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Is this unethical?

(70 Posts)

Buying stuff from an outlet shop and then selling on ebay?

confused

EdsRedeemingQualities Wed 07-Nov-12 19:01:38

I wouldn't do it on purpose but I will buy things I think I want, change my mind and then put them on ebay sometimes.

That's not the same as going and buying up the place on purpose just to make a profit, which though I don't know if it's ethical or not, I'd feel uncomfortable about doing.

I hate it when people buy up sale stuff or stuff that's cheap because it's from a charity shop, just to put on ebay or to sell as they're dealers - our local charity shop told me they get dealers in all the time, seeking to exploit - it's really sad. That makes me mad.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Wed 07-Nov-12 19:06:11

Of course not.

Buying & selling, it's what makes the world go around not love, the fools.

The only things I think are wrong are people getting things off of freecycle etc pretending they are for them (lying) and selling them on (fine if they say it's for ebay or carbooting) and buying from a charity shop and reselling, I think that's wrong - however, it's been debated on here many a time and some people don't think it's wrong?! I think charity shops should serve two purposes - to raise funds for their charity and to help out people who are struggling.

lljkk Wed 07-Nov-12 19:07:28

I think you are supposed to be a registered business seller to do this (Inland Revenue rules). I don't think it's unethical, though.

EdsRedeemingQualities Wed 07-Nov-12 19:11:13

I got something from freecycle once which was lovely, but the wrong size for our house. So I put it on ebay - the woman I'd got it from just wanted rid of it, I think, and I'd no idea if it would fit or not when I asked to have it.

I sold it for around £50. I still feel bad about that. But I don't think she would have minded - I mind if people do it on purpose iyswim. Not if something ends up being wrong for them and they dispose of it in a way that makes some money, well, that's Ok.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Wed 07-Nov-12 19:29:24

Eds - I don't think it was a terrible thing you did, but in the same situation I would have put it back on freecycle first.

I'm not sure I can explain it very well but, to me, it feels wrong to make money out of other people's generosity. Mind you, if it was a large thing and she couldn't be arsed to put it on eBay and you took said 'big thing' away saving her the hassle, then I suppose it's not all bad... confuses self.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Wed 07-Nov-12 19:30:06

It is still definitely wrong IMO to 'grab' everything possible off of freecycle with the sole purpose of selling it on.

TheMonster Wed 07-Nov-12 19:38:14

Ed, I think what you did was wrong and you should have put it back on freecycle.
Chaos, my instinct tells me that buying from an outet and re-selling is wrong.

fergoose Wed 07-Nov-12 19:49:58

buying to sell on isn't unethical, surely that is what all businesses do don't they? - but if you are buying to sell then you need to register with hmrc and as a business with ebay

Mirage Wed 07-Nov-12 20:51:31

But if the charity shop sells an item for,say £6,and the person then sells it on ebay for more,the charity shop hasn't lost out,they've gotten their £6,which they'd still have got if it hadn't been sold to a 'dealer',but to anyone else.Most charity shops are too savvy now to put potentially valuable stuff on the shop floor at a regular price,so if anyone can find a bargain and make a profit,good luck to them.

naturalbaby Wed 07-Nov-12 20:53:58

supply and demand - if you can get hold of the supplies and put them where other people can buy them then why not?
I'm always a bit hmm about the overpriced Ikea items on ebay.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Wed 07-Nov-12 20:58:20

Mirage - but it stops the person who needs the item buying it at a reduced price.

See, that's what I thought about charity shops too, Mirage.

But MN enlightened me - they are also a great resource for those struggling to find reasonably priced stuff.

So I'd kinda extrapolated thinking to outlet stores, but was onfusing myself. Hence the post.

I think from an economic pov, the retailers are getting what they are content with as an income, so I reckoned it was FairGane. But then wibbled.

urgh.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Wed 07-Nov-12 21:25:38

Chaos - it's hard isn't it?! I know I said before that it wasn't unethical and I still think that and I think if it's just a few bits then it's 'ok', On the other hand I don't think it's on for people to swoop in and clear the place out because it stops lots of other people from getting a bargain, something for themselves or presents they couldn't otherwise afford.

Much better to get something direct from a supplier if you can.

SolidGoldYESBROKEMYSPACEBAR Wed 07-Nov-12 21:42:06

It's not unethical at all. Once you have bought something it is yours to do with as you will; sell it, keep it, set fire to it or shove it up your arse.

It would only be unethical to lie to someone about how much the item they are selling you is worth ie telling them that a silver bracelet is plate, not solid, when the reverse is true.

Mirage Wed 07-Nov-12 22:24:17

But another person who can't afford to buy new could also buy it,thus depriving someone else poor of it.Personally,I find charity shops too expensive anyway,and get most of our stuff from car boot sales.It is 50p to £1 for an item of clothing there,compared to a lot more in a charity shop.Plus some of them seem to have a very inflated view of the value of things,Oxfam vintage,for example,has just silly prices.

EdsRedeemingQualities Thu 08-Nov-12 07:29:14

Yes you're probably right, and that's why I feel bad about it all these years later.

I do think it's a bit of a grey area, and yes, it was a large-ish heavy thing and I did come and take it away.

I have trouble with freecycle, it is full of ethical problems and such, and confuses the hell out of me. I don't belong any more.

But what I was trying to say is if I'd gone and got this thing deliberately intending to sell it on, that would definitely have been wrong. iyswim? But I didn't.

I can't remember but I don't think she had many people wanting it in the first place so it might have been pointless putting it back on. It was ages and ages ago.

<has the guilt>

I do think the intent in your scenario matters, Eds.

I think you shouldn't berate yourslef.

smile

SolidGoldYESBROKEMYSPACEBAR Thu 08-Nov-12 10:58:38

Look, people put things on Freecycle because they want to be rid of them. Either they CBA to put the thing on Ebay or whatever, or they've tried it once already and for whatever reason it hasn't been bought. If they were that bothered about where the thing went to and tightarsed enough to want to prevent anyone making a profit, they'd give it to a friend or a charity.

PostBellumBugsy Thu 08-Nov-12 15:40:08

Lord Eds, I don't think what you did was wrong.

It was your possession & you sold it. It doesn't matter where it came from originally.

I get given things I don't like & I sell them on ebay - I was given them for free, but I'm not going to sell them for free! I've bought items that I genuinely thought I wanted & they haven't been right or I have hardly worn them & for some random reason they've sold for more than I bought them for on ebay. I don't beat myself up about it. I didn't force anyone to buy what I sell on ebay - it is their choice.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Thu 08-Nov-12 16:17:31

SGB - I don't totally agree with you there. Lots of people put things on Freecycle because they don't need the money & are happy for someone else to have the use of something they no longer need - in other words, to help someone in need out - not for other people to make a profilt. It's absolutely not about being tight arsed, it's about helping people out. Giving it to charity still means the person who needs it has to pay out for it.

PBB - of course it's someone's choice to buy it or not on eBay, but people deliberately taking things 'for free' or cheaply from charity shops etc to make a profit on them is stopping people in need from benefitting from the charity of others. It's selfish, surely you can see that.

PostBellumBugsy Thu 08-Nov-12 17:07:21

Chipping - charity shops sell donated items to raise money for the charitable cause. Unless they are the salvation army, their purpose is NOT to sell stuff cheap for poor people. They should be selling stuff for the best price they can get, so that they raise money to meet their charitable objectives. If they are selling stuff too cheaply, that is their problem and the charity should be looking into it and wise up. (I should know, I work for a charity!)

There is nothing wrong with picking up something from Freecycle and selling it. It is the perogative of the owner of an item to give it away, and it is just as much the perogative of the new owner to sell it, if they think they can.

I can't see why giving something away is ok, but selling it isn't?

ChippingInLovesAutumn Thu 08-Nov-12 17:33:33

PBB - Selling donated stuff to raise funds is one aspect of a charity shop. Another is that they are a shop that sells second hand goods, which are (or should be!) cheaper than new. It allows people who can't afford 'new' to still buy clothing etc People that buy up large, simply to sell on, are being incredibly selfish and depriving people who can't afford new of those goods. These goods can often be sold for higher amounts in either other areas or on the internet, this does not mean the charity shop could achieve a higher price in that shop, in that location.

In YOUR opinion there is nothing wrong with picking something up from freecycle and selling it. In MINE there is.

Perogative is one thing, morals are an entirely different thing.

I can't see why giving something away is ok, but selling it isn't?

Because you are profiting from someone else's generosity, when someone who needs the item is losing out. How can you not see that?

PostBellumBugsy Fri 09-Nov-12 08:53:00

I'm sorry Chipping, but you are wrong about charity shops. Charities are failing the cause they are raising money for, if they are not maximising fund-raising opportunities. Charities should not be selling donated goods cheap for those who can't afford new stuff - unless they are the Salvation Army or a similar type of charity and that is their charitable purpose.

Nowadays, it is often cheaper it is often to buy goods new anyway. You are more likely to get stuff in Primark or Asda for less than you would second hand.

Lots of people Freecycle because they can't be bothered to take stuff to the tip or sell it on ebay/gumtree. It is not because they genuinely want their goods to go to those in need. Are you suggesting that there should be a vetting process for those who want to pick up Freecycle stuff? Only the "needy" may pick it up? What if a needy person gets something on Freecycle and decides to sell it on? Where does that sit in your moral compass? Is that ok, where it might not be for a comfortably off person or heaven forbid a wealthy person?

SolidGoldYESBROKEMYSPACEBAR Fri 09-Nov-12 09:45:10

Yes, don't forget that reselling on ebay is something poor people do, so they can buy food/pay their bills. And the thing with selling on Ebay is that it's hardly a matter of guaranteed riches: the item might not sell, the buyer might rip you off (as often happens), there are Ebay fees to pay and postage charges can sometimes be higher than expected.

MorrisZapp Fri 09-Nov-12 09:55:41

No way is it unethical, although when the Guardian money section addressed the issue you could smell the burning lentils on their feedback page. Meanwhile, here in the real world:

People in need can buy goods from primark etc, brand new.

They can also buy them from charity shops, the ones round here are very well stocked.

They can resell stuff too.

I sometimes buy stuff for myself in charity shops, without trying on. I think, if it doesn't fit, it'll go well on eBay. I've yet to make a tidy profit though. Usually the item 'wipes it's face', as they say on Bargain Hunt. So it's more just covering my costs.

Mirage Fri 09-Nov-12 09:57:07

Yes,a dealer has to make a profit.So if there is a 99p Boden t shirt in a charity shop,a 'poor' person might want to buy it,and also,so may the 'dealer',however,the dealer has to make a profit,she will have to pay listing fees,FVF,Paypal fees,package it up and take it to the PO.Unless it is a super fabulous item in perfect condition and a designer name to boot,there is no money in doing this,and if anyone can turn a profit doing this,I say good luck to them.

Trills Fri 09-Nov-12 09:57:08

Nope.

If you buy an item from someone for the amount they ask for it.

Then sell it to someone for an amount they are prepared to pay for it.

And there is no deception involved in these transactions (e.g. "that's just an old chair" to the first then "it's an antique chippendale" to the second)

Then what's unethical there?

MorrisZapp Fri 09-Nov-12 10:04:31

Maybe twice in my life I've felt guilty at getting ridiculous bargain when it has clearly been underpriced by charity shop staff. I've vocalised it, only for embarrassment and awkwardness to ensue.

Conversely, charity shops still labour under the myth of Next. They think its an aspirational brand, and overprice it wildly. Should we berate them for this, as they are stopping those in need from purchasing?

PostBellumBugsy Fri 09-Nov-12 10:14:05

Morris, it breaks my heart that charities lose so much money running charity shops. For many of them, the only reason they do it, is to ensure a "presence" on the high street to raise their profile. More often than not, unless they can get rates & rental covered by donors, they make a thumping loss on shops. Also most charity shops are run by volunteers, many of whom are not particularly savvy about the price of 2nd hand items on online retailers like ebay. So, they don't know that Fenn Wright Manson clothes should be priced higher than Matalan. Most charities would be far better off ebaying, as they wouldn't have to cover the shop overheads.

MorrisZapp Fri 09-Nov-12 10:44:23

Almost all the charity shops round here are run like chain stores, ie cancer research etc which price clothes very high. The stuff comes in priced already, and the people doing the pricing know the value of most brands.

If the charity shops didn't exist then the stuff would be sold on somehow, in a modern version of the rag and bone man.

I didn't know that charity shops lost money. Why do they need a high street presence? The most popular charities in wills etc are often animal charities, and I don't see many of them with high street presence.

I'm sure my mum told me once that guide dogs for the blind had vastly more money than it could possibly spend on guide dogs. This may be total guff of course.

ontheedgeofwhatever Fri 09-Nov-12 10:53:14

I got something for DD on the clearance rail of TK Maxx. It was £3 and thought she'd like it for dressing up

She took against it and refused to even put it in her dressing up box (ice skating dress). I put it on ebay and it went for £23.

Does that make me unethical? Should I have taken it back so someone else could buy it?

pantaloons Fri 09-Nov-12 11:00:47

A mum at school sells Lego on ebay and Amazon. She buys it on 3 for 2 or gets sets on sale and even buys it at full price, she then waits for Christmas and sells it at upto 4 times the rrp to desperate parents when everyone else sells out.

She makes enough profit to be vat registered. Some might say what she does is greedy or wrong, but on the other hand if someone is willing to pay there will always be someone willing to sell!

MorrisZapp Fri 09-Nov-12 11:02:22

Or buying two items from Clinique and ebaying the bonus set.

To me, that's resourceful.

OddBoots Fri 09-Nov-12 11:07:40

I don't see it as a problem at all from an outlet as long as you pay the correct taxes on it. It's only like buying from a wholesalers.

I also think it is fine from freecycle provided you have made your intention clear when you email to say you would like the item. Likewise if it was a free pass-on from a friend or family you should ask first.

I don't think you should from a charity shop for the reasons already given on here.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Fri 09-Nov-12 11:14:07

Pantaloons - I think that what she is doing is wrong. She is creating an artificial 'shortage' then increasing the price & releasing the supply. She is stopping others from benefitting from the 'sale' price or even the regular retail price - it is selfish. Very selfish.

OnTheEdge - IMO there's nothing wrong with that. TK Max (retail outlet) sold it for the price they were happy with, you bought it in good faith for your DD, when it turned out not to be suitable you sold it on to recoup the money you spent on it, it went for far more than you expected, but it wasn't 'profit by design'. I would probably have given it to a friend or a charity shop, but there's NOTHING wrong with attempting to get back the money you spent on it.

PostBellumBugsy Fri 09-Nov-12 12:40:33

Morris, your Mum is right Guide Dogs for The Blind have huge reserves.

Chipping - how can one woman be creating an artificial shortage of Lego? Seriously? Lego is a global distributer. Unless this woman is hugely wealthy & can afford to stockpile vast quantities of lego in a warehouse somewhere, how can she possibly be creating a shortage? She is just seeing a selling opportunity for last minute shoppers. It has nothing to do with selfishness, it is being a smart business woman (if she manages to sell it all at a profit).

Also, why is it ok to sell something on that you bought "in good faith"? What does that mean? It is great that you are in a position to just give away your unwanted stuff to a friend or charity shop - but not everyone shares that good fortune. Surely you can see that it is perfectly valid to sell your own property (as long as you came by it legally)!

pantaloons Fri 09-Nov-12 12:48:57

Chipping - I have to admit I'm slightly torn between good on you for getting up and supporting your family and then Christ what a bloody cheek, how wrong!

She makes a massive outlay money wise and takes a gamble on what might be popular and I suppose this takes a certain amount of nerve (and sheer luck!) However, retailers are getting wiser to this sort of buying and have started putting buying limits in place more often on offers. Not just per shop online, but going back in time to previous orders (according to her).

ChippingInLovesAutumn Fri 09-Nov-12 12:56:33

PBB - of course she's not creating a global shortage of lego <eye roll> but she is making enough from it to need to be registered for VAT, so it's not the odd set. She is clearly emptying out all of the local shops when they have a sale on & thus stopping other local parents from buying things at a reduced price. She is ripping off last minute shoppers. It is selfish - there is nothing 'smart' about being selfish.

I'm not sure if you are deliberately taking everything I say and twisting it, or if you just have issues with comprehension. 'In good faith' - you really need that explaining? Something she bought believing it to be of use to her (or her family) and not with the intention of re-selling. Did you miss this entirely?? there's NOTHING wrong with attempting to get back the money you spent on it.

Charity shops priority has to be selling donated goods to make a profit for their charity.

The charity aspect is not selling cheap clothes to people in need.

Chipping should people who are wealthy or even not 'in need' not be able to by clothes from charity shops then? Surely charity shops would fail completely if that were the case?

Buying a designer shirt from a charity shop and selling for a profit on ebay creates a great source of income for charity shops - regular trade, increasing the shops turnover and profits - fulfilling their purpose.

Also someone really in need will more likely be just as well served with the 2nd hand M&S Shirt for £3 as the £9 designer shirt. Unless they really WANT a designer shirt at x 3 the price of the excellent M&S shirt, and then, are they REALLY in need to the extend that others should be prevented from shopping there?

I think the argument against people buying from charity shops and selling on fails at every level. Ethically, the charity shop wants a high turnover to make the biggest profit for their charity. Their goal is not primarily to clothe the poor (certainly not in West London where charity shops are rather pricey) and IF it was, then I think they would fail in all their goals.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Fri 09-Nov-12 13:00:23

Pantaloons I can see why you are a bit torn, but to be honest, there's no need to be. She could get products from a wholesaler and do it without taking it from others who would like to benefit from the sales as well. I'm pleased that they are at least trying to clamp down on this kind of selfish behaviour, but it wont be easy as people will just get others to buy it for them.

PostBellumBugsy Fri 09-Nov-12 13:10:30

Chipping, I'm not trying to twist what you say, I just find your logic flawed.

I think if a person has a possesion that they have come to own legally, then it is up to them what they do with that. They can give it to friends, freecycle it, take it to the tip or they can sell it. I don't see how you can start to apply a moral code to the disposal of possessions.

To register for VAT, a business has to be turning over £77k. I'm amazed that one woman can be doing this just on BOGOF lego - as that is a turnover of over £6k of lego a month! But hey, good on her if she can. She is buying stock that other retailers are prepared to discount & finding a market to sell it on at a higher price. At the end of the day, the buyer determines what she will get for it.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Fri 09-Nov-12 13:11:48

HipHop

Charity shops priority has to be selling donated goods to make a profit for their charity - I never disputed this.

The charity aspect is not selling cheap clothes to people in need I disagree, there are plenty of people who rely on charity shops to get better quality clothing than they can't afford to pay full price for. Not everyone wants to waste money on primark crap.

Chipping should people who are wealthy or even not 'in need' not be able to by clothes from charity shops then? Surely charity shops would fail completely if that were the case? Where did I say that? I didn't.

Buying a designer shirt from a charity shop and selling for a profit on ebay creates a great source of income for charity shops - regular trade, increasing the shops turnover and profits - fulfilling their purpose - Draining the shops of quality clothing, taking it from people who need it (you know, those people who need smart clothes for work but can't afford full price) to make a profit. Nice. Not.

Also someone really in need will more likely be just as well served with the 2nd hand M&S Shirt for £3 as the £9 designer shirt. Unless they really WANT a designer shirt at x 3 the price of the excellent M&S shirt, and then, are they REALLY in need to the extend that others should be prevented from shopping there? Not from 'shopping' there no, but from stripping it to make a profit, yes.

I think the argument against people buying from charity shops and selling on fails at every level. Ethically, the charity shop wants a high turnover to make the biggest profit for their charity. Their goal is not primarily to clothe the poor (certainly not in West London where charity shops are rather pricey) and IF it was, then I think they would fail in all their goals maybe they do fail in their goal and maybe that's due to people skimming.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Fri 09-Nov-12 13:16:16

PBB - It is not about 'selling your own property', it's about aquiring things to sell in a selfish manner.

autumnfrost Fri 09-Nov-12 13:23:41

From experience working in charity shops I would say the people most in need would never go near a charity shop and it is in fact more well heeled people who keep them going

PostBellumBugsy Fri 09-Nov-12 13:26:30

Everything I buy is bought for selfish reasons!!!!! I buy stuff for me, my family or as gifts to give to other people. So everything I buy is purchased from a selfish perspective.

Who the hell buys altruistically?

Also who sells altruistically? The only disposal of purchase that is altruistic is to give it away for free.

Also, what does it matter what your motivation for purchase was? Once you own the item, you can do what you want with it.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Fri 09-Nov-12 13:57:24

PBB - I think you need to buy some Rescue Remedy. Then perhaphs try reading what I wrote, not what you imagine I wrote. You don't have to agree with me, but it's most frustrating when you keep ranting about things I didn't say.

PostBellumBugsy Fri 09-Nov-12 14:01:38

Chipping, I am not ranting & I don't need Rescue Remedy.

I am simply bewildered by your arguments. They don't make sense to me. I asked some questions - but you haven't answered.

I'm not going to insult you by making recommendations for what medicine you should take, or make a personal comment about your posting style either - but perhaps you might like to answer my questions:

1. Who buys altruistically?
2. Who sells alturistically?

Maybe then I will gain more understanding as to how you can differentiate between those who buy things & those who buy things to sell in a selfish manner.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Fri 09-Nov-12 14:16:46

PBB - Alturistically buying or selling has nothing to do with this. There is nothing to answer.

Buying things to use (to use yourself, for your family or for a gift) is one thing, buying things to sell on is quite another. Buying things from charity shops, when on a 2 for 1 offer or when in any other sale, with the sole purpose of selling it on, to me is selfish and is depriving others of benefitting from the sale price.

I don't see how that is at all complicated to understand, even if you don't agree with it.

Chipping I just can't see how "wealthy" people shopping in charity stores is any different from people buying from charity stores and selling on ebay, if you believe the purpose of charity stores is to be providing cheap clothes for people in need.

By your logic, both these "non-worthy of charity" customers will be depriving the needy of the potential opportunity to buy an item. (which I think is total rubbish BTW)

Why is one of these OK with you, but the other isn't?

What about the recycling aspect - surely as long as the clothes are being reused, regardless of who is reusing them, the planet will be a happier place?

ChippingInLovesAutumn Fri 09-Nov-12 14:27:06

HipHop - if someone 'wealthy' thinks they are doing the planet a favour by buying second hand, or wants to save money or even just takes a fancy to a particular item, then fine - why shouldn't they buy it?? No matter what your finances look like I think it's wrong to buy from a charity shop simply to make a profit from it.

This is a million miles away from what Chaos asked - much like Chaos herself grin

ah well we disagree.

Personally I think the higher the turnover of goods in a charity shops the better the system works for EVERYONE who shops there, and it's certainly what is best for the charity shop system as a whole.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Fri 09-Nov-12 14:33:57

smile we do seem to, though not entirely - got to run as it's time for the beloved school run!

PostBellumBugsy Fri 09-Nov-12 14:47:40

Oh Chipping - your arguments are complicated to understand because they don't make sense. I wouldn't keep asking if I understood - but I don't.

You keep talking about selfishness, when it comes to buying goods. Buying things from charity shops, when on a 2 for 1 offer or when in any other sale, with the sole purpose of selling it on, to me is selfish and is depriving others of benefitting from the sale price.

In a capitalist, consumer society our economy is driven by buying & selling items.

Do you think that buying a property to rent to someone else is selfish? Is that only if you are a private individual or if you are a housing association or local authority?

Is it selfish for companies or individuals to buy goods cheaply and then sell them for more money in their shop? This is afterall what all consumer goods businesses do - be they individuals or companies.

In this capitalist society, how can you isolate some individuals as being selfish because they buy and sell - but not others? Either the whole system is wrong (which it would be perfectly acceptable to argue) or it isn't.

I disagree that people rely on charity shops to get better quality clothing. ^ there are plenty of people who rely on charity shops to get better quality clothing than they can't afford to pay full price for. Not everyone wants to waste money on primark crap.^ You can buy perfectly decent clothing at low prices from retailers like Primark, Asda, Matalan & Peacocks. It is all very well for you to dismiss items purchased at Primark, as "crap" but I think you will find that a great many people would disagree with you & would be offended that you refer to their clothes as crap. Also, why is someone wasting money buying clothes in Primark, rather than a charity shop?

SolidGoldYESBROKEMYSPACEBAR Fri 09-Nov-12 14:58:21

It's the sort of 'economics' you get from whiny teenagers, really: 'Oh Nooooo, maan, making money out of anything is like really wrooooong!'

MorrisZapp Fri 09-Nov-12 15:15:07

Chipping, you're talking nonsense <daddy pig voice>.

I don't get how it is possible to 'strip' a shop - charity or otherwise.

They don't want the stock there to look at and play with. It's there for one reason - to be sold. If it all gets sold in one massive transaction to one wealthy oil baron who wants to use the stuff to throw on his kids' bonfire then it's job done for the shop.

They have no interest in what happens to the stuff once it's paid for.

And if it's selfish to buy stuff to sell on becuase that means the needy miss out, then it must logically be selfish to buy stuff you don't need, becuase the needy miss out equally on that stuff.

Have you ever seen the back shop in a charity shop? They are clothing mountains. The needy will always have access to second hand clothing.

Woash.

<<picks up worms>>

naturalbaby Sat 10-Nov-12 19:36:14

There was a mum on MN the other day complaining that Tesco had no Mr Tumble toys left in their toy sale, yet low and behold there were loads of them on ebay priced well above the Tesco price.

I wouldn't have the guts to buy a load of stuff to sell on at a higher price because I wouldn't want to be stuck with a load of stuff I don't want and can't sell. If you have enough know how to be able to do it then good luck to you.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Sat 10-Nov-12 19:42:17

There was a mum on MN the other day complaining that Tesco had no Mr Tumble toys left in their toy sale, yet low and behold there were loads of them on ebay priced well above the Tesco price

My point, exactly. Selfish people deprive others of 'a good deal' it is incredibly selfish and I don't understand why people on this thread think it's 'OK'?

ChippingInLovesAutumn Sat 10-Nov-12 19:42:39

Chaos - you're a bloody trouble maker!!

grin

ChippingInLovesAutumn Sat 10-Nov-12 19:55:50

PBB

Oh Chipping - your arguments are complicated to understand because they don't make sense. I wouldn't keep asking if I understood - but I don't Just because you don't understand doesn't mean they don't make sense hmm I'm sorry, I'm not sure how to make it any clearer to you.

In a capitalist, consumer society our economy is driven by buying & selling items - Yes, from suppliers to retailers to consumers - not consumers to consumers.

Do you think that buying a property to rent to someone else is selfish? Is that only if you are a private individual or if you are a housing association or local authority? If someone with LOTS of money swooped in and bought all of the houses in an area, so that no-one else could buy - only rent from them - then yes.

Is it selfish for companies or individuals to buy goods cheaply and then sell them for more money in their shop? This is afterall what all consumer goods businesses do - be they individuals or companies Not if they are buying them from suppliers. If individuals are buying from retails and re-selling (as in Tesco above) then yes.

In this capitalist society, how can you isolate some individuals as being selfish because they buy and sell - but not others? Either the whole system is wrong (which it would be perfectly acceptable to argue) or it isn't No, not at all. See above.

I disagree that people rely on charity shops to get better quality clothing Fine, you are entitled to your opinion as I am mine.

You can buy perfectly decent clothing at low prices from retailers like Primark, Asda, Matalan & Peacocks. It is all very well for you to dismiss items purchased at Primark, as "crap" but I think you will find that a great many people would disagree with you & would be offended that you refer to their clothes as crap. Also, why is someone wasting money buying clothes in Primark, rather than a charity shop? People can be as offended as they like, I defy anyone to say - with a straight face - that Primark is quality clothing. It is low quality clothing, at a low price. Nothing wrong with that (well, there's lots wrong with it actually - but not in the context of this discussion). My jeans & my coat are from Matalan - I don't expect either to last as long as I would expect quality clothing to last - it is pretty 'crap' quality. Fact not judgement.

naturalbaby Sat 10-Nov-12 20:06:14

The world is full of selfish people - they see an opportunity to make money and they take it. In part they are enterprising but it's hardly a crime to buy and sell - obviously there are limits but there are always grey areas. How can you stop them buying discount goods and selling them at an inflated price when the demand is higher? You can't.

If someone more savvy and organised than you buys the last Lego special edition whatever then how is that a crime? Toys sell out, tickets sell out, ....... we're all shortchanged in dozens of ways every day.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Sat 10-Nov-12 20:07:58

Morris

Chipping, you're talking nonsense <daddy pig voice> OK - as long as you also snort and fall to the ground! grin

I don't get how it is possible to 'strip' a shop - charity or otherwise Really - see the Tesco example above.

They don't want the stock there to look at and play with. It's there for one reason - to be sold. If it all gets sold in one massive transaction to one wealthy oil baron who wants to use the stuff to throw on his kids' bonfire then it's job done for the shop No, it's not. The shop doesn't want this (see how Tesco/Sainsburys is trying to stop it) they want the good will of LOTS of their customers getting a bargain not one selfish git and other consumers don't want that as they want a bargain as well.

They have no interest in what happens to the stuff once it's paid for Yes they do, see above.

And if it's selfish to buy stuff to sell on becuase that means the needy miss out, then it must logically be selfish to buy stuff you don't need, becuase the needy miss out equally on that stuff If the stuff is 'on sale' or in a charity shop, if you buy it and don't use it - then of course it's pretty selfish. Why would you stockpile something with no intention of using it?

Have you ever seen the back shop in a charity shop? They are clothing mountains. The needy will always have access to second hand clothing There's lots of clothing, but maybe not in the size/colour (or whatever) that the next person needs. Buying it to sell on, to me, is just ripping off both the charity and the person that needs it at a good price.

However, we have very much gone off track. My main point was that I don't think it's right to buy things that are on sale, depriving others of them at sale price - simply to sell on and Tesco & Sainsbury's agree with me, even if you lot don't grin ahem, not sure that's a good thing, but hey ho

ChippingInLovesAutumn Sat 10-Nov-12 20:12:08

NB

If someone more savvy and organised than you buys the last Lego special edition whatever then how is that a crime? Toys sell out, tickets sell out, ....... we're all shortchanged in dozens of ways every day

To me, it has nothing to do with being savvy and organised - nothing at all. Any of us (with a little cash) could go into T or S in the half price sales and get trolley loads of lego etc... nothing at all clever about that, just bloody selfish. Toys sell out, tickets sell out - because selfish people want to make profit from it instead of just buying what they need for their own use. Just because something happens a lot, it doesn't make it right.

naturalbaby Sat 10-Nov-12 20:22:57

People want to make money and make a profit - we all do! They just see opportunities where others don't. Of course it's not right but you can't really stop them buying toys. Although Sainsburys did have a limit on their sale toys when we bought them.

MummyBarrow Sat 10-Nov-12 20:25:34

What do you think people with market stalls are doing? Buying from the cash and carry and selling it on.

Of course you can do the same via eBay but you will need to declare your earnings.

As for Freecycle, that should not be used for profit

ChippingInLovesAutumn Sat 10-Nov-12 20:33:38

NB - They just see opportunities where others don't Not true. Many of us see the 'opportunity' we just have morals. Of course it's not right No, it's not.

MB - Cash & Carry is entirely different. It is a supplier - it's what they DO.

naturalbaby Sat 10-Nov-12 20:45:55

we have morals. Well there you are! Of course we have morals, we all have different limits and some obviously see nothing wrong with buying extra of something they know will make them a profit on places like ebay.

I'm sure it's not all plain sailing and good profits - they take the risks as well as the added income.

Speaking as a Freecycle moderator, I have no problem with people taking stuff and then selling it on - the aim of Freecycle is to keep items out of landfill, and so long as they're not burying it in their back garden, taking an offered item for whatever reason is fine with me.

PiedWagtail Thu 15-Nov-12 23:28:24

The only problem with that is from a tax point of view - if you are selling your own personal usd items then that's fine. if you are deliberately buying itemsd to sell on then you need to keep track of what you buy and sell, your profit etc, and fill in a tax return! HMRC can give you more info.

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