Mumsnet Talk

Been away for a while writing my novel, it was about a schoolboy wizard, publisher said there wasn't a demand, apparently it's been done before.

Anyway...

There does seem to be a bit of a men are crap cloud hanging over MN.

Obviously some men are horrible and deserve to be pilloried, I'm not on about those sort.

But it's when I read, 'he can't look after the children,' I mean really?
My 11 year old can look after younger children quite capably, can men really not do it?

Or are they being enabled to be rubbish or is it a doesn't do it my way kind of thing?

Or 'I don't let him near the washing' Really? What's the problem?

I was lucky (sort of) even though she doesn't know it, my ex is a feminist.
And as I can manage to tie my own shoelaces, therefore can manage pretty much anything to do with houses, we happily split all childcare and housework.

So is it an assumption that men can't do stuff, is it enabling or a male cunning plan?

Because most of the men I know seem ok and fairly capable.

All men are capable - no question about that. Some men people are just lazy and some will just never be able get it right in their partner's eyes no matter what they do.

I think sometimes the rule is:

- Men can't do it as well as a woman when it's stuff women want to do - esp if a woman has decided she doesn't like / trust the man
- Men can do it as well as a woman when it's stuff women don't want to do

The truth, surely, is that men are as capable as women (and vice versa) in every single arena of life (apart from being pregnant and breast feeding and some things like moving furniture that involve physical strenght).

The "male cunning plan" of preteding their rubbish at things so women will do them is bad and does exist, but on an individual level that just needs challenging.

I think quite often the differences in gender mean different approaches are taken, but there's no "right way" of doing anything and those differences are better celebrated than used in competition.

For example I'm a man whose had roughly 50 / 50 split of gender in bosses throughout my career. My experience has shown me that both genders can be good and bad bosses (for me). I think there have been differences which can be attributed to gender, but the basics for me of being a good boss (clear communication / consistent expectations / understanding of elements beyond control / development, etc) are present in both genders of boss I've found good. Just as the basics for me of being a bad boss (self interest / inconsistency / over the shoulder control / stifling personal development, etc) have been present in both genders of bosses I consider to be a bad boss.

Think too much is made of differences between gender in lots of different arenas and it seems to be adding "battles" to our modern lifes that we could do without.

I understand this may be a hangover from times when women clearly were undermined within society, but equality has come a long way (not far enough in some areas admittedly).

I said as much here

Of course men are good.
I don't bash any of the men I know. They are all decent.
(I do criticize dh sometimes but if I didn't vent here or to his face I'd go mad. He moans at me too. Neither of us are perfect).

Two problems:

1, Mothers of sons. I have read time and time again on here that daughters are great around the house, good communicators, tidy, helpful etc but sons just don't know and ironing board from a dustpan and brush. Bollocks, I say.

2, Enablers. Namely wives and girlfriends. Would prefer to say their partner couldn't possible distinguish between a dark and a light wash rather than admit it's actually a piece of piss and their partner could cope if their wife A, worked, or B, even existed.

Personally, I have no desire to pick up after another adult and any man who requested this type of slave like wife could do a run and a funny jump. Secondly, I have no need to validate my womanhood by claiming to be a 'domestic goddess' (vomit)

We all have a brain and a heart and that, in my mind makes us equal.

Yes, daft generalisations drive me mad as well.

In our house I'm the better cook, DH is the better shelf putter upper. But we've had 20 years headstart on each other (socialisation).

If a woman spends 20 years with a man that they think is useless or a loser, what does it say about her?
I can't be doing with such tomfoolery.

I like men. The ones I know, anyway.

daughters are great around the house, good communicators, tidy, helpful etc but sons just don't know and ironing board from a dustpan and brush.

There is no gene for ironing. If your sons can't work a dustpan and brush it is the fault of the parents (mother and fathers)

UTGSN, of course.

I think that every person has hidden about them somewhere a label that states
"You're mileage may vary!"

I think it's really simple, although I have to give the boss my wife the credit for putting it so well.

She's better at childcare. It's not because she's a woman, it's not because she's a mummy, it's not because I'm a man, it's because she does it every single day. She's learned tricks and shortcuts that, if I did it every day, I'm sure I would have found the same tricks, but I haven't.

I think it's not that she thinks I'm useless. But when it's my turn on the weekend, I don't do it the same way she does and she has to grit her teeth a bit and let me get on with it my way. I'm not as familiar with the children's "little ways" to do it as smoothly as she does; I don't have the experience of juggling a 3-month old while a two-year-old is demanding attention.

It's not that I'm incompetent, but in a really tough job like raising children, it's no wonder she (and many like her) feel pride and look down on us boys struggling along, trying to do what they do (with so much more ease than we can manage), and feel a degree of superiority to us poor beffudled men

Why bother even trying to validate your abilities? Obviously, if so many women feel the need to whine about what their men can't/won't do, then that's what makes them happy.

I've seen plenty of bachelors who know how to take care of every bit of the household work. They can cook, clean, do the laundry, keep the bathroom clean, etc.

As far a child care is concerned, we have an entire generation of entitlement princes and princesses waiting for the next big government handout. This has been going on for about 40 years, and it's killing Western Culture from the inside out.

I could give a care less about many of the "issues" brought up by the "menz are bad" crowd. Most of their whining amounts to emotional diarrhea, and doesn't stand up to the real issues of securing food, shelter, and clothing. I teach my children to be dependent on no one, and to heck with whether or not they wear blue or pink. They will learn all the basics needed in order to survive.

Some men are a waste of space so are some women.
Some men are fab and so are some women.

People are more likely to start a thread about a problem with their partner than one saying 'Everythings fine here, no problems to report'....cos lets face it, theres not a lot of advice to give on that is there.

My bloke is a better cook than me (well he is a chef so its quite important that he is really)...he is also better at doing stuff with our youngest...I am better with the eldest though....he deals with the laundry and the bins and the dishwasher and the dog poo quite happily and I deal with the bills and the shopping and the hoovering and the bathroom better.
We have a good happy supportive relationship.

I wouldnt put up with anything less.

Which is why I dont need to start any threads moaning about him.

And he cant be arsed with computers thank god so he wont be starting any moaning about me!!

Wish I liked cooking, though. Seeing as I have to feed my kids three meals a day.