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A 2nd class package is £2.20 -am I missing something(77 Posts)
So as far as I know a package (not a letter) sent 2nd class in the uk is £2.20. So why do buyers on eBay try to make complaints about postage. I have had feedback comments with 'postage expensive, etc. Usually eBay remove them from serial complainers but am I missing something - are the post office ripping me off?
because often sellers add reasonable charges on top of the price of the stamp to cover jiffy bags, tape and time.
lots of buyers complain, but would do the same.
it's reasonable to charge £3.00 for that service (given that a jiffy bag costs a lot more than 80p!)
I don't think buyers realise RM prices.
They just think 'cor, that's expensive' but it is actually what it costs.
I have this issue, I send everything 2nd class recorded as I got burned a while ago by a buyer who complained about everything then claimed they never received the parcel and I had to refund them, losing out twice over.
The cheapest possible parcel 2nd class recorded is £3.15 but most things I send seem to cost around the £3.75 mark. You wouldn't believe the amount of complaints I get about the postage costs. I charge £3.99. I buy special postbags to send things in which cost a minimum of 80p each.
I recently got a neutral from a buyer who complained when I wouldn't send an item 2nd class standard. She got the item for 99p (something I was disappointed in, but hey, them's the breaks) grrrrr.
A4 size grey mailing bags cost about 10p each (you can buy them on e-bay!). Bubble wrap and brown paper is also cheap. I normally add 20p to the actual postage cost to cover packaging. Anything more than 50p on to the actual cost of the postage is unreasonable imo and I would leave low stars.
It depends what you sell. Many items of clothing can be sent as a large letter (so £1.10 1st or £1.20 2nd / £2.15 or £2.05 recorded). I wouldn't bother sending recorded though unless the item's above £15. Yes you have to refund if a buyer claims not received but most buyers are honest ime. I do look at feedback before sending though and sometimes send recorded if I don't get a good "feel" from it, even if it's a low value item! Having high postage costs will put lots of buyers off so I find you get more interest if your postage costs are reasonable. I wouldn't buy something for 99p and pay £3.50 for postage personally! I avoid sellers with unreasonable, imo, postage costs.
Ist class parcels cost £2.70 or £3.65 recorded
2nd cost £2.20 or £ 3.15 recorded, both up to 750g
it depends what you're sending.
I wouldn't send most of the stuff I sell in grey mailing bags, but clothes and sift toys would be okay that way.
That's true, I just re-read my post. I normally buy/sell clothes/shoes and toys so was thinking from that pov! Charging more than 50p for packaging could obviously be ok in other circumstances! 80p for a jiffy bag seems expensive though, unless it's a really large one?
I look at what the actual postage cost was and the packaging to see whether I feel it is a reasonable charge.
Op I agree with you, postage is expensive and I don't think people realise how much it cost to send stuff particularly recorded delivery.
Tesco do a4 Jiffy bags for 3 for a £1.
I get confused with the letter parcel thing as well
I sell lots on ebay (and buy), and honestly think if you don't want to pay the postage or think it is a rip off then get your item from somewhere else. It's all there in black and white on the listing so it doesn't really make any difference what the actual cost was.
Lots of people complain if you make 50p on postage for ebay items, but think nothing of paying £5+ for delivery from high street shops online.
You want to see what sellers and companies charge for BFPO! That's a joke given the fact that it is charged at UK prices as it is a UK postcode.
One company wanted £12.95 but offered free UK delivery. Drives me nuts as it all goes to a sorting office in the UK and then the military sends it over!
Rant over, thank you for reading.
Completely agree with you, it's not like its a shock, you are told before the cost of postage, if you don't like don't bid. Don't bid and then complain
Hmm I disagree. I'm buying a lot from ebay at the moment. £3.50 charge for P&P when the postage cost was £2.20...ok.
£5 charge when the postage charge was £2.20...not so much.
As the buyer, I can't know that £5 is unreasonable prior to purchase - I don't know how much the item weighs. The seller does, and the seller should be setting their P&P charges appropriately.
If you don't want your items to go too cheaply, start the bidding at a higher price. Don't add money to the postage to guarantee a minimum sale.
i always weigh everything before deciding on postage. Always send 2nd class recorded except heavier items where they have to be first class or more valuable items that need higher insurance. Add about 30p for packing if using grey bags, 10p if re-using old packing material and up to £1 for fragile things that need careful wrapping with bubble wrap etc. I tend to state this in my listings, as well as the weight of the item.
It's difficult because although you know the price of the P&P before bidding, there is no way of knowing the service the seller will use. Good sellers list the service (e.g. Royal Mail 2nd class recorded), but others just put £4 postage and you have to hope they don't send it large letter and pocket the difference.
The Post Office do charge more for BFPO addresses.I was caught out and ended up out of pocket.
I don't add money on to postage to increase a sale, I always do 2nd class recorded so £3.15 Jiffy bag cost me 33p so I always put pp as £3.50. I make no money from postage.
The postage label clearly states £3.15 and yet still I get moaned at about the cost if postage.
But I don't disagree that Royal Mail are a rip off
I think I'm missing something here too! I sent one item by Royal Mail and was charged £7.45 (recorded though, which I thought only added an extra pound). I thought I could only charge a max of £4.75 for postage?
No charge for materials or time etc.
I only ever charge the exact postage I have worked out beforehand. Packaging is either very cheap or free and it means my purchasers can have nothing to legitimately complain about.
Just to clarify as the site says BFPO addresses are charged at the UK domestic rate. Have lived at a BFPO address for years and done lots of posting etc, I'm afraid mirage your post office charged you incorrectly if it was more than UK postage. All Royal Mail do is deliver it the military sorting office in London.
My pet hate are those that charge 2.20 for one thing say they combine postage and then charge more than that for 2 or 3 things. Talking kids tops or similar
People who wrote that they are charging for petrol or driving time also annoy me!!!
Depending on what you're selling, it's worth checking whether you can make it fit into a "large letter" size packet (A4 size or smaller and less than 2.5cm thick) as these are way cheaper to send. E.g. a t-shirt folded twice usually slides into an A4 Do Not Bend envelope, or a strong carrier bag which you can then tape up and label.
Or you can sneak things into your work post and advertise them as free P&P, not that I would ever do that
My pet hate used to be that Ebay would only allow a maximumpostage charge which reflected the price of the item, not its size. But the way to get round that is to list it as the cheapest possible postage (second class, not recorded) then 'offer additional postage services' and give the option of first class, recorded etc with a note to buyers that you recommend choosing recorded delivery for high-value items.
I don't think RM is a ripoff at all. At least, no one else will deliver most of my stuff for £2.20. Obviously it isn't economical to even try.
I was thinking today about how sellers get shafted on postage both ways.
If they undercharge, sellers are considered to have no right to ask buyer for more.
If sellers "overcharge" they are expected (by many but thankfully not all) to refund buyers the difference. .
you are paying way way too much for packaging
I sell mostly china on ebay ( as a registered business) I charge about 50p extra for breakables only 25p if not breakable like books, brass, vintage linen
my posting stars are 4.87
mailing bags cost 5-10p on ebay
bubble wrap works out at 23p per metre, mailing boxes are about 12p each for small 6" cubes about 25-40p for 12" and above
by costs for sending say a collectable is about 35p -70p bubble wrapped boxed and with packing peanuts, the 70p would be for large cut glass vase, only multiple items such as tea set would justify packing fees of more than £1
it would be cheaper for you to buy bubble wrap and plain bags, also you can get padded envelopes much cheaper than 80p each
anything more than 35p extra for clothes is just silly
Royal mail is competitive below 2kg and cheapest below 1kg second class upto 750g at £2.20 is unbeatable price wise
obviously if you send 100's of parcels a day you might get better price from a courier
also I assume seller has weighed if item says 2.80 postage I assume it will cost 2.20 and 60p is for packing
if it says £4 i assume it weighs more and will cost 3.50 second class with 50p for packing both reasonable however if it says £4 postage and it cost 2.20 that is 1.80 for packing then that is completely unreasonable and I would expect £1 refund for excess postage
I consider the postage as part of the cost of the item and factor this in when I am bidding. I never expect a refund on postage and wouldnt mark down for it. As long as the seller gets the item to me promptly I have no problem. I also wouldn't expect to be charged more if the postage was dearer than expected.
I also consider the postage as part of the cost of the item when bidding, but don't expect to be ripped off. I recently paid £4.50 for postage... it came 2nd class and cost £2.20 wrapped in an old carrier bag. I complained and got the difference refunded. Sometimes it is difficult to estimate how much something will cost in advance - for example, if it comes neatly packed in a box it will probably cost more than you expected.
I've had the postage limited to 4.75 on some items (ski jackets) that weighed well over a kilo - some I had to send parcel post and I take the hit on those.
The smaller stuff I tend to charge 2.50 - that's 2.20 for postage and 30p for packaging.
If it happens to get into the large letter category or a lower mail rate than expected then I always send 1st class.
My P&P score is 5.
I am currently in dispute with a seller who packaged a polo shirt in a brown envelope (trying to get away with large letter). postage cost 2.20 - however the envelope disintegrated in the rain and the tshirt arrived sopping wet and stained. He charged 4.75 and will not give any explanation,. Still sitting in dispute. Apparently it's not his fault it rained - posting something to Scotland in November would be a BIG clue
People should not bid on items if they dont agree with the postage costs (simple as), you can see what they are charging so if its too high then why bid?
I charge £2.50 to post a small item, this covers postage and jiffy bag, i have never had anyone complain about my postage costs and my star rating is very high.
In my case - I did a search and saw the item was ending in a couple of minutes so quickly chucked in a bid and won - then I saw the postage but paid up as per the contract - thought at 4.75 he would have stretched to a proper mail bag - he is basically trying to screw the system - it shouldn't be "buyer beware" when someone is ripping the piss.
i charge £2.50 for clothes. I try to reuse packaging as it makes sense to recycle.
some of the postage costs do seem very expensive especially if they are not packaged properly like the polo shirt incident.
alemci - that's it, if he had got away with large letter he'd have paid out 90p and charged 4.75.
I live in the back of beyond so can send large letter, the biggest thing that'll fit in the post box, or courier. I list this as I only go to town with a post office once or twice a month. Courier with Hermes starts at £3.30. This is what I charge, people complain. Collection is always available and free.
If you don't want to pay the postage I'm offering please don't bid.
Hmm... I have just received my latest purchase - a silk tie for which I paid £2.75 postage. It came in a recycled jiffy bag with a 1st class large stamp on it - 90p! I can't decide what to do.... I was halfway through leaving feedback then cancelled it. To make matters worse it was a business seller!
I boycott the DSR system anyway (as a buyer). I don't want to have to concentrate on minor details of a sales transaction.
As a seller I know anything less than 5 gets frowned upon. Which is nuts. As a buyer I want to give everyone I'm satisfied with a 3. Because that sounds like "satisfactory." Only it's not, according to Ebay Inc.
I've been toying with the idea that maybe everything on Ebay should be offered with postage included. Would cost buyers more, probably, but just seems much fairer. Any local bidders for stuff offered with postage incluced could contact sellers first to ask about possible discounts upon local collection.
PurpleFrog supposedly (I have heard it argued, I personally think this is a load of cobblers, but anyway) business sellers are the one category that are supposed to charge you for their time. So £1.85 for 30 minutes to process & post your parcel wouldn't be unreasonable. I spent 30 mins getting to & from the PO today to post something.
However, as a private seller it is supposedly unconscionable for me to charge anything for my time.
lljkk - you're right - I had forgotten that! It must have taken her quite a while to score out the previous sender's address, stick a label over her own address and handwrite my address in biro!
Hmm - think I'll just keep quiet and mark her down a bit for postage!
yes it does take time and can be fiddly. The worse thing is if not everyone pays fairly quickly say after a Sunday night. I only want to go to the post office once.
I was so pleased today that I managed to park on my way home so at least I wasn't going out of my way IYSWIM.
So I've been using a4 Jiffy bags to send stuff in and I'm being charged 3.15 second class recorded. So it's going as a parcel rather than large letter is that because it is too thick?
Yes, griphook - A4 and less than 2.5cm thick is a large letter
That's 2nd class small packet rate, I think griphook, technically not "parcel" rate (which starts at £5.30. Almost nothing in a jiffy will make it into Large Letter rate (the cheapest 2nd class band).
One reason I state 3 days dispatch is to try to minimise the number of trips I make to PO. I imagine buyers nonetheless mark me down for speed of dispatch/delivery, though. I'm sure almost no one actually reads the dispatch days before bidding (I know I forget to), so they just think "Should it have arrived by now? Probably." without checking the actual T&C in the auction.
I must have been doing this all wrong because I only ever charge the actual postage. I send the majority of things first class standard which is £2.70. So I charge £2.70. But then again, I
steal borrow jiffy bags etc from work.
And people honestly don't read the dispatch time.
I state 2 working days after payment for dispatch but people still message me to ask why it hasn't arrived after 2 days.
I think there are many schools of thought about what is reasonable postage charge, Tantrums. You won't get a consensus.
The way you charge you end up paying FVF on Paypal charges, which would irk the blank out of me.
Even if you charge exactly same as RM you will still get people who seem to mark you down on postage. Eg.: folk like me who tend to think that 3 stars is a perfectly satisfactory rating.
I think it's outrageous to expect private sellers to charge nothing for their time, travel costs & parcel tape.
Plenty of buyers don't care about postage part, most I'll wager, they just care about total with delivery.
I reckon Ebay Inc. only care about fee evasion when postal charges that are ridiculously inflated, like charging £10 postage for a 70p stamp.
I reckon that ? 70% of my buyers don't leave any feedback. I wonder if that % has increased since DSRs came in.
I look at postage prices before I bid.
If it seems over the top I won't bid.
Having sold a fair bit I am aware of how much things cost to post. I don't bother selling heavy items like boots anymore.
Rubble sacks are a cheap alternative to mail bags.
I think maybe if I had to actually buy the packaging etc I might charge for that, but it just seems a bit...I dont know, wrong to charge for something I get for free IYSWIM
I think 3 stars is satisfactory tbh, I don't think you should have to give 5 all the time if it wasn't outstanding.
Mind you out of my last 35 items sold I've only had feedback on 21 which is a bit annoying.
I always give feedback on a purchase, and I always leave feedback when someone pays for one of my items promptly.
A tip for getting stuff in Jiffy as Large Letter - we use MailLite bags so I only know the size on those. If you use the G/4 size it's slightly bigger than A4 so normally won't go as LL. But if you fold over and tape up the edges it does - you still have to get it under 2.5cm though
This has meant we can drop the postal prices on about 5 of our popular items as we can now get them through LL instead of packet.
It depends what you are sending. It is a real pain that Royal Mail dropped the lower weight bracket of their "small packet" category - it really pushes the price up for some things. Like MrsZoidberg I use MailLite padded envelopes, so things like DVDs and Nintendo games go as large letter OK. For small clothes I use plastic mailing bags, wrapping clothes round a thin sheet of A4 card and sealing in a poly bag before putting in the mailing bag. With a bit of creative origami, most of these have gone as Large Letter OK!
FVF - Final Value Fees
DSR - Detailed Seller Ratings
you can not charge for your time as a private seller because if you charge for your time it is income and then has to be declared to inland revenue and you pay tax on it, it does not matter whether you charge for your time for baby sitting wrapping parcels cleaning washing cars or gardening if you charge it is taxable,
the profit on selling personal things is not taxable hence you can not charge for your time, inconvenience or petrol, parking. only packaging costs as if you charge for petrol, parking it means your car is being used for business purposes and you then need to insure for business use
I am interested in learning more about the business insurance aspects of charging for one's time, I don't know anything about that, what are the possible risks are for uninsured business sellers on Ebay? I also don't know anyone (like me) who is self-employed on low income & who insures themselves as a business, even if we have to identify ourselves as a business for IR.
Only would pay tax if it exceeds the usual personal tax allowance.
Technically IR require ALL earned income to be declared, but the recipient may well still be within the tax allowance and not owe anything. I imagine not reporting income might be a civil offence, does anyone know? I imagine IR really doesn't care about self-employed folk with income well below the tax allowance threshold.
All this chat over 50p's!
Having spent an hour this afternoon sorting out motor insurance I now I understand one of the risks of no business insurance! If you were only getting the car out to take an item to post office & you were charging for time, the car would be used for business purposes & technically not covered under usual motor policy.
However, if you were including other personal errands as part of the driving, then, I reckon the insurance claim would be valid under usual policy T&C. Not that the insurance company could easily check one way or the other.
BFPO prices ARE slightly higher, posted BFPO parcels for years - not much more, but defintely more
It really annoys me when sellers deliberately overcharge on postage in order to avoid ebay fees. i.e a 99p item such as a 30ml boxed used perfume with 6 quid postage charges.
Whenever I've questioned it I get stupid answers like "I need to make money" or " it's only 99p, you're getting a bargain".
More fool them when they get fewer bids and negative feedback and one star on their seller dashboard postage status.
But how do they continue trading if they do get that many 1 & 2 stars? Coz I read on here how people get their accounts restricted after just one or 2 bad lot of DSRs.
I don't know lljkk, but I do find it's usually NOT experienced top sellers. It's usually newbies who think they are the first ever person to think of a way of dodging fees. I really hate the stroppy replies when you question it too!
My stars are my lowest on my P&P (not enough to affect me) - I charge just less than the actual cost from RM
Do the people here who charge the same or lower than RM and get marked down on P&P take their items to the PO or mark them up themselves?
The items I send have the postage cost on them from the PO sticker so they are able to see what the actual cost is - I never get negative feedback.
Just wondered if that makes a difference to peoples perceptions.
The stars annoy me, especially sellers asking for 5 star feedback. Obviously free P&P gets a 5 star rating, so I'm not going to rate postage at cost at 5 stars. But that seems quite unfair when the sellers are being penalised for not having five stars!
If the postage cost is reasonable based on what it actually cost, I give 5 stars as that equates to very satisfied - it should probably be 4 which means satisfied, but I tend to be grateful that I haven't been ripped off - I guess i am easily pleased
I think there is a big difference in attitude between buyers who "just buy" and those who sell as well. I don't think the first group realise the importance of good feedback and 5 star ratings. On eBay a rating of 3 stars is not the average expected standard as it would be in all other things.
TBH, If the postage is under 4 quid (say it's 3.75) I don't usually mind. Recently I accidentally bid on an item (perfume) only to find the postage was 7quid. I couldn't undo my bid and I was stupid not to have read the postage first, but since the postage sticker only said 2.20 and the item was wrapped normally i.e sellotape and polythene, I did take issue and only gave one star.
I also wrote to the seller (who was newish at 23 sales) and said buyers will hate this and she risks negative feedback in future. It was well meant constructive criticism and she took it well.
I take mine to PO - I have never had any negative feedback or even been complained about, but my stars are my lowest on my P&P
As a seller and a buyer, I charge exactly what Royal Mail charge me and write off mailing bags/bubble wrap as negligible cost that keeps my feedback 100%
I only charge for actual postage cost, but always post recorded. No one has complained yet...
I don't charge for packaging as I re-use old packaging. I save all cardboard boxes, and any jiffy bags I get.
I use rubble bags (like really thick blue bin bags) and parcel tape for soft things, and cheapo bubble wrap from Home Bargains for things that need cushioning.
I don't buy jiffy bags as they are expensive, but you can get them cheaper in Home Bargains if you want them
Ps. I don't work for Home Bargains, I just love them
AngelOne- I know what you mean- Home Bargains is great for everything!
the question is
" were the postage costs reasonable?"
if you highlight 5 stars is very reasonable ( ie at cost or with minimum packing costs) if postage is free ebay automatically give you 5 stars buyer does not get opportunity to give star ratings)
4 stars reasonable ( to my mind packing charge perhaps a bit much by 10-30p)
3 stars neither packing charge well over
2 stars seriously overcharging by £1 plus
1 star overcharging to the extent practically fraud and fee avoidance ( like the bottle of perfume above with £7 postage)
note it is much much cheaper to use bubble wra p and plastic bags than jiffy bags
I know and I only ever charge exact cost or less, never ever over and always well packaged and still my lowest stars are on my P&P <<shrugs, gives up>>
because of buyers like the one above you only give 5 stars if free and give 3 stars for a perfectly good transaction
ie they bought they paid it was delivered on time and goods as described etc, they think 3 stars is satisfactory, when in ebays eyes 3 stars is a failure and if you have average of three stars you will be stopped from selling completely
thankfully most buyers understand that 5 stars are what is required, i occasionally give 4 stars if moderately unhappy but I would never give 3 stars for something that was problem free
I compare the actual cost of postage with the amount that I was charged, then look at the packaging.
£2.20 postage with up to £3.00 charged - 5 stars.
£2.20 postage with £5.50 charged - well, actually that's unreasonable!
So, if ebay want sellers to have 5 stars, don't tell buyers that 2 stars is 'unreasonable'. Tell us that 2 stars is 'Thieving the crown jewels'.
Well I often charge 25%+ over RM cost & my postage stars are very high! So just goes to show how pointless DSRs are.
If I had problems with postage costs rating I would start offering items with free postage. Bastard thing to do, but I'd feel that I had to.
I always give 5 if problem free, 4 if it's a bit slow but still reasonable, and I gave one star for the rob dog who charged me 7 quid for a bottle of perfume and only paid 2.20.
exactly 5 stars if problem free, no rip off everything as described
what ebay should say is
5 stars everything is fine exactly what they said i would get i got for reasonable price arrived on or before estimated date
4 stars a minor niggle slight overcharging, a bit slow maybe 1-2 days late
3 stars overcharged small faults not mentioned but nothing terrible or very late and needed to chse but fine in the end
2 stars major problems seller reluctant to put right but eventuially did
1 star major problems had to open case very unhelpful overcharged to point of fraud
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