ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
'Traditional' Girls(25 Posts)
I wonder what views are on this.
An ex of mine when we were together would often tell me that she was a very 'traditional' girl when it came to what she wanted in a man. I never really pushed her on what she meant - I just took an educated guess as to what she meant and nodded in acknowledgement.
What would this mean to you guys?
Keep in mind that this was an independent (relatively speaking) grown-up woman, with her job, flat, car etc. She'd been married once before, very young though. I personally couldn't reconcile my idea of this 'traditional' girl she said she was, with the independent girl she sold to the world.
In my dating life since, any girl that comes up with the 'I'm a traditional girl' type notion, won't get past that date - I read something very negative into it, perhaps because of my past experience and thoughts since.
I'll set my stall out and say that marriage is a certain no no for me. It isn't something I aspire to. I don't even aspire to 'having' children of my own, particularly given how toxic the social/legal environment is for men in that situation. This was one - just ONE - of the reasons why the relationship floundered.
She wants a man to 'look after her' financially maybe? To be 'spoiled' certainly. A big fat diamond? Jimmy Choos? Weekend in NYC?
Does she want a 'traditional' man? Perhaps gleaming with sweat on his bare chest having just washed the filth of the pit from his skin at the pump in the yard?
Cradling a newborn like the Athena poster?
Or does she want to stay home and play 50's housewife, so you can come home from a hard day at the office to a smiling bride, a martini and a blowjob?
I'm stumped. But its fun guessing
I'd say she wanted marriage and the assurance of kids sometime. Being 'traditional' in that sense doesn't mean being a kept woman and given lots of gifts. But that women for whatever reason do like the commitment of marriage (and I know several who are very 'modern' in many ways but crave to be married to their partners), but particularly hormonally women are wired to want kids.
I expect that's what she and other girls mean when they say 'traditional'.
I also note you have a Nigerian NN? Are the girls you're dating African or from all over? I think if they are African, traditional is very likely to mean marriage and kids - whilst being very successful business women, having their own money etc.
Well, it depends on the woman and the cultural tradition she comes from.
But someone who self identifies as a 'girl' may well be looking for more than just monogamy plus willingness to shoulder financial responsibility during SAHM years.
How is "Ola the Lawyer" Nigerian?
Maybe. You never know on the internet.
PS. OP, if you "don't even aspire to 'having' children of my own", why are you on dadsnet?
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
OP said ^ I don't even aspire to 'having' children of my own, particularly given how toxic the social/legal environment is for men in that situation.^
Care to elaborate ?
Gunznroses, I thought they were referring to themselves as girls, but I am not sure now.
MerryMarigold is correct - I am of Nigerian descent....either that or I'm a female Polish ballroom dancer.
This particular ex was of Caribbean descent, but my own dating background is varied. For example, I have actually only ever dated two girls whom you would typically identify as 'black' (1 Caribbean, 1 African). I am drawn to the Mediterranean look - South American/Greek/Italian etc.
MerryMarigold - I hear what you say, but the view I took/take of it was/is certainly closer to UriGHOULer. It sounded as though she was saying "...I want to have my cake and eat it". "...I wan't to extol my independence, but also have you be able to look after me when convenient". The context at the time is that I was self-employed and not earning much after having been made redundant (2008 - young lawyer - hired expensively during the boom - first to go when the credit crunch hit etc.). What I saw was her saying, if you don't earn enough to money to look after me when I need it, there's going to be problems.
Your point RE: why women seem to want the 'commitment' of marriage is also interesting and could tie in with the above, and why I don't want it. All I see are 'cons' for myself. It doesn't seem to give me anything that I don't already have or can't otherwise acquire. If you can't show me the rational 'pros' of doing something and yet you keep telling me to do it, I'm going to assume its a trick or at best, that its just not worth doing.
LifeofPo - Do you actually have a relevant view? I really don't think the girl/woman distinction is all that material to the discussion, but for your information, 'girl' is the word she used when we talked.
Gunznroses - Professionally, I've seen way children are almost inevitably used to inflict havoc on men in the courts. I don't intend handing anybody that kind of dominion over me. I don't care if its nihilistic - this is MY life.
Olalawyer - Children used to inflict havoc on men? do these children not belong to these feckless men?
In your profession have you seen the the hundreds of children abandoned by men? And have you seen the deserted mother's cast off by these men, left struggling to make ends meet whilst the men enjoy their next piece of skirt?
Just as well you have no plans to have children, very wise of you indeed.
Gunznroses - What have you been smoking? What on earth are you talking about? Who said anything about men who abandon their children?
Those men who are 'in court' are not typically the one's abandoning their children are they? - they are usually the ones fighting to have access to their children and finding that their only real relevance so far as the courts are concerned, comes from their wallets. Have you ever been a man trying to enforce a contact order? It is virtually impossible.
From a financial point of view, children are typically handed to the mother, almost regardless of the circumstances of the relationship, and of course, the money follows the children.... you work it out. I certainly don't want any women to be able to use children as an avenue to have me fund her lifestyle. I don't need to be a father that badly, and so I don't want children 'with' any woman.
Surrogacy? adoption?... I'll see how it goes.
There is logic to my position, so please take your illogical bitterness and go away.
i like to think myself as traditional. but by that i mean following similar values as i grew up with.
for example: christmas. i want a traditional green tree not an upside down purple one with feathers on.
disciplining my children and not dishing out xboxes and smartphones to them. having them earn their sweets.
to save for expensive items the old fashioned way, not getting credit and asking for an advance from wonga.com.
and so on. where marriage and babies are concerned tradition doesnt come into it. it happens when it happens.
OP - Not having children is entirely your prerogative. It is your reasoning that I find absurd.
The very idea that all women taking men to court for child support are simply using them as an avenue to 'fund a lifestyle' not forgetting how toxic the social/legal environment is for men in that situation. Your ascertion that 'the money' follows the children really ? all those single mums must be raking it in, well I didn't know!
Thanks for enlightening us, what a brilliant lawyer you are!
Ola, I think the fundamental problem is a focus on money from you and possibly the women you've dated. You need to get rid of this yourself and anyone you are attracted to as well.
Marriage, kids and indeed, ANY relationship is based on love. If you love someone you may actually WANT to have children with them, because you aren't thinking that you're going to divorce and go to court. If you love someone, you may WANT to 'fund' them staying at home and taking care of your kids as that may become important to you.
Dh and I have the view that all money is OUR money. I worked in a good job, had a flat which I sold for a huge profit (in the boom) and he currently works while I stay at home. We can afford for me to stay home because we have a small mortgage due to selling flat, and because he works to earn the money for us to eat, go on holiday and pay the bills. My parents have also given us my inheritance early, which is very kind of them, but it is not MINE because it's from MY family. It's really dangerous to start thinking like that.
I think you need to learn how to love, to know what love is (perhaps you have not seen it in your own life from your parents or in their marriage, I don't know). Otherwise, I think you are very wise to avoid marriage and kids and it's good to be upfront about this too.
Money and looks are very superficial and if you (and the 'girls') can't get past this there is no hope, I'm afraid. You need to find someone who loves you for who you ARE not your job, your income or your looks - and likewise for you too.
You don't want marriage, you don't want kids, anyone who does wont get past the first date with you.
Yes you sound like a real prize and that's without even mentioning your misogynistic attitude.
WHAT exactly is in it for anyone to get involved with you? You sound thoroughly unpleasant.
I would describe myself as traditional.. I mean by that if I ever had another marriage/live in relationship I tend to & enjoy a nurturing roll. I take on the majority of house hold chores (as long as it's appreciated)! The relationship would have to be monogamous. I do like the feeling of being with a man that can take care of me.. (Not necessarily financially) I am naturally drawn to masculine dominant men, although I am quite assertive too. In order for me to be fairly subservient I would have to be sure he respected me & didn't take me for granted!! (Bet I get flamed for that remark)
P.s I'd also rather not cut the grass or put the rubbish out!!
Do you even like woman? You're certainty very mistrusting of them.
Some woman like to think that marriage and baby's are in the future. It's not really first date material really.. you very rarely ever know in a first date if you want to settle with a person.
OP, you appear to see women as predatory? - seeking to use you to create babies? and then take you to court to extract as much money as possible?
You say that you have seen a lot of this in the court system - and that may indeed be your experience. Personal experience always colours viewpoint. However extrapolating those experiences and applying them broad-scale to all women is not reasonable. A woman saying she is a traditional sort of girl may mean either of the extremes - someone who indeed wants to play 50's housewife, to someone who just prefers to dust & hoover while her partner mows lawns and fixes cars - or anything in between. I would say definitely someone who would look for commitment to marriage though.
And there lies the problem really. I don't think your post is so much about what women want, but very much about what you don't want - and that seems to be commitment?
Personally, I would say carry on as you are - playing the field and doing your own thing. At some point you may meet someone who makes you realise that actually loving someone means something very different (and at that point, you may actually understand the desire to have a child with someone about whom you care deeply)
Until you feel those emotions - to be honest, I would avoid any woman who wants a serious relationship (traditional or otherwise) because you are not really ready.
I would take traditional to mean - I expect a monogamous, committed relationship not some open modern interpretation of one.
For every family you see in court fighting over their children like a bone there are 100s (together and separated) who don't behave in that way.
You come across as bitter and cynical, been there done that and got over it myself, it probably is better that you don't have children with a woman - your prerogative but perhaps a sad way to raise a child.
For every 1 woman whose children are "used to inflict havoc on men in the courts" there are probably 5 men chasing a newer, younger, richer "girl" while a woman is left raising his children alone.
I have a family member who worked in the family law courts and said it put her off getting married and having children. She moved jobs and got over it. You're hanging out in the wrong places OP.
Wise words from Edited and Teacake. I think you've hit the nail on the head there both of you.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.