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feedback extortion.

(421 Posts)
sixlostmonkeys Wed 16-Jan-13 19:44:10

I reported a buyer for feedback extortion.

I've received this back from ebay CS

>>>>"I gathered from your email that the buyer has threatened to leave negative feedback on your account if you will not send them money.

We've looked into the situation again and can see that this isn't a case of feedback extortion"<<<<<

The policy on feedback extortion is - " Buyers are not allowed to threaten sellers with negative Feedback, neutral Feedback or low Detailed Seller Ratings in order to obtain goods or services not included in the original listing."

So, could anyone help me understand this? Does it mean that if the buyer was demanding hamsters or penguins then it would be feedback extortion, but demanding money is fine, and therefor NOT extortion?

coffeewhitenosugar Wed 16-Jan-13 20:28:09

shock I've not heard of feedback extortion before! Are they saying they aren't happy with the item they bought and want their money back? I once bought something on ebay and couldn't arrange with the seller to collect it, it was all very odd so complained anad got my money back plus sold some curtains which the buyer said they didn't receive so I was made to credit them and claim the money back from the Post Office. Surely they can't just ask for money - that would defnitely be extortion and I would take that up with ebay customer services.

LineRunner Wed 16-Jan-13 20:33:53

eBay cs are shit, that's the problem.

They don't know anything. I had a clear case of feedback extortion last year - a buyer sent vile messages wanting money and to keep the item or she would leave me negative feedback - and eBay cs just said 'that's her experience of the transaction'.

I realised then that eBay was a very poorly managed company, with a fair bit of risk for sellers attached. Luckily there were enough honest buyers to make it worthwhile to sell privately last year; but eBay cs are dreadful.

sixlostmonkeys Wed 16-Jan-13 21:06:47

My buyer claimed the item was damaged in the post. I told her to return it for a full refund. She eventually did and I gave her a full refund. The money she is demanding is ...well.just money. Simple as that really. She just wants me to send her some money.
Oh, and she's taking me to court!
She has done this before to another seller, including taking them to court.

LineRunner Wed 16-Jan-13 23:37:45

Well, for what it's worth, do report her to eBay.

Obviously she won't take you to court. If she starts bothering you I think you can block her from being able to message you. And/or you could tell the police.

Sadly there are real fruitloops and scammers using eBay.

sixlostmonkeys Thu 17-Jan-13 11:06:47

I have reported her to ebay - obviously nothing has happened.

It seems she actually is taking me to court. She issued a formal intention to issue summons, then confirmed she had submitted the papers. I just need to wait for the papers to arrive now.

IF it does get to court then it should be a straightforward case in my favour. BUT, then I thought that her demanding money was a straightforward case of extortion! Everything depends on the mood of the ebay CS team or Judge I guess.

She is indeed a fruitloop! She has been using a made up person with a separate email address to harass me directly to my email (not ebay) I am currently trying to find out how the law stands on this (so if you know anything about this kind of stuff I'd really appreciate some pointers)

Havingkitties Thu 17-Jan-13 18:14:00

Is she trying to take you to small claims court? If so you can always counter claim, that should send her even loopier!
Just to get this straight, she wants extra money on top of the refund?

You're going to have to keep us updated. I'm so intrigued now!

DeepPurple Thu 17-Jan-13 18:17:53

Her sending you emails is harassment. I really doubt she's taking you to court. I would just refuse to engage with her but keep copies of any messages she sends you. If you receive a summons then go along with all the copies of the messages you have sent each other.
If she continues to harass you via email then contact the police.

fuzzpig Thu 17-Jan-13 18:20:40

Bloody hell.

How do you know she's done it to someone else before?

Ebayaholic Thu 17-Jan-13 18:21:46

I had someone from overseas send me an email bomb and ebay did nothing at all. It caused me quite a lot of stress and inconvenience and even though it was a year ago, it still impacts on my life a little. They really don't care.

diamondee Thu 17-Jan-13 18:35:40

What's an email bomb?

fergoose Thu 17-Jan-13 18:37:15

I think you should go to the community boards and start a thread using a posting id. What exactly is she taking you to court for? - sounds bonkers.

Ebayaholic Thu 17-Jan-13 19:06:59

Diamondee it's where someone savvy puts your personal details somewhere which means you get hundreds of thousands of emails, effectively rendering your email addresses unusable. In my case I think the seller put my name on some sort of sex site based on the nature of the emails I was receiving. Even now I am still getting Facebook friend requests from dubious people daily. (I am double barrelled and therefore very easy to track down- am actually unique in the world!)

LineRunner Thu 17-Jan-13 21:28:26

She issued a formal intention to issue summons

How, OP? Did she send you another email?

sixlostmonkeys Thu 17-Jan-13 23:10:04

she sent the intention to issue summons as PDF file attached to an email.

This is all very complicated but I'll try and explain.

I received this email (and a lot of others) from (lets call him) John Smith. John Smith has his own email address. He signed the letter/email "John Smith on behalf of Ms Fruitloop. John Smith put his address on the top of the letter.

14 days later (though there were many emails during that 14 days) John Smith confirmed he had submitted the claim to the court.

John Smith claims in his emails to me that he is a friend of Ms Fruitloop.

Now, here's the thing. John Smith isn't a real person. Ms Fruitloop has made him up.

Ms Fruitloop is very secretive. She only gives her name as Ms Fruitloop; never Ms Edith Fruitloop. She uses a P O Box instead of her address.

Ms Fruitloop actually lives at the address that John Smith put on top of his letter.

This is the bit I need to find an answer to. If/when I receive the court papers, obviously Ms Fruitloop will have had to put her real name on them. I'm curious about the importance of the details given on the "letter of intention". I will probably phone the court and ask when I get the papers.
I have already phoned the court over this (I won't go into details because it's too confusing already) and the woman I spoke to was really helpful and lovely. The best thing was though she laughed. She really laughed and then apologised for laughing grin This made me feel so much better. Honestly, this is the craziest thing I have ever encountered.

I'll keep you informed of updates. If I relate the entire saga though i warn you it will have to be in short bursts - it's so darn confusing to explain.

LineRunner Thu 17-Jan-13 23:13:40

Mad. Just mad.

I'd have gone to the police and reported her for harrassment tbh.

MonthlyWishesCameAndWent Thu 17-Jan-13 23:15:13

What did you sell to get taken to court, or threatened with it? Was it a rolls Royce?

YouOldSlag Thu 17-Jan-13 23:16:10

I think the court letter was a fake. She is trying to intimidate you. Report your to the police for intimidation, extortion and harassment and tell her you have done so.

That ought to do it.

Also write to eBay and explain the situation again. Describe it as harassment, rather than feedback extortion. As far as you're concerned, you did your bit when you issued the full refund. No further contact necessary.

MonthlyWishesCameAndWent Thu 17-Jan-13 23:16:18

All very crazy sounding. Maybe she makes her living threatening court and extorting money and hopefully is just trying it on

YouOldSlag Thu 17-Jan-13 23:16:31

Sorry, report HER to the police, not your.

sixlostmonkeys Thu 17-Jan-13 23:29:20

I've reported her to ebay over it all. they aren't interested.

As for going to the police - well, as it stands it's just harassment, intimidation, trying to obtain money by (something) - tbh honest it's all stuff I can deal with - even the court - although it's going to take up time, there really isn't a case (but who knows) I just can't bring myself to go to the police and tell them that a 76 year old woman is bullying me!!! How do I know she's 76? I know a lot about her now - if you dig deep enough you find a lot of dirt smile

I am intrigued though - she is definitely hiding 'something' and has been for a long time. John Smith didn't just appear for the purpose of intimidating me. So why does she have him? and how long has she had him?

LeaveIt Thu 17-Jan-13 23:41:33

Blimey. You could have rights to a tv programme here wink good luck with the outcome though.

LineRunner Thu 17-Jan-13 23:46:31

That would be a good Panorama documentary - 'When Ebay Turns Shit'.

Redbindy Thu 17-Jan-13 23:48:43

The post office is obliged to tell you the name and address of post office box holders.

YouOldSlag Fri 18-Jan-13 13:11:48

No, you should go to the police. Sometimes that's enough to scare the perpetrator and makes them realise you are not to be bullied. Ring your local police station, you can them give them a statement in your own home, and they do the rest. It doesn't have to end up in a complicated court case, and it might stop her doing it someone else.

Bullies are bullies because nobody stops them.

fergoose Fri 18-Jan-13 14:44:22

I don't understand what case they are bringing, they want extra money from you - for what? Inconvenience? I wonder if the court papers are in the made up name? Sounds like your buyer needs a doctor not a court case. Is very bizarre anyway. I would call the police too and have a chinwag. Worth a try isn't it?

sixlostmonkeys Sat 19-Jan-13 13:42:27

Once this all over, either the end of the court case or the discovery she hasn't even submitted the papers, then I'll explain in more detail what it's all about.

At the moment I just want to be careful what I write here in case it's googleable (made up word) grin

I think she has finally stopped harassing me. She has gone to great lengths to try and cover her tracks - it's very funny.
I ignored her when she began sending the crazy emails. She must have taken my silence as me being scared. After a month I replied. Once I sent a couple of calm emails detailing all her mistakes, errors, law breaking activities she dug herself a deeper hole and then more or less started screaming "shut up! shut up! shut up!

The way I'm thinking now is; if I receive the papers, then I'll use all I have to make a case against her. I admit to being extremely curious. Like I said above, there are indicators that she is hiding (from) something, or has been up to no good for a long time.

I'll come back here and share her 'finer moments' when it's all over (if anyone is interested that it. grin

lljkk Sat 19-Jan-13 14:30:50

.

ginmakesitallok Sat 19-Jan-13 14:35:51

Buy what is she taking you to court for?? confused

TheFallenNinja Sat 19-Jan-13 14:37:01

How much did she want?

PurpleFrog Sat 19-Jan-13 15:45:14

It all sounds very intriguing...

A seller threatened to take me to court a few years ago... but I didn't find out for a few months. I had purchased a product, used it and washed it and was very suspicious about its performance. I looked at the genuine version in some shops and decided the product I had been sent was a cheaper copy. I e-mailed the seller and when he didn't reply within 10 days I left negative feedback. [I now know that I should have opened a "not as described" case.] I bought a proper version elsewhere and chalked it up to experience.

A couple of months later I was contacted via eBay by another buyer saying she had had the same problems as me and asking if the seller taken me to court as he had threatened! shock It turned out he had replied to my feedback on eBay (but hadn't contacted me directly) saying he was going to sue me as I had said that the product wasn't genuine. Of course, I never heard anything more from him.

It has meant that I am now very careful to check and use items thoroughly before leaving feedback.

LineRunner Sat 19-Jan-13 17:19:30

Well, I'm definitely intrigued.

DoodlesNoodles Sat 19-Jan-13 23:37:44

This is why I don't use EBay. It is a shame that there are so many crazies about.

YouOldSlag Sun 20-Jan-13 10:28:41

Doodles- the benefits of ebay far outweight the small risk of landing a lunatic!

It's been a huge help to me during periods of being skint. It's also enabled me to buy perfume I couldn't normally affors.

Don't knock it til you tried it! It's been a lifeline sometimes and no crazies after 500 transactions.

YouOldSlag Sun 20-Jan-13 10:29:10

sorry about typos, distracted by DH

SavoyCabbage Sun 20-Jan-13 10:38:18

I agree that most people are not nutters. I have come across some lovely people in my ebaying years.

I think I would go to,the police so you can get an incident number so you can give that to eBay and ask them to reassess your case.

YouOldSlag Sun 20-Jan-13 10:51:25

Good advice Savoy. get an incident number and get ebay to block her for harrassment. Don't let ebay fob you off. Go higher, go to Head Office, whatever it takes. She will do this to somebody else who is not as strong as you and they may give in to her.

DoodlesNoodles Sun 20-Jan-13 11:48:42

Youoldslag. That is good to hear. I know that despite the naysayers like me it does provide a great service. Otherwise it wouldnt be so popular would it. I am a firm believer that most people are honest. The problem with eBay is that you generally only hear about the bad transactions.
My only direct experience was when a friend sold a table for me and the winning buyer messed us about terribly. Having consulted Furgoose I sold it too the second bidder so all good in the end. It was nice when the guy collected it. He was delighted with the table and I was delighted with the cash. The charity that I normally donate things too would have sold it for a third of the cost.

I am still thinking that sixlostmonkeys pram will still turn up smile

ChristianGreyIsAJackass Sun 20-Jan-13 12:03:46

in no way marking my place to hear about the crazy grin

DeafLeopard Sun 20-Jan-13 12:12:18

shock there are some crazy people on ebay

sixlostmonkeys Wed 30-Jan-13 10:05:49

update -

I phoned the courts yesterday and they told me she has submitted a claim.
The papers are with the solicitor and it could be a month before I receive them.

This is what annoys me - this is going to take months. Months of my time.

I'll try and explain briefly what this is about (I said I would) smile

I sold an item for £10. Postage was £5.30. She told me it was damaged in the post. I told her to return it for a full refund plus return postage (private seller so not actually obliged to pay for the return postage but offered it as a gesture of goodwill - hoping to put an end to this swiftly)
She told me she wanted the refund plus £8 before she returned it. I replied telling her to return it first then I would give full refund plus actual postage (£5.30)
She then told me it would cost £15 to return and became abusive. I reported her to ebay (for being abusive) and then ignored her. I had already told her 4 times to return for a full refund + return postage (goodwill gesture)
She continued to harass me, also using 'John Smith' to harass me.
Eventually she told me she had spoke to ebay and they told her to return it for a refund. (doh!)
She returned it. In a BIG box. A BIG box full of paper and cardboard which increased the weight massively.
I issued a full refund.
She told me she wanted £15.

Funnily enough I didn't feel any goodwill by this point and knew that even if I sent £5.30 she would still be harassing me for the extra. So I ignored her - for a month.

After a month I eventually replied. I calmly explained the facts of the matter. I explained that she wasn't actually entitled to the return postage anyway, but I had offered a goodwill gesture of the actual postage. I explained that it was her choice to post the contents of her recycle bin and I am not prepared to pay for that.

Many crazy emails followed (I may share later)

So now I'm going to court for £15!

when the court papers arrive, there is a space to put details in if you dispute the claim. Simply fill it in with everything you've put in your post above. Attach copies of the listing, all the emails, the pdf court notice etc etc. This will then be sent back to her and she can rant and rave and resubmit with reasons why you SHOULD pay, but all this can take months.

this will be costing her over £30 to issue the claim, she is obviously a nutter. NO-ONE with even half a brain spends money UP FRONT to dispute £15. You would only have to pay the extra £30 if you admit fault.

When you do not pay, her options then are to let it go, or to actually take you to a court date, which has to be at the nearest court to you, and thus hopefully inconvenient to her. I am pretty sure that the costs of this court visit have to be paid by her, and added on to any winnings that she may get from you.

I have been to one such sitting of a judge at a small claims thingy. I accompanied company's in house solicitor. The judges see everything under the sun and quickly work out when one person is being unreasonable and bullying. Honeslty I don't think you have anything to worry about. She will end up with all the costs etc.

However, if you pay even one penny, this throws the whole thing out.If it were me I'd now paypal her, or send a cheque recorded delivery, for the £5.30. That way to get the rest she has to start again with the whole court costs and papers and everything, and you have proved indisputably what a reasonable person you are.

I have 800 ebay transactions and only ever had one or two 'difficult' ones and one that I reported to ebay for FB extortion and they came down firmly on my side and gave the seller a warning. So its not totally full of nutters!

fergoose Wed 30-Jan-13 12:31:43

wow - just bloody wow. Fruitloop doesn't even come close does it?

sarahtigh Wed 30-Jan-13 16:08:05

this is why in my conditions I say that when an item is returned it must be by the same method it was sent and return costs will be met upto a maximum of what it cost to send ( i would pay return cost if item damaged or misdescribed but not for a change of mind wrong size return)

so if I sent it second class for 2.20 I will pay you 2.20 to return not 3.65 to send back 1st class signed for if you want to send it like that it is up to you but I will only pay you 2,20

tutu100 Wed 30-Jan-13 18:36:19

Was the item actually damaged when you got it back?

lljkk Thu 31-Jan-13 14:24:33

I thought it cost £60 or so to open a small claims case. Then there are extra fees you have to pay before it proceeds before a judge. Those are added to damages in case of successful win, but it's easy enough to lose a case.

All for £5.30 or £15...shock

lljkk Thu 31-Jan-13 14:24:53

ps: I want to see the crazy emails.

sixlostmonkeys Fri 01-Feb-13 09:20:02

It was damaged yes. It is my opinion that it wasn't damaged in the post though but by her. there are chip marks to it as though she was trying to see what was under the paint (silver or bronze?) It was neither (which obviously disappointed her) and it cracked.

I have the court papers now. Boy oh boy are they amazing!!!!! She is a complete nutcase.

I've had to go to the police with all this as the threats, harassment and probably fraud are just too massive

She has so far paid £80 to the court. She will have to make another payment should she want the case to be given a hearing. Of course she will also have travelling costs. She has also paid an accountant to provide her with a C/O address because apparently I (that's ME!!!) am a danger to her and she fears for her safety. lala

oh, and she has stated that should I defend the case she will take me to court for other things (no idea what these other things are, but hey oh)

PostBellumBugsy Fri 01-Feb-13 09:37:39

Blardy hell sixlostmonkeys!!!!!! What a tale. I'm glad you've gone to the police though. I think some people get off on this kind of tussle & it sounds like Ms Fruitloop is one of them. I'm really disappointed to hear how rubbish ebay have been. You should keep them in the loop though and tell them you are being take to court about this.

Please keep us updated & when it is all done, you should seriously think about going to the press with it all.

sixlostmonkeys Fri 01-Feb-13 09:56:11

oh I dare say when all this is over I could write a book on it never mind the press!!

the saga just continues to get more and more bizarre. Unfortunately i can not share the gems on here until it's over - but I may keep posting back here if only to ask some of you to say to me "there there" and remind me what the real world is about! : I have so much paperwork to deal with that I am becoming immersed in lala land.

LineRunner Fri 01-Feb-13 09:59:42

Wow. You should blog this.

Might help eBay buck up their ideas a bit as well.

McNo Fri 01-Feb-13 10:09:48

I will be watching this thread with interest. That lady sounds one of a kind nutty grin

I have just read through the whole saga opem-mouthed.

six, this is super weird stuff.

I have so many questions, but understand the need for caution.
Just one I'm desperate to know - has she got a Big Journey to get to your local court? I really hope so. wink

sixlostmonkeys Fri 01-Feb-13 10:16:36

she lives about 80 miles away.

oh, and between you me (sshhhhh) Like I have said, she still has more money to pay - and I actually think that she will be paying for a solicitor to attend on her behalf (because I'm dangerous) - so we can easily say she will be paying a few hundred. The thing is, for some reason she has reached the conclusion (and has stated such on the court papers) that I earn a large salary. The truth is (remember...ssshhhhh) my income is actually so low that I would not be expected to pay anything even if she by some freakish chance was to win the case.

Well, I never laugh out loud.

But I friffing did them.

That's ace!

Not your financial situation obviously, but the potential outcome.

I do feel like I should put her on my blocked buyers list though.

[innocentface]

sixlostmonkeys Sat 02-Feb-13 11:07:30

Right!! This has just got serious.

I am attempting to compile my defense to her claims (all 39 pages of them!!)

# 5 - she accuses me of thanking her - for sending the 'photo's'

I object STRONGLY to such an accusation! I most certainly DID NOT insert a rogue apostrophe! ...and I have the original email to prove it.
Surely the police will have a special dept. to help me deal with such an accusation?

grin grin
a sense of humour will help me get through this - won't it????

PS - I am actually going to defend this 'particular of claim' grin

fergoose Sat 02-Feb-13 11:59:06

39 pages - for £15!!

I would not be surprised if this person is a serial offender for many claims such as this - not that that helps, but you know.

Any update OP?

LaVitaBellissima Mon 11-Mar-13 11:11:40

Wow, this thread is hilarious!

Iwantmybed Mon 11-Mar-13 13:00:05

Wow OP. She is a special kind of crazy. I like you would enjoy the fight against her.Im looking forward to your ceremonial victory against this loon.

sixlostmonkeys Tue 12-Mar-13 16:07:09

There's no exciting update to report just yet.

I submitted my defense. I defended each and every 'particular'. (there were a lot of them!) I even defended the claim that I used a rogue apostrophe grin and enclosed a print-out of the '(non-)offending' original email. smile
I enclosed print-outs of ebay pages where it states that the buyer is responsible for the return postage etc.
I summarised by saying that she could have a. accepted my goodwill gesture of the actual return postage cost, or b. requested a no fault refund from ebay and kept the item but instead she chose to c. send me the contents of her refuse bin and then demand I send her £15 for it.

During the email exchanges prior to her filing a court claim, I had told her that "due to the nature of my disability my costs would be higher than normal".
She commented on this within the court papers, accusing me of using my 'disability' as nothing but a ploy for sympathy.
I responded to this. Oh boy did I respond! I stated that - any reasonable person reading my words in context would realise that I was merely pointing out that travel costs would be higher for me than they would be for an able bodied person. I then asked - "Sympathy from whom?" Does Ms Fruitloop consider that a judge would discriminate against a able bodied person.....etc etc". I went on - "Or sympathy from her? As she has so far come across as a person of questionable moral character and appears to have little grasp of reality any attempts of pleas for any kind of understanding would be utterly futile"
'John Smith' within the court papers, as a response to my mention of disability, said - "it may interest you to know that I am 'severely' disabled as a result of injuries received whilst serving as a police officer. So I think we can cancel that one out!" - I replied...... Disability is NOT a competition and he should be thoroughly ashamed of himself.

John Smith (ex-police officer)hmm used his skills to determine I was a danger to ms fruitloop hmm and stated that ebay had been in touch with her to tell her that I had "demanded" to know her address. Of course, there was no supporting copy of this ebay email hmm. I supplied the copy of the email within my defense which is an automated email sent to both her and me providing contact details (not address) of each party.
She had used this absurd claim to obtain use of a C/O address at a cost of £45.
I sent a separate letter to the court manager about this, pointing out that John Smith is a made up person, what the actual email was and more importantly.....she had already freely given me her actual address! - so why has she been allowed to increase the costs of this case?

I have just sent off another set of forms and so now it's just a case of waiting for her to apply to the judge for a hearing.....

Methe Tue 12-Mar-13 16:17:04

Brilliant grin

(marking place!)

omg I know it must be very stressful for you but its so funny!

Ebay automatically gives a seller the buyers address but she's claiming you are stalking her by having her address????

Oh and take it from me, claims like this are the daily entertainment for the court service people.

Its about £40 I think to file the papers. Then if she insists on a court date thats over £500. that she has to pay in advance I am sure.

All for her to be either told that she can have £2 a week off you - and of course you can default after the first payment and she can then start the whole procedure again, OR

I am sure there is something where by, if one party runs up unreasonable costs by not acting reasonably (ie she refused your goodwill gesture) then even if she wins, a judge can order that she pays her own costs.

I hope it does go to court. And that you invite ME to go along with you as I would not miss that for the world.

sixlostmonkeys Tue 12-Mar-13 16:25:25

I think these hearings are held in a public room aren't they? (not sure)
Hehe - shall we make a m-net day of it?

notapizzaeater Tue 12-Mar-13 16:32:08

Omg - people like this really exist ?

DeafLeopard Tue 12-Mar-13 16:35:46

Count us in six - MN meets fruitloop

TippiShagpile Tue 12-Mar-13 16:41:20

OMG. This sounds truly hideous. I can't believe you're having to go through this.

Please keep us posted.

I know we're sort of laughing (nervously) about her but this sounds like a real head fuck situation for you.

Hope you're ok.

<<closes ebay account>>

WeAreEternal Tue 12-Mar-13 16:42:58

This is insane!

Please, please, please, continue to share every detain of this, it's hilarious.

Caitycat Tue 12-Mar-13 16:58:27

I really feel for you, entertaining as this is to read (and you tell the story very well!) it must be unbelievably stressful and time-consuming for you, I really hope all goes well and the case is concluded (in your favour) asap

Milliways Tue 12-Mar-13 17:04:08

Wow, I just read the whole thread and it's a great saga! Glad you are coping so well, and looking forward to the outcome!

FancyPuffin Tue 12-Mar-13 17:05:06

shock

<Firmly marks place for outcome>

<Cheers on sixlostmonkeys >

sixlostmonkeys Wed 13-Mar-13 09:45:57

Thanks for all the support! smile I really do appreciate it.

I'm glad that you are responding by saying how crazy it is etc. It is reassuring to know that others view this as absurd otherwise I will start to doubt myself.

The amount of time this has taken up annoys me. I struggle as it is to get everything done ie keep up to the house, run a small business. (my health slows me down. I shout at my health for this but it doesn't listen grin ) The most upsetting times though have been when I have had to fill in court papers instead of taking DS out somewhere with his camera (he is 16 and at Art College)
A few weeks ago, it hit me that DS had been listening to me talking about Ms Fruitloop far too much, so, when he came home from college I gave him a few pounds and told him I was sorry and to go buy himself a little treat. He looked at me, then, pulled something out of his bag. He had bought me something to cheer me up!

It is stressful at times. As the lady at the Court Centre told me, I have to treat this the same as if it were a claim for £15,000 and not just £15. If I fail to follow the procedure of it all, miss a deadline or fill something in incorrectly, then I 'could' end up with CCJ against me. So, I worry that my forms will get lost in the post and I will be non the wiser until it is too late.

The real stress will come when it actually reaches court. I get so nervous at such things. I don't know why I get nervous, I know there's no need, but, I do.
A few years ago I had to attend court. I was witness for the good guys that time smile The night before I couldn't sleep. At 2am I convinced myself that the buttons on my blouse would pop open as I stood up there next to the judge, so, I ended up coming downstairs and re-sewing all the buttons grin

fergoose Wed 13-Mar-13 10:48:38

I cannot believe this fruitloop is allowed to bring this case against you. Will it be a local court, you can apply for it to be local to you I think? Any idea of a date? It won't get stopped before then unless you pay up or they drop the case I guess?

FancyPuffin Wed 13-Mar-13 10:53:14

Can you counter sue for your costs and for harassment?

*Disclaimer I may be channeling Judge Judy here.

fergoose Wed 13-Mar-13 11:32:54

I was wondering that - sue for stress?

sixlostmonkeys Wed 13-Mar-13 14:16:31

It should be the local court, yes. I have read that these cases are held in the court local to the defendant. I also had a bit to fill in on the last set of forms asking me if there is a reason for it to be held at a particular court. I completed that bit stating it is difficult for me to travel too far from home.

I doubt very very much that she will drop the case. I have considered paying her the amount BUT I honestly believe that it would not put an end to it.
I'm not sure if I've already mentioned, but, at the end end of her 'particulars of claim' she stated that should I defend this case then I will be 'dealt with at another place'. She claimed that I had made some serious allegations against her. She didn't say what these were, and even as I read through all the communications I still have no clue as to what she is referring to. Luckily, right from the start I was extremely careful in what I wrote, so there were no threats, name calling etc.
Of course, in my defense statement I said things like - she hasn't used any common sense, hasn't followed ebay procedure etc etc, so, I anticipate that after reading all that she will be preparing for this 'other place'
The police were good when I went to them with this. The problem was though, that although all this shows that she is really up to no good there is nothing solid for them to go on. The harassment side of it is civil rather than criminal, therefore not a police matter. They have made an intelligence report and shared it with her local police force and the DWP.
If she does make another move though, then I certainly won't just sit back and calmly fill in forms!!

I can't counterclaim for stress. I read it somewhere. Lordy, I've read that much on county court procedure that I'm sure I deserve letters after my name now grin

fergoose Wed 13-Mar-13 15:12:07

Sounds terrible - so threatening to deal with you at another place isn't a police matter? Words fail me.

I agree - there is no way you should pay her off. I hope once this is over, then you hear no more from this person. Have you done any more googling, I wonder if she has done this to other sellers? I bet she has.

Blurry29 Wed 13-Mar-13 17:43:03

This is genuinely the most interesting thread I've read in ages.

I hope you kick her ass SIX

Good luck grin

ohmentalnessisme Fri 15-Mar-13 10:28:49

Wow this is absolutely bonkers! I can't wait to hear the outcome, what a nutcase!

Iwantmybed Fri 15-Mar-13 13:43:27

Go Six. thanks I'm cheering you on.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea Fri 15-Mar-13 20:16:16

OP you are such a good mtter to give us the story bit by bit, normally the OP buggers off just as the story gets good.

Really sorry you are going through this, but thank you for sharing x

Blurry29 Tue 09-Apr-13 16:44:44

Any update Six? smile

I've just discovered this thread and my jaw is scraping the floor.

Six, you are coping with this amazingly! I would not have a clue about how to defend myself in a situation like this. Please kick this crazy woman's arse in court. And with any luck you'll blow the lid off the other murky dealings she's embroiled in.

ThedementedPenguin Tue 09-Apr-13 17:12:31

I've just read this all and I can't believe this person.

I hope things have gotten better for you six.

Thinking of you through this crazy case.

K8Middleton Tue 09-Apr-13 22:39:03

Omg. I've just read through all this nuttiness.

I have a vague recollection that you can claim for your time spent dealing with a small claim. Especially where it is malicious. I'll have a look. I think it was Dr somebody vs an energy co.

WandaDoff Tue 16-Apr-13 09:27:19

Wow, what a crazy situation. shock

Elkieb Tue 16-Apr-13 09:57:00

She is nuts OP shock

CandidaDoyle Tue 16-Apr-13 19:20:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HeyYoniYoni Tue 16-Apr-13 19:40:44

Oh yes please update

sixlostmonkeys Wed 17-Apr-13 10:08:05

No update as such.

There was a delay at one stage when the courts lost my papers. I sent them the tracking that showed they had been received and signed for. They must have sorted something out because I have now received the latest papers which tell me that the case has been passed on to the judge at my local court who will allocate a track.

I am astounded that she proceeded with this after reading my defense. Not only do I clearly point out how wrong she had been every step of the way but I also pointed out her questionable use of the care of address - a solicitor told me that a judge would not take kindly to this.

I think we are at the stage where the judge can make a decision without the need for hearing. This is apparently rare but I am really hoping that this happens.

Although my case is cut and dry, and watertight I am still very much aware that a judge could find in her favour. Many years ago a very good good solicitor explained to me that often decisions are made depending on the mood of a judge etc. Heck! many serious cases reach the wrong decision and I can only begin to imagine what it is like for the people involved in such cases.

I am now waiting for the letter to drop on the mat that informs me of the judge's decision of track. Fingers crossed that I don't have to waste a day in court.

Angelico Wed 17-Apr-13 10:22:48

monkeys I am shock shock shock at this. Is she really an elderly lady? And how on earth can the ridiculous justice system allow her to put you through this stress? It actually makes me angry.

So have some thanks and a brew and hang in there.

picnicbasketcase Wed 17-Apr-13 10:31:52

Good god. It's enough to put you off eBay for life. Best of luck to you sixmonkeys, if there's any common sense in the world, she'll be told where to stick her spurious claim and to behave herself in future.

fergoose Wed 17-Apr-13 10:40:57

I really hope the judge sees sense and stops this in its tracks. I bet it isn't just ebay that this person causes trouble on, I bet she has tried to sue the world and its wife will all sorts of spurious claims. Can't they stop folk like that if they keep bringing these cases to court?

EskSmith Wed 17-Apr-13 10:57:13

Absolutely unbelievable - hoping too that you get a positive result soon.

It is truly awful that you have been put through all thi, I think you're holding up remarkably well smile

sixlostmonkeys Wed 17-Apr-13 10:59:03

Thanks for all the words of support smile I forgot to say this earlier.
It really does help to read kind (common sense) words. It's easy to get so involved in this madness and start to believe that I really have committed some serious crime!

I wouldn't have thought people like her would be prevented from 'bringing' such cases to court. I guess everyone has a right of access to the legal system. Of course, the courts may place a note against her on the system and consider her behaviour when future cases are presented. Does that make sense?

I forgot to say in my previous post. One things that I fear may work against me is that judges may not understand the way ebay works. I found it difficult to explain procedures when I spoke to the police. If they are not familiar with ebay it kind of confuses the entire issue.

six sorry to hear that this is still dragging on. My DH and I were involved in legal action (a bit more than £15!) but it really was so stressful. You read and read and read and try desperately not to be caught out. It's all so tiring and stressful. I just wanted to say how brave and sensible you are being and I hope that this is all resolved soon.

LineRunner Wed 17-Apr-13 17:12:04

six Good luck, you are amazing.

That is a really good point about making sure the judge understands how ebay works, if it gets as far as a hearing.

I went with a friend to the small claims court and although her case was on the face of it very good, she lost because the defendant was most insistent that the judge understood the contractual obligations on both her and the defendant (it was an insurance thing). The defendant asked for and was given a lot of time to lay out the contractual position.

Iwantmybed Sat 20-Apr-13 15:19:43

Good luck Six, here's hoping the judge sees through her ridiculousness.

Jammybean Sun 21-Apr-13 09:47:57

This has to be one if the craziest ebay incidents I have ever read. You're dealing with this amazingly Op. And this woman has some serious serious issues.

Gingefringe Tue 07-May-13 19:55:45

OMG what a nightmare! I bet this woman is a real fruitcake - I wouldn't want her for a neighbour! You are dealing with it incredibly calmly and methodically - good luck with it all.
When it's all over can you let us have her ebay name so we can block her? I wonder how many other people have been embroiled in her nastiness.

sixlostmonkeys Wed 08-May-13 15:33:08

I've just had to phone the court because the claim had been with them for a month and I thought I really should have heard something.
It seems there was a delay because she applied to have the case transferred to her local court. This request was denied.
The files were then placed on the wrong pile; so it's a good job I phoned or they would have sat there for ever!
The judge should now read the case tomorrow and his/her decision on track should be known sometime next week. Fingers crossed he/she decides to throw the case out smile

I don't think I will be able to share her ebay name online: there is a law against it and knowing my luck she will take me to court again grin
If you sell antiques (especially silver) and size 18 cardigans, then you had best give me a shout.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea Wed 08-May-13 20:43:54

Fingers crossed, although I can't imagine you will lose, she sounds like a loon!

aladdinsane Wed 08-May-13 20:58:27

What a nut
This would tip some people over the edge, I am so glad you seem to be coping
have you sold anything on eBay since. Is there anyway eBay could be dragged into court- they should be for not stopping this loon

lljkk Thu 09-May-13 19:07:13

.

Fluffycloudland77 Fri 10-May-13 17:40:32

Wow. Just wow.

She's hoping to get costs accorded isn't she? I hope this works out for you.

MeAndMySpoon Sun 12-May-13 09:38:01

Shamelessly marking my place! grin OP, you have the patience and calm of a saint. I hope I never have to deal with someone like this on ebay.

Blimey, this is still going, I would've have hoped that this would have been laughed out of the Judical System by now.

In fact, sixlostmo, That's exactly what I do sell.

wink

<<cough, cough>>

IrritatingInfinity Mon 13-May-13 23:53:19

Any update ?

YoniWidge Mon 13-May-13 23:57:58

Just found this and am hooked. Update?

JaxTellerIsAllMine Tue 14-May-13 14:21:08

Just found this thread! Read all 5 pages and I am astounded that someone has the cheek and craziness to raise a legal case over £15!

Seriously the court should throw this out and throw her in jail for wasting everyones time.

Laughed at the rogue apostrophe. grin

FreckledLeopard Tue 14-May-13 14:29:24

This is truly bizarre. Are you doing all the legal work yourself? Out of interest, why don't you apply for the case to be struck out under CPR 3.4, given that the claim is totally devoid of merit and stands no reasonable chance of success?

sixlostmonkeys Tue 14-May-13 14:52:51

Well, I became impatient and couldn't wait for the letter to arrive, so I just phoned the court.

The judge has allocated the case to the small claims track and given it a 1 1/2 hour slot.

I now have to prepare my case and forward all the documents/evidence that I intend using in court.
I will then have to spend one and a half hours of my life in the same room as this woman............

fuzzpig Tue 14-May-13 15:03:05

Oh good lord I had totally forgotten about this crazy situation! Can't believe it's still going on. Entertaining as it is I am really glad you are handling this so well, I would totally crumble if it happened to me or DH.

Are you really going to meet her or is she still sending a solicitor on her behalf, you know because you are soooo crazy and dangerous and might stab her in the eye with a kipper?

I don't eBay much anymore and I'm glad I don't sell silver or antiques. And all my cardigans are far too tatty to sell. smile

DameFanny Tue 14-May-13 15:04:29

Yep, count me in for the hooked and amazed corner

delilahbelle Tue 14-May-13 15:18:24

Omg, what a mad woman. I must admit I used to sell on eBay, but now I much prefer the local Facebook selling groups. Much quicker, less stress, no fees and cash in hand.

sixlostmonkeys Tue 14-May-13 15:43:14

As far as I understand it all, she will have to attend court herself.
I don't recall all the details (although I shall now have to refresh my knowledge on it all) but it's only exceptional circumstances where a person can be represented, and, she made her application as the person who would be attending.

From the start she told me how it would be. She told me it would be held at her local court for example. I explained to her that it would in fact be held at the 'defendant's' local court, but she obviously didn't believe me, hence, her recent application for it to be held at her choice of court.
She also told me, well, John Smith (whom I don't believe actually exists) that John Smith was looking forward to representing Ms Fruitloop in court. I very much doubt Mr Smith will be able to do so whether he exists or not. Actually, it would be highly entertaining to be up against a non existing person for one and half hours.....Twilight Zone on a Tuesday afternoon; popcorn included grin

I have a sneaky feeling that Ms Fruitloop may be coming to my place of work in a couple of weeks. She of course will have no idea it's where I shall be. I 'will' have my camera ready to capture her in the process of selling her wares and may possibly forward these photos to the DWP who, I'm sure will be interested considering she claims to be a poor pensioner living solely on her meager pension. I may also share them with the nice people at the tax office...... Grass? Me? oh yes! grin
I guess once I've taken enough photos I can then have her arrested for stalking me.

lljkk Tue 14-May-13 15:47:48

so you reckon she's dealing items, not just collecting? But where does she sell? Or do you think she has a separate ebay account for selling?

sixlostmonkeys Tue 14-May-13 15:54:28

Her website is still online and it says where she sells.

She isn't doing it officially (I doubt it anyway). There is also the full list of businesses online that she has run into the ground over the years. At 77 years old she probably thinks she doesn't have to bother with all that registering and tax paying malarky.

Fluffycloudland77 Tue 14-May-13 15:59:53

I can't believe a judge gave it court time, I thought they threw out spurious cases like this.

I really hope you win.

BlueberryHill Tue 14-May-13 16:00:07

How do you know she will be coming to your place of work? Does she know that you know?

This is turning into an Ealing comedy / ebay farce? Sorry OP, you are handling it amazingly well, I hope that the judge sees through all her shit. Hopefully she won't turn up and you can get judgement in default.

daisydoodoo Tue 14-May-13 17:02:37

wow im almost speechless I cant believe shes gone through with it all.

Good luck at court.

WTAF???

she's as mad as a box of frogs.

i wonder how many cases she's got going. i reckon she's a lonesome billionaire and all she does with her time is take offence.

poor you. sympathies. this must be so stressful. and over what a normal person just wouldn't give 5 mins thought to.

'There is also the full list of businesses online that she has run into the ground over the years.'

what?

she goes around bullying people then?

all i can say is bloody well done for standing up to her.

Fluffycloudland77 Tue 14-May-13 17:27:09

Claude, I think it means she's started/bought companies and they've gone bust so she's started another and repeated the cycle.

fergoose Tue 14-May-13 18:04:07

once this is over you can turn it into a novel then a Hollywood film and you shall be able to retire on the proceeds. I would buy the book.

alienbanana Tue 14-May-13 18:15:39

How on earth have I missed this thread! Its insane!

sixlostmonkeys Tue 14-May-13 18:29:02

Oh, a Hollywood film! I shall now have a good think about which beautiful, glamorous, elegant, sophisticated, young actress can play the part of me. gringrinwink

I have thought about writing the book........... smile

GoodbyePorkPie Tue 14-May-13 19:17:46

Oh my, I have just read this whole saga.

She is obviously a complete nutter - how has she managed to 'run businesses into the ground?'

Someone needs to take her out.

ah of course Fluffycloudland77

well i'm not surprised her businesses haven't done well if that's how she behaves. she's probably taken all her clients to court as well.

JaxTellerIsAllMine Tue 14-May-13 20:36:04

she's a serial business killer. smile

Chances are she wont turn up at court. Although I am desperate to know where it will be held and loiter. grin

Sunnywithshowers Tue 14-May-13 21:25:16

Bonkers.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea Tue 14-May-13 21:52:57

Oh God I neeeeed to be there to watch.

Is there a public gallery? grin

YoniWidge Tue 14-May-13 22:14:23

Is there a public gallery?

I want a like button for that grin

Just read the whole thread and this is utterly insane!

Hope it gets heard in a court near me so I can attend grin

carabossse Tue 14-May-13 23:05:17

This sounds stressful, good luck with the court case.

After reading the thread- who pays hundreds to claim £15- I wonder if this person has an illness or some personality disorder. Either way, hopefully she'll let the judge know what she's like by her actions in person as well as her words. Surely a case of wasting court time?

trixymalixy Wed 15-May-13 08:41:54

Oh my word! Have only just found this thread and I am gobsmacked!!

Please update as soon as you can!!!!

sixlostmonkeys Wed 15-May-13 11:16:42

Just discovered that "John Smith" does actually exist!
He is a retired Police Officer, and was retired in 1991. So, after a quick guess at the years he was active I now have Gene Hunt in my head grin

I've just been reading some court stuff and it seems she can have someone with her/ or for her at the hearing. I do hope he walks in the room, adjusts his leather driving gloves and says "Right...Let's fire up the Quattro"

You can have someone with you too.

That time I accompanied the company solicitor to the small claims court, he thought it was going to be an edumacation for me, seeing the big hotshot lawyer in the courtroom.

It was the UK office of a multi-national and the company solicitor saw fit to take a distributor to court over sums which were in dispute at the time, and the distributor had put all disputes in writing and the sales office were dealing with it.

For some reason knobhead inhouse solicitor started on that the man had run out of time, and issued court papers. When I discussed it with him he sneered 'well I hardly think he is going to take on a multinational company with our unlimimted resources is he?'

anyway the dist stuck to his guns and contested it and attended court. He stayed calm, only spoke and answered when spoken to by the judge. He came over as intelligent, hardworking man who had had to take a day out of earning a living (self employed) to attend court.

On the other hand our solicitor was pompous, arrogant, waffled on to the judge on 'legal points' etc.

Judge must have decided his judgement within 2 mins of each of them opening their mouths. I am not sure what exactly his finding was but I remember the pompous solicitor getting totally flustered and asking if the judgement could be set aside. I do remember we were ordered to pay the distributors costs as the issue should not even have come to court due to him having docs and emails to prove he was trying to sort out the supply disputes.

So, take someone with you.
Keep calm. No matter what this other person does or says, YOU are the sensible one and have nothing to prove. Let her/John Smith think they have one over on you. THe calmer you are, the worse they will appear. Judges hate nothing more than 'vexatious litigants' who waste everyones time and money over things that should just never be subject to legal procedings. Whatever she does or says, just smile sweetly at her, this will drive her insane. There is no need for you to say or do anything over and above respond to whatever the judge says to you. He is trained to ask a few questions in order to hone in on the truth of the matter.
Keep in mind all the time that this lunatic has done ALL THIS for £15.
I know that is not normal. THe judge will know that's not normal too.
I am hoping that he is letting it go to court just so that she will make a complete show of herself and he will award you your costs. Who knows, he may be letting it go to court because he is curious as to what this lunatic is like in real life!

Do you have someone to go with you? Even just to nudge you under the table if you start getting annoyed!
Oh and if its the same set up as the one I went to (in Wigan) its not like a full court thingy, its just a side room and you all sit round a table. Very civilised.

Oh and that time the court found against out company solicitor?

To my great delight 2 days later the MD of the UK division came hurtling into the solicitors office first thing in the morning demanding to know why we had a CCJ against us (for the distributors costs).

Our bank had informed head office in the US and everyone was on the warpath!

It was lovely. So you see, people who use the legal system to threaten and intimidate others, do get found out grin

sadly I left that job 6 months later as his bullying and intimidation did not stop at distributors...

When this is all over, phone the HMRC grass-up line about the businesses that this person is running. Even pensioners have to pay tax on earnings.
ANd then find out the name of her latest company and phone the insolvency hotline (number on companies house website) and report her for abuse of the 'phoenix company' type legislation in order to avoid debts/taxes. They do have to have a live company though when you do that, you can't report someone for a liquidated company if they haven't started up a new one out of the ashes.
Have you searched on the person at 'jordanwatch' website, you can search on her name and also John SMiths to see if he is a dodgy business man too. Possibly her husband and in on the chain of liquidated companies?

sixlostmonkeys Wed 15-May-13 12:02:04

Thanks for all this Flibbertyjibbet!

Annoyingly I have to go out now - and I'm just getting to grips with some things I'm finding on the net.

I'll post more later.
I do hope you are all around over the next few weeks as I prepare for the hearing! (the posters on this thread are actually all I have smile - my ds is supportive of course, bless him, but he's only 16 - too young to burden )

Livvylongpants Wed 15-May-13 12:32:44

Shamelessly marking my place to see what Mr and mrs fruitloop and going to say at this hearing.

Well done for how you have handled this very well, I would have probably given her a swift kick to the tits not dealt with it with the dignity that you have smile

SisterMonicaJoan Wed 15-May-13 13:33:57

Not that you should need it, but good luck six

As a pp said, the judge is probably intriged what fruitloop is like or he can already see she is a malicious claimant and he has already made his mind up to let her be much out of pocket so he can hit her back with costs!

Footle Wed 15-May-13 18:06:00

Coming out of lurkdom to cheer you on, sixwinningmonkeys.

TidyDancer Wed 15-May-13 18:23:13

Oh sweet baby Jesus.

This is the best thing I have read for ages! I am so sorry this is happening to you six, but thank you so much for bringing it into our lives!

Am waiting on tenterhooks for the next instalment!

Good luck!

FancyPuffin Wed 15-May-13 18:30:33

Good Christ shock

I can't believe this is still going on! I hope you wipe the floor with her six

petra27 Wed 15-May-13 18:40:05

Oh my goodness me, as someone who sells online and thought she had met a few strange people, I can not actually believe this woman and especially that she is allowed to bring it to court.

I am so sorry for all the stress and hassle for you.

How does one get classed as a vexatious litigant (& can therefore no longer apply to the court) does anyone know?

On a less serious note I do sense a Mumsnet outing coming on though...

petra27 Wed 15-May-13 18:46:40

Ok have found the uk official list of vexatious litigants

www.justice.gov.uk/courts/vexatious-litigants

Can't get it work as a link, sorry, you'll have c&p

Have a look to see if your madwoman is listed, it might explain the PO box?

Doyouthinktheysaurus Wed 15-May-13 18:58:06

OMG

I remember this thread from ages ago, can't believe you are still going through it!

I hope commune sense prevails when this gets to court.

The woman sounds utterly deranged!

Lioninthesun Wed 15-May-13 19:00:00

Try not to say too much at the Court. Ex took me there and he showed himself up by spouting a load and getting worked up. I calmly sat there looking at the ceiling as I had listened to the Judge at the beginning asking us to talk only when spoken to or asked a question by her. He showed his true colours without me having to say anything. It was amazing watching him ranting and seeing the people in the room shock and looking at each other as if to say 'is this guy for real?'. Take someone with you for laughs afterwards, wish I had. Just make sure they stay quiet and mentally record the highlights for you grin

Lioninthesun Wed 15-May-13 19:01:17

It took us 8 months or so to get to Court and the waiting was the worst bit. I honestly started to wonder if I was the one in lala land. Trust me, the best bit is yet to come. x

I am pleased to see that the two years I worked for that pompous oaf were not in vain.

Vexatious litigants, yes there is some way to apply to have someone on that list but no idea how one would do it.

Where is it? Can we come and even if we can't come into the room, we can all stand in the corridor and do cheerleading type things. Well, some can do cheerleading type things, I'm far too knackered for that these days.

BenjaminButton172 Wed 15-May-13 19:07:53

Ha ha i just got a funny look from my dd because i laughed out loud at the Gene Hunt reference.

Its good to see that u can still laugh about it. If it was me i would probably feeled weighed down by all the hassle.

This woman is crazy and i hope the judge tells her or john smith this.

IHateSafeStyle Wed 15-May-13 19:14:17

Font forget we have some fab legal bods on the legal section if you need anything

ShadeofViolet Wed 15-May-13 19:19:47

I hope your judge is an english version of Judge Judy and she tells her she will get zip!

YoniMitchell Wed 15-May-13 19:25:24

This thread is fascinating! What a dotty old crackpot she is!

Good luck with it OP, I love your responses to her madness!

williaminajetfighter Wed 15-May-13 19:32:25

People in eBay are nuts but eBay always side with the buyers.

I sold something on eBay and sent the wrong item. Paid for the person to return it and an extra 10£ for the hassle. She was still unhappy and started threatening me. When I told her to F off she demanded an apology then said she would contact my work to complain about my behaviour! (I had written her a market email while on lunch at work)

Sure enough she did!! Wrote to the President who then felt it might need a disciplinary investigation. Lovely!

Too many scrabbly cheap people on eBay with serious MH issues and too much time on their hands!!

williaminajetfighter Wed 15-May-13 19:33:24

Meant to say I told eBay all of this and all age got was a warning. They care much more about their customers than their sellers sadly.

williaminajetfighter Wed 15-May-13 19:34:01

Meant to write narky email not market email...

ScrambledSmegs Wed 15-May-13 19:48:27

Wow. This thread is amazing. I'm ashamed to say that I can't wait for your next post - ashamed because this is your life and must be causing you loads of stress.

She really comes across as a teeny bit insane, doesn't she shock

Six You can probably publish this as an e-book when you're done smile.

McKayz Wed 15-May-13 20:07:05

I've just read this from the start. She really is a fruitloop!!

Any ideas how long you have to wait for the case?

sixlostmonkeys Wed 15-May-13 20:20:42

Thanks ever so much everyone for your posts! It helps to know I'm not alone in this smile
I'm absolutely shattered at the mo (been a long day) so I will reply to the posts in more detail tomorrow (hopefully)

I'm still a tad taken aback at the discovery that John Smith actually exists. It adds a whole new light on the matter. I shall have to re-read all the documents and emails now with the fact in mind that they are 2 separate people.
Very odd that google didn't reveal him a few months ago, yet this morning my first search for him brought up results.

There is definitely something fishy about the pair of them - I just can't put my finger on it.
One reason (of many) that I believed them to be the same person was that some of the many email accounts used had the same number in it.
Now, I raise an eyebrow after reading a letter he wrote to the Telegraph in which a uses a word - the word she uses as her ebay name. This word isn't used much these days, it's a C13th word.
I'm probably not making much sense, but I can't get past the thought that something is, oh I don't know, ....odd.
Oh, and he uses the word bollocks twice in his letter to the telegraph. Like I said earlier............Gene Hunt!!!!

TheHuffAndPuffALot Wed 15-May-13 20:23:22

Bloody hell, what a nightmare for you OP.
Hope the judge sides with you when it eventually gets to court.

fergoose Wed 15-May-13 20:25:01

so this other person is probably husband/boyfriend/brother then?

TheFallenNinja Wed 15-May-13 20:29:08

I have to see how this goes smile

TheFallenNinja Wed 15-May-13 20:30:28

I have to see how this goes smile

JaxTellerIsAllMine Wed 15-May-13 20:31:58

John Smith must be related in some way to the crackpot woman. ex copper, maybe dirty past? <clutches at straws>

Snazzynewyear Wed 15-May-13 21:08:07

Sounds like a case for Inspector Morse! (the word use makes me think of Morse's crossword thing)

Is it absolutely certain that this John Smith really exists? Is he on the electoral roll, or what kind of evidence is there?

BenjaminButton172 Wed 15-May-13 21:08:38

Oh yeah they are definately related or something. He wont be called to court as an 'expert' witness.

(yes i watch too many police shows smile)

Allice Wed 15-May-13 21:49:36

Just read the whole thread, can't believe that you're having to go through all this.

Really hope it's all over and done with soon. I do sometimes sell size 18 clothes, I'm scared now!

sixlostmonkeys Thu 16-May-13 09:38:03

Thank you to those who have advised me to stay calm in court and only only answer the judge's questions etc. I have taken this all on board.
I am generally a calm person anyway but admit I am prone to offering the odd sarcastic comment when someone is being ridiculous. I shall drill it in to my head that I must refrain from such comments smile

I have tried to think of ways to reply to questions here about the relationship between the two people etc. At the moment I can't think of a way to explain what I know without giving away too much searchable detail. I'd hate them to find this thread - not just because she will probably take me to court again, but I don't want her to be forewarned of any of my intentions etc.
All I can say is that they don't live together, well, he isn't registered as living with her, she has never been married and it's unlikely they are related.

Back to my Gene Hunt reference grin. Now, I'm probably going to be making some generalisations here but I really don't mean to offend anyone. Please take the generalisations with a pinch of salt.
I'm building up a picture of what kind of man John Smith is. I have a feeling he will indeed be in court and will do most of the talking. Of course I may be wrong but my gut tells me to prepare for 'him'.
Based on the tone of his emails and statements, and the era he was in the Police force I really do believe he is the type that Gene Hunt characterises
John Smith stated on a court application that because he is a very experienced retired police officer he knows that "I am obviously unwell and dangerous" he offers no evidence to back this up. I can almost hear Gene Hunt saying " Of course she's guilty. I know she's guilty. You only have to look at her"
I've just been reading more letters he has written to the Telegraph and I came across one where he states he votes for the BNP and urges others to do the same. I anticipate a very unpleasant 1.5 hours sad Are you all sure you want to be there to watch?!

lljkk Thu 16-May-13 09:58:28

Are you joking? Send me an entrance pass now! grin

FannyFifer Thu 16-May-13 09:58:35

Holy shit, this is one of the most mental things I have ever read.

You poor thing.

I really don't know what to say except, please please say you live near me, I would love to go to the court & see this. grin

BenjaminButton172 Thu 16-May-13 10:02:53

Of course we all want to go to show our support to you against this mad woman (and to be noseywink)

JaxTellerIsAllMine Thu 16-May-13 10:47:00

Absolutely we ALL NEED to be there! Because I picture Gene Hunt - but nowhere near as nice and twice as sexist; and you as Bolly! grin

If he keeps on slandering/libeling you then you can continue this court battle for decades! Never mind a book, a whodunnit serial should be made.

Snazzynewyear Thu 16-May-13 10:47:06

The 'unwell and dangerous' thing - I imagine court cases involve a lot of stuff being alleged that is clearly nonsense and has no evidence to accompany it, so I'd expect the court officials to treat that with the derision it deserves.

Allice Thu 16-May-13 10:49:26

I really don't understand how they're claiming you're unstable.

Does she have a history of doing this kind of thing?

ScrambledSmegs Thu 16-May-13 11:01:20

I think the question is, do you really want to go into court against these irrational people without us there to support you?

Sunnywithshowers Thu 16-May-13 11:50:01

If the case is near me I'd be happy to come along for moral support.

fergoose Thu 16-May-13 12:11:33

John Smith sounds hateful sad

Fluffycloudland77 Thu 16-May-13 14:49:37

The judges we had were very good at seeing through the other sides bullshit. Also if he starts to talk down to the judge that won't go down well.

IHateSafeStyle Thu 16-May-13 14:50:26

I was going to say are you sure she exists?

I'm sure any of us would be happy to be there to support you and not leave you to face them alone.

Can you give us a clue to the general region then can can fight over decide who comes with you for entertainment support.

We will need someone with a hidden camera good steady temperament.

500internalerror Thu 16-May-13 15:14:58

I've got a pile of stuff to list on ebay today - but I'm decidedly put off it now shock

lljkk Thu 16-May-13 15:16:42

On the day you'll get a whole gaggle of supporters at this rate, 6lost, ready to take you to pub for commiserations or celebrations afterwards.

BumpAndGrind Thu 16-May-13 15:46:04

Ms Fruitloop sounds like my nextdoor neighbour.

ArabellaBeaumaris Thu 16-May-13 19:24:42

Shameless place marking!

Caitycat Thu 16-May-13 20:28:49

What a lunatic, if they get anywhere with this case I will seriously doubt the British justice system!

NotEnoughJamOnTheBread Thu 16-May-13 20:49:41

I'm transfixed by this. Place well and truly marked. Good luck to you Six

Footle Thu 16-May-13 21:15:18

It did cross my mind that they could find this thread but it's really not likely.

Lioninthesun Thu 16-May-13 21:17:40

Yes OP, try to keep schtum (I too am prone to sarcasm and had to refrain, deffo worth it to hear how crazy they can be - let them dig themselves more of a pit!).
On a more personal note; please don't focus on them calling you dangerous etc. It is meant to wind you up and get you upset and wanting to bit back. Ex's dad wrote a very horrible letter to the Court stating I had mental issues (he has never even met me!). The whole idea was to get me angry in some way and retaliate. They are clutching at straws. I think you sound like it is all fine, but I know first hand how the those little words can keep you up at night. I felt I may have to defend myself all through the case but the Judge could clearly see what he was about. They must have people like this use the system all of the time. Try to put it all to one side once all of the paper work is done and forget it; you will wonder why it was such a big deal afterwards smile

Lioninthesun Thu 16-May-13 21:18:10

*bite not bit!

Gingefringe Fri 17-May-13 08:20:03

Once this is sorted eBay will seriously need to reconsider their practices - If I read this right they don't seem to see a problem with her demanding money off you even though you refunded her in full? Now that's a novel way to make a living!
Good luck to you. You sound lovely.

marking place as I won't be online for several days and don't want this gripper to drop out of my active convos!

ButchCassidy Sat 18-May-13 13:15:42

Good Luck!! Rooting for u smile

nancerama Mon 20-May-13 12:39:34

I can't believe this is still going on. John Smith and Mrs Fruitloop sound like my old neighbours. I was wondering where they'd gone.

I have everything crossed for a positive outcome for you, but what a lot of stress and upset for you OP. it's shameful that eBay and the legal system has allowed this to get so far.

DameFanny Tue 21-May-13 20:01:33

Puffination.

There. Now I can find the update next month without wading through the whole topic. grin

janey223 Tue 21-May-13 20:33:38

This is bonkers! How could I have missed it? Good luck op!

whoopwhoopbib Tue 21-May-13 22:54:36

Wow I can't believe that there is someone out there who honestly believes that they have a case to take to court shock .

Op you sound amazingly strong and I can't wait for the update on what Mrs Fruitloop is actually like in person grin

halestone Wed 22-May-13 01:37:05

Good luck OP i hope common sense prevails thanks

sixlostmonkeys Wed 29-May-13 09:32:30

I have now received the letter from court giving me a date at the beginning of July. Lady Fruitloop will have to pay another £25 for the hearing, but considering she's come this far I think we can safely say she will pay it.

I think I mentioned earlier that I had a feeling they would be in my neck of the woods over the bank holiday weekend.
Apologies for being cryptic but I'll try and explain without this being googleable.
There are events run by a certain company that Fruitloop &Smith trade at. One such event took place at the weekend.
I wandered around this place (100s of stalls) and came across just the one that fit the description: items they were selling, ages of them both and her dress size. As I hid behind a shelf of Royal Doulton figurines glanced across I saw (whom I presume to be) Mr Smith flip open a police notebook and proceed to write in it. Bearing in mind this man tells anyone and everyone that he is a retired police officer at every opportunity it stands to reason that he would be using a police issue notebook.

I fully accept that this may be all coincidence and these two people may be an innocent couple, but I filmed them anyway should DWP and tax office be interested dear lord, if it is them then I am about to face the worst 90 minutes of my life!

Now he was how I expected a 71 yr old retired PO to look but Lady Fruitloop?...well, based on her choice of (many) cardigans I expected a degree of elegance and poise I guess. Wrong.
Now I don't wish to appear bitchy grin but if I just say 'Widow Twankey'... I don't know if it was a massive boil or a mole on her top lip. When I say 'mole' I mean the entire cast of Wind in the Willows.
Now, appearances are by the by really. I'm no oil painting myself (unless you consider Picasso) but... I do have a problem with the way she sat. Could her legs have been any wider apart?! So un-ladylike tsk. She did nothing but shovel food into her mouth, only pausing every so often to re-apply the bright red lipstick.
The big issue though was her B0 and the gallon of perfume she used to disguise it.

Hopefully I've just bitched about two entirely different people to those I am expected to share a room with for 90 minutes.
But, if it is them....?
Top of my list of people to avoid are BNP and stinky people. No disrespect y'honour, but 90 minutes of listening to him and gagging because of her for the sake of <£15 that I don't owe? Really?

IKnowWhat Wed 29-May-13 10:11:08

SixLostMonkeys. You should write a book about this. You are really funny.
It is such a crazy situation.

It makes hilarious reading but a confined space with those two sounds horrifying!

Here's hoping she manages her annual bath and best cardigan for the show down grin

philipina Wed 29-May-13 12:29:40

Goodness, Op. I wondered how you were getting on. Do you have to go to court personally, I feel dreadful thinking of you having to go through that, or could you send a representative on your behalf?

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea Thu 30-May-13 11:38:12

Beginning of July? I can't wait that long for the outcome!

All fingers crossed for you OP.

JumpingJackSprat Thu 30-May-13 12:44:46

Ive just read all this totally open mouthed in disbelief - is this woman totally mad!? Definitely think that IF these two at the event are fruitloop and smith that the DWP etc need to know about them!

BlueberryHill Sat 01-Jun-13 20:23:26

Did Mr Fruitloop lick his pencil before he wrote in the notebook.

Just typing that feels wrong.

Good luck

MissRee Thu 06-Jun-13 14:22:51

"lick his pencil"

grin

I still can't believe this! I hope the judge throws a the book at them!

JaxTellerIsAllMine Thu 13-Jun-13 15:38:19

Ive just came back from holiday and had to find this thread again for an update!

I cant believe this is still ongoing.

Iwantmybed Sun 23-Jun-13 19:28:03

Six, wishing you luck for your meeting in court.

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Thu 27-Jun-13 14:45:17

Good luck. Fingers crossed that common sense prevails.

JakeBullet Thu 27-Jun-13 14:56:36

Bloody hell, what an utter weirdo this woman is. Just read all through this read with utter astonishment!

JakeBullet Thu 27-Jun-13 15:02:49

<wishes Judge Judy worked in the UK and could be there for case>

whysorude Thu 27-Jun-13 15:51:04

Just read the thread for the first time.

Wow. Seriously wow. All this for £15.

TotallyBursar Thu 27-Jun-13 18:04:18

shock

God I can just picture them both - grim, petty, nasty little weasels both. I bet he bloody well does vote BNP - a retired copper to boot angry just what our police need...oh wait, I forgot the BNP aren't racist.

Six you have handled this with admirable poise and wit. The stress you must feel and the irritation of dedicating time & brain power to this ridiculous situation just makes my blood boil for you.
Hold on to your film, hold your nerve, get this finished and make them pay DWP and all of the excellent suggestions upthread - see if that and court costs teach them a little lesson on who not to mess with.

Also, your son sounds so utterly lovely!

lljkk Thu 27-Jun-13 20:26:57

I thought 6Lost had a more recent update than this...?

PurplePidjin Thu 27-Jun-13 23:04:35

Good luck, six wine

SigningGirl Fri 28-Jun-13 00:22:21

I've just read all of this! Good luck!! (For being in the room with them, mainly!) Practise keeping a straight face/hiding your WTAF face! grin

sixlostmonkeys Fri 28-Jun-13 09:41:32

Thanks all for the support smile

I'm in court next Wednesday at 11.30. Good MN vibes sent my way (Leeds) much appreciated. smile

I took my papers to court and asked if it was still going ahead. Oh yes, she has paid the £25.

I have to say I have been quite shocked by the way the court is run. I'm not familiar with courts but I did expect it to be formal and efficient. Whenever I have phoned them the call gets answered by a mumbler who sounds like he really can't be bothered. Most questions are answered by a disinterested "yeah...." stopping just short of a "whateverrrr". When I went to court and asked the uniformed man at the door where the small claims dept was he did a little dance as he looked skyward and sang the opening times to me. After being directed to window 1 I explained my reason for being there to a chap who appeared to be in absolute shock that someone was talking to him, he then swiftly changed his expression to the one granny has just before she nods off and eventually drawled "yeah....you want window 4" Please let the judge be sane and animated smile

Since my last update I have discovered that Mr Smith also goes by the name of Mr Jones. I assume changes were made when hotmail did that change to Outlook. At the side of his emails to me I can click straight through to his facebook page (in the name of Jones) There I can see his has written his work/life history. Retired Police Officer eh? Well he announces this fact at any given opportunity (his letters to the Telegraph for example when commenting on current affairs etc) This man is 71 years old and was a police officer from 1961 - 1967. Oh, and his friend list? Well, that list consists of young girls who post photos of themselves....well, parts of themselves anyway.... and they don't wear much clothing either.
He also contributes to tripadvisor where he likes to mention the fact that he is currently writing a romantic novel.

It feels kind of.....surreal that these people are taking to me to court. I'm waiting for some weirdly dressed Telly person to jump out and announce "Fooled Ya!" More than anything though, I'm annoyed at the time this has taken up.

If any of you can make it please take notes for me! I feel a book coming on grin

Ponders Fri 28-Jun-13 11:58:57

he was in the police from age 21-25 & he calls himself a retired police officer? WTF has he been doing for the last 46 years?

best of luck, six thanks

HormonalHousewife Fri 28-Jun-13 12:04:48

You will be great, just remain calm and deal with the facts.

Common sense will prevail flowers

wish I was near to offer support, but will be thinking of you.

JakeBullet Fri 28-Jun-13 16:12:34

He sounds an utter delight!

Oh I wish I could be there to witness this.

JakeBullet Fri 28-Jun-13 16:16:36

Have you got to go to their nearest court or yours?

Place marking. Blatenetly. Need the outcome!

Borntobeamum Fri 28-Jun-13 16:30:00

I'm lost for words!
I recently sold a size 18 cardigan and looking frantically through my eBay account to see if I've received feedback yet.
Shit, not yet!

Stropzilla Fri 28-Jun-13 16:49:38

Just come across this and wow! Good luck for your Court date and that has put me off using eBay for life.

I saw this when you first posted it, OP - but somehow I missed your updates over the months (apologies for my inattentiveness) - and I am in shock at how far she has taken this - and in awe at how calm you have stayed, and how you have managed to retain your sense of humour!

I will be thinking of you on Wednesday - I would be there in a heartbeat to support you, if I didn't a) live near Glasgow and b) have a hospital appointment that afternoon. Frankly, if it weren't for the appoint,net, I would have offered to leap on the train for a day trip to Leeds!

mignonette Fri 28-Jun-13 17:10:04

Good luck! As someone who recently represented herself at an appeal tribunal against the local council (and won) and who attends them on behalf of clients, may I reiterate the advice to only answer the question; offer no supplementary information, talk objectively- not what you think, just what happened and prepare for adversarial questioning which can be a bit of a shock when directed at you.

And good luck. AA Gill calls these people 'green ink people' as many of them allegedly use this..

Yes tell the police they do step in to stop harasnent like this from nutcases. It happened to a friend of mine - though not ebay-related.

I don't expect you will ever receive real cout papers that was just a threat. Let us know if you do. What is the basis of her wanting money from you as you have already give the refund?

TotallyBursar Fri 28-Jun-13 17:34:26

MrsTP - there is a lot of development in the thread you seem to have missed?
Six is indeed having a court appearance this Wednesday. They have taken it that far.

I've been watching / lurking on this thread for ages, stunned with amazement at every update. Here's wishing you a HUGE success next week. Show the court that this women is a deranged loon. smile

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea Sat 29-Jun-13 11:55:41

Good luck six, how much I wish I could be there!

Shakey1500 Sat 29-Jun-13 17:19:28

Ye Gads!

You are amazing and I'd give my back teeth (if I had any) to be there with/for you. All the lucky vibes in the world for you wine

LoveBeingUpAt4InTheMorning Sat 29-Jun-13 17:24:39

Positive thoughts coming your way

LineRunner Sat 29-Jun-13 17:24:51

six, hand holding here.

TheFallenNinja Sat 29-Jun-13 17:27:25

My god is this still going. Good luck next week.

FancyPuffin Sat 29-Jun-13 17:28:01

This fell off my threads I'm on hmm

Masses of positive vibes for you six not that you should need them.

Hertschick Sat 29-Jun-13 17:36:41

Good luck six! Stay calm in there and hopefully all sorted soon - what a waste of time and concern for you. I'm sure the Judge will see through it all.

Rosa Sat 29-Jun-13 17:46:25

I am in shock reading this thread FGS has the world gone mad??? Wishing you a postitve outcome and that the judge gives Mrs Fruitloop a telling off for wasting time.....

Whojamaflip Sat 29-Jun-13 17:51:03

I'm shock its gone this far - had assumed the whole situation had crawled away and died a quiet death.

good luck six next week thanks

SisterMonicaJoan Sat 29-Jun-13 17:54:52

Eww, he sounds worst with each post.

Can't believe they are going ahead with this!

Good luck for next week!

ButchCassidy Sun 30-Jun-13 12:32:21

Good Luck!!!!

ragged Mon 01-Jul-13 07:58:36

. counting down the hours until an update.

JumpingJackSprat Mon 01-Jul-13 08:03:54

Good luck you'll be fine! Hopefully the judge will see right through them and throw it out with a costs order against them!

GibberTheMonkey Mon 01-Jul-13 08:52:18

Just read the whole thread
Something makes me think its all him and he uses her as a front. Probably believing in his sexist way that people will be softer with an old woman

Good luck

WhatHo Mon 01-Jul-13 13:11:47

My opinion is that this is how they get their kicks. He's been retired for 46 years. How else does he amuse himself? Does anyone else think that Six should try and find out why this chap was only in the force for 6 years? Bet there's a nasty little story there...

Joking aside I SO feel for you. What an absolute, petty, waste of your time and brain-space.

LineRunner Mon 01-Jul-13 13:58:08

Are you going to ask the judge for a costs order, six? One which includes an amount for all your wasted time...

Oh my word......another one here who has read the whole thread. OP, I can't believe how calm you are, I think I would have lost the plot by now! This is definitely a book for you to write, you are so funny and articulate smile

Good luck on Wednesday!

IncogKNEEto Mon 01-Jul-13 14:30:50

I read the start of the thread, but didn't comment, as I couldn't think what to say, I thought that it would all just die down and go away as they seemed so obviously crazy shock

I still can't believe this is ongoing shock well done for staying so calm and reasonable. Retired police officer indeed! Hardly a long career was it? And possibly not that illustrious either as it was cut short after so few years!

Good luck for Wednesday.

YoniMitchell Mon 01-Jul-13 15:05:23

I've just caught up on the latest for this. Good luck on Wednesday, you'll be great.

Also, this ex-police officer, he was only on the force for 6 years? That's nothing in the scheme of things - wonder why he left?!

Footle Tue 02-Jul-13 07:36:00

More good luck from me. Hard to believe this is really going to court. Hope they get a lot of books thrown at them.

LineRunner Tue 02-Jul-13 16:57:44

Yes, best of luck tomorrow, six.

SunshineBossaNova Tue 02-Jul-13 18:17:33

Good luck smile

ragged Tue 02-Jul-13 18:33:59

.

Stellarpunk Tue 02-Jul-13 19:00:04

Another shameless post marker!

Good luck OP!

I won't say good luck because luck won't come into it, just a bit of common sense on the part of the judge.

And also I need to post so this goes back in my current threads.

Remember that judges are well trained in extracting only relevant information. They will aim their questions to find out exactly what they need. Although it may be frustrating you need to just answer what he asks and resist any temptation to try and 'get your side over'.

Idiots will always out themselves, you have nothing to worry about!

Best of luck Six.

ExcuseTypos Tue 02-Jul-13 19:26:46

What a waste of the courts time shock

I hope the judge gives her a good talking too. Good luck tomorrow!!

Afrodizzywonders Tue 02-Jul-13 19:34:27

Just read through what has been a crazy roller coaster ride of lunacy for you!!

Best of luck tomorrow, kick butt!

Oh I was wondering about you OP just last week.
I hope everything goes well for you tomorrow.
I really want to believe our justice system will laugh in fruitloops face.

Nowhere near Leeds, but will send positive vibes.

GiveMumABreak Tue 02-Jul-13 19:36:51

sixlostmonkeys these nut cases have bitten off more than they can chew when they messed with you! Good luck for tomorrow!

johnnycomelurky Tue 02-Jul-13 19:42:59

Hope it goes well. Those two sound truly bonkers!

RoooneyMara Tue 02-Jul-13 20:02:58

God Six you have been through it with this one.

You've been a proper rock to me over the years on this topic, and I understand exactly how stressful this will have been for you.

I've only just found the thread but what a complete nutter.! I will be willing you on, tomorrow.

Sending thoughts and good luck and all that flowers

PurplePidjin Tue 02-Jul-13 20:31:16

6 years and retired? Smells like gross misconduct to me hmm

ThemeNights Tue 02-Jul-13 21:17:24

<books train tickets to Leeds>

LornieLoola Tue 02-Jul-13 21:41:57

Good luck OP, hope the judge is of the same variety!

outoffuel Tue 02-Jul-13 22:03:14

Just read this thread! Best of luck six!

WandaDoff Tue 02-Jul-13 22:25:32

Best of luck for tomorrow smile

TheHuffAndPuffALot Tue 02-Jul-13 22:39:25

Was wondering how you were getting on. Sorry its come this far.

Good luck tomorrow 6lost.

fuzzpig Tue 02-Jul-13 22:49:33

Glad I saw this again as it'd come off my TIO list. Best of luck for tomorrow grin

(I wonder if retired policeman will include you in his next soft porn novel) grin

whatshallwedo Tue 02-Jul-13 23:24:25

Good luck I can't wait for the next update smile

FannyFifer Tue 02-Jul-13 23:41:31

Jings, been wondering how u were getting on, this thread disappeared from my threads your on list.

Best of luck tomorrow.
Keep calm, sanity will prevail!

CairngomRockHunter Wed 03-Jul-13 00:09:50

Wow, good luck with all this! I can't believe it is still going on.

Caitycat Wed 03-Jul-13 07:19:40

All the very best for today and an end to this nonsense. Will be thinking of youx

CrowsLanding Wed 03-Jul-13 07:24:12

Best of luck for today op.

HoneyDragon Wed 03-Jul-13 07:40:12

I missed the court date up date, till I saw this. Good luck monkeys.

bleedingheart Wed 03-Jul-13 07:41:48

Hope everything goes as it should today OP, this is so unfair! What a waste of money!

gaggiagirl Wed 03-Jul-13 07:47:41

Good luck for today! Sending you strength and calm flowers

MrsSchadenfreude Wed 03-Jul-13 07:54:02

Good luck!

DoingTheSwanThing Wed 03-Jul-13 08:00:37

Hope all goes well today Six. There's a small army of MNers standing right behind you smile

poorbuthappy Wed 03-Jul-13 08:04:04

Best of luck. Will be thinking of you at 11.30!

libertyflip Wed 03-Jul-13 08:07:09

Good luck, will be thinking of you.

K8Middleton Wed 03-Jul-13 08:07:35

Good luck smile

fergoose Wed 03-Jul-13 08:17:52

good luck, good luck, good luck - hope these people look as daft and ridiculous as they seem and show themselves up to be utter timewasters

glastocat Wed 03-Jul-13 08:26:04

Bloody hell, what a pair of grade a fruit loops! Am on tenterhooks for the outcome!

notapizzaeater Wed 03-Jul-13 08:31:33

Good luck , not that you should need it, the judge should be laughing them out of court ....

Sephy Wed 03-Jul-13 08:34:22

All the best six, hope it goes well today

Boosiehs Wed 03-Jul-13 08:44:06

Good luck today!! What a total fruit loop!

learnasyougo Wed 03-Jul-13 09:14:27

good luck, six. thanks and don't be nervous.

ZenGardener Wed 03-Jul-13 09:19:16

I just found this and my jaw is hanging on the floor.

Good luck!!

Good luck! Started reading this last night & just finished. Am staying with relatives just outside of Leeds, wish I had read it sooner so could have come to court to offer some support. Thinking of you! Hopf

Good luck! Started reading this last night & just finished. Am staying with relatives just outside of Leeds, wish I had read it sooner so could have come to court to offer some support. Thinking of you! Hopefully the judge will see through this bonkers situation. Rooting for you!

moreyear Wed 03-Jul-13 12:12:24

Best of luck - I am sure you must be feeling nervous but I hope it isn't too stressful for you.

Surely the judge will do the right thing and sentence them to some sort of penal colony.

TotallyBursar Wed 03-Jul-13 12:44:31

I'm a bit late but wanted to wish you the best of luck. I'm sending as much moral support as is possible through the power of MN.
I'm hoping that this will be the absolute end of this farce and they get humiliated by the Judges response. I don't often wish for that but they need to be stopped - I don't know if they chanced their luck or somehow found info on you and thought you were vulnerable - they picked on the wrong woman! They are vile but you are amazing and have met them head on.

Sorry I've been up all night so might sound a bit bonkers. I hope you know what I mean thanks

DoingTheSwanThing Wed 03-Jul-13 13:24:28

Nope, not clock-watching at all wink

Hope it's all over for you!

WandaDoff Wed 03-Jul-13 13:25:03

Soooooo..

How did it go?

I hope they got laughed out of court.

Hope you're busy celebrating now 6lost smile

edam Wed 03-Jul-13 13:42:26

Good luck sixlost - this is a bizarre saga indeed, hope the judge has thrown it out.

ThingummyBob Wed 03-Jul-13 13:47:27

I remember this thread from a ages ago too, can't believe OP is actually in court today for not returning some money she's not required to refund anyway. Totally bonkers shock
I'm in Leeds too and I so would've done a MN meet up in the public gallery if there is one grin

Hope you are ok six and the judge was slightly saner than your adversaries!

TeWiSavesTheDay Wed 03-Jul-13 13:51:52

Hope it's all gone well six.

PostBellumBugsy Wed 03-Jul-13 13:53:48

Goodness me, also remember this from way back when! Good luck today Six.

Gigaflops Wed 03-Jul-13 14:04:01

Just read this from the beginning - holy crap, there are some strange people in the world!! Hope today went well, Six...

Pantone363 Wed 03-Jul-13 14:09:31

Have just read this whole thing in one sitting. What utter utter nutters.

This will be the worst thread ever not to get an update....

tethersend Wed 03-Jul-13 14:15:16

Shamelessly marking place on the best thread MN has ever had grin

GO SIX!

CitizenOscar Wed 03-Jul-13 14:21:52

Hope it went ok today six.

Doyouthinktheysaurus Wed 03-Jul-13 14:23:19

I hope it went okay sixlostmonkeys.

It is unbelievable that this has gone do far.

mpac298 Wed 03-Jul-13 14:49:28

I am thinking about you, I hope all went well

ThemeNights Wed 03-Jul-13 15:38:59

Refresh

Refresh

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TheFallenNinja Wed 03-Jul-13 15:59:03

Hope it went your way smile

Featherbag Wed 03-Jul-13 17:06:52

Just read this whole thread - wow! What a nutter! Hope today went well!

GibberTheMonkey Wed 03-Jul-13 17:07:39

Any news?

GiveMumABreak Wed 03-Jul-13 17:25:19

Hope it went well today six and that when you have finished celebrating you'll come and give as an update!

Kooza Wed 03-Jul-13 17:31:35

I have never read such a bonkers thread in my life.
They are obviously two nutjobs who are feeding off each other. Well done you for remaining so calm!
Good luck for Wednesday!

Kooza Wed 03-Jul-13 17:32:14

Ah, and I just realised today IS Wednesday....[gives up and reaches for the sherry]

LineRunner Wed 03-Jul-13 17:32:42

It's amazing, in a bad way, that six has been getting harassed over this since January.

poorbuthappy Wed 03-Jul-13 18:06:36

Where is she? You don't think she's been carted off do youblush

EMUZ Wed 03-Jul-13 18:13:37

I remembered reading this ages ago, just caught up
<presses refresh>

TotallyBursar Wed 03-Jul-13 18:43:40

In a conspiracy between Leeds judiciary and an ex bent copper Poor ? <conspiracy theorist>
I hope not, they were pretty adamant though weren't they!

I for one will be the first on the picket line to 'Free the Leeds' Six...singular' if there have been shenanigans. I bet mn could find a lawyer or, if desperate, Food:Baking could do us a recipe for a cake with an undetectable file in it.

On a serious note Six I really hope the outcome was in your favour and you are recovering from today's hassle.

LineRunner Wed 03-Jul-13 18:45:52

I said back in January, 'oh but she'll never take you to court'. How wrong I was.

Mind you, I didn't know about the unusually litigious ex copper back then.

sixlostmonkeys Wed 03-Jul-13 18:49:29

Hi everyone!

Fist of all i would like to thank you all for your support. It has been overwhelming, and I can honestly say that even though I don't actually know any of you, your words have played in my mind and helped me through this. I am so grateful to you all smile

Sadly i have to report that the hearing was a complete shambles.

The judge didn't have the papers I had submitted - so it seems my files have been lost for a third time now by the courts.

Included in my papers was a printout of an ebay help page that states "the buyer is responsible for the return postage". I offered the judge my copy of this: he read it but announced he didn't agree with it because his friends had told him that it is the seller who should pay.

It went downhill from here.

Fruitloop and Smith were allowed to rant and rave about well, anything really. They ranted about things totally unrelated, they came out with some jaw dropping lies. Did you know that I phoned everyone in Lancashire with her surname asking to speak to Fruitloop? Hmm neither did I. I even had to listen to the details of the 3 murders in Preston. I'm only surprised the judge didn't actually find me guilty of these murders.

I remained calm and only spoke when asked to by the judge. Even then they would shout over me and at one stage I had to stop and explain I couldn't hear myself think. The judge's reply "yes you all need to stop talking at once"

The judge didn't understand ebay at all, he didn't seem to understand the postal system. He accused me of being unreasonable for following ebay's advice. He told me I should have claimed from Royal Mail (eh?) In his summary he even told me I shouldn't have brought this to court!

So he said I have to pay them the £13.60 (sorry i lied about it being £15 but I didn't want it searchable) plus court costs of £35. he asked how I would be paying. I told him I wouldn't be paying. He asked why. I explained about my financial situation. Smith them boomed about how much money I had spent in March when I listed 68 items and he gave a breakdown of how much I would have paid to list these items (proving I had money) Yeah, that would have been free listing day....

Smith ranted on about how he 'knew' I had money and about how dangerous I was. The judge them that none it was do do with him so they would need to take it up elsewhere. "Oh they will" - they replied. Oh they will.......

So, it would seem that this is just the beginning.....

Ohh no - I was so hoping that this would all have been settled for you today.

mpac298 Wed 03-Jul-13 18:58:40

I am SO sorry for your tribulations. These people should have been kicked out by the judge if nothing else. What a joke. I hope you can take it easy this evening, and if you ever are in London drinks are on me.

Umlauf Wed 03-Jul-13 19:02:13

Wtaf??! So sorry six that you have more to deal with of this.

fergoose Wed 03-Jul-13 19:05:12

bloody hell - so they are still going to pursue you for the money? Can you offer them 20p a week or something or will they send round bailiffs?

How the judge is allowed to do that job is beyond me - they clearly had no flipping clue about anything!

And the accusation of the phonecalls - these folk are clearly utterly bonkers?!

WandaDoff Wed 03-Jul-13 19:05:41

Oh FFS. What a fucking farce.

I would be quite happy to paypal you a fiver towards it.

If ten of us do that you can pay it off & get it over & bloody done with.

Fucking Idiots angry

WandaDoff Wed 03-Jul-13 19:07:56

Was it the same people that you took pictures of the other day?

DoingTheSwanThing Wed 03-Jul-13 19:09:58

WTAF?!?! There must be some appeals process?

What do you want to do? If you just want it all over with I'll send PP too... Or you can fight and we can get a protest movement going.

TheseGoToEleven Wed 03-Jul-13 19:12:04

Just joining now having read this this morning and anxiously awaited the outcome all day. I would happily PP as well! What a joke...

Pantone363 Wed 03-Jul-13 19:13:39

WTAF....WTAF!!!!! Can you appeal? My god I think I'd rather go to prison than pay these nutters a bloody penny. What justice is this? What does it show your son?

The judge sounds like a twat

mpac298 Wed 03-Jul-13 19:13:51

Yes, I am in, either PP or a protest movement of whatever you want to help. I am sure you are sick of fighting this, so we can help you as you want.

fergoose Wed 03-Jul-13 19:14:27

I will gladly contribute too

Pantone363 Wed 03-Jul-13 19:14:52

If you do decide to pay please do it in pennies.

Or PayPal her a penny everyday

sixlostmonkeys Wed 03-Jul-13 19:16:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

outoffuel Wed 03-Jul-13 19:16:09

I cannot believe this. Yes- I would contribute too... and what a joke of a judge. Ask for an appeal- and someone who knows ebay this time! Say that the case was unfair as the judge hadn't read your papers.

Will you get a CCJ for not paying?

FannyFifer Wed 03-Jul-13 19:16:40

OMFG, I have honestly never heard the like of this at all.
I really don't know what to say.

Fluffycloudland77 Wed 03-Jul-13 19:17:22

You should go to the press, the dm love a looney judge story.

I really can't believe they won.

fergoose Wed 03-Jul-13 19:18:27

so how are you meant to be dangerous?

And how is this person a judge when they don't know what they are on about - it is utterly ludicrous and so very wrong. I dunno whether to laugh or cry, it is just so awful.

GiveMumABreak Wed 03-Jul-13 19:22:59

Also happy to PP a fiver - if you want to just get this over with!

Bloody nutters - you need to put this behind u now!

Sorry six

Enjoy your baileys (hic!)

ButchCassidy Wed 03-Jul-13 19:23:00

Outrageous :-(

Trazzletoes Wed 03-Jul-13 19:23:30

Bloody hell six I am completely stunned!!!

If I were you, I would also seriously think about complaining to the court itself that they lost your papers 3 times and that this adversely affected your case as the Judge did not have the opportunity to read your papers beforehand.

In my experience (which can't be proven, of course) that will not have helped you at all. A complaint should not affect any appeal or any other dealings with the court. It is ridiculous that your papers were lost so many times.

HoneyDragon Wed 03-Jul-13 19:24:35

So the judge lost your paperwork and based his findings on what his mates said rather than eBay and paypal protocol?

What a fucking farce. So, so angry on your behalf.

Fuck it, if it comes to it, I'm happy to bung a couple of quid toward the £49.00 charges .... FFS no one should be a victim of such muppetry.

intarsia Wed 03-Jul-13 19:29:02

Is there anyone legal on here who can advise you? How is it possible that a judge is able to make such ludicrous decisions based on faulty knowledge?
It's good you have a recording. Are judges actually regulated by anyone to whom you can put in a formal complaint? Perhaps you could send them a transcript of the hearing along with a point by point breakdown of the mistakes?

RoooneyMara Wed 03-Jul-13 19:30:34

It sounds like he thought YOU were the complainant? (if that is the right word)

I'm shocked that this has happened, it really is completely farcical.

mind you I have encountered very unfair situations before so it is somehow not THAT surprising, just that really, what the hell can you even do about it when this happens?

Mind boggling. Have a brew from me my darling

Afrodizzywonders Wed 03-Jul-13 19:33:26

There must be a mumsnetter out there with legal knowledge who can step up and help here. This is a fucking travesty!

intarsia Wed 03-Jul-13 19:34:39

Ok I found this
Not sure if it's the right person to complain to.
www.justice.gov.uk/about/jaco

sixlostmonkeys Wed 03-Jul-13 19:34:47

Now you've done it! Offering to help me pay?....well the tears had to come at some stage I guess smile

It won't put an end to it though. They intend taking things further with regard to me being dangerous. Lordy knows what court summons will arrive through my letterbox next!

heh, my ds has just walked out of the room telling me he is going to start typing the transcript but while he is gone I have to promise not to murder anymore people in Preston grin

before we went into the chambers, I turned around and saw Smith glaring at me. He had pure hate in his eyes. Throughout the hearing he did nothing but attack me (in a real threatening way) about things that were lies and irrelevant. That man hates me HATES me.
I reckon i am the first woman who has stood up to him (via email) and therefore he hates me. Fruitloop didn't want to there. It was obvious. I reckon (as some here have already said) he is behind all this and he has forced fruitloop into this; making her sign the cheques for each stage etc. She looked dreadful by the end of it. It wouldn't surprise me if he is not battering her right now sad

Doyouthinktheysaurus Wed 03-Jul-13 19:37:37

OMG that is ridiculous!

I'm also happy to chip in a few quid if you just want rid of these loons! What a nightmare, completely disgraceful!

You have earned the Baileys!

TidyDancer Wed 03-Jul-13 19:42:08

Omg. Total farce then.

Wtf is wrong with the courts in this country?!

WeAreEternal Wed 03-Jul-13 19:42:13

You can and should appeal the judgement on the grounds that, 1, the judge did not have your papers and had therefor not read any of your evidence or defence, which could have biased him towards the plaintiffs, 2, the judge did not know eBay/PayPal policy and therefor was incorrect to make a judgement based on personal options (or those of his friend) about how eBay policy should be.

sixlostmonkeys Wed 03-Jul-13 19:49:35

It has crossed my mind to go to the courts tomorrow and ask if my papers had been passed to the judge - to try and obtain proof that he hadn't seen them.
I can pay for the official transcript and so this should indicate that he didn't have them. I need to sleep on this and make decisions in the morning.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Wed 03-Jul-13 19:55:47

You could post a precis on the legal matters board.

Reevesandmortimer Wed 03-Jul-13 20:08:17

OMG, what a total farce. Have just read this whole thread and, six, you and your DS sound so lovely and undeserving of this shit. I think you write brilliantly and I love your cynical sense of humour. Hope you sell your book for millions - I will certainly have a copy, let us know when it gets published. Can't believe what you are being put through, have a big hug, and put me down for a fiver if you would like to just make it go away.

Oh six hmm confused shock. I would want to cry with frustration....this is ridiculous. Completely agree with everyone who has said to appeal it - the judge sounds as bad as the pair of them! Also I'm very happy to chip in to get that from over your head. I think you've more than earned that baileys!

mignonette Wed 03-Jul-13 20:13:27

Make sure you wipe your ass on any banknotes before you give them over as settlement....That goes for any of us that want to help!

edam Wed 03-Jul-13 20:17:42

oh six, what an absolute farce. I'm so sorry the judge let you down so badly. Sadly I've had experience of this before - some judges/panels really are thickos who aren't fit to be in charge of a supermarket trolley, let alone a courtroom.

DO read the transcript very carefully - the case I was involved with (a tribunal) the transcript said the complainant was represented by a lawyer - no they flipping well weren't, it was a friend who accompanied them, and this was all made very clear the court!

TheHuffAndPuffALot Wed 03-Jul-13 20:36:31

You are kidding?!!!

I had high hopes that this would be settled in your favour today - I can't believe the actual outcome. That judge is an eejit.

LineRunner Wed 03-Jul-13 20:38:35

Yes I would go on to the legal board.

GoofyIsACow Wed 03-Jul-13 20:41:16

Six this is truly awful!
I remember reading this months ago and when it popped into active convos I was shocked that it was the same thread!

I cannot believe the time (of yours and the courts) that has been utterly wasted here.

Enjoy your baileys smile

AllSWornOut Wed 03-Jul-13 20:58:18

I have been lurking on this thread for several months now and I'm so sorry to hear of the farce you had to sit through today.

Can you appeal? Especially since it sounds as if the court protocol had not been followed.

Is it worth taking a copy of the transcript/your recording to the police and report them for harassment?

Absolutely fuming on your behalf angry

ThemeNights Wed 03-Jul-13 21:05:40

sad

Oh Six! What a shower of bastards.

Have a rest and a recoup, then think what to do next.

We are all behind you.

thanks

fuzzpig Wed 03-Jul-13 21:05:55

WTF!

SisterMonicaJoan Wed 03-Jul-13 21:08:36

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear what happened {{hugs}}

The judge thought YOU brought the case? I can't believe that, how frustrating. Bet Smith didn't rush and correct him either.

Please post in Legal - this injustice shouldn't be brought to your door.

Keep your spirits up x

GibberTheMonkey Wed 03-Jul-13 21:12:04

Noooo

I'm so sorry the judge put you through more shit

I'll donate

CitizenOscar Wed 03-Jul-13 21:14:02

I'm horrified at how this has gone.

Sounds like solid grounds for an appeal but what a waste of everyone's time.

So sorry sad

TallGiraffe Wed 03-Jul-13 21:44:48

Oh Six that is awful, I can't believe it wasn't thrown out sad

I'd definitely go to the press, and I am another happy to donate.

SunshineBossaNova Wed 03-Jul-13 21:47:59

I'm so sorry Six, what a bloody farce. flowers

gaggiagirl Wed 03-Jul-13 22:11:06

Go to the press! Its a bloody joke that you have been put through this.
I hope mrs fruitloop and her cuntish fella get scabies and nits!
I'm furious for you.
I bet Mr smith will take me to court now for wishing lice on them, go on you bastard make my day.

Oh no six that is horrendous sad

TotallyBursar Wed 03-Jul-13 22:34:00

Oh my god what an absolute travesty.

While I can totally, totally, see why you might want to just get this over and done with by paying I have a feeling that this needs a lawyer (or at least some solid advice) and an appeal due to his very concerning threats against you and 'taking it further' and you being dangerous. It's bullying and based in fantasy but he needs to be stopped from being able to harass you. That poor excuse for judge needs an arse roasting too - as if we don't have enough to worry about with the legal system at the moment, completely ineffectual arbiters of the law (ignoring it and substituting their own opinion) causing total lack of confidence really is not helpful.

What a dodgy cunt - and the Fruitloops are no better.
Take heart, you are strength and humour personified - do look into that book deal wink.

Footle Wed 03-Jul-13 22:43:52

This is awful. I hope someone with legal knowledge will come out of the woodwork to make clear what your options are. Very best wishes, and like everyone else I shall be watching to see what happens. What a lovely son you have.

learnasyougo Wed 03-Jul-13 23:14:32

as if the behaviour of fruitloop and co weren't shocking enough, that judge sounds incompetent. shock

ZenGardener Thu 04-Jul-13 00:22:26

I'm so sorry you got such an awful judge.

Do you think you will be ok? I agree go back and let the police know what happened just in case. I'm worried about you.

I hope you get a good night's sleep. You have a lot of people here willing to support you.

CairngomRockHunter Thu 04-Jul-13 06:20:23

I'm so so sorry to hear your news.. I just can't believe it. It has just blown apart my confidence in the legal system.

TheFallenNinja Thu 04-Jul-13 06:40:25

Hey six.

Hope you have a good day today smile

montague Thu 04-Jul-13 07:35:34

Just so that you and your son are aware, it is an offence to make a recording of the county court's proceedings without permission

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part39/pd_part39a#backf0326

JumpingJackSprat Thu 04-Jul-13 07:43:07

What an absolute joke. i hope you can come to some sort of decision, its a tricky situation for you. Be careful you dont end up with a ccj i think you may have to appeal the judgement x

PostBellumBugsy Thu 04-Jul-13 08:49:45

Blardy hell - what a farce. How awful for you. Huge hugs. Stay strong - you know you'll get lots of support on here. I'm sure there must be some lawyers around here somewhere who'd give you some advice.

ExcuseTypos Thu 04-Jul-13 09:57:15

Agree with montague. You could be in serious trouble for recording in the court. I would get rid of it it if I were you.

edam Thu 04-Jul-13 10:02:48

Make handwritten notes of your recording and then destroy it.

I do think you need a lawyer. The judgement is manifestly unfair as the judge was confused about who was bringing the case and burbled on about what his mate told him IMO (although am not a lawyer so who knows, maybe the courts consider this kind of crap reasonable).

alemci Thu 04-Jul-13 10:18:07

this is absolutely awful. without sounding flippant could you sell your story to a paper when it has all blown over.

Do ebay not help at all in these situations. Surely they should give you some decent legal support. Could your MP be of any help?

The whole thing seems like a fictional situation doesn't it?

Trazzletoes Thu 04-Jul-13 11:07:10

Tbh it doesn't matter what the eBay rules say if the law says you ARE responsible for the return postage... But I'd be amazed if eBay were so totally wrong.

If the Judge hasn't taken in to account information which was provided to him in your bundle then his decision must be faulty and I would be amazed if you couldn't appeal on that basis.

But I do really think you should complain to the court about them losing your papers 3 times. Please tell me you sent them at least by Recorded Delivery!

I think it would be helpful to get a lawyer to take a look and help you to draft appeal grounds at the very least. I'm sure enough of us have already volunteered to chip in to cover the costs of an hour with a solicitor.

LackaDAISYcal Thu 04-Jul-13 11:09:04

Gosh, I've just read the whole thread like this -> shock

And shame I didn't see it sooner, as I'm in Leeds and could have leant you some moral support yesterday. Can you get some legal advice on how best to handle things from this point forward?

PurplePidjin Thu 04-Jul-13 11:27:14

Many home contents insurance policies have legal cover included...

LoveBeingUpAt4InTheMorning Thu 04-Jul-13 12:11:38

I'm so shocked and feel go you

Ponders Thu 04-Jul-13 12:17:55

I am stunned at the outcome, six shock

Which legal service would probably be a great help, but it looks as if you have to sign up for a whole year...

you could ring anyway & see if they have an offer on at the moment?

or some of us could chip in? (I'd be happy to)

Ragusa Thu 04-Jul-13 13:19:51

I have just read most of this thread. Crikey - I feel so sorry for you. What a travesty. So much for justice.

Please appeal - whatever it takes. You don't want this being recorded against you, although I am not sure if this has any practical impact on your access to credit etc? You poor thing.

I don't know what to say - am just sitting here open-mouthed.

lljkk Thu 04-Jul-13 20:30:18

sad sad sad

bloody fucking hell. that is an absolute travesty. that this can happen in this day and age is shocking. have we just gone back 300 years????

The judge sounds frankly incompetent. I wonder what Ebay's legal dept would have to say about the bollocks he spouted? Dh suggests asking them.

fergoose Thu 04-Jul-13 21:46:40

ebay won't get involved, they will just say they are a venue so not liable.

Ragusa Thu 04-Jul-13 21:46:42

I bet ebay's legal department would run a mile! what's in it for them to get involved in a court case? Not much, I would guess.

You could try a Citizen's Advice for advice on how to appeal the decision.

sixlostmonkeys Fri 05-Jul-13 09:55:36

Once again, thank you everyone for your continued support.

I went to the court yesterday and asked about my papers. They admitted that my papers were not added to the judges bundle. I have a complaint form and I shall be sending a letter to the court manager regarding this. I don't know if I need to appeal or request another hearing. I'll see what the court manager says.

The absence of these papers affected this case so much! At the start, the judge said that neither party had offered copies of ebay's rules. I waited until I could speak and started to tell him I had submitted such a copy, but the judge cut me off. In fact, throughout the entire hearing I never got to complete a sentence. I was always cut off. When i did manage to hand the judge my copy he just said that he didn't believe these rules to be true because his friends had told him something different.

There are lots of other points similar to this, but the one that sends a real chill through me, and actually made me sick when the 'reality penny' dropped was towards the end of the hearing.
Up until this point, despite not being allowed to talk and despite the judge being 'confused' about ebay and the Royal mail etc, it did actually seem that the judge was leaning in my favour based on what he referred to as 'what was reasonable and probable'.
Here's what happened - Smith gave the judge his copy of one of my printouts. This is a printout from 192.com which I had included to confirm that the address they had given me via email was fruitloops address. I had attached this printout to the email. I had included these papers in order to clarify the issue of them being granted the use of a C/o address at the cost of £45. (The judge had earlier given them a roasting over this issue)
Now, if you can picture; I'm somewhat caught in the headlights at this stage and still thinking 'but the judge has this paper. He has his own copy attached to the email'
So, the judge is looking at this 192 printout, Smith is shouting out about how I have paid for a search to be done on fruitloop, how I have phoned every person with the same surname in Lancashire asking to speak to fruitloop, how I went 200 miles away to post that paper to her and she is sitting there tearful, talking about her three friends who were murdered in their homes.
"What do you have to say about this?" The judge asked me. I explained that 192 is freely available to everyone and that I had included the printout attached to the email in order to confirm...... But once again I was cut off.

It was at this point the judge changed. He then gave his decision.

I just keep replaying this scene scene in my head and I'm not handling it very well at all.

I sold something on ebay. How the heck did it come to this?!

ZenGardener Fri 05-Jul-13 10:09:11

I feel so awful for you.

Even if you did pay the 13.50 and the 35 pounds costs surely they would still be massively out of pocket?

It sounds like they just have too much time on their hands and want to use that time to scam people and bully people.

That is disgraceful that the judge didn't even get your papers. I hope they uphold your complaint. Have you tried contacting your MP? Does your MP run surgeries? Just explain how useless the court was.

Umlauf Fri 05-Jul-13 12:17:51

I am so shocked for you, but also genuinely worried for fruitloop. She is clearly not of sound mind and it sounds like she is really bullied by this horrible man.

I am shocked that the judge acted the way he did, and that the hearing was even allowed to go on, given as how the evidence was completely one sided!!!

Good luck with the complaint six.

K8Middleton Fri 05-Jul-13 13:58:43

Oh gosh that is shocking! I cannot believe it went ahead without the papers!

Six I understand you should have a right of appeal. Please use it and make the complaint.

Can you get any advice from CAB or similar?

Nicknamefail Fri 05-Jul-13 19:27:29

Directed to this thread today and reading has made my blood boil.

angry angry angry

Six please don't let this drop, you have been 'had' by the court system. You obviously have a brain and have meticulously prepared- what chance does anyone have in court!

Grrrrrr on your behalf.

Afrodizzywonders Fri 05-Jul-13 19:46:21

They are weird.

So, you just did a free 192.com search which threw up fruit loops details, which you added to your file (which the judge didn't have because the court lost it again), and correct me if I'm wrong, this was to clarify the real address not the PO box thing they used. Mr fruitloop shows it to the Judge and falsely claims you paid for this and had been ringing every Tom Dick and Harry with the same surname in the area (shows they are a tad paranoid!). Mrs Fruitloop is meanwhile talking of 3 friends murdered in their homes? In what context??!. What were they implying, why did she do that?

It's sounds unsettling that's for sure.

How long before this could be appealed, you need a swift resolution and these oddballs out of your life.

FlipertyJibbert Sat 06-Jul-13 00:13:36

Wow, I was not expecting this result. How upsetting for you. I really hope that you are ok and not taking it personally. If it wasn't you it would have been someone else.
I cannot believe the judge (actually, come to think of it I can sad)
I used to take people to court as part of my job (local government enforcement). I can't imagine such a disorganised and unruly court.

OP you posted the following in a post dated Wed 17-Apr-13 10:59:03

... One things that I fear may work against me is that judges may not understand the way ebay works. I found it difficult to explain procedures when I spoke to the police. If they are not familiar with ebay it kind of confuses the entire issue ..

sad. I guess you were spot on unfortunately.

(Ps I just noticed a poster called flippertyjibbert earlier in this thread. It is not me but as I only just started using this name I will change to something more original, sorry to the original and correctly spelt Flippertyjibbert smile )

edam Sat 06-Jul-13 00:31:41

Six, that is shocking. WTF was the judge thinking? (Or not thinking...) I do think you need to see a lawyer. You can often get the first 20-30 minutes for free.

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Sat 06-Jul-13 09:52:11

Gosh. I wish I was a barrister. I would come and represent you. This is nuts.

Please do call 101 if Smith harasses you. Threats at courts are bad enough.

GeneHuntsMistress Tue 16-Jul-13 19:21:47

I've just read this whole thread with my jaw dropping ever further at each update..... Poor sixlostmonkeys I feel actual indignant tears on your behalf. It's like some crazy nightmare! Is there any update? I hope you're ok.

And I can categorically state that Mr Smith/Jones is NOT my sexy Gene, how very dare you! wink

JakeBullet Sat 10-Aug-13 13:38:07

Been looki g for an update.....am speechless. Bloody frootloop woman and dodgy ex copper....okay so he is VERY ex but even so.

BoffinMum Sat 10-Aug-13 14:53:38

Just want to add to this horrific tale that after attending a tribunal earlier in the week, I can believe it about the judge being at best crap and at worst, too lazy to even read the paperwork. Mine certainly was.

FourAndDone Sat 02-Nov-13 15:03:13

Unfuckingbelievable! shock

Hope things ended there six!

Tinlegs Mon 11-Nov-13 15:22:01

Any updates on this. Jaw droppingly awful.

Twoandtwomakeschaos Wed 13-Nov-13 20:53:00

Have just been directed to this thread from another Ebay thread. I hope it was all resolved rationally...

OodaresingingoftheDoctorDonna Thu 14-Nov-13 07:44:53

Yes I've just seen this via the other one too. Did you get any more contact?

roadwalker Wed 04-Dec-13 17:37:36

I followed this thread with horror at the time
Is there anything further to report OP?

HamletsSister Mon 27-Jan-14 18:10:50

This has been hanging about in my watched threads for ages. I would love to know that the OP triumphed over the bastards and that she wants help with planning a victory party. Sadly, the lack of posting makes me feel that justice may not have prevailed. Does anyone know anything?

Shakey1500 Sat 01-Feb-14 21:41:14

No idea Hamlet but I've kept it on watch as well. Absolutely incredulous at the turn of events. Am still keeping everything crossed for OP and hope common sense has prevailed.

HamletsSister Sat 01-Feb-14 21:54:52

I just re-read it all, having forgotten most of the details. It is a horrible nightmare and I hope the OP is ok as she was tackling the situation with such patience and humour.

I hope the OP can come back with an update - a positive one.

sixlostmonkeys Sun 02-Feb-14 13:03:41

Hi!
So sorry I never came back with updates. I've just logged on to MN and found some lovely PMs. Thank you smile

I think my last posts were regarding the possibility of appeal? ---
I contacted the court regarding an appeal and seeking advice. It was hard work. No matter whether I contacted them via phone, email or face to face I struggled to obtain the correct advice/procedure; it even took an age to be put in contact the person who deals with such things. Anyway, eventually I submitted my appeal letter which also included my complaint that the courts had lost my files 3 times.
I waited quite some time for a reply, then realising that it really was taking too long I contacted the court again to ask how my complaint was progressing.They had lost my letter. #4!!!!
I resubmitted this letter. The court response was that I could apply for it to (sorry I can't remember the actual name of the procedure) be put on hold and then looked at by a judge. I would have to pay for this!
I read all the small print re the appeal and realised it was totally pointless. There was even a 'get out clause' where the judge can deny your appeal if he thinks you took too long to submit it. Even if you submit the appeal within 48 hours the judge can (and no doubt would) state that you should have submitted within 24 hours - case closed.

I wrote one last time to the court informing them that I would not be proceeding with the appeal as I refuse to pay (£80?) for their incompetence. I expressed my disgust at the way the court had failed me throughout the case and how these failings had led a judge to rely on hearsay over evidence.
Perhaps this letter stills sits in a forgotten corner of the courthouse collecting dust?

Fruitloop and Smith had been advised by the judge to instruct the court to send the bailiffs to my home, at a further cost of £100 (which would be added on to my debt)
I received an email from them informing me that they would be doing this if I didn't send them the money.
I haven't heard anything since from either them or the courts. However, still to this day my stomach churns when someone knocks on my door.

I have a CCJ therefor I am unable to get credit for 6 years. I don't regret this as such, because I simply could not live with myself if I had allowed them to force me to pay them money I did not owe. I will give anyone money if they need it (or food from my cupboard etc) but I will not be bullied.
A few months ago I met a chap and have been 'dating' him since. I was single for more than 10 years so this is a whole new chapter for me grin
A couple of weeks ago we were having a conversation regarding his business and mine. Still too early in the relationship, but you know how you have hypothetical chats.?. Anyway, I had to tell him that I am unable to get credit etc etc. That hurt! sad

I note from some of the recent postings on this thread that there is another thread similar to this? I don't suppose anyone can point me to it?

nickstmoritz Sun 02-Feb-14 14:40:32

Gutted you got such a lousy deal OP. What a fiasco. I have encountered some problematic ebayers (buyers in my case as I tend to sell rather than buy that much) but nothing to this crazy level but I don't doubt such total "fruitloops" exist and plague people. Poor you and I am glad that other things have been going ok for you. I wish you well. Shame on the system that fails to listen.

nickstmoritz Sun 02-Feb-14 14:42:06

ps hope you never get that knock on the door. And if you do, please give fruitloop a kick up the arse from me.

Gingefringe Sun 02-Feb-14 15:07:01

This is just incredible. Not just the whole fruit loop/Smith lunacy and nastiness but the apparent incompetence of the justice system! So you're now left with a CCJ and a possible visit from the bailiffs - unbelievable.
Would you be able to go to the press or your MP with this (or BBC Watchdog if this is still going?)
PS - any chance of divulging their ebay id? I would be keen to put these on a blocked buyers list.
Good luck in your new relationship.
x

HamletsSister Sun 02-Feb-14 15:35:48

Just incredible to find the UK court system being so incompetent. What a disgrace. Definitely feel you should take this further in some way but I guess they have probably taken up too much of your time.

Good luck with your new relationship. Maybe he can help you to do battle!

minniemagoo Wed 19-Feb-14 08:29:54

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/ebay/a1999247-Buyer-requesting-partial-refund-advice-please?msgid=45169825#45169825

Op I hope this link works to the new thread, but can I say well done you and best of luck with the new relationship!!

I would be tempted to contact Radio 4's Law in Action to look in to this - one of the thing they have as a regular feature is contracts on websites - ebay disputes coming to court and the judiciary not understanding ebay could be interesting to them www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/law-in-action/contact/

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