Cantonese v Mandarin??

[whatlanguage]

Hi,

DH is British born Chinese. He was brought up by his parents in Cantonese, and speaks a local dialect to his Grandmother. English is his dominant language, his spoken Cantonese is pretty fluent, local dialect fluency fading rapidly. His writing is very slow, and needs electronic assistance.

The kids (5 and 3) have been brought up in the UK, with me and Nursery/school in English. DH has spoken Cantonese as much as poss. We have some Cantonese CD's and Disney films and some Chinese books.

DH has been looking at DS1 (5) starting Chinese school tomorrow (Sunday), however has just revealed that it will be in Mandarin. Any thoughts about the suitability of this? My feeling is its going to confuse the boys (they are already anti Chinese, and say they don't like seeing the Paternal grandparents, as they have to speak Chinese). DH thinks any Chinese is better than just him teaching them.

Sorry, thats long. Any thoughts appreciated, and yes, I've name changed.

[SanityClause]

What is the point of them learning a different language to the one they speak in the family?

Mandarin is a very widely spoken language, so very useful to learn, but at 5 and 3, when they have no interest anyway? What is he thinking?

[BIWI]

Mandarin is totally different from Cantonese. If the family speaks Cantonese then this is what they should be learning, otherwise they won't be able to talk to them!

[LetticeKnollys]

I agree that it's a totally different language so not helpful for your purposes.

Chinese Sunday school type things which teach in Cantonese usually teach Mandarin as a second language when they're a bit older, the same way English schools might teach French to older children (going off the experience of families I know who have used those kind of schools).

Have a look around to see if there are any other Cantonese speaking schools within traveling distance, IME they are more common than Mandarin schools since there are so many families from Hong Kong in the UK.

If you can't find anything appropriate you could consider a Cantonese tutor.

[whatlanguage]

I agree with the language. My example to him was how would you feel if you learnt Spanish, and then went to live in Italy. Related, but different.

Apparently they have dropped the Cantonese lessons in the local City, as there isn't the demand.

We live in the industrial North. Very, very white. I have suggested going further a-field, but that will wipe out one day every weekend, which I'm also reluctant to do.

Thank-you for reinforcing my gut feeling: they are different languages, what is the point.
I suspect he is thinking of the writing and culture aspect. But then if they are taught to write the wrong language, what use is that? The characters are the same, but they won't know which one to use, as the sound will be different?
Have I got this all twisted?

[LetticeKnollys]

Mandarin lessons usually teach simplified characters, as are used in the PRC.
Cantonese is usually taught along with traditional characters, as are used in Hong Kong.
Taiwan speaks Mandarin but uses simplified characters.
So the writing wouldn't be exactly the same either unless your DH's family happens to be from Taiwan.

Simplified and traditional characters, although they roughly resemble each other, are really are quite different. See these examples:

image.linotype.com/chinesefonts/traditional_simplified.gif

[JessieMcJessie]

If I were your DH I'd be more worried about the kids saying that they don't enjoy seeing the paternal grandparents as they have to speak in Cantonese. As your DH was brought up in Britain, they must speak English- couldn't you relax the Chinese-only rule to try to strengthen that relationship? maybe if they can talk to their grandparents about life in China or Hong Kong they will grow to appreciate the culture that way. I'd second that Mandarin, while probably more useful than Canto these days, will totally confuse your kids at this stage. Is DH's family from HK or southern China? To be honest there are still some pretty massive cultural differences between HK and the PRC and they don't tend to like each other much (I see this daily as I live in HK), so even the cultural aspect of Mandarin lessons may not reflect your DH's cultural background in some respects.

[JessieMcJessie]

Lettice Taiwanese use trad Chinese, I think from your next sentence that was a typo and you know that, but just wanted to clarify for OP's sake.

OP, yes, as I understand it, speakers of different dialects can all read written Chinese, and if you are a trad Chinese writer you can get the gist when you read Simplified. However the words they hear on their heads when readong are very different. That's because the writing is a system of characters that denote concepts and a character does not denote a sound as such. It's like if you showed a picture of a cat to an Englishman and a Frenchman. Both would know it was a cat. But if you said. "Chat" to the Englishman and asked him to do the corresponding drawing, he wouldn't know what to draw (though he might be able to guess, if in context.)

[whatlanguage]

Jessie, thanks for all the info. I'm staying well clear of the Cantonese / English interactions with the PiL. All I can do is encourage the kids to interact with the PiL, and aid them all I can. I don't know why my parents are seen as amazing, and PiL aren't. PiL English is weak (yes, FiL has lived here for 45 years, but has serious hearing issues, which has affected his english. MiL is pretty fluent, but very un-confident).
Family home is in the restricted area between HK New territories and PRC.... HK really, but visa to get in - granted to me as I'm married to someone allowed to go there. Nothing like getting a PRC visa. $ and RMB accepted.

Think we're now agreed that Mandarin isn't the way to go. Just got to find a route to the Cantonese. The other Chinese families with small kids we have come across are Mandarin speakers....

Thanks to all of you for educating me, and helping my get things straight in my head.