summer born children

[Cha]

Have just heard a Woman's Hour piece on summer born babies and how well, or rather, how poorly they tend to do at school. I gave birth to my ds just 6 days ago and he arrived 31 Aug at 8 pm. I think that this means he will be the very youngest in his year at school for his whole academic life. The radio programme said that summer born boys in particular have all sorts of problems at school as they are often a lot more immature than their peers and find it hard to concentrate, keep up etc. I feel bereft. I knew this would be a problem and couldn't believe it when I went into labour a day early (he was due on 1st Sept).

I would very much like to know if there is anything we can do - like keep him back a year at school, lie on his forms about his age (he misses the crucial cut off date by 4 hours!) - or is there nothing we can do but watch him struggle for the rest of his school life? Please help - anyone out there know how the system works?

[neen99]

My sister was born on the 29th of August, and my mum had a choice whether to keep her back a year or not. As it was, she was having speech problems, and starting school eradicated this in a matter of weeks as it 'brought her on'.
Albeit this was a few years ago.
My ds2 was born 9 days ago (on the 28th) and I have the same concerns.

[princesspeahead]

hi cha - I was due on 31 august so looked into this! almost every school will allow you to keep him back a year if you think, once he is 4, that he really would benefit from that. it isn't a completely set in stone cut off date! and I think that often it is more difficult for boys than girls in this situation, since they are generally quite behind girls in development anyway, and if they are the smallest in the class they are unlikely to make the football team etc! So I wouldn't worry too much about it - see how he goes and then make a decision nearer the time. you never know, he may be a fast developer, tall and incredibly bright and you feel that being the youngest in the year is something he can cope perfectly well with!

[scottiebabe]

Sorry don't really have answer i have a summer babe ds was born in mid june and has not had any of the above mentioned probs - he a very happy well adjusted academic 18 yr old - i think if you worry about this then your ds will pick up on it - i would not worry too much - sorry thats not much help but at the end of the day all kids are different - my two like chalk and cheese

[LIZS]

Cha,

I understand the dilemma as dd is also a late August baby. However I am increasingly coming across people whose kids have September birthdays who are wanting to do the opposite and accelerate them a year, even as early as 2 or 3 ! Try not to prejudge your ds. Many good schools exist which will flex classes particularly in the earlier years. Our nephew is a July bday who has just turned 4 but will only go into Reception next Easter at the earliest. You are not legally required to send your child to school at all until after they have turned 5.

Have to say I am less worried about dd now than I had initially been, as she has an older brother with whom she is constantly trying to keep pace. The best you can do is to act upon where he is developmentally at the time and research your options,which will probably also vary by LEA, but the system could change in 5 years so try to focus on the job in hand. Please don't let your concerns about him educationally colour the time you are spending with him now.

hth

[scottiebabe]

have just read what i posted - its come out wrong not meant to sound as it did ! sorry

[Cha]

Oh thank you, thank you. I am in tears of gratitude now. Must be the hormones. So I can keep him back a year? What a relief. And if he is a fine, mature, bright boy, towering over his peers then I will think again. Until then, I will STOP WORRYING. I love mumsnet xxx

[Claireandrich]

Don't worry too much about starting as a younger one in the group. My brother and sister, and my husband and his brother were all summer babies and they have all done very well for themselves despite going to school and being one of the youngest.

My husband is a solicotr; his brother a charted surveyor; my brother got a 1st in his degree and is now an internaltional engineer; my sister is currently training to be a lawyer after doing really well in her law degree and getting 3 As and 2 Bs at A-level.

Being the youngest in a class certainly haven't done them any good!

By the way, my mum had to fight to get my sister into school early as she was really ready to go in the September even though she was just 4. With the HV help she did get in and we never looked back.

[Claireandrich]

Don't worry too much about starting as a younger one in the group. My brother and sister, and my husband and his brother were all summer babies and they have all done very well for themselves despite going to school and being one of the youngest.

My husband is a solicotr; his brother a charted surveyor; my brother got a 1st in his degree and is now an internaltional engineer; my sister is currently training to be a lawyer after doing really well in her law degree and getting 3 As and 2 Bs at A-level.

Being the youngest in a class certainly haven't done them any good!

By the way, my mum had to fight to get my sister into school early as she was really ready to go in the September even though she was just 4. With the HV help she did get in and we never looked back.

[Claireandrich]

I obviously meant 'hasn't done them any harm'!!!

[kmg1]

Another vote to the "don't worry" camp. DS1 is July birthday, second youngest in his class, (yr 2 now - he's just 6), and he's top of the class for most subjects. We are actually relieved that he is summer-born, because despite being very bright, he is still challenged and stimulated by the curriculum for his class. If he were a September birthday (and consequently in the school year below) he would have been bored this year, I think. Here primary schools are reluctant to promote children up a year (rightly, I think), but are very willing to allow children to re-sit a year if it seems appropriate.

DS2 is also a summer birthday, and though he seems very young to be starting school next week, I know the teachers are very aware which children are the youngest ones ... who will struggle even to stay awake in the afternoons!

[judetheobscure]

I worry about my 2 September babes for the same reason as kmg - the oldest one, turns 4 in a couple of weeks time and is emotionally ready to start school now - he's very lively and quite mature for his age (has two older siblings) and I do worry that he'll get bored this year at pre-school and then at school as well. On the other hand he may love being the oldest etc. as he's definitely not top of the heap at home.

Ds1 on the other hand was a late June baby and although shy has really flourished at school; his age has not been an issue at all.

[runragged]

Perhaps I'm totally selfish but I tried really hard to concieve so that my baby was born before 1st September. My thinking was that as his older sister was 18 months older than him they would only be a year apart in school which would ultimately make them "closer". Also it meant that I didn't have to take another year off work!
At the end of the day although 6 months seems like a lot when they are babies by the time they are 3 you can't tell them apart. My dd and her friend have 4 months between them, they are both three and they are both the same developementally, you honestly wouldn't be able to say which is older, also the size thing is irrelevant dds youngest friend is a good 4 inches taller than her and she is "average"

[tigermoth]

My youngest son's a late August baby, too. He will be starting school in January and I do have some concerns about him being the youngest in his class and in the school.

However, becase he is young I have lower expectations. I don't expect he will be picking up his three 'R's as easily as some of his peers. I have vowed to myself that I won't worry if he is behind the class average in year 1. From what I've gathered from speaking to teachers, things even out age wise by year 2 or 3 anyway. The highest achieving boy in my 9 year old's class is also one of the youngest. My 9 year old also has a slightly late birthday - end of April - yet academically he's fine and always has been.

[janh]

The Woman's Hour piece - what I heard of it (missed a bit) - was more concerned about behavioural issues than academic.

One suggestion was that registers should be read in birthdate order, to remind the teachers daily which are the children who are more likely to run around shouting (obviously this would be infants rather than A level classes!), and to make it less likely that these less mature children would start being labelled as having behavioural problems rather than merely acting their age.

The programme also suggested that the difference continues right through school. Must say this has been our experience - DS1 is a mid-July birthday and he is still exhibiting immature behaviour - Y11 now, he says he is going to be different this year but I'll believe it when it happens! (He had no problems academically at primary school but has gradually done less and less well at secondary - but that's partly laziness and partly a stroppy personality.)

[Bobsmum]

Go to school in Scotland

[kmg1]

I think we should give credit to teachers, IME they are very aware of the age of children, especially in the first couple of years where there is a marked difference. Last year I spent one afternoon a week in a Year 1 class, towards the middle of June I asked the teacher which were the youngest children, which were not yet 6. She new exactly and immediately which children had just had their birthday, and which were the July/August birthdays to come.

[motherinferior]

And Cha - congratulations on the baby! How did it all go?

[Cha]

Thanks everyone. Motherinferior - all went well, thanks. Had him at home in a birthing pool, although the first stage until 'established labour' (3cm dilated) was about a day and a half (hence a sleepless night), once things got underway, it was about 5 hours. However, I am never, ever doing it again. It is INHUMANE how much it hurts. I thought I was going to die with the pain. Can't bear to think about it! He's waking up - must go! He's lovely - at least it was worth it......

[janh]

kmg1, I bet if you asked most Y1/Y2 teachers to rank their class by age right now they couldn't.

[aloha]

My stepdaughter is a late august baby who is now 12, and I think, still noticeably younger than many of her classmates, some of whom are very nearly 13. And she has struggled academically at times. I was glad my ds was born in Sept as I really didn't want to send him to school at 4. However, I am sure children differ hugely in their readiness at four or five. I am also summer born (July) and always hated school, though I didn't struggle academically. Just loathed all forms of education from primary to university! I will really have to try not to pass that attitude on to ds.

[janh]

There is another possible factor to the difference in performance (all round) between the autumn-born and summer-born - they are treated differently at school. When the older ones start they are generally far more able, are given more complicated things to do and, often, given responsibilities long before the younger ones, of whom much less is expected, certainly to begin with.

There was once an experiment (can't remember details) in which teachers were told that certain children in their class, picked at random, were gifted. The teachers subsequently behaved differently with these children and, by the end of the experiment, all of them were achieving way beyond expectations.

Bobsmum, how does the Scottish system differ? Is the "birthday" year January-December? Are the November/December children considered to be handicapped by the process?

[Bobsmum]

In Scotland, the age cut off is completely different.
There aren't two intakes for the first year of primary, just one.

The age cut off is 29th Feb so March babies are the eldest and Feb babies are the youngest.

School years still start in September though. So, for example, I'm a May baby so when I started Primary 1 I was 5, however there were a lot of four year olds in my class (the "rising 5s" in England I suppose).
They all turned 5 during their first year at school. I was 18 when I left school and went to uni, but my younger classmates were 17.

As far as I can remember, the March/ April/ May birthdays were the brightest kids but that's a real generalisation for just my year at school.

In Scotland, September babies are pretty much in the middle of the age group.

Any other Scottish mums want to add their experience - my ds is one tomorrow so I'm hardly in a position to comment on his academic prowess (yet!)

[janh]

Thanks, bobsmum - very interesting - seems to mean though that 3 years out of 4 the March 1st babies should have to wait a year!

It does sound like a better system as the very youngest are at least 4½ when they start, even though there is still the 12 month difference within the year.

[toot]

Cha, Im really really sorry if my post brings you down a litle but there is a very important negative about keeping your little one back a year. When your son does go to school hell have to join the cohort he would have origonally been class mates with. This means hell enter school in Y1 not reception. <br /> <br /> I do understand your worry.I have a son who was 7 weeks premature. I was always getting upset because some report would come out saying low birthweight = crap educational potential or prematurity was a sure fire route to a "MC job". Fact is, all these reports only show general trends. A good loving family who read to (and with) their children can work wonders to make up a developmental gap - says me (but Im sure there is a report out there somwhere to back me up).

[CAM]

Cha, the youngest boy in my dd's class is also the brightest/highest achieving boy in the class. My brother and myself were both June babies and always top/second top in our classes. Other factors are more important than a few months difference in age. Anyway your babe is 6 days old so enjoy him as he is now! It's too soon to think about school!