Violence against women - how we tune out of it..

(115 Posts)
Pan Sat 02-Nov-13 12:51:19

Interesting TED Talk about this issue and how we see such violence as women's issues.
It's about 17 mins long BUT your attention will be grabbed within seconds.

What do we think?

It covers the whole matter much in the way as I see it.

If you had the figures why did you ask? confused

I dont disagree with you about perpetuating stereotypes.

It was my understanding that we were talking specifically about men hitting their partners. Hence my comments. Of course all types of violence are wrong, and bad, but it is beyond my comprehension to meaningfully discuss howe we as a society can reduce all types of violence committed by all people for all reasons.

As I said before, I think it is more meaningful to punish/rehabilitate (another thread) those responsible and care for the victims - rather than build awareness that violence is wrong (which is well known - sorry no figures)

Trust this clarifies my position.

lostdad Tue 26-Nov-13 16:17:44

Fair enough - assuming you're in the UK here's Office of National Stuff for 2011/12

www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_298904.pdf?

Some 7% of women and 5% of men were estimated to have experienced domestic abuse in the last year, equivalent to an estimated 1.2 million female and 800,000 male victims.

...so you're right that there are more women that suffer domestic violence than men according to reported crime. Of course it doesn't take into account the fact that men are much less likely to report incidents on the grounds that they won't be taken seriously (I have first hand experience of this) and are expected to `man up'. means that it is likely more even than the above figures.

In addition to this - things like denial of contact with children counts as domestic violence...but once again is often not logged at all. Ironically, this particular example is listed on the Woman's Aid website.

Violence is not only physical.

I've worked with both men and women...and have come to the conclusion that they are just as bad as each other. I can never understand why someone would automatically assume men are more violent than women.

You wouldn't suggest black people commit more muggings, Jews are stingier or Irish people are thicker than anyone else...so why is it OK to perpetuate stereotypes about men? confused

sorry for the american (and old) nature of this but as an illustration, provides some figures (and also some interesting "other stuff") to back up my assertions. Tables 38 and 44 are where I got my info.

?U.S. Department of Justice. "Criminal Victimization in the United States, 2007 Statistical Tables." National Crime Victimization Survey. (Aug. 31, 2010)

I assume you mean figures to show that men are the main perpatrators of violence? Rather than figures pertaining to the constant nature of violence and how it will continue? (Balls to you if you think I'm clever enough to back that up with sound psychological argument - I'm not BTW)

I dont have any figures to show that most violence is done by men, I just assumed that this was a given. I will howerver try and find some, just for you lostdad

lostdad Tue 26-Nov-13 12:20:42

AlbertGiordiano - `sadly there will always be violence (yes, mainly perpetrated by men).

What are your figures to back this assertion up?

I'm no expert on the issue. However I have an opinioni (which may be miles out).

I think if you asked 1000 men whether hitting their partner was acceptable all but a few* would probably say no. Therefore are people wasting their time "assisting" men not to do it when they already know that its wrong and unacceptable?

I'm not saying do nothing, but support for victims IMO has much more impact.

We are never going to be violence-free as a species, sadly there will always be violence (yes, mainly perpetrated by men) and I dont think any amount of education will eradicate it. I think helping victims and punishing those that commit violence is more important.

*usualy followed by an excuse i.e. yes, if they hit me first.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 24-Nov-13 13:54:04

If we concentrate our efforts on stopping men, then we are failing a significant number of men by ignoring that DV happens to them.

If we are to say that one woman suffering DV is one too many then we have to say the same regarding the men that suffer DV as well.

I am glad to hear it. In fact I am somewhat surprised that you should feel the need to ask me what you should do. But given your involvement, I do not understand why you feel the need to overlook the most obvious dimension of DV, specifically that is is mostly done by men on women. If rates of DV are to be reduced, it is really nothing more than common sense to concentrate one's efforts on assisting men not to do it. As you say, there has been much success but I think you will agree there is further to go.

I am sorry for what has happened to you (sincerely).

BoneyBackJefferson Tue 19-Nov-13 18:03:57

so is "stop hitting women" aimed at all men? if so you already have a huge success rate.

If its aimed at me, its already a success, even when my Ex was beating me with a pan, I didn't hit back.

Or is it aimed at those that hit women? in which case it needs to be directed at those that hit women.

I already assist in a collective efforts (which will seem strange to some due to what I post), I volunteer in the background of phone lines and help groups, support those that have organised (women only) marches.
I have spoken at rallies and at help groups for abusers.
I have intervened when I have seen women attacked and in some cases where it was just noise through a wall.

And yet I am considered the "enemy" for taking about female on male DV and men that can't see their children because their ex's are obstructive.

lostdad Tue 19-Nov-13 16:23:15

I would say it is everyone's job to support anyone getting hit regardless of gender.

Seems straightforward to me unless you are more concerned with gender issues rather than trying to better the lot of your fellow humans...

Stop hitting women? Support each other and find ways of not hitting women?

If I may answer pan's question, perhaps think of ways you could assist in a collective effort (if you are a man yourself).

BoneyBackJefferson Mon 18-Nov-13 17:17:11

pan

that is side stepping the question.
I could list what I have done, it may surprise you, not only what I have done that the outcome are not what you would expect.

But I wouldn't expect all men to follow me lead (so to speak). So what exactly do you want me to do?

Pan Mon 18-Nov-13 08:31:34

Oooh I don't know BBJ - why don't you have a think about your own question?

BoneyBackJefferson Mon 18-Nov-13 06:41:51

Toad

What exactly do you want men to do?

All for more reason for men to do something about it.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 17-Nov-13 16:07:02

"Men are generally physically stronger than women, and as such should not abuse that advantage."

IMO if a man is the perpetrator of DV he isn't going to care about abusing that advantage

I'll emphasise my last point again: DV is foul regardless of the gender of the perpetrator and the victim. No, I do not think we should "tune out" in respect of DV perpetrated by women against men. I've said on other threads that male victims of DV need to be taken more seriously than they are currently (ie, not taken seriously at all).

However, this does not detract from my main point, which is that in the average relationship, if a man and a woman get into a fight, the man is far more likely to inflict serious harm on the woman than vice versa. Men are generally physically stronger than women, and as such should not abuse that advantage.

Pan Sun 17-Nov-13 14:41:26

no SF I couldn't care less actually where you post.

It's just that it's pretty annoying when posters habits are characterised by not commencing their own discussion but instead leech off the effort, energy and idea of others in order to throw an obstacle in considering the topic. You aren't the only one who does this.

So it's fair to suggest that IF men are seen as disposable then go off and commence a discussion about it.

TheDoctrineOfWho Sun 17-Nov-13 14:38:57

<in case it's not obvious, I think any person slapping their partner is committing DV>

TheDoctrineOfWho Sun 17-Nov-13 14:34:46

He said the problem wasn't of the same magnitude and went on immediately to illustrate the point about relative strengths.

My interpretation of that was, say, a bruised cheek was not of the same magnitude as a broken cheekbone. Ie a similar blow from a stronger person could cause more damage,which did not mean that only one was DV.

I guess you read the post differently though, BBJ.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 17-Nov-13 14:11:57

He said that is wasn't of the same magnitude, is it violence or is it not?

Is a male slap equal to a female slap, how many slaps does a woman get before it becomes DV?

What magnitude does the violence have to take before we are allowed to notice?

SigmundFraude Sun 17-Nov-13 13:50:53

'The point is clear: men are responsible for using their strength responsibly.'

What do you think women are responsible for?

TheDoctrineOfWho Sun 17-Nov-13 13:43:01

He didn't say wasn't violence, just acknowledged that between him and his DW, he had greater physical strength and that this was generally true in a man-woman couple.

SigmundFraude Sun 17-Nov-13 13:41:00

'Again, if you think men are classed as disposable objects, that could be a worthy subject on another thread you could commence.'

This sort of sounds as though you are telling me where I can and can't post.

As for the rest, it looks like you could be right, it doesn't add anything to the proposal, however the link has stand alone value.

And I believe that education is never a waste.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 17-Nov-13 13:37:41

but toad has posted about how he wouldn't see being slapped by his partner as violence, or at very least not the same sort of DV as women suffer.

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