Advice please, o wise women of MN! An ebay AIBU!

[Cornucopia]

(Caveat: I have NC for this - sorry, but suspect the other party might also be a MNer and don't want to out myself...)

I only sell occasional items on ebay but am very careful with my listings, posts etc.

We recently sold a used childrens micro-scooter on ebay: dh did the photo and listing as I was busy that weekend. He doesn't really do social media etc so it was just one (clear) photo and a very brief listing. I added a little bit of info to the listing, but thought the photo was fine and it was clearly marked as used so left it as it was. Didn't check the scooter: it's not been used for the past year since dd1 outgrew it, but was fine then, and dh had cleaned it up and made sure it was ok before he did the listing.

It's been kept inside, so plenty of scuff marks but no rust etc.

It sold for under £30 (fairly normal); the buyer paid promptly and chose to collect (we were happy to post or allow pickup). She forgot to come the first time, but eventually turned up fairly late Sunday evening. I handed over the scooter on the front step (was in my pjs), had a nice little chat, and asked her to give me nice feedback.

About 2 hours later I got an email via ebay complaining about a crack in the plastic somewhere on the scooter, grumbling about my listing and asking for a discount. I immediately offered a full refund if she can drop the scooter back, or suggested she sent photos: I was horrified as it had been sitting in my living room for weeks and I hadn't spotted anything (I would definitely have noticed a big crack).

Now she's saying it's not so bad, and she can glue it: apparently she's just concerned that if it breaks it might leave a sharp corner her dc might scrape themselves on. What she wants is a discount.

I've asked again for photos and repeated the offer for a full refund. She's made it clear she wants a 'goodwill discount' rather than a refund.

AIBU that my alarm bells are ringing over this? I don't mind knocking a few quid off, but if the damage is really bad then of course no-one would want their child using it; if it's really just a hairline crack somewhere not very important then the item was clearly marked as used for a number of years, and that's the sort of wear and tear you would expect when buying a £90 item for under £30, surely?

What to do next? Thanks :)

[DiDiddlyIDi]

Insist she sends photos. Whenever I have wanted a goodwill discount I've always supplemented my inquiry with photos clearly showing the damage. Some people try it on but some people have good reason, please try to insist you see evidence. Good luck

[Cornucopia]

Thanks. Her first post-collection message was quite cross and I've tried really hard to keep the tone of engagement positive and friendly.

Of course I'm upset if I've not listed something clearly - would obviously not have done that on purpose, and was a bit upset that she was suggesting I might have done. Equally, she's been very resistant to the suggestion of a refund (and I know she lives very close by) - I suspect that she knows she got this at a really good price, plus she didn't have to pay postage or travel far to collect, which wouldn't be guaranteed if she had to start again.

sigh.

If it sold for £28 how much should I refund if there is minor damage? I could post pics on here when I get them, I suppose.

If the damage is really minor, I'd actually prefer to get it back, relist with full details and try again. Can't really be bothered to haggle over a few pounds. And I suspect she's going to want more than £3 off the price!

[BaronessEllaSaturday]

There is nothing wrong with the scooter she is trying it on and just wants to pay less for it. keep reiterating full refund on return or nothing.

[EldonAve]

Did you take cash on collection?

[Cornucopia]

Out of curiosity - what's the normal etiquette? If we do a refund/return, would it be normal to expect her to deliver it back to me (as I suggested) or do I need to go and collect it?

I've got 100% perfect feedback to date, so don't want to let this mess that up....

[Cornucopia]

Paid via paypal online, then got in touch to arrange pickup.

[EldonAve]

I would stick with return for full refund
She had a chance to inspect it when she picked up

However you have left yourself wide open accepting paypal for collection
She can claim she never received it & get all her money back as you can't prove delivery

[Cornucopia]

Gosh, I didn't know that. I'm not sure she can claim she hasn't received it though, as there's a chain of ebay messages (on their mail system) from her telling me that she took it home and noticed a problem with it. She even said 'I know I should have inspected it on collection' (to be fair, it was dark, raining and because it was late and I was in my pjs we stood under the porch instead of her coming inside) - so it's pretty clear she did receive it this time.

How do you avoid someone paying by paypal if there's a choice between paypal plus delivery and cash on collection?

[Cornucopia]

OK...I have photos. Opinions welcome!

[Floralnomad]

I would insist she returns it for a refund ( is it far if you have to collect ?) .

[Cherryapple1]

ok - well most sellers will never offer a partial refund, return for full refund or nothing. Partial refunding is a minefield and again leaves you open to be scammed.

And just hope you don't get her claiming not received. Messages mean nothing, you have no online proof of delivery. You must never ever take paypal for a collected item. You are lucky so far you haven't been scammed. If however she does file not as described she will have to prove a return with online tracking before she gets her payment refunded by eBay.

[leeloo1]

Micro scooters always crack there. I'd offer £5 off or return for full refund.

[flowerygirl]

Just wondering, why shouldn't you take paypal as payment for a collected item? How would you be able to prove the person paid cash?

[Blazing88]

agree with others..never ever take paypal for a collection item!

Cash only!

[Cornucopia]

Thanks again - it's hugely reassuring that no-one has told me I was completely in the wrong

I think I understand why cash on collection is safer (I think...) but from a technical standpoint, how on earth do you stop someone paying by Paypal if you are selling an item with the option to either collect or have delivered? Its not as though I issued an invoice: the buyer paid within an hour or two of the auction ending.

I'm going to offer them £5 off (subject to first posting nice feedback) or a full refund. They live about 2 miles away, and I guess I could swing by and pick it up if they're not willing to drop it back. I agree that returns are normally the responsibility of the buyer, but if something was faulty then I guess the seller would cover the cost? So in this case, its the effort of going to pick it up and petrol costs, rather than postage, but probably worth dh or me popping over there one evening this week and collecting it in order to close this down?

Although...aaargh, another question - sorry! - if I wanted to convince ebay not to charge me, the refund would have to go through on Paypal, wouldn't it? In which case, I will need the scooter back first, then put through the refund and they will have to agree to that?

[BaronessEllaSaturday]

How would you be able to prove the person paid cash? You don't need to prove they paid cash, if they pay cash there is no one they can do a claim through to get the money back.

[EldonAve]

you need to refund via paypal

If someone pays paypal for a cash on collection item I think you msg them and then refund them.

[Cherryapple1]

why would you need to prove someone has paid cash?

Corn - you would refund their paypal and ask them to bring cash. And under no circumstances do you use feedback extortion. And no, the buyer would need to return tracked at their expense.

I wouldn't refund them anything until they returned (tracked) your item and you had checked your own security markings. How do you know they aren't sending pics of their own, old damaged scooter?

[Cornucopia]

oh dear :(

I'm going to have to do this on trust this time around. I don't have security markings: I can only compare the scooter with the photos we took when we put it on ebay 10 days ago.

I do think this lady is trying to pull a bit of a 'fast one' on the discount, but I don't think she's a professional scammer (we had a chat about our dcs, I know she's bought this because her 18mo ds won't leave her 3yo dd's scooter alone, for example) so I'm going to have to take it on trust that she doesn't just happen to have a very-slightly-more-beaten-up-than-ours micro scooter in exactly the same colour (and the same amount of mud since dhs cleanup efforts werent as good as I would have liked ) as ours.

Lots to think about for next time around - thank you.

So, if I've understood correctly I need to:

1. Contact ebay and let them know I will be getting item back and putting refund through.
   

1. Get item returned. Don't offer discount and definitely don't reference feedback. Discount must not be dependent on feedback.
   

1. Item should be returned by buyer, but it would be ok for me or dh to go and collect it if that's simpler.
   

1. Inspect item and make sure it is correct and no additional damage has appeared since it was sold.
   

1. Issue refund.
   

1. Re-list item with new photos including detail of cracked casing over wheel arch.

[Cherryapple1]

no - you don't need to contact eBay

tell buyer to return the scoter.

The buyer doesn't know you haven't got security markings on the item.

Tell buyer to return in the condition in which they collected it, once you have checked your security markings you will refund in full.

do not mention feedback in any dealings

after refund send cancellation request to get fvf refunded.

[Cornucopia]

OK.

Well, I've contacted the buyer and explained that I sold it in good faith and repeated the offer of a full refund once it is returned.

I have also asked what she had in mind by way of discount - to be honest, if it's only a few pounds I'd prefer to pay it and close this down than have to go through the hassle of listing it all over again and processing the refund. I know, I know...not ideal, but dh said it might be the easiest route. She has 100% positive feedback as a buyer, so I don't think this is a regular thing for her....

But I've definitely learnt a few really important ebay lessons. Fingers crossed I can get this sorted without getting burnt, but I will be waaaay more careful in future.

[Cherryapple1]

All buyers have 100% positive feedback if they only buy.

And giving her a partial refund does not guarantee you pos feedback. If she gets awkward tell her to open a case with eBay. Then she will need to return it tracked.

[tictactoad]

No, no. No partial refund. She will open a case and scam you for the rest. Insist she returns it so you can check it before issuing a refund.

If a buyer pays by paypal before collection always refund and insist on cash. They cannot open a case this way because Ebay will deem the item to have been checked and sold as seen.

[MissyMistress402]

Agree, insist she brings it back, if its as dangerous as she claims it to be, she won't want it around surely.

[Cornucopia]

I've been overruled by dh (it doesn't happen often!) and have offered a partial refund. She suggested £6 and I just don't have the energy to argue: got some really big stuff going on in my personal and work life right now, and it's just not enough to get stressed about.

I appreciate that this could all go horribly wrong if she tries to then claim she didn't receive it or something, but I just don't think she would have gone to this level of trouble for a sub £30 kids scooter.

So I think she's been pushing her luck a bit (yes) but not actually evil or regular 'bad' ebayer.

Or so I hope.

Obvs, when it all goes horribly wrong and I end up having to give her a full ebay refund as well as the 6 quid dh is going to transfer then I will come back on here and totally eat my words.

I think the really important thing, as I said before, is that I wont ever, ever make this mistake again. I promise!