I am moving out 'with' kids, how does it look to them.?

(69 Posts)
jenny99 Sat 23-Mar-13 06:55:06

After nearly 20 yrs of marriage I would like to separate. My husband is refusing to move out saying that he is happy here and legal advice tells him don't move out. I am a sahm (for the last 15 yrs).

Last night I said we have 3 options
He moves out and rents during 6 month trial separation (without kids but somewhere with plenty of space for them to stay etc)

I move out and rent (6 months again) with the kids.

We sell the house and buy 2 properties and go straight to divorce.

We 'decided' on 2nd option because he said he is happy in the house and refuses to move out and it is less irreversible than the third option should we change our minds.

But overnight I am thinking.....it will look to the kids like I am taking them away from their home and their daddy for a smaller home with probably very small garden (big football players!)...they will end up resenting me for it.

I think going straight to divorce seems to be the only option although seems crazy?!

What is anybody else's experience of this sort of thing please?

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 23-Mar-13 07:17:57

How old are your children?

nkf Sat 23-Mar-13 07:27:15

I'd keep the kids in their own place until they move to their next more permanent home.

Is go for c, even if you did reunite in the future, you could always remarry. Wouldn't have to have a do, just pop down the reg offfice.

But sounds like its def over, esp with his selfish attitude, he should wantthe kids to feel settled as possible.

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 23-Mar-13 07:51:34

It depends on so many different circumstances though, why you are leaving, the age of your children and how you intend to support them, what are their schooling needs...
Could you move out and leave them with him?

wannaBe Sat 23-Mar-13 08:05:55

depends on your access arrangements IMO. I've recently moved out with ds to a smaller house, with smaller garden, but we are parenting 50/50 so ds still has his garden at daddy's house where he can pretty much come and go as he pleases. Me and h basically explained it to him in so much as that he wasn't moving out, but that he was moving some of his things to my house and would now have two houses not just one.

Why are you separating? You shouldn't be thinking head straight for divorce purely because it means it'll mean selling the house and getting two houses, if you want a divorce get divorced. if you're not sure then have a trial separation and see how things work out.

jenny99 Sat 23-Mar-13 08:06:09

Ty for reading and taking the time to reply.

I have been unhappy for 2 years.

He doesn't want to split.

I want to be happy. I'm not even content right now. I want more for myself We only have one life etc. I just don't feel any emotional connection with him and don't find him attractive anymore. Feel like he is a friend not a lover etc. harsh I know but perhaps sadly we have just changed. I was 24 when we married.

Kids are 12 and 14.

If I move to a smaller place to rent with them it will paint the picture that mummy is unhappy so takes them away and moves house.
School etc wouldn't be affected. My husband earns a good salary and would be able to support us all financially.

I don't feel that I should move out and leave them with him. I am a sahm and he is out the house at work from 6.30am - 8.30pm. Surely it makes sense the kids stay with me. When we discussed 'custody' arrangements last night the solution we came up with is me having them 8 days in 14 and him 6. He was happy with that.

Just so confused. Yes it is me instigating it but how do we put it to the children? I don't want to be feeling he has me over a barrel and this will make me out to be the 'bad parent' that they are stuck with sad

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 23-Mar-13 08:11:02

I'd leave the children where they are and get an au pair/home help to support.
I've got a couple of friends whose wives died and that was their solution.
The ages they are, the children need to be able to make an active choice about what happens to them and where they will live.

jenny99 Sat 23-Mar-13 08:11:03

I feel a trial separation would be preferable but because he won't compromise on anything and will only accept the idea of me moving out makes me feel that we are heading for divorce. He keeps telling me he is desperate for us to work but he doesn't seem to want to compromise?

I like that idea of explaining it is just having some stuff in each home. Thank you for explaining that to me.

I am also upset because I was sort of starting to set up a business at home have recently trained in reflexology and he is pushing for me to do it. In our current house we have a room I can use and do use for it. If I rent a smaller temporary thing it won't have space probably. sad

I want to fast forward past this messy bit!

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 23-Mar-13 08:12:26

Is divorce your only solution? Your children are old enough for you to be able to develop interests and hobbies apart from them, or you could look for a job.

jenny99 Sat 23-Mar-13 08:13:18

I am terribly sorry to hear of the loss of your friends wives sad

But if my husband gets an au pair/ home help how does that make sense for me to be sat in a rental property whilst someone else is being paid to look after my children. I am not dead yet...0

jenny99 Sat 23-Mar-13 08:14:16

I would like to develop the reflexology into a full time thing. Obviously it could easily fit in around holidays etc especially if I am doing it from home.

Pendipidy Sat 23-Mar-13 08:15:19

Don't really on the fact that he Will support you. He should move out as the children should have stability, not him.

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 23-Mar-13 08:15:49

Many LLs won't let you run a business out of their rental either.
You sound bored and unfulfilled, perhaps you could look at making changes in your own life without necessarily moving out, look at being independent from your OH without removing the children.
What have you done for yourself in the 15 years of being a SAHP?

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 23-Mar-13 08:18:25

I'm just looking forward a couple of years when you could have two resentful and angry teenagers who feel that your unhappiness and dissatisfaction with the choices you made have impacted on them in a way that they didn't like or choose.
Do you want that?
Given a free choice, what would your children want, other than no change at all?

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 23-Mar-13 08:19:36

It makes sense because they don't get to have their lives thrown up into the air.
You can go off and find yourself, and they get stability.

jenny99 Sat 23-Mar-13 08:21:43

Interesting thank you about LL and running businesses. My first step I guess would be to start treating friends and then grow from there so probably wouldn't be a full on business.

I am not bored. I have loved being at home with them. My husband is a very high earner which has afforded us a lovely lifestyle and I value that. However I want to do more for myself now that both boys are at secondary school. Up till now I have had minimal help in the home and spend most of my time running them to and from school, Dealing with PTA issues and other such things, cooking, exercising, and recently studying.

When you suggest be independent without moving out do you mean try again with OH or just live under the same roof?

dingit Sat 23-Mar-13 08:21:52

You have dc and a marriage the same ages as mine ( I am a sahm too). Your post makes me feel really sad for you. Without stating the bleeding obvious, have you tried counselling? It's just you said you might change your mind. My DH works long hours too, and the day seems very tedious sometimes. Could you do something to make you happy outside the home, that might rekindle your feelings for you DH. Also spend some quality time together. It's heartbreaking for all to let go a 20 yr marriage. I really hope you can salvage it . Good luck x

jenny99 Sat 23-Mar-13 08:24:00

If I go off to 'find myself' surely that is no stability for them? Plus I think I am found.

Yes ISWYM about rolling forward 2 yrs.

My OH and I have discussed and agreed that the younger one would def want to be with me and the older one would be torn. Dad is fun, goes to football etc. Mum nags to wash hair and do homework etc. he wouldn't know what to do. But we both agree we want to try and present a united front.

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 23-Mar-13 08:24:46

I mean become a person whose place in life is not solely defined by your role as mother, homemaker and wife.
Until you are happy with yourself, there's little point in trying again with your OH IMO.
Personally, I'd stay put and work on me, or move out and leave the children where they are and work on me.

jenny99 Sat 23-Mar-13 08:26:20

We've been having counselling individually and together for over a year.

I feel very sad about it. But the thought of being with him for the rest of my life is not something that makes me smile to myself. It feels like a deadweight. I want to be happy and enjoy every precious day and I don't meant that to sound like I have rose tinted glasses but I feel we don't have any connection at all between us anymore. We are on such different wavelengths sad

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 23-Mar-13 08:31:11

It happens, I'm looking at 29 years of marriage this year, and we have two adult children.
I still think that you need to rediscover your own individuality. OH and I do things together as a couple, as a family, but we also have independent lives and hobbies that we do without each other. Our two children are very different, so sometimes two of us go off on an adventure that the other two wouldn't enjoy.
I think you are in a fortunate position of having several choices available.

jenny99 Sat 23-Mar-13 08:35:23

Thank you.

Congratulations on such a long marriage smile

Part of the problem is that due to his long working hours I have become totally independent of him and actually have a better time without him than with him! I do a lot without him with various groups of friends and I think that is part of what led to us growing apart.

I asked him for counselling 2.5 yrs ago and he refused for 8 months. During that time a lot changed for me and now it is a bit like he came too late to the party...

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 23-Mar-13 08:39:17

Do you need to physically leave the home to feel free?
Are you looking for another partner?
It's a huge step to take, but only you can know if it's the best solution.
I can understand why your OH doesn't want to leave his home, have you looked at the possible finances to see exactly what you'd be entitled to if you divorced and he decided to give you the minimum required in law?

fivefoottwowitheyesofblue Sat 23-Mar-13 08:46:21

I think if you are the one that wants to break up the family then you have to be prepared to take a bit of back lash from the DCs.

If it was your DH who wanted out of the marriage this whole thread would be full of 'his choice, he'll have to put up with smaller garden for the DCs'.

On the positive side your boys are old enough to understand, and I do think if you are unhappy and you feel strong enough then you should look to change yourlife in this way.

Good luck.

Xenia Sat 23-Mar-13 09:53:29

They are 12 and 14. They will be allowed to choose with whom they live. They will probably choose to stay in their own house. You will probably lose them. It is a pity you do not work. I was married nearly 20 years and my husband was also advised not to move out and as I could afford to buy his share of the house out (I paid to him on divorce as I earn more) and he could not after decree absolute and money transfers he moved out and house and mortgage moved to my sole name. As you were not working that removes that choice.

If he will stay in the house with the children then probably a court would say he can keep it until the youngest is 18 and then sell and split the proceeds or buy you out of your share. You will probably have more time if you move out so can get a full time job it the children choose to stay with him so you then be required to pay about 20% of your new income to him to pay for the children and his childcare costs. If you could not get a job and the children stay with him then he may well be required to pay you some monthly payments until you can get back into full time work.

jenny99 Sat 23-Mar-13 10:04:08

Luckily I don't have to worry financially. We have both had legal advice. He earns in excess of 300k and we own our home without a mortgage. and I have been advised as has he that he would have to pay child maintenance as well as spousal for ongoing period until I remarry etc. but that isn't my concern. My concern is more how to present this to the kids with least backlash/screwing up etc.

It's just so horrible and upsetting sad

Xenia Sat 23-Mar-13 10:13:05

If given a choice would the children stay in their home with him or move out with you though? Once they get to about 13 the courts let children decide with whom they live. They usually choose the status quo, their own house. I know a high earning man who waited to divorce until the children were 13 and 15. They chose to stay in the family home with him (mind you their mother had moved in with her lover even though her new house was bigger and better).

If the children choose to live with him he will not have to pay child maintenance to you but he will have to pay spousal maintenance to you until you can sort out a job - typically 5 years or until you remarry.

If he earns £300k why cannot he remortgage the house and give you 50% of the equity, stay in the house and the children live with him and you move out? Surely that plan also works which is a bit like our situation except with the genders reversed as I earn quite a bit and similar length of marriage and our solution.

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 23-Mar-13 10:13:40

Talk to your children.
You may have to compromise more than you want to.

RandomMess Sat 23-Mar-13 10:20:08

Seriously it sounds like you should start with divorce proceedings, I wonder if he is in denial that you are really intent on moving on with your life.

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 23-Mar-13 10:31:18

If the house is mortgage free, then Xenia's solution seems the most obvious, divorce, remortgage and you buy a home with your share.
You may or may not be the RP, depending on the choices your children make.

jenny99 Sat 23-Mar-13 12:44:09

If we present it to the kids in the way that we will have two homes now and they will live in both and have fun with us separately in both homes then do they still get asked or do they go with our decision if we are united on it. (We may not be united on it now but intend to present it to the kids when we are)

We have enough other assets/capital to buy another property without remortgaging etc so that isn't a concern.

Thank you for all comments. All useful x

Xenia Sat 23-Mar-13 16:41:37

If you both agree then the children should do as they are told. However it is common for 14 or 15 year olds who are not happy with an arrangement simply to run to the other parent and refuse to move out of their bed rooms when it's time to chop and change so they may not stick to it. Obviously if one parent is horrible or stricter or beats them or has 20 lovers then they may well cleave unto the other parent and refuse to have much to do with them.

Teenagers are not that keen on moving their stuff around which is why Bob Geldoff suggested it was more fair if children stayed in one house and parents came and went as it was the parents who had messed up the chidlren's lives so why should the children have to come and go - why not make the parents live out of a suitcase as it's the parents' fault.

In my case we both worked full time. They probably spent marginally more time with their father than with me. My lawyer said the older children would be asked (in their case there was noquestion they would want to live with their father at all so it was easy) and she said the younger ones who were too young to choose woudl not be split from the older ones. I would have been happy with 50% time with each parent and am a huge advocate for fathers' rights on divorce.

You should probably see a solicitor for an hour just to discuss how things work, but in many divorces like mine the parents decide money issues and children issues. If you reach agreement (we did) there does not need to be a single court hearing and as long as what is proposed seems reasonable the court just seals an agreement financial consent order and you have the voluntary child arrangements agreed between the two of you.

If I were a teenager I would not want to leave my home. If there were a massive bribe in it I might be prepared to be dragged out to my mother's new home for one night a week ifmotehr is lucky and as long as mother did all the driving and had me a second set of clothes and everything at the other house. However if my father were difficult or nasty or has a young new girl friend I hate I might well jump at the chance to move to mother's house.

jenny99 Sat 23-Mar-13 16:58:33

Hadn't heard that about bob geldof before. Interesting. Mind you, the thought of sharing space with OH ie kitchen etc and moving back to it when we swap sounds like it would create a lot of problems!

So the options are now....
Me move out and rent somewhere for a trial period, the kids would be with me 8 days in 14 and with their dad 6 days in 14 (we agreed on a basic arrangement for that)

Or

Just decide to divorce. But if we do that then surely it makes sense to move out whilst house hunting etc? Less arguing etc.

I think he is making a fuss about staying in the house because he knows it will win favour with the kids. Can I force a sale of the house so we both start again? (We own it with no mortgage and can afford another property too).

And if I move out to rent, when I come to buy what happens to possessions.....do I have to take anything I want to to the rental?

Thank you

Could mediation help? Start divorce proceedings but go to mediation to help find an agreement on housing and where the children live? Sometimes having that neutral person in the middle who allows you both to speak and listen can help a lot.

But as others say, at their age, they will choose where they want to live. So you could agree on housing and assets etc but the teenagers will have a say in where they want to be.

If you can bare it, I'd stay put for now and commence divorce proceedings tbh but I can only imagine how uncomfortable that may feel. But then it's less upheaval for now and you may reach a better agreement with mediation and it may give the kids longer to adjust to the fact you are going to separate. If you can manage to divorce amicable (I did, although it's unusual) that would be so helpful for the kids too.

Xenia Sat 23-Mar-13 17:28:12

jenny, very similar issues to us except my husband was the lower earner. He refused to budge from the house for the whole 7 months of divorce negotiations (I had to pay both sides' lawyers), through to decree nisi, court sealed consent order, decree absolute, conveyancing and remortgage - house transferred into my name, me with big new mortgage On the day after the money hit his bank account he moved out exactly as he and his lawyer had said. As I could afford to buy him out and he couldn't afford to buy me out I got the house and the children 3 of whom were teenagers. He got more money than I did but had to buy a mortgage free house near by.

I don't think you can force him to buy the house. You both might want to keep the house I suppose.
I suspect it is much more likely if your new place is as nice and easy for the children there is no reason they won't want to be with you particularly if they like a lot more of you and like you better than their father.

One basis on which I can see you might get the house is if it had to be sold to ensure you both had 50% each.As you don't you would have to agree who stays in it and who buys another property - let us assume both the current house and new house are identical values. If my husband had said he would not leave our house but he coudl not have afforded to raise my share (40%) of our assets then he would have had to leave. So if say your house is worth £500k and you have £500k in savings you would be fighting over who gets one asset worth £500k - the house and who has the cash to buy a similar house. If you could not agree which of you has it then ultimately it would have to go to a court to decide. If you move out there would be little chance you would get the existing house.

In terms of possessions in the house as they in our case were a tiny percentage cmopared to house value etc we did not really argue over them. Their father was buying another house and he could take whatever he wanted from here but he knew I was staying with the 5 children so he was not bothered about taking TVs etc as he was getting nearly £1m from me so could use that to buy kettles . I was surprised he wanted no family photos but even those things you can get duplicated. Some couples have terrible rows over who gets the painting and who takes the soup spoons but it's hardly worth arguing over in my view. In practice you need to reach an agreement about it.
If you ended up being the one leaving the family home it might be a bit sitting to take 50% of what is in the house as the children may still remain linving in it and you might want a fresh start.

Plenty of teenagers move between houses. I didn't mean to be so negative about whether they would choose to move between the homes or not.

If you do want to reserve things for yourself but leave them here when you go they should probably be on an agreed list signed by you and your husband. I was talking to someone divorced a few months ago and some of his family valuable heirlooms, paintings etc were to go to the children in due course. Later after divorce an auction house approached him about proving what they were and that way he learned his ex wife had breached the agreement and was planning to sell them so that was stopped.

jenny99 Sat 23-Mar-13 17:40:15

Thank you for all that. So much going around in my head. On the one hand I just want to be away from him but on the other as you say i should bear it.

Seems that financially / 'rights' wise it is more sensible to go straight to divorce?! That would end up having a fairer outcome.

He isn't interested in mediators. Only lawyers. I have tried. He has a huge income and huge shared assets so I guess he doesn't want me to fleece him - which I have no intention of doing.

Funny thing is, a divorce involving only solicitors (and possibly a judge if it gets that far) may mean he has less of a choice in what is decided, regarding the share of assets etc. He'll have a lot less control than if he just arranged it between the two of you with a neutral party and the divorce could end up costing far more.

It's a very tricky time. I was lucky that my ExH and I were able to be civil and discuss it all between us, the solicitors were a formality. We have managed to co parent since amicably as well.

If you can, do stay put for now but I know it's hard sad

RandomMess Sat 23-Mar-13 18:15:42

I think you well have to face that your children may not want to move out with you, you won't know for certain until it happens I'm afraid.

I wouldn't tell the children you are having a trial separation. I would just tell them you are getting divorced and that's it, it's just very unstable for them to be hoping all the time that you will get back together.

I also think it would be better for them not to have to make the decision about who they live with, they will just feel like they are taking sides. If you can agree between you it would be better all round. It would also be better if your H can avoid blaming you too much although obviously that's up to him.

Otherwise I think you moving out with them would be ok really. They will have plenty of opportunity for playing in the garden when they see their Dad and I'm sure they do sports at school etc, it's not the end of the world to downsize a bit. (Speaking someone whose Mother did something similar when I was younger)

MajaBiene Sat 23-Mar-13 18:32:32

I would leave the children in their home, and you move out for 6 months and see how you feel. Seems unfair to move them out.

Could you go round and be with them after school until their dad gets home from work? Or they go to your new place after school until he picks them up?

jenny99 Sat 23-Mar-13 18:38:06

H is happy to not point the blame in front of the kids.

So I guess I should stay put for now? And head for divorce.

Interesting idea about telling the kids we are divorcing rather than a trial...I had thought the other way softens the blow but this is an I retesting way of thinking about it.

We are going to try to not offer the choice. And tbh I think if we tell them they will stay with dad on such and such days and mum on such and such they will go with it. For now. I realise things may change but generally they are good kids who do what we tell them within reason. They haven't yet got to tha rebellious stage yet. I realise this may set it off too!!!!

The knock on effect on the kids is horrendous. But it isn't enough to make me not want to split.

All of your advice and input is v much appreciated thank you

The best book I read on divorce was 'what about the children'. That's definitely worth a read imo.

Sounds promising from what you've just said that you can both help this transition to be as smooth as possible for them.

jenny99 Sat 23-Mar-13 18:46:37

The youngest is always in bed by the time he is home from work. I don't want to feel like a nanny in his home....

That would entail me having to arrive to be with them from 6.30 ish am when he leaves for work until after one is in bed, and feed both then I go to wherever I rent. I know it is me who wants out but that seems not a great option.

H really won't consider going. Perhaps straight to divorce is the best thing?....how did I get here sad

I would just start divorce proceeding if you're sure. It will be hard but things do get better again. Wish I could give you a squeeze x

MajaBiene Sat 23-Mar-13 19:25:35

If he is refusing to go and expects you to move out, what is his plan for childcare? If he is faced with the prospect of you going and him having to employ a nanny and housekeeper in your place would he decide it's more practical for him to go?

If he really won't consider leaving then a divorce and forcing everyone out seems like the only option he is leaving you with.

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 23-Mar-13 19:30:28

'him having to employ a nanny and housekeeper in your place would he decide it's more practical for him to go?'

On £300,000 a year and no mortgage? he can probably cope!

jenny99 Sat 23-Mar-13 19:37:41

I would love a squeeze thank you.

He is threatening to give up work or to take compassionate leave. Tbh I can't see him doing either. And I have spoken to 3 lawyers who all say that I have been the main carer for 14 years so really it isn't in question that they should be with me.

I think it is now becoming clear that divorce is the only option. The realistic chances of us getting back together after a separation are minimal especially now therefore it seems I will have a better arrangement re my rights, the kids, etc if we take advice at this stage and move to divorce. If we have a very 'woolly' separation I'm not sure what happens after that.

Thank you all for your continuing input xx

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 23-Mar-13 20:04:57

Does your husband want the children to stay with him?
If they choose differently to the lawyers, will your husband support their choice?
Will you?
You have a very long journey ahead of you, so it's good that you are thinking calmly about it and planning ahead instead of reacting to situations and developments.
How do you think your children will feel about it in the long run?

Xenia Sun 24-Mar-13 10:03:08

I see you said earlier the younger children would choose to be with you even if he had to move to a smaller house and the older would feel torn. The longer you take the more likely the younger child will be older and end up preferring to stay at home.

If i were you I would tell the children, petition for divorce and try to ensure you get the house, not your husband. That way your children are more likely to stay. If you are fighting for a large % of the joint assets, a share of his business if he has a business, half his pension and say £100k maintenance for life plus support for the children and their school and university fees paid he might let you have the current house if you let go of some of those other claims.

There is no need for mediation if you both reach an agreement. We had none. We had lawyers but we reached the financial deal ourselves which the lawyers then wrote up. It took 7 rather awful months of stll living together

I think it's vital teenagers are told the truth and are very clear about everything. It does not help a child to have parents pretend they are trying to work on things but it may be they stay together. Much better to say mummy does not love daddy any more and wants to live apart so we have both agreed these new arrangements and these are what they are. Now they may say no way I am only going to live in one home and that is with my mother or with my father but you can at least try them and if one parent refusing to have the child then the chidl just to put up with what the parents have agreed or run away or live with a school friend (and plenty of teenagers do the latter).

And on work etc I worked full time and kept the 5 children here and paid a full time nanny. It is perfectly workable for the full time working parents to have the children with them
Your husband has threatened tos top work. Lots of men actually follow through with that to ensure their wife does not get a penny so do we cautious and perhaps look at ways of supporting yourself. It would be huge fun to see if you could out earn him next year. Aim for £500k a year. That might shake things up a bit. Put his £300k a year into the shade.

jenny99 Sun 24-Mar-13 11:56:23

Lol. How could I earn £500k?! I haven't worked for 15 yrs!!!

Would love to tho!

We have agreed on telling the children in April after school trip for eldest and since starting this thread I can see the benefit of being honest and not giving false hope and just saying we are divorcing. Otherwise I guess for months or longer the kids keep hoping we will reconcile

I think he wouldn't go through with stopping work because his parents hit the roof at that idea an his mum is very forceful. I also think that unfortunately that will be his only thing left and his 'identity'.

I think if we do what you suggest and say these are the new living arrangements the kids will go with it. They don't have any friends with divorced parents and they don't know that they can kick up a fuss. They do love both of us and to start with will probably do it at least.

The problem with me going for our current house is that OH knows that I hate living here. Have wanted to move for about 10 yrs and that is one of my issues. I don't want to move far just he knows I don't like being here. That could be a problem?!

I think if you're pragmatic about things and try to stick to facts not feelings as you start this process, nothing should hopefully be an issue.

Who knows what you may agree if you both handle this situation right.

I wish you lots of luck though. If you can both be civil it'll help the children enormously x

Xenia Sun 24-Mar-13 15:39:55

If you don't want to stay in the current house don't. The only reason to stay is if you want the children to spend more time with you than him - teenagers whatever rota parents' arrange virtually never stick to it and like to be in one place and can hardly be forced from one place to another like you can a 6 year old.

We were much happier after divorce and the children (they had asked for the divorce which is unusual so they were delighted but I am sure that hardly ever happens). It does show divorce can be the best thing for some people.

They will probably want to know that things will not change much, same schools, an easy routine (if any effort like travelling is involved parents will do it all for them as parents caused the problem), no resulting shortage of money, same allowance. Eg if their father never cooks for him you could make sure he learns before you leave so that he can cook their meals or he hires someone in to do the cooking on the days he is home and learns to do their washing or finds someone to do it for them when he's the one they are with and stuff like that. They also need to know it's not their fault and that you want the divorce and not worry it is some other reason like their behaviour or their father had an affair or something that isn't true.

Stepmooster Tue 09-Apr-13 06:20:18

You do sound a bit selfish. I feel sorry for your children. They are going to be told one day soon mummy doesn't love daddy anymore so mummy and daddy have decided you're going to move out with mummy.

I can tell you right now your children will not react with, 'oh ok, I'll just go pack my things.'

They will cry, scream, shout at you, blame you, hate you, start to question their faith and trust in other people and relationships. Grow up with commitment issues etc etc...

All because mummy chose to marry someone who worked hard enough to give her and his children a good life and she got bored.

Stand by your vows. My mother thought she could do what you did, but my sister and I point blank refused to want to go with her. She never got her head around the fact we were not her posessions because she had been SAHM. As soon as we were old enough to we went to be with our dad. And as young adults we spent more and more time with dad.

The fact of it is, your kids love mum and dad equally and they will hate you for this.

Have you thought what will happen if your reflexology career plan fails and you are trying to scratch by on spousal and Child maintenance. You do realise that you're going to have to have some major cutbacks to the standard of living you have now? Do you even know how much energy, council tax, water, rents, mortgages, insurance costs these days?

My DH ex was just like you, 4 years later she is a bitter woman who is up to her eyes in debt expecting her ex to bail her out.

How would you feel if your DH re-married and your kids went to live with them FT? And you only saw them EOW?

Be sure you can live with all the consequences of your actions before you blow your children's lives apart.

jenny99 Tue 09-Apr-13 14:18:02

Thank you for your comments.

Are you suggesting I should be unhappy and stay? What sort of role model does that provide of a marriage?

I no longer have loving feelings for my husband. We have been trying to change this for the last 2 years and have both had individual and couples counselling.

Are you suggesting I would be doing the right thing by carrying on in a sexless, loveless marriage for the sake of the kids? My OH has said he doesn't want me to do that. So should I pretend?

I know I would have major lifestyle changes.

What other options would you suggest?
Thank you smile

It can be just as damaging to stay together sometimes. That's not a healthy environment for kids either. My ExH came from a marriage like that and it didn't do him any favours at all.

When we all post our opinions on here, it is based on our experience and sometimes those experiences are painful and can bring fresh insight to others.

I'm divorced and have offered my opinion, stepmoosters is based from a child's painful experience. Each situation is different, all you can do is weigh them all up and do what feels right.

I'm sorry for your painful parents separation stepmooster but not every divorce has to be like that, if handled sensitively.

You have thought about this long and hard OP. It's a very difficult decision. I personally think in your situation separation is best, as long as you co parent well, never speak badly of the other parent and allow the children some say on residency as well. It can work. It does for my kids but obviously I wish I hadn't had to divorce sad

Stepmooster Wed 10-Apr-13 05:57:16

If you really feel that life would be better outside your marriage than from within. That you cannot discover your own potential with the support of your family then fine divorce your husband.

But when you talk about your children its only about how you will make them live with you, so that they can provide you with extra emotional and financial support. You do know they are going to be devastated, and you will be the bad guy not their dad.

If you want to reduce the risk of the children rebelling against you give them a choice. How will your STBEX act if his children beg to stay? Ready for a custody battle?

You seem to be longing for a better life than the rut you got yourself into. You could soon be alone, significantly worse off financially and have no job. That's the reality my mother found herself in, and she took it out on the children.

Why not go find yourself on a charity project abroad for a couple of months first?

I agree if children are being brought up within a hostile environment then yes divorce. Being a teenager and going through divorce is hell, it affects everything. I just wish more adults thought of the children more.

Yes I would stay in my marriage. I'd kick myself up the bum, retrain and start a career (reflexology imo is not a career to support a family on) and purpose in life. Then I would try to recreate the initial spark with my husband. He seems very keen to support you, he sounds as though he loves you a lot. You know you may never find that again. On the downside He's no mug and refuses to give you his home (why should he?)

TheNebulousBoojum Wed 10-Apr-13 07:20:46

You are free to choose what to do with your own life, but your children are old enough to have a say in what they want to do, and where they want to live.
Provided that decision is based on logic and discussion between all of you, then the situation will be as fair as possible.
It was your automatic assumption that you would take the children that annoyed me, they have rights too.

jenny99 Wed 10-Apr-13 08:02:42

My husband is out of the house from 6.00am-9.00pm and he and I have discussed the care of the children. We both feel that 50/50 would be fairest for all involved although it would possibly end up nearer 60/40 for me due to his working hours.

I am not trying to take the children away from him and I will encourage their special relationship. Perhaps I didn't make that clear in my post. I would be moving out with the kids but they would still be back with him for 40/50% of the time. It usually seem to be the father that finds the new place to live ime and I was just wondering.
Thank you for all opinions. Everything helps.

superbagpuss Wed 10-Apr-13 08:07:06

do not leave your kids ever. my mum left home without me, 20 plus years later still feel I am worthless as she didn't want me

Stepmooster Wed 10-Apr-13 09:26:16

We both feel that 50/50 would be fairest for all involved although it would possibly end up nearer 60/40 for me due to his working hours.

Two things, first your children may not want 50/50 60/40 care. If you try to force this on them without their input it could massively backfire.

Second, let me get this right, you intend not to be working when you move out and rely solely on handouts from your ex? In effect having all the benefits of still being his wife, not exactly the freedom your dreaming of.

If not you'd better go and try and find employment, then have the working hours discussion.

Have you even done anything practical like find out how much it is to rent a 3 bed near to your current home and nr your childrens school? Worked a budget for bills etc? Becuase divorce settlements can take years to finalise.

You have no idea how your STBEX will react to being a single dad. He may change his priorities in life, take a new job with better hours, fall in love again. He may not want to bend over backwards for the woman who left him, and taking his children from him. He is probably operating in a state of shock and don't put too much faith in what he promises you now.

NotMostPeople Wed 10-Apr-13 09:44:47

That's not very nice Stepmooser. What do you suggest? That the OP stay in a marriage that is making her miserable? That she totally discounts and therefore devalues the years that she was a Sahm? If you give up work to raise a family you're going to find it a lot harder to get back into a well paid job. If she hadn't been at home with the dc's would his career and therefore finances have taken off? If it was a joint choice for her to be a Sahm then they both should take responsibility for the financial fallout from that.

I'm shocked by how unsupportive people are being, I suspect it's because of the husbands high earnings, which isn't relevant.

jenny99 Wed 10-Apr-13 10:12:24

Thank you for your support for those of you giving it.

For those that aren't, thanks for the food for thought.

FYI we have looked at the practicalities.

I gave up my career because my husband wanted me to be at home with the kids, as did I.

Yes we have looked into practicalities and we won't be renting. We will be buying another house similar size to the one we are all in. Our finances can afford this and bills etc etc. sorry if that creates resentment in any of you but as you can read above my husband has worked bloody long hours to earn what he earns. I hVe asked him repeatedly over the years to work less hours for less money.

We realise the children will have views and we would like to take their views into account. But we both feel we will be saying to them that we will now have 2 homes and they will have a lot of fun with dad in his home and with me in mine and both will be their homes. We will be flexible where we can if particular events fall on certain days (football matches etc) and we want to parent together and not be manipulated. Things have moved on since I wrote the original post.

However, I am incredibly sad about it.

I doubt very much he will change jobs. He is in a partnership and is tied in financially.

I hope he will find someone else who loves him in the way he deserves.

However, I do believe that I am entitled to spousal as well as child maintenance.

I have been the mother to his children and given the last 15 yrs to that. But I have enjoyed it too.

My earning power is nowhere near his.

We have discussed this and he is at the moment comfortable with it.

:/

BertieBotts Wed 10-Apr-13 10:23:47

I think you've made the right decision. Good luck/.

jenny99 Wed 10-Apr-13 10:34:30

Thank you smile

NotMostPeople Wed 10-Apr-13 13:04:22

Lots of luck Jenny, it sounds like a positive way to move forward.

I don't think you need to justify yourself anymore Jenny tbh.

Stepmooster is projecting massively here and still sounds very angry and bitter about her past and transferring it. Not that I blame her but it's coming across in a very aggressive manner.

As I've said already, I am sorry Stepmooster for your difficult experience but not every divorce has to be that way, mine wasn't/ isn't and the kids are happy and thriving and my ExH and I do everything we can to co parent well and ensure the kids have a say in contact etc. Divorce is not ideal but there is a lot you can do to help protect and support the children if you cannot work things out.

I think as I have followed your thread from the beginning Jenny and read every post, that you are doing the best you can for your kids here, in a difficult situation and have thought about it a lot and I do not think for a moment that your divorce will pan out like Stepmoosters as you seem to be thinking about it all very carefully and taking our advice on board. I wish you the best of luck.

Stepmooster Wed 10-Apr-13 20:26:41

The OP asked for our experiences I am relating that to her. Kids have feelings, and teens can be rebellious and act in a certain way out of hurt. You may have sorted everything out but you will never know how your kids react.

Your soon to be divorce sounds a bit too fairytale. What will happen when reality sets in for your ex, and realises your not coming back. He might dig his heels in. He might refuse to pay you any maintenance and you have to go to court.

I would if I were you start trying to find some employment you want freedom from your husband but you will never be free if you have to rely 100 pct from him. But if you're happy to rely on him like that then why are you leaving him? If you meet someone else and becomes serious you won't get spousal anymore. And what if your new love earns nowhere near as much as your ex then what? Stay single forever to get spousal support?

I am not anti divorce, or SAHM I am just sick of how kids are treated as assets to split in two when they are people and have their own voice. It really has to be the last resort, the grass is not greener for them and children usually prefer to live in one house with both parents and not lead double lives.

No divorce is a fairytale.

I separated in Oct 2009 and it's been hard. My ExH chose to leave me, so I was left to pick up the pieces.

I help on a divorce course, so I'm under no illusions. I've met many people and seen the hurt they're going through and heard how the kids are suffering for it. You still sound deeply affected, and you're right, it can have a deep and lasting impact on children. It should be a last resort to divorce and I wouldn't say it was greener at all on the other side. Just different and yes, hard work as a lone parent. But I think Jenny knows all of this. I also do not think she is treating the kids as assets, I think you're projecting due to your own painful past.

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