I'm ready for a flaming but just spent the last few hours sobbing and I need to talk.

(387 Posts)
internationallove985 Thu 18-Jul-13 00:10:33

I have decided not to name change here for the simple reason you will know it's me by my post and if you're going to flame me or say "Well I told you so", it may as well be the real me. I have posted here rather chat because I have opened up to more people on the conceptions threads.

Most of you know my situation for those that don't I have been sleeping with a guy for the past 2 months in the hopes of getting pregnant. I usual see him on Wednesday day time and Fri evening but I couldn't see him today so we arranged to see each other tonight... Anyway he got to mine for about 9.30.
We went straight upstairs. Sorry if what I say next is T.M.I but I gave him oral and yes rightly or wrongly expected it back but just as he was about to cum he pushed me down on the bed and dtd (with no foreplay) and came in less than a minute got up got dressed and said "I'm going now". I feel so used. I might as well be honest it felt a bit uncomfortable and I bled a little. The only time I've ever bled after sex is when I lsot my virginity.
I know I've been allowing myself to get used. I have never felt emotive after sex but I have just spent the past few hours sobbing. I'm in no way trying to cry rape as that was not the case at all, not once did I struggle or say no, but a little consideration would not have gone a miss. I just couldn't believe the change in him.
He is going away tommorow for a few weeks which now I am glad about as it will give me time to think. I'm sure he'd be mortified if he knew how he'd made me feel, do I tell him I feel used or do I just put it down to a quickie and rough sex. xx

Alibabaandthe40nappies Thu 18-Jul-13 00:13:11

You feel used?

What about your sperm donor?

Sounds an awful set up, just stop seeing him.

Secretswitch Thu 18-Jul-13 00:18:02

I'm so sorry this happened to you. I hope other poster's will be compassionate. Having a man thrust himself into when you are not ready/willing feels like an assault to me. If your bleeding continues please see your gynae. Love and hugs..

internationallove985 Thu 18-Jul-13 00:20:01

Thank you for your kind words. xx

Secretswitch Thu 18-Jul-13 00:25:44

Ohhh..International. You have been very upfront about your situation. I have not commented as I don't have anything valuable to add. I would hopefully never judge another woman for the decisions she makes regarding her body. I do feel terrible that you have been hurt. No woman in the world deserves to have sex forced upon her. Please take care of yourself. Crying is often the first step in healing..

BettyCrockerLover Thu 18-Jul-13 00:29:22

You bled? I'm sorry about that, no-one deserves to be treated like that.

But, you seem to be just a receptacle for him and he seems to be just a sperm donor for you, this 'relationship' sounds highly dysfunctional. If all you want is a baby then there are plenty of places to get artificially inseminated.

I'm just finding it a bit hard to empathize with you.

Skygirls Thu 18-Jul-13 00:31:42

Has he ever behaved this way with you before or was this the first time?

Anyway, how do you feel about him?
If this was me, I wouldn't be seeing him again, as I'd take this as a sign that he didn't respect me. Not a good way to go forward in a relationship.

Hope you feel better. There are plenty more worthwhile, respectful guys out there. You don't have to stay with this selfish one.

Have a wine and try to get some sleep.
Un-mumsnetty {{hug}} for you.

justhayley Thu 18-Jul-13 00:53:46

hmm sorry you feel crap. Are you more emotional because he left or didn't consider you during the sex? Does he usually stay with you afterwards?
It's a hard situation because you said in your other post it's just sex, if that's the case and you really don't have feelings involved why did it bother you that he left quickly? Do you think if your really honest you like this guy more than your letting on? Iv been there, kidded myself I was just having fun and wasn't falling for the guy but really I was and ended up heartbroken hmm
I think you need to stop sleeping with him. I'm not judging you for the way you want to get pregnant, I'm sure there are loads of women in real relationships & marriages doing exactly the same thing just not admitting it! However how would you feel if tonight you conceived? Yes it would make the horrible sex worth it but it's not really how you want your baby coming into the world. Also while your messing around with thus guy your missing opportunities to meet Mr right.
Can I ask how old are you (roughly)? Is there a rush due to age?
What you need is a gay best friend who wants to be a daddy grin forget this guy on Friday night, get some lippy on to your closest gay bar and find a friend grin

Roshbegosh Thu 18-Jul-13 00:58:09

Why don't you go for artificial insemination instead of a shag from someone who treats you like a free hooker and who doesn't want a baby? Or does he? You are clearly nothing to him, what are you doing? You don't sound responsible enough to be a parent.

KeepTheFaithBaby Thu 18-Jul-13 08:28:16

Please, please don't make a baby with this man. I know you prefer the term 'making love' but what he did to you is quite the opposite, isn't it? Putting the TTC aside, this isn't a healthy relationship. I think you should walk away so he doesn't have the opportunity to hurt you again.

FourLittleDudes Thu 18-Jul-13 08:46:31

Whatever the reasons are behind you having sex with this man (and for the record, I support your decision - I don't know if you ever came back to the 'legs in air' thread but I'm not the only one - however that's not what this thread is about) no one has the right to hurt you in any way.

People have sex for lots of reasons, just because some people don't agree with your reasons doesnt give them the right to hint that you were 'asking for it' or somehow more deserving of being treated like shit. Sex should be mutually enjoyable and to have someone suddenly be so rough and uncaring that they make you bleed - well that's disgusting and there is no justification for it.

You must feel quite shaken and shocked. I'm not very good at giving advice but maybe talking it through with someone professional night help, even though you say it was consentional, you have still been left feeling vunerable and used and disrespected.

WannaBeAMommy Thu 18-Jul-13 09:26:55

Hey Internstionallove. I'm shocked at this post!!

There is absolutelly nothing wrong with having fun and sex. How many people go out on the pull at the weekends no strings attached.... Its not my style but its alot of my mates.

What both of you are doing kinda throws me though.

He NEVER should make you feel that way. You bled for heavens sake thats not good enough. But im sorry hun but him leaving isn't that big a deal. Its just sex to you both. Your both getting something out of it....

Does he know hes been a baby donor? What happens when you do get pregnant and he either rejects your baby or wants access. Is that somthing you can take on. If he rejects it, says you trapped him can you afford to bring a baby up alone... If he wants access can he have it? Can his new girlfriend have your kid call it mommy? When Mr Right comes along will he be able to taje the baby on as his. Will you tell him the story of how you made him.... I hope you have thought about all this hunny and are mature enough to deal with it x

ThoraNomiki Thu 18-Jul-13 16:37:46

oh Interational that is awful. I'm sorry you've been treated like that sad it sounds like he thinks of you as little more than his play thing, a human blow-up doll. You do not need to be treated that way! Please consider finding another way to conceive a child. Imagine being tied to him for the remainder of your life (not necessarily in a relationship with each other but as joint parents). Is it worth taking the risk?

Strokethefurrywall Thu 18-Jul-13 16:43:54

The irony of this post doesn't escape me. You're using him for his sperm through deceit which you've admitted in your other posts, and you expect him to have respect for you?

He's using you. You're using him. I struggle to have an ounce of sympathy for you. Just go to a sperm bank and get some dignity.

ThoraNomiki Thu 18-Jul-13 17:11:37

I don't see the irony. Having sex without contraception is not a crime and if it were they would both be guilty. He forced himself upon her so roughly she bled..
I doubt he would have treated her any better if she'd been on the pill. As far as I can tell he doesn't know either way so it wouldn't have featured as part of his reasoning..

KeepTheFaithBaby Thu 18-Jul-13 17:19:41

If he treats you like this though, how might he be if he finds out you've got pregnant? confused

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OhBuggerMe Thu 18-Jul-13 21:45:44

Oh International despite not liking youth situation, I do feel for you.

This man has zero respect for you. This is no longer sex for fun, not pleasuring you at all then fulfilling himself and then beggering off is not fun.

Have a hot bath, delete his number and tomorrow start a fresh. Look for a man who Will look after you and treat you properly that you can have a proper relationship with.

I'm not here to flame but offer some support. thanks

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DfanjoUnchained Thu 18-Jul-13 22:04:47

Well, you got what you wanted and so did he. Win-win I'd say.

valiumredhead Thu 18-Jul-13 22:08:25

Oh nosad

Have a bath, early night and don't see him again. If you are seeing some one for sex the very least you want is for it to be good!

Chalk it up to a bad experience that won't be repeatedwine thanks

LittleBearPad Thu 18-Jul-13 22:10:04

Get the morning after pill and move on from him. This is not the bloke you want fathering your child.

OhBuggerMe Thu 18-Jul-13 22:12:11

<falls slightly in.love with sausagesteak>

Couldn't agree more little bear

valiumredhead Thu 18-Jul-13 22:16:57

Oh gosh yes MAP asap.

LithaR Thu 18-Jul-13 22:39:53

If you want a baby without all this risk, do what I do and visit a free donor website. More honest and less risk of feeling bad after.

The one I use is pollentree. Very good for all kinds of donations regarding fertility too.

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Sparklyboots Thu 18-Jul-13 23:12:59

OP that is horrible. Whatever your strategies about getting pregnant, they are not a crime punishable by rape.

Please don't see this man again. Also, post on relationships, where you will get more thoughtful support. This is not to say that anyone will like how you set up the relationship, but none of the regular posters there would think that any of that amounted to a crime punishable by rape.

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Sparklyboots Thu 18-Jul-13 23:31:45

Non consensual sex is rape. I'm not sure what this has to do with Radical Feminism? Or Fifty Shades of Grey and whether or not I read it?

Anyway, whether or not this man intended to leave the OP feeling awful, or it occurred to him that he needed to get consent before having sex with her, the OP did not feel she had given consent and so has experienced rape. Note that I am not suggesting she has him hung. But a quick lesson in what constitutes consent might be relevant? And also ending this awful relationship.

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titzup Thu 18-Jul-13 23:37:54

This is all wrong wrong wrong. Please do everyone involved a favour and stop it in its tracks right here right now. Get yourself AI'd if you want a baby, or find yourself a man who gives a shit about you and the kid. It's better, much better. Honest.

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Sparklyboots Thu 18-Jul-13 23:40:24

Where does it say she did consent? She gave him a blow job and then was held down while penetrated so roughly she bled.

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Sparklyboots Fri 19-Jul-13 00:00:10

Well, with friends like these...

OP, it seems really clear why you'd feel terrible about this particular encounter and the relationship in general. Do go over to relationships for some straight talking support.

There are better ways of conceiving a baby when you aren't in a relationship, please get yourself in a better position.

Sparklyboots Fri 19-Jul-13 00:09:57

I'm actually not interested in the man, I'm only posting because the OP is feeling terrible after a sexual encounter in which she did not give consent for penetration. I'm not interested in the man or labelling him or anything like that, I'm just concerned that the OP gets some support. Because non consensual sex will leave the non-consenting partner feeling violated and awful, and no one deserves that no matter how poorly they have handled their relationship

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Secretswitch Fri 19-Jul-13 06:03:49

Hi International,
I hope that you are doing alright. Please know you have a right to your feelings regarding the incident you described in your OP. Please post in relationships if you feel in need of support.

neontetra Fri 19-Jul-13 06:21:05

Another feminist here confirming that yes, forced penetration is rape, and no, consensually giving someone a blowjob does not give them the moral or indeed legal right to force their penis into you when you are not ready for this. Therefore I do hope the OP is OK.

OhBuggerMe Fri 19-Jul-13 07:10:22

The op and this guy have a specific arrangement where.he visits her home on set says for sex. She is happy to oblige a she's made clearl on another thread, she wants a baby.

This is not rape.

Just as when I have sex with my husband and don't say.yes but open my legs and let him in, also isn't rape.

ThoraNomiki Fri 19-Jul-13 08:25:20

Even people who are hard-core into rough sex agree on it before. Whether this was rape or not is up to the OP but from I read she was left feeling hurt and physically used. That is not the expected result of a mutually enjoyable encounter. I think actually that the posters who 'know the OP so well' have missed the point of the OP because your minds are clouded by the fact that OP has an unusual relationship set-up.

Is it only Radical Feminists that think a woman should not be treated like a sex toy?

OhBuggerMe Fri 19-Jul-13 08:33:30

No, not at all but the using was 2 ways..she was using him for his sperm... but I suppose you think only he is at fault hmm

Op wanted Penis though! This is the whole point she is TTC. She would have probably been even more distressed if she didn't get the sex!

Op I am sorry you are in pain however flippant my above comment is. Please please leave this man be and everyone here can hand hold and give you the support trying to conceive with donor sperm. I know you are hurting, and I agree with another poster that it seems you like this man more than you care to admit and there's no problem to admit that. We can support you with that.

Just be kind to yourself please, you will get that baby smile

ThoraNomiki Fri 19-Jul-13 09:15:04

The two situations are seperate issues.
Two people 'using' each other for sex should still be mutually enjoyable. Fuck - buddies should still have sexual respect for each other. The OP has been seeing this guy for a while and has not been left feeling shit from all their encounters. Just this one. Not just because he didn't go down on her but because he showed no consideration for her as a human being.
Neither of them asked the other to use contraception so at least with that one they're on an even keel with regards to lack of sexual respect.

For what it's worth I do not like the idea of a woman trying to get pregnant with a man who does not know about it, for her sake as much as his, but that is my opinion.
No man should push a woman down and penetrate her until she bleeds. No one should have the opinion that that is ok no matter what the nature of the couple's relationship or anything else going on between them.
Reading your partners body language and cues is part of obtaining consent. It doesn't have to be as straight forward as yes or no

ThoraNomiki Fri 19-Jul-13 09:59:34

The OP may have wanted penis bit how it is given is an important distinction.
My point is that International had every right to feel upset. I hope that she ends the arrangement and can find a better donor (preferably a willing one through official routes)

ThoraNomiki Fri 19-Jul-13 10:00:16

*but not bit

Fairylea Fri 19-Jul-13 10:08:17

I'm sorry this has happened to you.

However, and I say this kindly as someone who has been badly hurt by a friends with benefits situation myself, do you think maybe this is the wake up call you need?

Stop seeing him. Focus on finding someone who wants a proper relationship and baby, I think you're kidding yourself by trying to pretend that isn't what you want (also been there done that). You're clearly upset and emotional.

Also, please be aware that you don't know enough about this man or spend enough time with him to know he isn't seeing other women, some of whom may also be having sex with other men. Without using condoms you are leaving yourself open to all sorts.

Please look after yourself and don't have a baby with this man or any man prepared to treat you like this.

DfanjoUnchained Fri 19-Jul-13 10:08:47

The problem with being fuck buddies is sometimes the guy will lose respect for the woman and just use her as a masturbatory tool, which has happened in this case.

DfanjoUnchained Fri 19-Jul-13 10:09:31

Op, why not just get a boyfriend and have a baby the good old fashioned way?

Trust me its hard fucking graft and I wouldn't ever choose to be a LP.

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bonkersLFDT20 Fri 19-Jul-13 11:43:38

I don't understand how this can be called rape.
She's giving him a blowjob - willingly. He then got carried away with the moment. Is he actually supposed to have paused, asked for her specific consent and then carried on? Really? IF she had said no, or given any indication she was not consenting then that's a different story.

The fact she didn't enjoy it and feels used does NOT make it rape. See it from the man's POV please.

amessageforyouYoni Fri 19-Jul-13 11:47:59

I think this whole situation sounds potentially incredibly damaging to you. Is there no other way you can find to have the baby you want so much?

Having horrible sex with an abusive guy cannot be the answer.

Please reconsider.

She didn't object or say no or give him any signals that she didn't want sex.

Do your partners ask in esteem different sex acts?

Scuse me darling do you mind flipping over so I can penetrate you now???

I actually feel quite strongly that you are actually incredibly immoral if he knows nothing of your plan to get pregnant, what about his feelings, what about the resultant child's feelings?

Your pain at sex not playing out as you thought it would pales into insignificance of that he will feel if you become pregnant.

Are you planning on asking him to support you and the child or are you able to do that all by yourself?

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CalamityKate Fri 19-Jul-13 12:04:29

Cannot imagine having sex with my husband with him asking for permission between every change of activity.

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CalamityKate Fri 19-Jul-13 12:08:41

....also, if he got too enthusiastic (it has happened!) my response has been go "Oo, steady on dear!" Whereby he goes "oops, sorry....."

But I'm guessing the OP was reluctant to interrupt his flow. As it were.

Calamity- of course, she wanted the sperm!

Fenton Fri 19-Jul-13 12:16:31

Tell him you feel used and that wasn't what you wanted.

Then tell him you're trying to get pregnant by him and don't give a monkey's what he wants.

Problem solved.

Haven't read every post, but seems many posters are being unsympathetic because of the back-story/ issues of using him as a sperm donor.
I think if a woman wants to do this then it's up to her really - if the man is interested in pregnancy implications of sex he can take an interest/ take his own precautions !

I don't think all that's the issue - I think you had sex which was too close to an assault on your body and I wouldn't be seeing this man again.

I hope you can begin to move on from this soon, and possibly put it down to bad sex you don't want to experience again ?

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internationallove985 Fri 19-Jul-13 12:25:15

Thank you to all of you who have given me support. It is much apprieciated. I felt used but not raped. Although I will be honest I do find myself wondering "What would have happened had I asked him to stop? Well the truth is I'll never know. He called me yesterday morning but I ignored the call. x
Makeitupasyougoalong. I did not come to the thread yesterday as I was still quite emotional (if that's allowed!). While I know this is an open forum and I do not object to opinions, but please be mindful that sometimes hurtful comments can go a bit too far. Hence comment made at 12:06. I also did consider reporting your comment but if I was going to report every comment on here that had upset me. I'd be here all day and it's unfair to report just one comment also like I said I can deal with my own battles I don't need my hand held by mumsnet!x
To the person who implied I was upset about him going away please read my post again as that is not the case infact quite the opporsite
Juicy fat steak. I am far too intelligent to argue over kisses on posts, so we'll leave that one there. x

Hmm, interesting thoughts Juicy hmm

Fenton Fri 19-Jul-13 12:26:36

Hang on a minute - she's posted this in the Conception ???

For Fuck's Sake. hmm

MissStrawberry Fri 19-Jul-13 12:27:34

OP, this is your opportunity to break away from this man.

Spend some time alone. Think about the baby who will grow up without a daddy quite probably should you consider carrying on with trying to get pregnant like this.

Many people will tell you their child has done fine without a daddy or doesn't want one but let me tell you that is not always true and it is a hell of a risk.

You need a huge dose of counselling I think to find out why you are so desperate for a baby you will sleep with someone who isn't in anyway caring towards you.

And if you are sleeping with men and letting them think you are on the pill, stop it. Men sometimes are stupid and it isn't until they are told their lover is pregnant that realise sex without contraception often equals a baby and a life long responsibility.

I am sad that people really think it is okay to get pregnant by someone they hardly know.

In light of OPs latest post maybe it's just a very tricky area to discuss.
Hope you're feeling a bit better today international

Yes Fenton. All over Mn actually. That she's TTC with a FWb that doesn't know. Look at legs in the air in conception.

Me too Juicy!!!

PedantMarina Fri 19-Jul-13 12:31:11

Grrr, you know, I'd have a bit more patience with some of the ignorance being displayed on this thread if rape "after consent" hadn't been a recent news story!

Yes, it can be still rape if other aspects off the act had been consensual.

I don't know all of this backstory, but if the guy doesn't know he's being used for a sperm donor, then penetrating without consent is all the more heinous. What if this had been an "on" time and OP hadn't wanted to get pregnant?

Look, don't get me wrong. OP: this is a bad situation for you and you need to break it off with this guy. If you're now pregnant, never tell him. If you're not, take it as a sign from the gods that you need to find somebody, or another way, else.

internationallove985 Fri 19-Jul-13 12:33:00

Juicy fat steak. Where did I say I was raped. You admitted yourself I said it wasn't rape! Okay you have made it clear you do not like me, and that's fine, but to deliberatly target someone is not on!
FOR THE RECORD I WAS NOT RAPED. AND NOWHERE DID I SAY I WAS!! x

So you posted for attention then?!

Fenton Fri 19-Jul-13 12:36:51

You know what, I would be inclined to want to tip the bloke off about what you are doing and hope that he makes a hasty retreat for a lucky escape, - he sounds like an arsehole himself anyway though.

But either way to post about what's happening with you and your unsuspecting fuck buddy on a the Conception thread is just not right. It's just goading really isn't it?

internationallove985 Fri 19-Jul-13 12:39:29

No because I was emotional and needed to talk or am wrong for that now. It seems I can't do anything around here with the words troll and attention making a grand entrance, but yet it's okay for people to say whatever they like to me. x

internationallove985 Fri 19-Jul-13 12:40:57

Fenton I have already said why I posted in conception. x

Fenton Fri 19-Jul-13 12:43:35

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internationallove985 Fri 19-Jul-13 12:44:27

Thank you for your supportPendentMarina. It means a lot. x

BeQuicksieorBeDead Fri 19-Jul-13 12:45:38

op please consider a new plan to get pregnant.... You dont need this guy hanging around for the next eighteen years plus.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Fri 19-Jul-13 12:47:12

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MrsHoarder Fri 19-Jul-13 12:50:54

Given you can probably see you don't want a life long commitment to this guy now, best to move on. You don't deserve to be treated without consideration, whatever else is going on.

As for asking: yes the decent thing for him to do would have been to say "turn over, I want to fuck you hard". Asking for consent can be sexy if done right.

itsnotrocketscience Fri 19-Jul-13 12:58:04

Perhaps I'm naive, but surely a normal sexy quickie doesn't involve the guy getting dressed and leaving immediately.

You're not the first, neither will you be the last, woman to not realise someone is a tosser before sleeping with them. These men don't get better, and this behaviour may escalate during pregnancy.

Time to move on.

DisneyDiva87 Fri 19-Jul-13 13:10:41

I don't agree with your methods of getting pregnant International but you do still seem like a decent person, just because you are doing something I would never consider doesn't make you horrible (just misguided! wink).

In reference to the rape thing, I think some people are implying that they would consider what happened to you as rape, or close to it, even if you don't.

I think you should be rid of this guy or at least speak to him and tell him you want a baby and is he happy to provide the necessary so at least he knows. It sounds to me like he is literally just in for the sex and doesn't care much for you. This can't be a no strings attached thing for you as if you do get pregnant then he will always be your baby's dad even if he chooses to have nothing to do with the baby as a father. I really really urge you to speak to him about it. As others have mentioned there are other ways of having a baby and there is nothing wrong at all with a male friend consenting to be a free sperm donor if you are both happy with that decision.

Perhaps we should apply the 'If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all' rule here. There is no need to be mean to someone who is upset no matter what decisions they have made. Offer advice and disagree of course but lets not get personal or it just ruins the forum for everyone.

internationallove985 Fri 19-Jul-13 13:14:43

Thank you for your support. Disney Diva. x

Fairylea Fri 19-Jul-13 13:15:30

International I haven't seen you address what I said earlier about the potential for std's. You need to go and get yourself tested and use condoms from now on with any new partner until you are both tested.

You wouldn't want to end up pregnant and with an std. It could be disastrous for both you and the baby.

DisneyDiva87 Fri 19-Jul-13 13:17:05

I never thought of that Fairylea especially if there is potential of him sleeping with others!

RaRaZ Fri 19-Jul-13 13:25:09

I'm sorry that sex was uncomfortable for you, but I don't think the bleeding - unless more than a few spots - is really anything to worry about as rough/quick/energetic sex does cause some women to bleed.

I don't think you're really in a position to say you feel 'used' when by your own admission you have been using this guy yourself - but if sex with him isn't making you happy, then that's obviously not a good thing. If you feel that strongly about it and don't fancy/feel able to/etc have the conversation where you explain how you felt and the two of you are a LOT more open about what you want with each and what is acceptable, then I suggest you cut him off.

internationallove985 Fri 19-Jul-13 13:29:28

Hi RaRaz. The bleeding was more than spotting but it wasn't heavy either if that makes sense. It's stopped now. Also.thank you for your support.x

RaRaZ Fri 19-Jul-13 13:35:09

How long did you bleed for/how much did you bleed? You don't need to announce that here, obv, but think about it yourself. If you needed a pad/tampon/etc, I'd suggest you might want to call your GP for advice.

OhBuggerMe Fri 19-Jul-13 13:41:38

Thanks Juicy

Have some babydust.

<ducks>

Branleuse Fri 19-Jul-13 13:43:35

if youre trying to get pregnant, then maybe he thought you would prefer him to come there instead of your mouth?

Branleuse Fri 19-Jul-13 13:46:02

and shit sex does not equal rape ffs

Alibabaandthe40nappies Fri 19-Jul-13 13:46:39

Bran - the guy is not aware that the OP is trying to get pregnant.

Fenton Fri 19-Jul-13 13:47:38

Ironic really.

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internationallove985 Fri 19-Jul-13 13:51:20

Branleuse. I did not say I was raped. Like I said I do not mind getting flamed but not over something I did not say or even imply. x
RaRaz. I was still bleeding yesterday but only slightly. I wore a pad yesterday but as bleeding now stopped I don't need one today. Although I am still a bit sore. x

Fairylea Fri 19-Jul-13 13:54:50

Ok just ignore my post then......

MissStrawberry Fri 19-Jul-13 13:55:02

So what you are going to do now about this whole situation?

OhBuggerMe Fri 19-Jul-13 13:55:38

I'll take your hun,hun and raise you 'baby dancing'

<boak>

amessageforyouYoni Fri 19-Jul-13 14:13:37

There is a lot going on here, OP. You sound like you are going through some sort of manic episode, to be honest, and I think you need to take a step back from what is going on in your life right now and really take stock. Is counselling an option for you?

If you really want a baby, there are better ways to go about it than this. That is what I was trying to say up thread.

This guy sounds like a bastard of the highest order. he is using and abusing you. This is the man you want as a father for your child? Wouldn't an anonymous sperm donor be better? In all honesty?

internationallove985 Fri 19-Jul-13 14:15:06

Hi Fairylea thank you for your support. x
Missstrawberry. The honest answer is I don't know what I'm going to, but at the moment rightly or wrongly I don't care if I never see him again, I am as deserving of sex with a loving partner than any other women, and the right guy is out there somewhere! Although I think the mold was broke they made me. I've was told by my friend that I don't really match up with anyone but then I don't suppose there's anything wrong with being unique. My desperation for a baby still continues and if I am not pregnant from this cycle I suppose I can go to a sperm donor or even adopt a child.
However when he gets back from his holiday weakness may get the better of me, but I hope not. I also feel I am being a bit unreasonable as well as some would say it was only rough sex not a crime but he's never been rough with me like that before, but I did feel used and I can't help how I feel but perhaps it was karma because like I said we are using each other. x

coffeewineandchocolate Fri 19-Jul-13 14:15:10

I think it's a case of 'you reap what you sow". the type of arrangement you have will never be emotionally (and probably not physically) satisfying. Your fwb has no emotional interests in you and tbh didn't sound like the nicest guy in the world.

I get that you want to have a baby, but do you really think the type of guy who treats you like this is going to make a good father.

being brutally honest it doesn't sound like you are in the right emotional headspace to be a mother at the moment. Having a baby is a massive thing physically but probably more so mentally. To do it alone, even more so. To place yourself in this sort of situation shows immaturityand lack of foresight at best and more seriously massive self esteem issues and vulnerability.

internationallove985 Fri 19-Jul-13 14:18:29

Coffeewineandchocolate. I already do I dare say I already a proud independent single mum. x

ZingWidge Fri 19-Jul-13 14:26:46

TheSecondComing Fri 19-Jul-13 14:27:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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coffeewineandchocolate Fri 19-Jul-13 14:31:46

thanks tsc I was trying to form a response that wasn't immediately deleted...

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MrsHoarder Fri 19-Jul-13 14:35:43

Op you don't get to choose if the father is involved this way. If he's a positive influence or someone who undermines you, comes and goes and makes your DC feel insecure. So if you know he's a bit of an arse its a good idea not to have children with him.

There are other men, or there is using proper sperm donation.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Fri 19-Jul-13 14:39:33

Your poor child.

internationallove985 Fri 19-Jul-13 14:40:16

Juicy fat steak. How have you came to than conclusion! and you call me a troll!!! x

internationallove985 Fri 19-Jul-13 14:40:59

Also can I ask what HTH means? x

yamsareyammy Fri 19-Jul-13 14:41:19

OP. You are using him, and he is using you.
You have both decided to leave love out of it all.

"I am as deserving of sex with a loving partner than as any other woman" is what you wrote.
But I didnt think this had anything to do with love for you?
So it does really?
How interesting. Are you being really honest with yourself? That deep down, this did all involve love for you?

yamsareyammy Fri 19-Jul-13 14:42:04

hth means "hope that helps".

yamsareyammy Fri 19-Jul-13 14:42:58

I ahve always thought that fwb means just that to a man, but does involve feelings on the woman's part.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Fri 19-Jul-13 14:44:16

Can I ask, OP - because I haven't read your other threads - have you agreed on whether he will be named as the father if a baby is conceived, financially support you etc? Or is the deal that he supplies the sperm and once conception happens, he walks away, no more involvement?

I can understand why you would feel upset after the experience you describe, and those are your feelings and perfectly valid ones.

OhBuggerMe Fri 19-Jul-13 14:44:30

Barry white......hmm let.me think.........

LADY GARDEN

Bosh take that!

yamsareyammy Fri 19-Jul-13 14:51:48

He walks away, unless he wants to be involved, is the unspoken deal Snazzy.Well, hardly a deal, as he doesnt know he is being used in this way.

It is quite clear that this lady is ill, but it doesnt mean that she shouldn't hope for support when things go badly wrong.

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bonkersLFDT20 Fri 19-Jul-13 15:09:33

PedantMarina The news article states "and ignored the woman's demand that he not ejaculate."

So, she withdrew her consent. Different to what the OP is talking about.

coffeeinbed Fri 19-Jul-13 15:13:42

[Juicy fat steak. How have you came to than conclusion! and you call me a troll!!! x]
You have to admire the use of the kiss after a sentence like that.
grin

coffeeinbed Fri 19-Jul-13 15:14:12

sorry, epic bold fail.

chipmonkey Fri 19-Jul-13 15:16:18

Snazzy, there is no deal. This guy is completely unaware that she is using him to get pregnant. He's just in it for sex.

MissStrawberry Fri 19-Jul-13 15:59:32

"rightly or wrongly...."

It would be WRONG to see him again.

You are so casual about how you can have/get a baby I really feel you need to mature a bit and get some counselling.

MissStrawberry Fri 19-Jul-13 16:00:54

You already have a child?

WannaBeAMommy Fri 19-Jul-13 16:31:33

Conception...... Everything to do with conception. Ive had some threads of my own that you couldnt say to anyone in person like how long do you wait to go toilet. Do you raise your bum. Drinking etc. Isn't this about getting the right info no matter how silly tge queations are and then doing tests and the two week wait... Its meant to be a fun forum not this!

ZingWidge Fri 19-Jul-13 16:49:31

ok, not read full thread, but here's what I think (also having read previous comments of OP elsewhere)

OP however much I understand your desire to have another baby I can not applaud your method of TTC which is based on tricking someone else. It doesn't sit right with me as such.

BUT

in your defence I must say that in your case at least one of you actively wants a baby which IMO -on its own!- is a way better start compared to when babies are a result of ONSs, carelessness & accidents or rape and as such are unwanted and/or unplanned by the "parents".

I really think you should talk to your boyfriend and discuss this.
we all want things but that doesn't mean we will or should.
please consider what others said - some people are trying to protect you and your future baby from unnecessary problems.

I do hope you will have another child one day out of a loving relationship where you both decided to TTC.

Branleuse Fri 19-Jul-13 17:53:35

this is just a complete non issue.

Youve had sex with a guy that turned out to be a bit crap. He used you, but it shouldnt be a big deal to you because you have been using him, but for some reason it is. Maybe because youre a bit entitled

internationallove985 Sat 20-Jul-13 14:10:36

Thank you to everyone who offered me their support. He was calling me all last night in the end something told me to answer... We talked for a little while and I told him how he made me feel. I wont go into detail about the conversation as I think even on here somethings should be kept private. We are going to talk more throughly when he comes home and take it from there. xxx

yamsareyammy Sat 20-Jul-13 14:28:21

Be careful internationallove985.

You are playing with fire.
You may get burnt.
He may be finding out just how "rough" you will accept.

and in your case, that may be quite far.

You could be starting a rape thread on here before very long.

saintmerryweather Sat 20-Jul-13 14:28:48

when you talk more thoroughly are you going to tell him hes gonna be a daddy? or will your honesty not extend that far?

Writerwannabe83 Sat 20-Jul-13 14:32:29

lol grin

Course she is...... hmm

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Writerwannabe83 Sat 20-Jul-13 15:53:36

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Quite transparent I think wink

willitbe Sun 21-Jul-13 00:18:11

As a little aside as this thread was posted in conception.

Oral sex will hinder conception rather than help!!!!

There are enzymes in saliva that are harmful to sperm. Also, sperm need a certain pH level to survive and saliva interferes with that. Even water can cause osmotic shock.

So OP, if oral is the only way to get your sperm supply going, then I would find another donor now, preferably a donor that does not want oral before the big performance and can be a bit more considerate to you! (and you should not receive oral beforehand either!)

MadameBlavatsky Sun 21-Jul-13 01:32:07

God some absolutely fucking horrible responses on here. All this angst about this 'poor unsuspecting guy', ffs, here's an idea, if you don't want a child DON'T HAVE UNPROTECTED SEX, it's not rocket science. Either he's completely stupid or he just thinks it's someone else's problem. I suspect the latter, and quite frankly I'm struggling to find sympathy in any way for him and that's even without his behaviour towards the OP.

OP having said that, I advise you to listen to the massive alarm bells here. This guy is a twat. It doesn't matter what you label it as, physically hurting you to the point of bleeding is more than just a bit of rough sex and doing that to you makes him a complete cunt. I've had rough sex before, but never to the point of making me bleed! shock at the insinuation that you deserve to be treated like that. You don't.

He is NOT a good person and I think you will end up getting far more hurt if you see him again. I understand your desperation for a child, but doing this is likely to backfire in your face. He is NOT a good person to father your precious child. You can find proper sperm donors and go about it without all the risks. The risks to you right now in this current course of action outweigh the potential benefits. You say FWB is working for you, but love, it really honestly doesn't sound like it is. FWB can work, if there is mutual respect and there is none here. You are more than some random guy's fucktoy, don't let him treat you like one.

MadameBlavatsky Sun 21-Jul-13 01:36:20

"If only you could meet someone like Chesney from Corrie. Obviously I don't mean ginger hair <shudders>"

Oh, and JuicyFatSteak, you can just FOTTFSOFAWYGTFOSM for this ^

My son is ginger and gorgeous. You, on the other hand are just horrible.

internationallove985 Sun 21-Jul-13 01:43:50

Hi Willitbe thankyou for your support and advice. xxx
Hi MadamBlavatsky Thank you for you kind words. Also I agree ginger hair is gorgeous infact I think negative comments about hair color should be against the law. Well it's illegal to say anything negative about skin color isn't it, and yes absolutely so it should be. xxx

emmelinelucas Sun 21-Jul-13 02:39:24

OP, keep thanking people for kind words
So many Problems
Give them all a grip
lol !
smile
x

emmelinelucas Sun 21-Jul-13 02:44:12

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yamsareyammy Sun 21-Jul-13 07:32:11

From, how she has answered on another thread in Chat or somewhere, it is clear that international has some sn.

international. I think you need to be more careful about looking after yourself. I dont know how well you know the man, or think you do, but he will have already worked out by now, that he can do rough sex. It is likely, quite likely, that he will do it rougher.
Is there anyone in rl that you can safely to talk to about this? As what you are doing, could put you in some danger.
Seriously, take care.

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 07:46:26

You say it is clear that International has some sn..

What is sn??

ZingWidge Sun 21-Jul-13 08:10:42

sn = special needs

internationallove985 Sun 21-Jul-13 08:32:38

yamsareyammy. I just don't get your comment how does me wanting a baby bring you to the conclusion that I have S.N. x

yamsareyammy Sun 21-Jul-13 08:39:02

I will pm you if that is ok.
It is a post you put on a different thread, not to do with your talks on conception.

internationallove985 Sun 21-Jul-13 08:42:31

Yeah that's fine Yamsareyammy. x

Roshbegosh Sun 21-Jul-13 08:53:56

It isn't about wanting a baby that adds up to sn, it's about wanting a baby this way. I dont see evidence of sn here, just stupidity.
What you are doing is wrong. If you get pregnant you will have to tell your child that their father used you to relieve himself, you knew you were nothing to him, he thought you used contraceptives. Mum and dad both to blame for the mess. Does he have money to support you and baby? Why have you picked this particular shit?

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 08:56:18

I think she'd pick any guy to be honest .

I think that in order to be 'good enough' to be the father of her child, the only quality he needs is the ability to ejaculate.

internationallove985 Sun 21-Jul-13 09:43:52

Roshbegosh. I don't care what way I get my baby as long as I get him/her. I believe all children are beautiful and precious regardless of the circcumstances of their conception.
If he doesn't want to be around I have enough love and money to support him/her.
Ideally I'd love to meet someone and fall in love but my life isn't a fairy tale and I don't exactly have buckets of time on my hands x
Yes Writerwannabe. I will love my child despite who the father is. Whatever the situation it certainly wont/wouldn't be the baby's fault would it. x

TheSecondComing Sun 21-Jul-13 09:52:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 09:52:53

You are right, it won't be the baby's fault - it will be yours... hmm

TeaAndANatter Sun 21-Jul-13 10:05:41

I am utterly disgusted by some of the comments on this thread. I've not read them all, just a skimmed sample, but was horrified that a thread in which the OP wrote for some comfort around what (to me) is rape, and certainly was unwanted sex (in so much as it was not wanted or consented to in that way), has become an opportunity for the great and good of mumsnet to get stuck in on a moral rant about other aspects of this poster's life and choices.

The OP did give details of the context of this episode, but it was clearly not the focus of the post. Where is the sisterhood in our community if we use even a sexual assault/abusive sex as the chance to get out typing fingers into some good juicy back biting shit?

It does not matter what this poster is doing (room enough for that on other threads/other days). It does not and will never warrant abusive sex. Would any of us say that our mothers, sisters, daughters 'deserve' to be sexually assaulted or abused because they make crap decisions in other aspects of their lives? Frankly, in the context of someone posting for help and support about unwanted sex, I don't give a rat's ass WHAT they're doing in their wider lives. It really doesn't matter.

OP, I would recommend that you consider phoning either your local Rape Crisis. You don't need to have been raped, or to label what has happened to you as rape to be supported there. The national number (if you don't want to look up your local) is 0808 802 9999, or Scotland 0808 801 0302. Apologies if someone else has already posted this earlier, I didn't have the heart to read in detail some of the previous posts.

Whatever your future choices, I wish you the very best, and hope that things work out for you. x

Fairylea Sun 21-Jul-13 10:11:46

You do realise don't you that you are emotionally involved with this man, and I think quite in love with him? Why else would you let a fuck buddy treat you like utter shit and then worry so much about what he's doing / what to say / whatever else.

If all you want is sex, trust me there are LOTS of men out there who would have sex with no strings.

But you're clearly attached to this particular man.

Which makes me wonder what is going to happen if and when you do get pregnant. Are you expecting him to want to play happy families? Because I doubt that's going to happen. He is an arse and he will continue to be an arse and if he wants to see his baby then he will be a permanent arse in yours and your existing child's life.

I cannot stress to you enough you need to do a full std check NOW and not have unprotected sex again. How would your existing child cope if you contracted AIDs for example? Seriously, could happen! You really don't know what he's doing or who he's doing the rest of the time he's not with you. Totally irresponsible parenting on your part to put yourself at risk like this.

Do what I did. I am twice divorced. I wanted another child. I went online dating, plenty of fish. Kissed a lot of frogs. Then met my dh, we married and had a ds - took us 1 year and a bit to conceive as we both had health issues but both desperately wanted a child. Dh loves and adores my older dd like his own.

Don't waste your time on twats. Get online dating. Meet new people.

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 10:23:03

I met my husband through Plenty of fish too grin

Roshbegosh Sun 21-Jul-13 10:40:54

teaandnatter yes the sex is abusive and hideous without a doubt but she wants to continue to get his sperm. She could say no but chooses to say yes. Will rape crisis help with that?

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 10:47:05

Exactly - she has already agreed to meet up with him when he gets back off his holidays so they can try and work things out and then have baby (obviously he doesn't know about he latter). She even said herself she would probably sleep with him when she first sees him.

I can't say I'd be feeling the same about a man who had just 'raped' me .. hmm

TeaAndANatter Sun 21-Jul-13 10:52:22

She didn't choose to say yes to that kind of sex. That specific sex was not wanted or consensual. It hadn't been negotiated (as per wanted rough sex) or discussed.

The OPs own lack of discussion and negotiation about the potential pregnancy doesn't negate her own right to not be sexually abused. Her choice to continue trying to get pregnant with an abusive male does not give him the right to be abusive. That's tantamount to suggesting that women who are domestically abused are giving the male the right to do so simply because they stay.

For whatever reason, the OP feels a need to do this. I'm not going to make a comment on the morals of that, that's not what this thread was started for. It means that she is in a vulnerable situation with an abusive partner, and doesn't feel that she can negotiate her safety, or leave. Rape Crisis and Women's Aid would both be happy to support women who are experiencing sexual abuse, whether they choose to stay or to leave the relationship. The morals of whatever women do outside an episode of unwanted sex aren't judged in either of those agencies.

Hope this helps make my post clearer.

TeaAndANatter Sun 21-Jul-13 10:58:45

Hi Writer.

Most rape happens within relationships, as it happens. Stranger rape is very uncommon, and 'date' rape whilst unfortunately much more common, is still less numerically than rape within ongoing relationships.

There is a huge variety of reasons that women (and men in abusive relationships) stay in abusive relationships, and for many of them it's not as simple a choice as how they once thought they'd feel if they were ever raped. Being in that situation can change people's minds about what they think they'd do, and what a woman does in the circs of one assault can be totally different to the next woman, or even the same woman in a different situation of abuse.

What you or I might do in that situation (and for lots and lots of different reasons I don't imagine we'd be in exactly quite that situation) pretty much isn't relevant, if you see what I mean.

yamsareyammy Sun 21-Jul-13 11:21:03

TeaAndANatter, i would suggest you read the other thread too.

The problem is that this poster is willing to go back for more. It seems to me, she will go to whatever lengths it takes to conceive. And I mean, whatever it takes.

The poster is vulnerable in the extreme.

DayOldCheesecake Sun 21-Jul-13 11:31:15

It's not rape just because he didn't take you out for lobster & champagne at a Michelin-starred restaurant and give you the best sex you've ever had complete with MOs via oral sex. Fgs.

Stop acting like a sex toy and maybe you'll get "made love to" as opposed to "fucked".

Roshbegosh Sun 21-Jul-13 11:32:05

She is certainly vulnerable in the extreme, but can you call this a relationship? They are fuck buddies, that is what it is, consensual sex with someone who is nothing to you.

yamsareyammy Sun 21-Jul-13 11:36:09

This thread is the second of the two threads.

I am getting confused as to what I have said on which thread.

The other part of the problem is, is that this poster, I think, craves love. And she is slightly falling for this man.

Plus which, she has done this before with another man [from what I can understand], and she "got away with it" last time.

And there is another issue.
Talked about on the other thread.

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 11:41:53

Hi Tea - I know that a lot of rape occurs in relationships/marriages, sadly so, and I completely understand how the dynamic of a relationship makes the woman too scared to leave him for a variety of reasons.

However, this is a man that International has only known for 2 months and she meets up with him on Wednesdays and Fridays for casual sex due to her secret desire to have a baby. That is not a relationship by any means.

There are men everywhere who would quite happily have sex with her if she offered it and therefore I don't understand what it is about their 'relationship' that means she feels she has to stay with a man who raped her??? hmm

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 11:48:59

And when I say, "Stay with him" I mean that in the loosest of terms as they aren't even together. She admitted herself that she doesn't even know if he is married or not.

I guess I meant

"There are men everywhere who would quite happily have sex with her if she offered it and therefore I don't understand what is so profound about this 'relationship' that would justify why she wants to see again a man who raped her??? hmm

RaRaZ Sun 21-Jul-13 12:09:34

I don't understand the reason this man is being condemned as a rapist hmm - the OP said herself that it wasn't rape. They have an agreement that they meet up for sex every Wed and Fri. He turned up on Wed and had sex with her. Apparently she had a slightly different idea of what she wanted to happen after going down on him, but she never at any point told him that. What would you expect him to do, stop after every position and ask for written consent to continue in another? If two parties willingly start having sex and one of them changes their mind part way through, it's up to that party to inform the other!

Chubfuddler Sun 21-Jul-13 12:26:33

It's probably much too late to say this, and no doubt it's been said before but op this is a fucking bad idea. This man, if he fathers your child, is not just a sperm donor. In fact even a sperm donor isn't just am anonymous provider of cells anymore.

If he finds out you get pregnant with his child he could apply for pr and contact and get it. Do you want that? Because "he was just a casual fuck I was using for his DNA so please don't give me contact with my baby" is unlikely to wash with a court.

He probably assumes you are on the pill. He's indifferent to barrier contraception. He could have diseases and give them to you and your child.

You must be mad.

Champagnebubble Sun 21-Jul-13 12:32:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

yamsareyammy Sun 21-Jul-13 12:32:56

international, can I ask, how did you meet this man?
Or am I right in thinking that you knew him from school?

chipmonkey Sun 21-Jul-13 12:38:19

I don't know if I would call it rape but what he did was very aggressive. I would think it would need to be very rough for her to bleed. I don't usually talk about my sex life on here but in all the years we've been together, dh and I have sometimes had fairly fast and furious sex, it has never made me bleed.

international, please don't have sex with him again. He has no respect for you, you have no idea who else he is sleeping with and you are risking your health and life. And even if it wasn't rape this time, do you honestly feel safe with him?

There are men out there who are willing to donate sperm, who will be screened and tested and will definitely want no involvement with the child. Why don't you consider that?

internationallove985 Sun 21-Jul-13 12:42:04

Dayoldcheesecake. Read my comment again before jumping on the let's flame international band wagon nowhere did I say I was raped. x
Thank you for your support tea and natter.x
Champagnebubble. Thankyou for your advice. I'm used to getting flamed on here. They think by doing that I'm going to go away but sorry for the flamers it aint going to happen, mind you in their defence I did say I say i was ready for a flaming. I argue my point with people though and the famous troll word often comes out!
Yamsareyammy. I met him im May thought it was going to be yet another O.N.S x

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 12:44:19

YET ANOTHER O.N.S ???????????????

How many do you have exactly??? shock

yamsareyammy Sun 21-Jul-13 12:46:07

international. Said with care and concern.
If you knew he was going to be even rougher next time, would you still sleep with him?

internationallove985 Sun 21-Jul-13 12:48:12

Prior to meeting fwb. I think I have had more than 100 O.N.S. I've never contracted any sexually transmitted deseases though I was screened in April and I was given the all clear. x

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 12:50:35

Do you have O.N.S because you like the guy and hope it will lead to something else?

Or do you have them with guys that you like just for a bit of fun?

Or do you have them with the sole purpose of hoping to get pregnant from one of them??

internationallove985 Sun 21-Jul-13 12:57:30

All different senarios really my angel was the product of a planned O.N.S I knew I was fertile but I was single so I went out with every intention of having a O.N.S to ttc
My D.D was a first date conception baby.
Prior to meeting fwb it was just for fun mostly. What can I say. I am a hot blooded women with desires. However now I do it with the sole purpose of creating a new life. x

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 13:01:39

Are you sleeping with other guys alongside your FWB??

I don't understand why if you are such a hot blooded woman, and such a fan of ONS's, why you would restrict your likelihood of conception by giving up that lifestyle for a guy you just see twice a week??

yamsareyammy Sun 21-Jul-13 13:03:29

You didnt answer my question, so I can conclude that you are going to risk it.

I understand that by creating another life that you will be creating another person to love you. And my guess is that is what you are craving.

JuicyFatRump Sun 21-Jul-13 13:04:20

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Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 13:04:38

My thoughts exactly....

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 13:05:54

I meant my post in relation to International craving someone to love her smile

I think me and Juicy cross-posted!! smile

internationallove985 Sun 21-Jul-13 13:07:11

No I am only sleeping with this guy ATM for the simple reason, if I sleep around with randomers while ttc I wouldn't know who was the father of my baby was should I be lucky enough to get pregnant. x

Itstartshere Sun 21-Jul-13 13:08:01

You can view it however you want to, International, that is up to you to decide. You have to protect yourself emotionally.

I think it was rape. A decent man would read the signals of the situation -NOT just that you wanted oral yourself, but that having had no foreplay you wouldn't necessarily be aroused. I would be very concerned that if you see him again this will escalate. He doesn't seem to have any concern for your wellbeing, which even in the case of casual sex most people would have.

No woman deserves to be assaulted. It doesn't matter that she's making bad choices herself, it doesn't matter that she consented up to a certain point. Crap sex is different to rape and assault. It just is. Doesn't mean women have a right to behave badly and that they don't matter, just that that is a completely separate issue.

God there are some vile, ignorant people out there.

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 13:09:21

Well if I was you I would find a discreet way of finding out if he has had a vasectomy - especially if he is the same age-ish as you. Like you said, you don't know if he is married and has children etc. That may be the prime reason he hasn't mentioned contraception.

Try and find a way to bring vasectomies into conversation and see what his reaction is like.....

internationallove985 Sun 21-Jul-13 13:11:01

Juicyfatrump. Where did I use the words raped and abused. x

JuicyFatRump Sun 21-Jul-13 13:15:58

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JuicyFatRump Sun 21-Jul-13 13:18:16

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yamsareyammy Sun 21-Jul-13 13:18:33

Juicy. With respect to the op, she is not your average poster if you look back to some posts early this morning.

yamsareyammy Sun 21-Jul-13 13:19:37

Juicy, are you a man?

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 13:24:19

yamsareyammy - hahahahahahahahaha grin

That made me laugh out loud!!!!!

Itstartshere Sun 21-Jul-13 13:24:45

Juicy your posts are absolutely vile. Up there with Daft Punk's easily.

JuicyFatRump Sun 21-Jul-13 13:27:42

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JuicyFatRump Sun 21-Jul-13 13:31:02

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JuliaScurr Sun 21-Jul-13 13:31:57

Tea you are right
this idea that it's her responsibility to say 'no' - not according to the law it isn't
it's his responsibility to get a 'yes' before continuing
www.rapecrisis.org.uk/rapeampsexualviolence2.php
and the endless wittering on about feminists
<shakes head very slowly>

internationallove985 Sun 21-Jul-13 13:33:24

juicyfatrump. I will be more dignified than you are being and say congratulations on your pregnancy, I am not going to say anything abusive on here to anyone because I was taught better than that. I'm a survivor! x

JuliaScurr Sun 21-Jul-13 13:34:19

juicy yes, you do have that right
to publicly show you are ill-informed and lacking in any human empathy
you have succeeded

JuicyFatRump Sun 21-Jul-13 13:41:19

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internationallove985 Sun 21-Jul-13 13:43:43

Like I said juicyfatrump where did I say I was a victim. Nowhere! x

Fairylea Sun 21-Jul-13 13:45:52

International I hope you have a very good support network around you because if you fall pregnant and things do not go to plan it will be extremely difficult as a totally single parent. I'm not saying people don't cope, because they do, but to willingly put yourself in that situation, well I think you're crazy. For example, with myds I had undiagnosed placenta previa which wasn't discovered until the c section itself. I lost 3 litres of blood, had 3 blood transfusions and spent 2 weeks in hospital. My pregnancy was completely healthy and normal until that point, no symptoms or bleeding at all. How would you cope if that were you? What would happen to your dc?

I don't think you've really thought everything through at all.

yamsareyammy Sun 21-Jul-13 13:47:56

She has said many times that she does not consider that she was raped. She cant stop others saying it.

JuicyFatRump Sun 21-Jul-13 13:50:42

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JuicyFatRump Sun 21-Jul-13 13:52:37

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internationallove985 Sun 21-Jul-13 13:54:09

I was not raped and nowhere did I say I was. x

JuicyFatRump Sun 21-Jul-13 13:56:14

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RaRaZ Sun 21-Jul-13 14:05:06

International : If you are truly desperate for a baby and don't care who or where it comes from, as you put it, why do you even need to know who the father is??? hmm You said yourself you probably wouldn't tell him and you wouldn't ask for financial support from him... So why do you need to know who it is?

JuliaScurr Sun 21-Jul-13 14:05:34

lots of people accept behaviour as 'normal' when it is, in fact, rape. Many women continue sexual relationships with men who raped them.
Suggesting otherwise only shows lack of understanding of this subject.

JuliaScurr Sun 21-Jul-13 14:07:59

Itstartshere you're right

internationallove985 Sun 21-Jul-13 14:08:05

Raraz because the least my future baby deserves is to know is his/her daddy's name. x

RaRaZ Sun 21-Jul-13 14:08:09

And thanks for re-iterating that you were NOT raped or abused. I hope people can finally get their heads around that hmm - not your fault, International , but this thread seems to have turned into a witch-hunt against men... I worry about the possible consequences of convincing women that rough sex/sex not in the manner hoped for/bad sex/sex without adequate foreplay/etc constitutes rape. If women start going to the police about this sort of incident and claiming rape, innocent lives could be destroyed. Rape is a lot more than just rough sex. Had the OP said 'no' or pushed her FWB away, cried/cried out with pain, asked him to be gentle and been ignored/etc, THEN it would be rape.

RaRaZ Sun 21-Jul-13 14:10:12

International : Even when they're most likely never going to meet their father? hmm You're just going to leave it as "Your dad's called Mike [had to call him something]. I never told him I wanted a baby with him and he knows nothing about you. He probably wouldn't care if he did because he thought we were just having casual sex. But there you are, his name's Mike."

JuicyFatRump Sun 21-Jul-13 14:20:30

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MissStrawberry Sun 21-Jul-13 14:29:46

"as long as I get him/her."

What a terrible way to approach parenthood.

I ask again, OP, do you already have a child?

JuicyFatRump Sun 21-Jul-13 14:32:51

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MissStrawberry Sun 21-Jul-13 14:35:14

Yes, I posted before I read to the end.

OP, seriously, get yourself some professional help.

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 14:38:53

People only get professional help if they believe they need it.... hmm

GoshAnneGorilla Sun 21-Jul-13 14:47:52

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yamsareyammy Sun 21-Jul-13 14:52:14

Trouble is here that she says yes though, doesnt she.
And in between, as she says she didnt say no.
And people dont necessarily keep saying yes as they go along do they.

The reality is that she is probably going to say yes again, initially anyway.
And no one on here, myself included has managed to persuade her against it.
What the op really needs is love. Enough love in her life, that she doesnt carry on doing what she is doing.

Because her desire to be loved by a new child literally does trump everything else.

international, he has gone away for a few weeks, so it does give you time to think.

yamsareyammy Sun 21-Jul-13 14:53:22

Gosh. If you see her on other threads, you will see how she comes across.
I could be wrong, but I dont think so.

ZingWidge Sun 21-Jul-13 14:54:01

miss strawberry
OP is already a single mum, she said so on the other thread

yamsareyammy Sun 21-Jul-13 14:55:44

Hang on
Are my eyes deceiving me.
A post of JuliScurr's with a link, has completely disappeared.

GoshAnneGorilla Sun 21-Jul-13 14:56:22

Yams - I have indeed seen the other threads. I will not say much more. Just be careful people.

ZingWidge Sun 21-Jul-13 14:57:15

yamser

that is one of the things that leaves me cold about this.

you do not have a child in order to have someone to love you back!
for that you get a dog

ZingWidge Sun 21-Jul-13 14:58:51

juicy has been vaporized...that was quick

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 14:58:55

Or a cat if you are more so inclined grin

I have 2 kitties and they are my little angels grin x

YoureAllABunchOfBastards Sun 21-Jul-13 15:04:16

Are you Liz Jones?

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 15:07:08

Who is Liz Jones?

ZingWidge Sun 21-Jul-13 15:12:37

who the fuck is Liz Jones?
and just who the fuck is Alice?

and I still don't know who Sharon is.....sad

Luxlisbon82 Sun 21-Jul-13 15:13:03

An inflammatory, narcissistic journalist for the daily mail who writes about her uninteresting life and spends a lot of time saying 'poor me'. Her online articles incite a huge reaction and she is very skilled at rubbing people up the wrong way. Check out the daily mail app for her latest one and it might give you an idea of what yaabob means.

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 15:15:19

Oh I see grin

I will go and have a read....

Itstartshere Sun 21-Jul-13 15:18:56

'*Rape is a lot more than just rough sex. Had the OP said 'no' or pushed her FWB away, cried/cried out with pain, asked him to be gentle and been ignored/etc, THEN it would be rape.*'

SO glad to see that rape myths are alive and well, despite MN's excellent campaign. Plenty of rape victims do none of the sort and they have still been raped.

Luxlisbon82 Sun 21-Jul-13 15:19:16

She writes in the 'You' section of the free app. I'm ashamed that I know this and wouldn't admit to it in RL but it is terribly amusing and at the same time sad that someone gets continuously allowed to publicise such drivel.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 21-Jul-13 16:10:19

Hello

We like to think of Mumsnet as a place where our users can conduct robust debates about even difficult topics - so long as it's all done within our Guidelines.

As many of you will know, on threads like these we do ask people to take a look at our We Believe You page on rape myths.

We think that it's quite possible for some genuine posters to post rape myths out of ignorance and incomplete understanding - and we won't necessarily remove those posts.

We will, however, remove posts that we think are purely inflammatory in intention, or that we believe are deliberately re-stating rape myths despite other posters' efforts to inform.

We may also remove posts by previously banned trolls.

Thanks
MNHQ

Itstartshere Sun 21-Jul-13 16:12:10

Thank you Rowan

Secretswitch Sun 21-Jul-13 16:17:45

Dear Rowan, thank you very much. Difficult to understand how many posters seem to think compassion for rape survivors is reserved for only for people with approved life styles.

Secretswitch Sun 21-Jul-13 16:19:57

International, I hope you are doing better. You have the right to decide who and what enters your body.

Viviennemary Sun 21-Jul-13 16:27:22

If I understand the situation correctly, you are both using each other. But he sounds a horrible person and had no right to behave the way he did. So have no more to do with him ever and try to put this behind you. And think very carefully before entering another relationship. Get to know the person first and find out if he is kind and caring first before anything else happens.

ThoraNomiki Sun 21-Jul-13 16:38:08

I wasn't going to come back to this thread after all the feminist-bashing and rape myths started (call me weak but I'm having a crap time and don't need the agro).
I just wanted to point out that the first person to use the word 'rape' was JuicyFatSteak up until then people were using terms like 'forced himself on' and 'horrible sex'. I think people were treading carefully (including myself) as it really should be up to the person who experiences something to decide whether they felt raped or not. In this case the OP has since made it very clear that she did not feel raped.
I am happy to accept the OP's feeling on that subject for her own individual experience.
What pissed me off is other people wading in deciding to tell the OP that she was not raped, based on a few lines in the OP, before she had even come back to clarify for herself.
There are people who might experience a similar situation to the OP (and may read threads like these) who do feel that they were raped/sexually assaulted. They might be discouraged from seeking help after reading some of the replies on here.
I don't think that people have to keep saying yes every time position or act of sex is changed but that a partner should be making sure, in other ways that their sexual partner is happy and equally continuing to enjoy things. Bad sex is not rape. Aggressive sex without consent (ie, when a partner has not given clear signals that that is what they like) could be considered rape but only the recipient should have the right to decide that.

Being aware of rape myths and trying to dispel them is not man-bashing. I personally really like a lot of men. I have a few in my life that I love and one that I am very much in love with. I don't think it hinders decent men, in any way, to encourage them not to engage in rough sex with a woman without first finding out if it was something she might like.

Ps. (and I still think it's irrelevant to this particular thread) I would hate for one of the men in my life to be tricked into fathering a child against his will but any man who feels so strongly about not becoming a father should do his best to prevent it. International for your own sake and for that of your hopefully-as-yet un-conceived child and the one you already have, please consider other options for conceiving a child. Children born as a result of sperm donation may have the right to seek out their biological fathers in the future...

Secretswitch Sun 21-Jul-13 16:47:40

ThoraNomiki, thank you for your beautifully written post. Everything I wanted to express, only in a cogent eloquent way.

Itstartshere Sun 21-Jul-13 16:56:03

^That

internationallove985 Sun 21-Jul-13 18:25:47

Once again thank you to all of you who have given me support. It is much appriciated. Also thank you Rowan for pointing out about talk guidelines. x

edward49582 Sun 21-Jul-13 18:43:15

you do not have a child in order to have someone to love you back

Really? Because the ONLY reason we have decided we want a child is to have someone to love and to love us in return.

We aren't having a child so we can be proud of his achievements, or so others can admire his beauty, strength or wit. Obviously if he (or she) has those qualities that would be fantastic, but for the child, not for us.

Love is the only motivation for having a child that counts as far as I can see. And much as I love animals I feel to compare a baby to a dog or a cat is grossly insulting.

valiumredhead Sun 21-Jul-13 18:48:18

Yes why do you have a child then?

MissStrawberry Sun 21-Jul-13 19:01:30

You know something, because they are both using each other does not make this okay. There could be a baby coming through all this. An actual human being born through crap sex to a couple who barely seem to like each other never mind love and where one party doesn't appear to want a baby.

edward49582 Sun 21-Jul-13 19:04:56

An actual human being born through crap sex to a couple who barely seem to like each other never mind love and where one party doesn't appear to want a baby.

she's hardly unique in that.

I feel the OP would be better seeking out sperm donation either through a trusted friend or anonymously via a clinic but truth be told, the above applies to so many children born to so many couples - or singles, as the case may be. So what are we to do?

I feel what we shouldn't do, for starters, is start making lists of reasons why it's OK to have a child and lists why it isn't!

MissStrawberry Sun 21-Jul-13 19:09:40

I never said she was and it is just more depressing that she isn't unique. Doesn't make it right because many people are doing it.

ZingWidge Sun 21-Jul-13 20:01:08

edward

enjoy temper tantrums!

edward49582 Mon 22-Jul-13 08:28:52

Ah - do you have children? You stop loving them when they have temper tantrums?

Thought not.

chipmonkey Mon 22-Jul-13 12:04:11

international, you say you were tested last April and were found to be healthy? Was he tested?

fifi669 Mon 22-Jul-13 13:27:31

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Fifi-
I could no agree more

Secretswitch Mon 22-Jul-13 18:50:16

Hi International, just wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you. I hope you are getting on alright. Please take care of yourself.

RaRaZ Tue 23-Jul-13 13:18:04

With regard to consent - no venom here and I have read the We Believe You page - how is a man with whom a woman is not in a relationship and with whom he has little or no emotional connection supposed to no that she has withdrawn her consent to sexual activity if she makes no attempt through either speech or body language to let him know? Cases where she is too scare to are clearly different, but if there is no such issue and the woman does not tell the man...how is he supposed to know???

fifi669 Tue 23-Jul-13 13:48:02

I quite agree raraz, the OP herself has said she wasn't raped, some people seem to be trying to convince her she has when at no point were there any indications she didn't consent. Feeling used after the event is unfortunate but quite likely considering their arrangement.

chipmonkey Tue 23-Jul-13 13:56:20

It sounds excessively rough though.

internationallove985 Wed 24-Jul-13 17:34:46

Hi Secretswitch. I'm fine now, thanks and thank you for asking it's very kind of you. xx

tabycat Wed 24-Jul-13 18:11:09

this thread is ridiculous and an insult to women who have been raped!

internationallove985 Wed 24-Jul-13 18:30:48

Where did I say I was raped Tabby cat. I was left feeling used after a sexual encounter nowhere did I use the words I was raped. x

KeepTheFaithBaby Wed 24-Jul-13 18:34:52

To be fair, that's true. I may not agree with international's approach to TTC but she never said she was raped. In fact when asked, she gave more detail and said she didn't feel she was raped.

chipmonkey Wed 24-Jul-13 18:38:14

international, I'm glad you're feeling better and you never did say you were raped. I still don't think that what he did was right though.

tabycat Wed 24-Jul-13 19:01:36

I never said that you did...to clarify I said this thread is ridiculous and an insult to women who have been raped!

Secretswitch Wed 24-Jul-13 19:19:40

Hi International, glad you are getting on. This is your thread and you have every right to post what you wish. Apparently thos at MNHQ agree that this thread is valid as they have commented on those poster's making vile comments to you. I wish you then best of luck.

internationallove985 Wed 24-Jul-13 19:28:42

Thankyou Secretswitch.
I would also like to thank the poster who brought those somewhat unsavory posts to MNHQ's attention. x

Oh FFS

internationallove985 Wed 24-Jul-13 19:55:33

Your meaning and point by that comment. Makeitupasyougoalong. xx

It's bloody boakworthy the attention seeking.
But you carry on your shenanigans I'm sure you will keep us informed I just really don't want to see the time come when you really need help, support and guidance

GherkinsAreAce Wed 24-Jul-13 20:07:16

Op this guy sounds aggressive and unkind at the very least. Please forget about getting pg with him.

Sperm donation would be so much better for you. If it being somewhat 'clinical' is putting you off I would suggest you think about it again.

internationallove985 Wed 24-Jul-13 20:10:15

How rude are you makeitupayougoalong but like I say I wont rise to it.
Also I don't ask you to read and comment on my thread do I. xx

No but seriously you need help abd support in RL for this because you seem to want to keep this all going until you get a 100% response that what your doing is right. Your not going to get that.
I don't actually mean to be rude, I'm being honest. I'm not a nasty person but I just need to be honest.
This is a child we are talking about and a man who has been somewhat violent to you.

Answer me this honestly: You've spoken to him again haven't you?

internationallove985 Wed 24-Jul-13 20:19:10

I'm not looking for approval I know most people would say my situation is not ideal. Also I didn't say he was violent to me either.

I've not spoken to him aside from last Fri but we've text each other. He's away for another 2 weeks.

Writerwannabe83 Wed 24-Jul-13 20:22:47

Who has he gone away with??

International, you know what I want to say!! put the phone down!!!!

Secretswitch Wed 24-Jul-13 20:27:31

International, this is your thread. Please continue to post as long as you feel necessary. Nobody is allowed to legislate your feelings about what happened to you. It would seem to me, if other person's are that upset by what you write, they would hide the thread.

Writerwannabe83 Wed 24-Jul-13 20:32:42

We aren't upset, we are frustrated that she can't see how potentially destructive her situation is. She seems vulnerable and seems to be happy to accept whatever this FWB does to her due to her desperation for a child. It just sounds worrying.

Secretswitch Wed 24-Jul-13 20:40:21

I can see how her choices are outside of the norm. I just hate seeing anyone bullied for lifestyle choices out of the mainstream.
I may not agree with what she is doing, but I bow to her decisions as an adult woman.
The sexual incident is troubling to me, as I suspect it may be for some of us with a history of abuse. Any time a sex partner is made to feel uncomfortable or hurt to the point of bleeding is an assault to me.
Anyway, International knows I support her. I am open to pm's if that makes things more comfortable for her.

Exactly writer!

Writerwannabe83 Wed 24-Jul-13 20:44:42

To be fair, sometimes I bleed after rough sex with my husband, doesn't make it assault though.

Only International knows what happened and whether she was assaulted - she says she wasn't so all we can do is accept that.

Dackyduddles Wed 24-Jul-13 20:51:35

Op, I'm going to ask a few questions. Don't feel you need to answer here. Just do so internally.

Have you, would you consider counselling via GP?

Have you been abused as a child?

Have you been abused as a teen or adult?

Do you read your op back to yourself after a few days? Do you see what others see or see and ignore?

For me it doesn't sound like rape just that he has no respect for you. He did what he wanted and left, no thought. Tbh it might have been more above board if he left money. Doesn't that sound weird to read/write?!?! Look, you are plainly intelligent but for some reason wish to be dominated, intimidated and degraded. That is what happened isn't it?

A baby will not fill your void. It will create new voids. You need to request counselling. Might not be many sessions. This presently does not do you justice International. And you deserve so much more.

Wishing you strength.

Secretswitch Wed 24-Jul-13 20:51:50

What she said was her lover pushed her down on the bed and entered her. She said in her OP she felt uncomfortable and bled. You can sugar coat it all you wish, but this man entered her body without her consent.
I will not debate with you. MNHQ has made their views on the subject clear as well.
This is an adult woman. She is not in need of your guidance.

Writerwannabe83 Wed 24-Jul-13 21:03:07

Isn't that why we all post on here? For guidance?

Like I said, only she knows what went on in that bedroom and she says she wasn't raped or assaulted and she is willing to see him again when her gets back from wherever he is.

I know I wouldn't want to see a guy who did that to me if it was rape/assault.

My worry was that if he was only a FWB she would probably tell him to bugger off after having treated her like that (rightly so) but I fear she won't, purely because she wants a baby.

That's what is worrying - what is she willing to put up with and accept as 'ok behaviour' just so she can get her desired baby?

runningforthebusinheels Wed 24-Jul-13 21:21:37

OP, I'm sorry for what he did to you. No matter what you want to call it, he did abuse you, and you didn't deserve it. xx

Writer- I feel we seem to be getting sounded out almost. The views we have for the long term future seem to be being put on the back burner and the concerns for the op we have ignored due to the recent event and the word rape continually being put in internationals mouth. International I know you never said that.
We are just concerned for you and any child that might arise from this situation

fifi669 Wed 24-Jul-13 21:38:14

She wasn't raped or assaulted, why is everyone trying to dramatise it? He's a f*ck buddy. He came over for a f*ck. she's nothing to him so he didn't bother making time to see if she was suitably aroused, he got what he wanted. She did not at any time say or signal that she didn't consent. The guy may not be an angel but give him a break, he's not psychic. OP says she wasn't assaulted and that he's not violent. You say she's a grown woman so her backhanded way of getting pregnant is up to her. In that case allow her to at least state it wasn't rape and accept it.

The whole thing is messed up, but lets not throw around serious accusations when women out there have really suffered.

Writerwannabe83 Wed 24-Jul-13 21:43:05

I may be shot down for this but I can't help but worry International relishes the attention and drama.

This thread had hushed down, disappeared down the ranks and then suddenly she appears and it starts up again - and then she has disappeared once she has got everyone talking/arguing about her and her situation again - much like how she has been on some other threads.

She says herself that she wasn't raped and reading between the lines of what she says happened, I accept that.

It doesn't matter what any of us on here say, she will continue to let herself be used, maybe roughly, because she is so desperate for baby. Very sad, but true.

runningforthebusinheels Wed 24-Jul-13 21:44:10

"he's not psychic" is an appallingly bad excuse for what he did to her. He made her bleed. She is upset. She didn't want it or consent. The fact that he is her fuck buddy and came over for a sex does not equal consent for hurting her.

Thank you, MN btw, for making the guidelines for WBY clear. It is obviously still needed.

Zynzong Wed 24-Jul-13 21:47:19

he sounds horrible. you poor thing.

Writerwannabe83 Wed 24-Jul-13 21:48:11

So was he supposed to say to her, "Can I penetrate you?"

My husband pushes me down on the bed all the time in the heights of passion and enters me. I do it to him too, push him back and mount him - I drag him around and can be quite forceful at times too, does that mean I assault him because I don't stop and ask for his consent every time I want to do something or change position?

The way I see it is if we are engaging in sexual activity then unless one of us says stop we just get on with it....

Writerwannabe83 Wed 24-Jul-13 21:49:50

Zynzong - he does sound horrible!!! But she will carry on having sex with him regardless purely in the hope of getting pregnant. I can't see it doing much for her self worth and self esteem, or safety, but as everyone keeps saying, she is a grown woman and can make her own choices.

Secretswitch Wed 24-Jul-13 21:50:17

Exactly runningforbusiness. The "asking for it" attitude by some poster's is shocking. Perhaps it is time for MNHQ to take a peek at the comments popping up again.

internationallove985 Wed 24-Jul-13 21:51:13

Writerwannabe. I'll have to go easy on you due to you being pregnant. Not sure if I've said but congratulations. I'm very pleased for you.
However this is my thread and I am entitled to post on it when/if I so choose to. Do I dictate to you when you can comment on your own thread, no. x
Also I came back on here to thank people for their support and indeed thank you to everyone else who has since been supportive. x

runningforthebusinheels Wed 24-Jul-13 21:51:55

I would hope that your husband knows that you are ready for that. If not, then...

A man is not allowed, legally or morally, to push a woman into penetration before she's ready, regardless of the situation. The fact that what she is doing is very dubious (and I wouldn't do it or agree with it) is neither here nor there. A woman wanting to get pregnant is not carte blanche for a man to enter her in that way. I'm shocked that people think it's ok or justified in any way.

She feel used. She has been used and abused. Full stop.

Writerwannabe83 Wed 24-Jul-13 21:53:05

We are jut worried that you are putting yourself in danger - that's all.

Writerwannabe83 Wed 24-Jul-13 21:54:30

Why is everyone ignoring International when she says she wasn't raped or assaulted???

ps) they are using each other.

runningforthebusinheels Wed 24-Jul-13 21:56:46

Because she didn't consent to it. She is hurt and confused. She may not want to name it, but she was abused. And she has my sympathy for that, not condemnation.

Writerwannabe83 Wed 24-Jul-13 22:00:34

I'm going to ask a question - and I ask this genuinely because I don't understand smile I can't work out if I'm just confused or stupid smile

They were engaging in sexual activity and he entered her - she expected oral sex in return but didn't get it and instead he penetrated her.

In what way was she supposed to give consent?
I don't understand, what was he supposed to have asked her and when?
And at point did she say no to him?

If someone can clearly explain it to me I would really appreciate it, lol.

Writerwannabe83 Wed 24-Jul-13 22:03:38

Nobody is condemning her at all - people are worried about her!!!

runningforthebusinheels Wed 24-Jul-13 22:08:05

Well, I think he's not supposed to force himself upon her. If you picture the scene - she's just given him a blow job - so what - he can just roughly enter her? No.

Consent is not a grey area. A woman doesn't have to say "No" for it not to be consensual - a man has to ensure she's consenting, enthusiastically consenting. (Unless you're in the realms of bdsm and 'safe words' I suppose). And that means not shoving her down on the bed and entering her, hurting her, and making her bleed, straight after a blow job, when she's not ready. It doesn't mean she has to sign a contract of consent between each sexual activity ffs, it's just a matter of communication between 2 adults.

This should be fairly high up on the sex-ed agenda for yr 6's, imo.

Secretswitch Wed 24-Jul-13 22:19:12

The OP did state anywhere in this thread she wanted guidance, assistance or approval of her lifestyle choices. She posted a thread about a sexual incident that hurt and upset her. Bit disingenuous to speak of concern, eh?

Cupcake11 Wed 24-Jul-13 22:19:48

Writer - just so you know you're not going mad, I can't understand it either. If they weren't already in a regular, consensual sexual relationship I would expect him to ask permission but every single time seems a bit strange for me. Not referring to this case in particular but in general.
I would also imagine feeling used by someone who is openly only using you for sex is inevitable but not nice all the same. I really hope you manage to find a way of getting your baby without hurting anyone, including yourself International.

Writerwannabe83 Wed 24-Jul-13 22:19:53

Well, seeing as many people on here have decided this man is a rapist based on the description International has given, maybe she needs your guidance to see how wrong she is when she says she wasn't raped or assaulted.

Maybe deep down in her heart she knows that what he did was wrong, but our worry is that she will let him continue to treat her like that anyway just because she is so desperate to have a baby.

That is why people are worried and why we are frustrated that she can't see what a potentially dangerous situation she is putting herself in.

If she was raped/assaulted, which only she knows - I don't see how any desire to have a baby can outweigh the seriousness of what he did. But obviously, OP doesn't see it as serious enough to warrant not seeing him again. As someone else has said, maybe she has feelings for him that she didn't plan on - which makes the whole thing even scarier. If he knows she has feelings for him I'm sure he will use and abuse that to his advantage.

This isn't going to have a happy ending I fear - and we all just hope that OP doesn't get seriously hurt in the process of baby making.

runningforthebusinheels Wed 24-Jul-13 22:27:57

I think, not to put too much of a fine point on it, if she's arching her pelvis towards yours, and shouting yes! you can assume she's consenting. If she's sighing in ecstasy, you can assume she's consenting. If she's looking at you with a confused or an angry face, she's not consenting. You need further verification... not a signed contract or anything, just an 'are you ok with this?' will do. Especially with new lovers/fuck buddies. Obviously married old timers (like myself) work out our own script over time.

Writerwannabe83 Wed 24-Jul-13 22:37:32

just an 'are you ok with this will do?

You are completely right, but for men to ask this they would have to care about the person they are having sex with and they'd have to care what the woman's answer would be - and therein lies the problem with having a fuck buddy sad

Fuck buddies do not normally have en emotional connection I guess. It is usually just meet up, have sex, go home - the end. Every Wednesday and Friday as is the OP's arrangement with this guy.

He clearly doesn't care about her and her feelings and she needs to realise that and end things with him.

I don't think she will though unfortunately sad

runningforthebusinheels Wed 24-Jul-13 22:39:47

I think therein lies the problem - if some men are going around thinking - it's just a fuck buddy, I don't need to worry about her then those men seriously need to think about their actions.

runningforthebusinheels Wed 24-Jul-13 22:41:23

Because, you know, it is sexual assault - in both legal and moral terms.

And those particular men need to know that.

runningforthebusinheels Wed 24-Jul-13 22:47:18

Men absolutely do not have to care about the woman they are sex with to ensure they are sexually assaulting her.

They absolutely have a duty of care to ensure that even a ONS or casual acquaintance is consenting to what they do. Otherwise it's sexual assault. Plain and simple.

runningforthebusinheels Wed 24-Jul-13 22:47:57

*not sexually assaulting her blush

Secretswitch Wed 24-Jul-13 22:48:40

I know it will be difficult for some poster's to comprehend, but sex worker's have the right to say no to sex. Even after the dude has paid gasp Any woman, regardless of her sexual status gets to decide if/when she is penetrated.
The OP is not asking for your help, advice or ...worry...She posted about an upsetting sexual incident. The end.

Writerwannabe83 Wed 24-Jul-13 22:49:43

I don't need to worry about her then those men seriously need to think about their actions

But on equal measure, the women need to know they deserve better and stop letting themselves be used.

There is a saying (that I can't remember word for word) but it basically says people will treat you in the way that you let them treat you.

If OP knows deep down she was raped/assaulted and does not stand up to him, end it, and/or take legal action, then what message is she giving him? She is saying that it is ok for him to treat her like that - which obviously it isn't.

However, they have a mutual agreement about their 'arrangement' and OP has said she told him how she felt and he apologised. Hopefully, it was a one off error made in the heat of the moment that he will never repeat - but possibly not.

Like I said, I just hope she doesn't end up getting hurt.

runningforthebusinheels Wed 24-Jul-13 22:53:28

Don't blame the op for what was done to her, writer. She did not deserve that.

fifi669 Wed 24-Jul-13 22:56:24

It's not! Stop dramatising! They were engaging in sexual activity, she expected a bit of attention back but he skipped that and went to sex. She felt used because of this. That's all. OP is not scared of him. She did not say or suggest in any way that the activity was going in a way she didn't want. It's not normal to ask for permission between sexual activities, it's natural to progress. I know what sexual assault/rape is, I've read MNHQ WBY. This isn't relevant.

It was a mutually beneficial arrangement, with obvious lack of communication. It's car crash stuff, but it's her business.

OP says.... And I'll point this out again. She was not raped or sexually assaulted. She is not scared if him, he's not violent.

runningforthebusinheels Wed 24-Jul-13 23:00:33

Fifi - the op quite plainly states that something happened to her that she did not want. Stop making excuses - there are no excuses. Even if he wanted his sperm (and I don't for a minute condone that) it does not excuse his actions. She didn't want it. It was non-consensual.

Writerwannabe83 Wed 24-Jul-13 23:01:14

I'm NOT blaming the Op at all - I can't believe you think I am!!

This is the first time it has happened and what I'm saying is that if she hadn't take action then he would have thought it was ok to treat her like that - which it isn't. I said she has confronted him (which is a good thing) and that I hope that it never happens again.

Where on earth did I say she deserved it??

runningforthebusinheels Wed 24-Jul-13 23:01:25

Oh, and rapists don't have to be violent for it to be rape you know hmm

Secretswitch Wed 24-Jul-13 23:04:00

International, I wish you the best of luck. Please pm me if I can be supportive in any way. For personal reasons I must hide this thread. The rape apologist on here vile. Love and hugs..

Writerwannabe83 Wed 24-Jul-13 23:07:35

What she wanted was oral sex first but it didn't happen.
But she obviously wanted sex with him because she is trying to conceive his baby - that is the entire point of their 'relationship'.

They meet up for sex - nothing else.
Of course the guy is going to think it's on the cards. Just to clarify; in no way am I saying a woman is asking for it if she is in a FWB set-up, but I'm just trying to see it from an outsider, as how the guy may have seen their encounter.

If the poster was raped/assaulted (and only she knows that) then obviously that is awful - but I feel uncomfortable that everyone is labelling this guy as a rapist because of a one sided story we have heard, when even the OP hasn't labelled him as one.

If the OP says she wasn't raped, or assaulted, isn't scared of him and is happy to see him and have sex with him again then why are people refusing to believe her?

runningforthebusinheels Wed 24-Jul-13 23:11:43

Because what he did was wrong, writer. Its as simple as that. No reason in the world can make what he did ok.

littlemisssarcastic Wed 24-Jul-13 23:12:25

This whole thread has made my blood run cold.

The complete selfishness of one individual, to get what she wants at any cost, and let's face it, the cost will be to the child if OP conceives.

OP, I don't think you have thought about the child that may be born out of this at all. This is all about you, what you want, how you want to go about it and what you will do to get what you want.

My mind sees a child who is not loved by one of their parents, because you chose to conceive with someone who you know is a selfish man who is only interested in his own needs.

When you are having these ONS's and putting yourself at risk time and time again, where is your other child?
Certainly not in your thoughts when you are risking your health and even your life over and over and over again in your desperate quest to have another child. Will you stop putting your health at risk then?

I wish women such as you would stop for one minute and think, really think about the risks you are taking. Your child may actually want to know their father, they may actually want a relationship with their father, yet you have robbed them of that opportunity before they were even conceived. Your child will probably want to grow up with a mother who loves them, not a mother who has contracted debilitating diseases or worse still dies due to not protecting herself.

If you have the money to support a child, why on gods green earth wouldn't you just use a bloody sperm donor? To protect your health?

Your DC are highly likely to only have one parent from the word go anyway, yet you are putting your life at risk to fulfil a need that can be fulfilled in a much safer way. It makes no sense.

Selfish and irresponsible, the pair of you.

fifi669 Wed 24-Jul-13 23:26:19

She herself says im not trying to call rape, that was not the case at all... But a little consideration would not have gone a miss

Jesus if every time a man wasn't considerate of a woman's feelings he was banged up....

I'm not a rape apologist. He hasn't raped anyone. He's a selfish lover, that's it.

Must now go upstairs and prepare consent firms in triplicate before I dtd.

All men aren't evil you know. Because they're encounter didn't go the way she planned doesn't make her a victim. Consent was implied when she went down on him and didn't revoke it at any point with words or actions. Simple.

runningforthebusinheels Wed 24-Jul-13 23:32:04

Who said all men are evil? Nobody. Just this man's actions were bad and wrong. Why protect him? This one man did something that hurt the op. She's said so. It hurt her physically and made her bleed. she cried for hours she said. Why would you stick for a man that does this?

Writerwannabe83 Wed 24-Jul-13 23:32:57

I agree with both posts!

Anyways - I'm off to bed. Goodnight all smile

runningforthebusinheels Wed 24-Jul-13 23:42:37

Nobody, but nobody, has the right to put to put it in you without your consent. Whether you've just given them a blow job, whether you're fwb's, whether you're wearing a short skirt, whether they're the heir to the throne. Nobody. Know that.

DoctorAnge Thu 25-Jul-13 07:33:54

OP I hope you are OK.

Some of the posts on here are disgusting. The implication seems to be that because the OP has questionable morals she should just have to deal with being roughly penetrated when she isn't ready shock.
Of course not all men are evil! Most men wouldn't shove their penis into a woman who wasn't sufficiently ready and make her bleed and hurt her.
What planet are those of you from who condone this and what kind of guys are you used to?!

fifi669 Thu 25-Jul-13 07:55:03

She felt physically uncomfortable, that's different to hurt her. She felt used because he didn't go down on her, left quickly after, had little consideration for her, thats why she cried. Though they were meant to be FWB she may be hoping for more. It's all above. The OP has said it herself.

I agree it's not the nicest sexual experience. But that doesn't make it rape.

I spoke to my DP about this. He thinks people here seem to be living in wonderland with little concept of reality.

Speak to your DP's. let them read this. See what they think.

Writerwannabe83 Thu 25-Jul-13 08:15:33

Quote from Original Poster:

"I'm in no way trying to cry rape as that was not the case at all, not once did I struggle or say no, but a little consideration would not have gone a miss."

How is this rape??

If I was the OP I'd be banging my head against the wall. She must be frustrated that everyone is putting the words 'rapist' in her mouth, I know I would be.

Two things have either happened:

The OP has wrote down her account of what happened and it reads much worse than it actually was. This could explain why OP (who was actually there) knows and says it wasn't rape, but why people who read her post still believe differently.

Or : she was raped/assaulted but either genuinely doesn't realise it or she wants to pretend she wasn't.

Only she knows that and our speculations won't change anything.

runningforthebusinheels Thu 25-Jul-13 09:06:12

For crying out loud. You don't need to struggle and say no to make it rape. The man has to ensure consent. Check the law.

DoctorAnge Thu 25-Jul-13 09:20:33

Fifi what the fuck has your DP got to do with this? confused

fifi669 Thu 25-Jul-13 09:30:13

The same as any of us do! I asked his opinion. He thinks you're all nuts!

The FWB did get consent and it was never withdrawn. The don't have to say no or struggle etc thing is for people incapable of consent eg off their faces drunk.

If women don't have to communicate they don't want something to happen, all men are rapists.

Start sexy time with your DPs.... Don't tell him or show him you aren't consenting. Then tell him he raped you. Then see how ridiculous you're being.

MrsHoarder Thu 25-Jul-13 09:49:52

fifi: for starters the OP said she wasn't raped.

However not saying no isn't the same as giving a yes. Consent is a positive thing: and it can be in the form of enthusiastic response or spoken, and if these don't happen then yes there is a risk that a person could unthinkingly rape their partner.

Of course if your DP doesn't know the difference between something you want to continue and something you don't, I would like to suggest you are doing it wrong. Your DP should rather notice if you aren't enthusiastically "consenting".

runningforthebusinheels Thu 25-Jul-13 09:50:48

Fifi, you tell your dp from me that if he starts sexy time with a woman, then suddenly pushes her down on the bed, and proceeds with a sexual act that hurts her, makes her bleed and leaves her sobbing for hours, he may very well end up on a charge of sexual assault.

runningforthebusinheels Thu 25-Jul-13 09:55:00

The don't have to say no or struggle etc thing is for people incapable of consent eg off their faces drunk.

It's not.

Champagnebubble Thu 25-Jul-13 10:12:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

chipmonkey Thu 25-Jul-13 11:34:49

fifi, so we need to get a bunch of men to get a "correct opinion". Because we wimmin can't do that on our own.hmm

Champagnebubble Thu 25-Jul-13 12:12:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KateSMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 25-Jul-13 12:30:25

fifi669

It's not! Stop dramatising! They were engaging in sexual activity, she expected a bit of attention back but he skipped that and went to sex. She felt used because of this. That's all. OP is not scared of him. She did not say or suggest in any way that the activity was going in a way she didn't want. It's not normal to ask for permission between sexual activities, it's natural to progress. I know what sexual assault/rape is, I've read MNHQ WBY. This isn't relevant.

It was a mutually beneficial arrangement, with obvious lack of communication. It's car crash stuff, but it's her business.

OP says.... And I'll point this out again. She was not raped or sexually assaulted. She is not scared if him, he's not violent.

We're glad to see you read WBY, fifi669.

We'd just like to point out that your points about initial consent, violence and being scared are, we think, very relevant. Please have another look at our rape myths busted page

fifi669 Thu 25-Jul-13 13:19:43

Reread and my thoughts are the same. It states that she can withdraw her consent anytime. Which she didn't. End of. OP says she wasn't raped/assaulted/abused.

OhBuggerMe Thu 25-Jul-13 13:36:48

fifi it seems a bit MN vs You atm. I have read this thread and lost my rag with the op so hid it. Its mysteriously become unhidden so I'm back.

This debate has got well out of hand. Some posters are talking about rape / sexual assault in general. fifi is talking specifically about the op who has stated, more than once that she wasn't raped / assaulted etc.

The op has posted on another thread and has caused concern by other mners due to her vulnerability and suspected sn. No one is in doubt that this isca young woman who has made some bad choices and now needs support not a bun fight.

RaRaZ Thu 25-Jul-13 13:57:29

Fair point OBM . However, I totally see where Fifi is coming from, and I too cannot see the relevance of the WBY page in this case. It also seems that a huge onus is being put on the man here when we are discussing an act with two parties. Surely the woman has some responsibility too? Like to say if she doesn't like something?

runningforthebusinheels Thu 25-Jul-13 14:04:44

fifi, you are very mistaken about the nature of consent and the law. A person can indeed withdraw their consent at any time during sex. You may think that her not struggling or saying no means she wasn't assaulted. You may think that because the op thinks she wasn't assaulted means she wasn't assaulted. But you're wrong - many women are in denial about rape and sexual assault for years.

However, the relevant point here is that the man must reasonably believe the woman is consenting before and throughout sex. If a man is getting a blow job, and as I said before, suddenly throws you down on the bed and performs a sex act on you that leaves you hurt, bleeding and sobbing for hours - then it is assault.

OP - I sincerely hope that you never see this man again.

FoxMulder Thu 25-Jul-13 14:10:31

It seems to me that you consent with your body language. And if you don't know your partner well enough to read their body language, then you ask.

DoctorAnge Thu 25-Jul-13 18:03:23

Here here fox

valiumredhead Thu 25-Jul-13 18:16:56

Fifi,I spoke to my Dh and he's thinks any bloke who makes a woman bleed through rough sex when he doesn't know her well enough to know if she'll enjoy it is on very dangerous ground. And he also questions the motives of anyone who would enjoy it when the woman is clearly not enjoying it.

fifi669 Thu 25-Jul-13 18:45:48

He said she cried afterwards not because of the sex, but because of feeling used. That he didn't show consideration by not performing oral and leaving straight away. The two things are very different.

I'm not vs MN there's many that agree with me if you read through. The OP herself being one!

By the sounds of what she said he prob didn't have much time to appreciate whether she was enjoying it as much as him, as just before he came they had sex.

They've been sexual partners for a couple of months and we have no idea what kind of stuff they get up to. I can only suggest the lack of foreplay was the reason for the uncomfortableness/bleeding.

I in no way think rape or any kind of sexual assault is ok. When a woman says no she means no, if she pushes a man away, turns away etc at any point, she has withdrawn her consent and that's that. That isn't what occurred here.

OP has spoke to him since, he didn't realise he'd made her feel bad and they plan to meet when he's back off his holiday. He could be the biggest weirdo in the world, but from what OP has said he's just a selfish liver, not a rapist.

fifi669 Thu 25-Jul-13 18:46:36

Lover.... Stupid phone.

Writerwannabe83 Thu 25-Jul-13 21:23:10

What signs did she give him then that she had 'withdrawn her consent' ??

Writerwannabe83 Thu 25-Jul-13 21:25:30

What signs did she give then that you think he decided to ignore?

tabycat Thu 25-Jul-13 21:36:53

I completely agree with you fifi.
I can't believe someone actually suggested a man is to verbally check during sex that the woman is still consenting! confused

And no-one has to explain to me the law on rape, sexual assault or consent as I work in criminal law queue bitchy comments about what a crap lawyer i am.

tabycat Thu 25-Jul-13 21:38:49

isn't op just mad he didn't go down on her?

valiumredhead Thu 25-Jul-13 21:39:46

Queue?grin

Writerwannabe83 Thu 25-Jul-13 21:40:41

I think you have summed that up pretty well tabycat

ps) Great name - my 2 cats are tabbys and I love them to pieces grin

tabycat Thu 25-Jul-13 21:46:05

can I blame autocorrect grin.business card anyone??

valiumredhead Thu 25-Jul-13 21:48:19

Actually,a quick 'is this ok?' never goes amiss if you chipping know the person.

valiumredhead Thu 25-Jul-13 21:48:47

Don't not chippingconfused grin

runningforthebusinheels Thu 25-Jul-13 21:55:01

Withdrawal of consent is irrelevant here. As I've already said, in law, the onus is on the man to ensure consent has been given. To ensure that the woman is enthusiastically consenting.

She was giving him a blowjob, and he then pushed her down on the bed and dtd as she says - she wasn't ready, it hurt her, made her bleed, made her sob. The fact that she wasn't ready for sex straight after the blowjob is the clue that she didn't consent. She didn't want to do it = she was not a consenting partner.

Just because a woman seems up for sex, is naked on the bed and is giving a man blowjob doesn't give him carte blanche to do what the hell he likes to her. "your honour, she was giving me a blowjob, so I thought that meant I could fuck her till she bleeds" would not stand up in a court of law.

He assaulted her - she is obviously minimising this fact for her own reasons, and that's fine - that's her prerogative. But legally and morally what he did was a sexual assault.

fifi669 Thu 25-Jul-13 21:57:29

I thought chipping was you politely swearing grin

I love tabby cats too, but DP is allergic the selfish bugger.

Yeah taby the reason she was upset was her FWB wasn't more considerate to her sexual needs. In fact it seems like he bypassed the F in FWB. It's all blown up now and people are telling OP (which she disagrees with) that she was sexually assaulted in some way and I've been called a rape apologist!

This is a crazy ass thread. I really shouldn't comment anymore as I'm trying to keep my womb calm for potential implantation wink

Writerwannabe83 Thu 25-Jul-13 22:05:46

lol fiif

runningforthebus

So you are saying that the guy knew she wasn't ready for sex but did it anyway? How did he know she wasn't ready? Do you think he should have asked her if they could start having sex? And if OP didn't say no, didn't pull away, or ask him to stop etc, how was he supposed to know she didn't want it?

Also - I haven't seen the OP ever say she didn't want it??
Yet more words, alongside with her being raped, that is being put in her mouth... no oral sex pun intended

tabycat Thu 25-Jul-13 22:11:54

grin me too fifi I need calm thoughts for implantation too, and I'm not getting them from reading the biggest pile of poo ever written!
running he really really didn't sexually assault her but I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
Why the fuck is this thread in conception anyway when it's just about selfish sex....

Writerwannabe83 Thu 25-Jul-13 22:15:37

Because there isn't a Selfish Sex Chat Area??? grin

maybe there should be.....

tabycat Thu 25-Jul-13 22:17:05

yes writer after she willingly sucked him off he was them supposed to ask, just in case he wasn't sure she was up for it, "can we have sex now"? hmm. I will eat my tabbycat if anyone actually has sex like that.

Right now I'm really going.

runningforthebusinheels Thu 25-Jul-13 22:21:17

Do you think he should have asked her if they could start having sex?

Yes I do. He doesn't have to get a consent form signed in triplicate <sigh> hmm but the onus is on him to ensure she's up for it. If her body language is indicating that she's enthusiastic about it, then that can be taken as consent (as a pp has already said).

But, from what op has written, she quite clearly was not up for it at the point that he entered her. This resulted in her being hurt and bleeding, feeling used and sobbing.

I would guess that her body language indicated that what he was doing was uncomfortable too unless she's an experienced porn actress which should be a decent man's clue to maybe check with a simple "are you ok with this?"

Valium, I agree with your dh. My dh would say the same.

runningforthebusinheels Thu 25-Jul-13 22:25:43

And sorry to disagree, taby, but it was sexual assault because the op didn't want it to happen. She may not want to name it, but then nor do a number of women.

Consent for one sexual act (blow job) absolutely does not mean consent for any sex act (being shoved down on the bed and fucked).

fifi669 Thu 25-Jul-13 22:28:26

taby come join us on this thread JSing you sound normal grin

tabycat Thu 25-Jul-13 22:42:25

Ffs running I want to go to bed! You are talking rubbish. Are you a lawyer? wink

Thanks for the link fifi. Will look it up when I'm next on. Good luck with the implantation!

runningforthebusinheels Thu 25-Jul-13 22:46:05

Well, it is the law, tabycat. People aren't allowed to push you down and perform a sex act on you that you aren't ready for.

Maybe check out the rape crisis link that JuliaScurr linked to earlier?

That should explain it for you.

RaRaZ Fri 26-Jul-13 07:38:20

How do you know that the OP didn't appear to be consenting? You have no idea what she was doing with her face at the time or whether she was panting or anything else that various people have suggested, but she's said herself that she didn't suggest in any way that he should stop.

Plenty of people bleed during sex. It doesn't mean he did anything wrong. She might have cervical erosion or be on a period or about to start one, for a start. Also, from what the OP said, she bled after - so he probably didn't know anything about it.

Writerwannabe83 Fri 26-Jul-13 08:02:09

Of course she wanted sex with him!!!!!

Where on earth has she said she didn't want it??

The ONLY reason she sees him is to have sex with him!
She is trying to conceive his baby behind his back and so of course she wanted sex with him - I'm sure she knows there is only one way to make a baby!!

Nothing she has said indicates she didn't want to have sex - all she has said is that he didn't give her oral sex like she had wanted in return for what she did to him and that the DTD action was quicker/sooner than what she expected..

SHE was the person there running and she says it was NOT rape or assault and has said in many different ways on various posts of hers so why is everyone telling her she was raped????

He pushed her back on the bed and entered her.... - I can quite confidently say that my Hubby has done that to me as have other partners, that does not mean I was raped. I have also pushed my husband back on the bed and mounted him - does this mean I'm a rapist too because I didn't ask his permission to do it first???

Blimey!!

I have also bled after rough sex too - again, that doesn't mean I was raped.

I'm very concerned about the people on here who seem to enjoy labelling this man as a rapist and are trying to convince the OP that she was raped, when even she knows she wasn't. I don't understand?

fifi669 Fri 26-Jul-13 08:59:51

writer you're bang on.

OhBuggerMe Fri 26-Jul-13 10:21:25

Is this yet another thread where the op has dropped a bomb then left mners to pick up the pieces?? Yup thought so.

Writerwannabe83 Fri 26-Jul-13 16:27:42

I can't wait to see what her next one is grin

fifi669 Fri 26-Jul-13 17:33:48

OP is on July bus waiting for BFP grin

Alibabaandthe40nappies Fri 26-Jul-13 17:39:04

As in, she is hoping she got pregnant from the sex she is complaining about?

Fucked up.

<