group type activities.

[Enid]

if it makes you feel any better, dd1 was a bit like this. We had a terrible time settling her at nursery and in the end we took her out and sent her to a childminder.

I would see how it goes next half term - can you arrange a playdate with another child that goes there during half term?

possibly there is nothing wrong with her developmentally (although the nursery that dd1 went to made us think that there was), she is just a control freak and very self conscious.

dd1 is now at primary and very happy btw.

[twik]

edam, she's an only child but I've taken her to toddler groups a couple of times a week (always a disaster, she hated them which is why I was so glad she seemed to be ok at playgroup) and we have a few friends with kids who we meet up with, but as I said she's never had the slightest interest in playing with other kids. She loves their mums though!

[twik]

anyone have any ideas how I can encourage her to play with other kids a bit more? I don't think it would help if I were to stay with her as when I'm there she'll never leave my side usually.

[twik]

anyone?

[suzywong]

does she really have to go to playgroup?
only just three is very young for 5 mornings a week. Maybe she just isn't ready and you would be doing her a favour by taking her out of what is a stressful situation for her.

Kids have years and years and years at school, surely there is no hurry for her to face her peers and thus feel awkward


Apolgies if playgroup attendance is vital to your paid work

[Twiglett]

ideas

find out names of children that she has even approached and invite them one at a time for a playdate at your house (with parent / carer) .. being on their own together and on your DD's home ground will help her make friends

ask playgroup to try to include her more for a few weeks ..ie sit with leader and do songs

ask playgroup to appoint a child mentor (an older child maybe 4 or so) to 'look after' her

ask if you can go in and help for a few sessions

I personally wouldn't worry as I think going from only child who goes to a few groups with mummy to going to playgroup every day on her own is a huge leap and it will just take time for her to find her feet

HTH

[twik]

Those are all great ideas Twiglett, thanks, I'll have a chat with the play leader and suggest some of them to her. In actual fact we do already meet up quite regularly with two of the little boys who go there, we knew them beforehand. Dd has mentioned a little girl a few times and keeps saying 'I've made a little friend' but I get the feeling she's saying it to 'please' us, I've probably inadvertently passed some anxiety onto her, as the teachers say she hasn't played with this girl and they totally ignore each other from what I can see. BUT I do think that little girl seems rather like dd so maybe she's identifying herself with her? I think they might play together given the chance but the mother's very hard to approach.

Suzy, I thought long and hard about sending dd to playgroup. She's been with me at home since birth and is an only child who's likely to stay that way as it's highly unlikely we'd have any more. She's a lovely bright, chatty girl and I'm happy to do all kinds of 'educational' things with her from cooking and cleaning to reading and painting. BUT what I can't give her are any real social skills as we have no family nearby and apart from dp and I she has nobody different in her life on a regular basis. I thought playgroup which is only 2.5 hours a morning would give her a different experience, especially as she's been awful at handling situations with other children in since she was tiny. And it has helped, there's real evidence that she's nowhere near as 'terrified' when another child approaches her. Plus I don't think she is spending her time there being anxious. She's never made a fuss about going and she seems happy and excited when I collect her. I really just wondered if there was a way I could help her to get more 'involved' with the group activities or if I should be worried about her lack of cooperation in them.

[fullmoonfiend]

Twik, there are some good ideas here - esp Twiglett's playdate one.In my experience, that has worked wonders to help them 'bond' with other kids outside all the structure/rules of playschool. It may be that she grows into the playschool thing when she gets more used to it - she is still v young, and as someone who has been a volunteer helper at preschool for many years, it seems quite common for children that age to not quite get the idea of playing with other children. However, and this isn't being negative, it may be that she will never enjoy group activities. My son is very sociable and popular now, but from the age of 2, HATED song time, circle time, and all organised group activities. He still does - will not do scouts, choir, football training etc but thrives on more flaxible, less structured social environments, like drama classes, swimming etc. Another thread on MN recently pointed out that sometimes 'brighter' children are slower to develop on the social side, as all their energies are going into being a bright bunny, IYKWIM? Do you think this might be the case with your dd? If she's not unhappy, I'd try not to worry too much now and review the situation in a couple of months' time. Good luck.

[twik]

Thanks fullmooonfiend. What you say makes sense. To be honest dp and I are both very shy and not at all good in group situations though I'm better than he is! So she may well have picked up vibes / genes from us. And I don't mind, as you say, so long as she's happy. She really seems to be, she virtually pushes me out the door when we arrive, with a gentle press on my knees and blowing kisses to me etc. She's a very verbal, very imaginative child and spends a lot of time in her own head so I almost think she's happy to 'get rid of me' and wander round the playgroup in her own mind without even me interrupting her! I sometimes wonder about her total introversion. BUT she is the youngest child there by quite a few months and by a year in a lot of cases.

[Octobernow]

She sounds like my dd1 at the same age, twik. She didn't speak in anything above a whisper when she started nursery and moved her chair to sit away from the rest of the group at mealtimes. She always hung back and let others go before her. She was bright and stroppy at home, too. I think the nursery should work a bit harder with your dd to include her, but I think she'll probably settle in and make a few friends on the quiet. My dd was a shy starter at school, too but you wouldn't know it now!

[freakyzebra]

If she were my DD, twik, I would stay with her some sessions and get her to play with me and some of the other children. I'd ask her for the other children's names -- and if she didn't know, we'd go talk to (& play with) that child together.

I do have a DD who's very shy & doesn't mix easily, and that all is pretty much what I have done with her; has def. helped.

[SenoraPostrophe]

dd is the same. she does join in with songs (eventually), but plays on her own and basically just gets on with what she wants to do. The staff at nursery always said she was "very independent". She does join in sometimes - she is starting to do so at her new school only now after 4 weeks (she's 3 and a half, and has been going to nursery since 15 months)

So I don't think it's a problem. I don't think you should stay with her - dd is always even less participative when I'm there. Just keep doing what you're doing really.

[Orinoco]

Message withdrawn

[twik]

Octobernow, that sounds so like my dd, moving her chair away from the table! Embarrassing isn't it?

freakyzebra, if I thought my staying with her would help I'd do it but when I did stay with her on and off during her first week it was hopeless she just sat glued to my side and turned her head away whenever I chatted to another child / encouraged her to play. She even sat on my foot on the floor while I stood by the door for the most of one morning! She did much better from the moment I properly left her. She moved out into the room and sat for fruit and went for stories etc.

Senora, dd's always been called 'very independent' too, but I think 'very self-contained' is more appropriate. I don't know if you agree? I don't think she is independent because I think it's shyness and insecurity around other children that in part lead her to rely mostly on herself.

The really really sad thing about the singing sessions in particular is that dd LOVES to sing. Today she bowled me over by singing literally word-perfectly the whole of 'hush little baby' which she's never sung out loud before. I thought that was amazing for someone who's just turned 3 a week ago and has only listened to me sing it. She can remember words and tunes so well it's a real skill of hers. It's such a shame she can't show it off to her teachers and friends.

[freakyzebra]

but maybe she'll never be a show-off, twik, don't expect her to, let her be herself.

[twik]

Gosh, no, I'd never expect or want her to be a show-off, I can't imagine it. Ok, I guess what I meant is I wish she could share her love of singing and other people pick up on that. IYSWIM?

[Wallace]

Dd was four in June, and has been going to nursery for over a year now, and really loves it. She is very quiet - doesn't actually talk at all to the teachers or the other kids. She doesn't play with the other children, or join in with songs, gym, etc.

She has one of the other little girls round to play (have known eachother since they were babies) and she chats away to her at home. However she doesn't talk to her at nursery.

Even though my dd has taken "being shy" to such an extreme, the teachers are not particulary concerned (she is going to be seen by a paediatrician, but I think that is more to cover their backs, rather than because they think it is a problem), and they expect her to grow out of it. She is slowly becoming more confident and little step by little step is making progress.

I know exactly what you mean about wanting others to see what your dd is really like, singing etc. I think that your dd will take her own time to feel completely comfortable in a new setting.

[twik]

Wallace your dd is more shy than mine. You know she sounds so like me as a child. I didn't go to any kind of school or nursery until I was 5 and for the first two years didn't speak to a soul, neither teacher nor child. I was taken to see a variety of different psychologists etc. but some time around age 7 I got better. But I always tended to stick o just one main friend and wasn't a good participant in class. I think you're doing your dd a big favour by getting her used to school-type settings early, it was really hard to face full time school after no preparation when I was a little girl.

[Wallace]

Thanks, it is nice to hear stories from people who have been like my dd, but have grown out of it. It gives me hope that she is going to het there eventually